Yesterday, Star Citizen held a $275 dinner available only to users who had spent $1000+ where they announced a new $675 ship

[Deleted member 4886]

Anyone who defends this game, and it's development of asking for more money shouldn't ever have the right to complain about any companies micro-transactions, ever in their lives.

Over 100million, and all you got is an alpha to show for it, how can that not sink in? They have no roadmap, it's more of an idea sheet, and development has no feature lock. Which means, it'll never get finished, they'll keep asking for more money, because we know games need those Billion dollar budgets to be finished. And while the game if ever comes out, they'll be living in luxury off the insane amount of cash they piled in.

How is this shit not illegal lol?

 

[massoluk]

I don't think it's a scam, but the finished product is gonna be one hell of a case study on how to build an online game with a caste system.

 

[Darkstorne]

I bet you could probably get a few of the guys in the early access of dreams to build something better than the current build of SC you can play and they would do it within a month.

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0.o

This is why I wonder if the majority of negative comments about the game itself are from people who haven't really looked at the development progress. Criticism of the funding system are completely warranted, but criticising that a game as insanely ambitious as this is taking a long time? Weird. Criticism that there isn't much of a game at all? Just ignorant. Unless you also fall into the No Man's Sky "but what do you actually do?" camp I suppose. But that's also not a good look.

 

[Captain_Raoul]

Absurdly impressive??? The scope and what they say will be in it might be but the current alpha is far from impressive with the amount of time and money they poured into it. Just because it's on the to do list it does not make a project impressive it actually have to manifest to.

And a lead with amazing track record? By god I hope you are not referring to Chris Roberts than you are truly lost and should read about how this mismanagement and missing of deadlines is kind of what he always does and been fired for in the past. The guy is as far off an amazing track record you probably can get.

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Stop trolling you are trying way to hard. The game is already impressive at this stage that no other game has. Not everything is bad about this game because of the progress they make with every patch. Maybe you need to play it or watch some video's from the community instead of spending time with concern trolling video's.

Als yes, al lot of devs have a great track record and have worked at other great game studios or in the movie world. Many concept artist they have in-house have worked on Star Wars movies, marvel movies, Alien franchise and so on. They have a lot of talented devs inhouse. I do not think it's fair shitting on those 500+ devs working hard on it, but hey, it's we can shit on devs but when it's about another game...we need to respect them.....

 

[Error 52]

0.o

This is why I wonder if the majority of negative comments about the game itself are from people who haven't really looked at the development progress. Criticism of the funding system are completely warranted, but criticising that a game as insanely ambitious as this is taking a long time? Weird. Criticism that there isn't much of a game at all? Just ignorant. Unless you also fall into the No Man's Sky "but what do you actually do?" camp I suppose. But that's also not a good look.

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IT LOOKS PRETTY WE FUCKING GET IT ALREADY

No amount of gifs change the fact that it's horribly mismanaged and nowhere CLOSE to being done.

 

[Greywaren]

This has to be the prettiest scam of all time. Look at how beautiful this very expensive, forever unfinished product looks!

 

[Darkstorne]

IT LOOKS PRETTY WE FUCKING GET IT ALREADY

No amount of gifs change the fact that it's horribly mismanaged and nowhere CLOSE to being done.

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I'm saying that for a game of this scope, six years of dev time to reach this kind of playable state is really not an issue:


There are legitimately people in here claiming the game is a scam; that people are only being sold promises and pictures of ships; and the guy I replied to above that a few people in the Dreams alpha could produce something better in a month lol

It is abundantly clear that a huge number of "scam" commenters have no idea what state this game is in today.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

I've always been fascinated by Star Citizen as a weird social experiment more than it as a game. Its such a weird thing.

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It's a gigantic piece of performance art

 

[daegan]

They have a lot of talented devs inhouse. I do not think it's fair shitting on those 500+ devs working hard on it, but hey, it's we can shit on devs but when it's about another game...we need to respect them.....

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I haven't seen anyone saying the issues are with the folks doing the heavy lifting, who are clearly talented, but that the project is being mismanaged and is monetized in a really gross way

 

[Manu]

I'm saying that for a game of this scope, six years of dev time to reach this kind of playable state is really not an issue:


There are legitimately people in here claiming the game is a scam; that people are only being sold promises and pictures of ships; and the guy I replied to above that a few people in the Dreams alpha could produce something better in a month lol

It is abundantly clear that a huge number of "scam" commenters have no idea what state this game is in today.

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By your estimate, how close to complete is the game? Give us a rough %
How long do you think it will take at this rate?

 

[Hierophant]

I'm saying that for a game of this scope, six years of dev time to reach this kind of playable state is really not an issue:


There are legitimately people in here claiming the game is a scam; that people are only being sold promises and pictures of ships; and the guy I replied to above that a few people in the Dreams alpha could produce something better in a month lol

It is abundantly clear that a huge number of "scam" commenters have no idea what state this game is in today.

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How many of the ships sold now are currently in the game and flyable? How many of the numerous gameplay styles and mechanics, of which there are many, that these ships promise (farmer, smuggler, journalist, miner etc.) are in the game right now?

 

[Darkstorne]

By your estimate, how close to complete is the game? Give us a rough %
How long do you think it will take at this rate?

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I think Star Citizen will never be finished. Meaning that eventually the game will "launch" but be managed as a GaaS title / MMO. They'll continually add new ships to the game, sold in this pretty disgusting way, targeting whales to fund the production of more and more planets. The game will continually expand until people stop playing. I think it's less disgusting than loot boxes though. These ships do get added to the game, or people would stop buying them (the 890 Jump was added very recently - a previous big money ship).

I think Squadron 42 (the single player game, kept mostly under wraps like any traditional game dev process) will release 2020 or 2021 though, for PC and next gen consoles. That's the point we'll see fully polished gameplay systems, which are always late in game dev anyway. I imagine Star Citizen will enter some kind of release state on PC and next gen consoles within a year after that.

How many of the ships sold now are currently in the game and flyable? How many of the numerous gameplay styles and mechanics, of which there are many, that these ships promise (farmer, smuggler, journalist, miner etc.) are in the game right now?

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No idea on the % of ships available, but they're added regularly enough. 890 Jump being the most recent. Gameplay systems have been trickling in too the past year or so, with bounty hunting, mining, mission running, trading, smuggling, piracy, exploration of planets etc available. All still need futher polish, and many will obviously benefit once new planets and systems are added. It's got a long way to go, but with SQ42 still a good year or two out, the systems side really isn't look so bad. I think the main thing Star Citizen needs to push all these gameplay systems is more planets and systems to push the space-sim sandbox potential. Most of that focus is understandably on SQ42 right now though, but presumably all planets made for that game will also be pushed into Star Citizen, and then the team focuses entirely on content for Star Citizen.

 

[fanboi]

Absurdly impressive??? The scope and what they say will be in it might be but the current alpha is far from impressive with the amount of time and money they poured into it. Just because it's on the to do list it does not make a project impressive it actually have to manifest to.

And a lead with amazing track record? By god I hope you are not referring to Chris Roberts than you are truly lost and should read about how this mismanagement and missing of deadlines is kind of what he always does and been fired for in the past. The guy is as far off an amazing track record you probably can get.

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The tech in this game is very impressive, just take the city planets as an example.

 

[mxbison]

if you have the $28k pack but couldn't attend the dinner, are they generous enough to let you buy the $675 ship anyway?

 

[Mechaplum]

if you have the $28k pack but couldn't attend the dinner, are they generous enough to let you buy the $675 ship anyway?

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$28k?? As in same price as a decent car?

 

[Steelrain]

Spend $1000 for the opportunity to spend $250 for the opportunity to spend $675 for a thing that doesn't exist, brehs.

Waiting on the "recruit a friend for early access to this $100 ship" phase.

 

[Tobor]

I see people comparing this to RDR2 and Dreams as examples of equally long dev cycles, and it misses the fucking point.

Rockstar didn't sell $28000 complete packages of all horses in the game. You paid $60 after the game released. Yes, they have mtx now, but those mtx purchase released content. Not images of content to come.

There is nothing comparable to the amounts of money people are spending on this game and the normal business model(paying money for finished content) is inverted.

 

[Deleted member 50658]

Stop trolling you are trying way to hard. The game is already impressive at this stage that no other game has. Not everything is bad about this game because of the progress they make with every patch. Maybe you need to play it or watch some video's from the community instead of spending time with concern trolling video's.

Als yes, al lot of devs have a great track record and have worked at other great game studios or in the movie world. Many concept artist they have in-house have worked on Star Wars movies, marvel movies, Alien franchise and so on. They have a lot of talented devs inhouse. I do not think it's fair shitting on those 500+ devs working hard on it, but hey, it's we can shit on devs but when it's about another game...we need to respect them.....

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It's shiny but that's about it. The world is dead, no one and nothing to really interact and what is the point of a gigantic procedural city if it is as interactive as the dessert on the moon next to it. And I have played it and it didn't actually help the game. Flight mechanics were shit, the game ran like a turd especially when more than a single person was close (this is supposed to be an mmo right) and everything felt janky and unfinished.

And I did not shit on 500 devs I shit on the guy in charge who should have been flushed down the toilet in any project with this kind of mismanagement but in this case he is the one making that decision so I guess he will remain.

 

[Deleted member 36749]

At some point the people have to realize theyre being treated like an ATM machine by the devs.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

I remember back in the old forums SQ42 supposedly was going to launch "soon" and I am posting this on the new forums and SQ42 still doesn't have a release date.

How can someone defend this development especially with the disgusting ways they keep raising money for it?

 

[mxbison]

$28k?? As in same price as a decent car?

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what is one car compared to like 100 space ships?

 

[Northern Lights]

This makes AAAs with MTX and P2W mobile games look like a charity. At least their MTX stuff exists and don't cost thousands (I guess some mobile games have that kind of stuff, but still).

 

[Skade]

Flight mechanics were shit, the game ran like a turd especially when more than a single person was close (this is supposed to be an mmo right) and the and everything felt janky and unfinished.

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The fact that everything felt janky and unfinished seems logical in a game still in Alpha. The flight mechanics are not shit, they are complicated to grasp and unfinished but once you get how it works, it's very interesting. Different than what you expect doesn't mean bad. And for the game performance, installing it on a hard drive is a death sentence. It's SSD only. And you better have a decent processor. Again, it's still in alpha, that's to be expected.

But yeah, even when knowing what to expect, trying to play the game can be "complicated" and might not let the best impression.

 

[Klyka]

Last thing i saw of Star Citizen was a ramp on a space ship totally glitch out. This was on stage st a presentation.
Did they fix the ramp or does that cost 200$ as well?

 

[hanmik]

I keep seeing posts with "The game is already impressive", "what we got now is fine" etc.. but what is it that you have? is it a game..? a tech demo showing what will/can be?.. what is it..? it is never made clear..

And wtf at squadron 42 launching in 2020 beta and full launch in 2021..? what??? the game was delayed in 2016.. it had trailers and everything prior to that.. how can they keep delaying Sqaudron 42.? are they also adding more stuff to that game all the time?

 

[killer7]

I'd buy that for a dollar!

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Me too.

 

[killer7]

The development on this game just constantly raises red flags lol

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:'D

 

[noyram23]

People should call this out, this is more gross than mtx plaguing AAA games right now. At least those are finished games, they don't cost $675, and those mtx items actually exist in game.

People who defend this, can you explain how this is ok? Am I missing something here?

 

[fanboi]

IT LOOKS PRETTY WE FUCKING GET IT ALREADY

No amount of gifs change the fact that it's horribly mismanaged and nowhere CLOSE to being done.

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And we know the issues that a lot is dogpiling SC on, why should that be allowed to continue then?

And in a thread where people are saying that it isn't technicaly impressive, gifs can be used.

 

[entrydenied]

That's what I don't get. Adding new features is all cool and good, but wouldn't you rather have a finished game first and then expand on it by addons? Shouldn't there be a point where they say "okay folks, we appreciate all your money and good will, and we will add features, but we want to deliver a complete and round product first"? But I guess as long as money flows... never touch a running system.

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Imagine Blizzard trying to make Wow plus all the expansions and updates all at once before actually releasing it. That's what this company is basically doing. Scam or not, they should have followed a regular MMORPG method of releasing a base game first and then adding features over time. They're too ambitious and I think they will ultimately fail to deliver.

 

[fanboi]

People should call this out, this is more gross than mtx plaguing AAA games right now. At least those are finished games, they don't cost $675, and those mtx items actually exist in game.

People who defend this, can you explain how this is ok? Am I missing something here?

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I haven't backed this game as of yet, but I can see a lot of arguments validating this for consumers:

• Incredible scope for a game
• Dream game for many people
• Loves space and love space games
• Love MMO:s
• And so on...

 

[Interested Observer]

It mostly went that way. The kickstarter had it's different stages of pledges and with each came a different ship. Then, they moved on to the RSI website and kept selling a few ships but since people kept asking for more, they provided. Again and again.

To this day, people are still asking for an option top buy some ships that CIG DOESN'T want to sell.

Yes, i don't really like the way CIG handle the selling of ships but the community kinda asked for it. So... You can't really blame CIG for rolling with it.

I mean, there was even a point when the funding reached 60 millions (i think, it was a long time ago) where Roberts said they had enough money to do the game as pitched (at that time) and asked the community if they should stop the fundraising or keep going. The response was overwhelmingly for continuing. The players are as responsible as CIG for the state we are in now.

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Interesting thanks, didn't know much of that. If they're giving the people what they want, then what can you say really. I still have grave concerns over this actual becoming a game though I must say.

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

The flight mechanics are not shit, they are complicated to grasp and unfinished but once you get how it works, it's very interesting. Different than what you expect doesn't mean bad.

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In game design, if something feels bad, it is bad, no matter how justified you think it is.

 

[fanboi]

In game design, if something feels bad, it is bad, no matter how justified you think it is.

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And in game design (and everything else), if something feels bad for me, doesn't mean it is bad for other people.

 

[noyram23]

I haven't backed this game as of yet, but I can see a lot of arguments validating this for consumers:

• Incredible scope for a game
• Dream game for many people
• Loves space and love space games
• Love MMO:s
• And so on...

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So does that justifies the gross monetization they're doing with the game? I mean you can easily say that 'it's their money' to spend but you can easily use that justification on mtx and people here will agree that mtx is gross too. And this is way more money than the usual money sink on mtx, and all of this features doesn't exist in a game that is clearly not finish and looks like still ways to go.

 

[Deleted member 14568]

well looks like some of y'all needs this

https://www.wikihow.com/Leave-a-Cult

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

And in game design (and everything else), if something feels bad for me, doesn't mean it is bad for other people.

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Generally speaking, not sticking to genre conventions (controls, movement, etc) means it will feel bad for anyone that is acquainted with that genre. Try going back to how FPS games did control back in the PS1 days, for instance.

 

[fanboi]

So does that justifies the gross monetization they're doing with the game? I mean you can easily say that 'it's their money' to spend but you can easily use that justification on mtx and people here will agree that mtx is gross too. And this is way more money than the usual money sink on mtx, and all of this features doesn't exist in a game that is clearly not finish and looks like still ways to go.

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Compared to other models, I think this is more then fine then compared to "roulette" style lootboxes, where you trigger a certain part of the brain to "play more" which can lead down a dark path where you spend endless of money. Also in those models you have a finished game, where here you invest in a game being made, while you can argue both ways here I guess, but here you can help fund your dream game (which I assume these people are that put a lot of money into this).

 

[Deleted member 50658]

The fact that everything felt janky and unfinished seems logical in a game still in Alpha. The flight mechanics are not shit, they are complicated to grasp and unfinished but once you get how it works, it's very interesting. Different than what you expect doesn't mean bad. And for the game performance, installing it on a hard drive is a death sentence. It's SSD only. And you better have a decent processor. Again, it's still in alpha, that's to be expected.

But yeah, even when knowing what to expect, trying to play the game can be "complicated" and might not let the best impression.

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Literally nothing felt finished outside of models basically and when reading these kinds of headlines I guess that is the focus of this game. Not sell actual gameplay and show of working things but impress only with visuals and concepts of what may one time work as intended but not until patch 7235.8.

So "complicated to grasp and unfinished" is something to be applauded? After almost a decade of development? For a space sim where it should be one if not the most important aspect of the game. And difficult to maneuver does not equal good or we would be steering our cars sitting backwards with the pedals in the roof.

 

[fanboi]

Generally speaking, not sticking to genre conventions (controls, movement, etc) means it will feel bad for anyone that is acquainted with that genre. Try going back to how FPS games did control back in the PS1 days, for instance.

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While true, it is not bad to experiment how things control since they might find the new new.

 

[noyram23]

Compared to other models, I think this is more then fine then compared to "roulette" style lootboxes, where you trigger a certain part of the brain to "play more" which can lead down a dark path where you spend endless of money. Also in those models you have a finished game, where here you invest in a game being made, while you can argue both ways here I guess, but here you can help fund your dream game (which I assume these people are that put a lot of money into this).

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This more fine than lootbox? Sure this isn't taking advantage of addiction but this is taking of advantage of people who wants this specific game and already invested in the game too much.

That's not even delving how this game a feature creep development nightmare already.

 

[BrassDragon]

I crowdfunded because I just wanted my single player Wing Commander experience...

Glad people are getting enjoyment out of this metagame of spaceship collection, backer perks and early access demos but I've moved on.

 

[fanboi]

This more fine than lootbox? Sure this isn't taking advantage of addiction but this is taking of advantage of people who wants this specific game and already invested in the game too much.

That's not even delving how this game a feature creep development nightmare already.

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Yes, much more fine imo. Since gambling is a legit problem in todays society.

And yes, they have had major problems with feature creep and management problems, but that doesn't change the fact regarding the monetization model.

 

[DieH@rd]

So does that justifies the gross monetization they're doing with the game?

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They are offering ships, nobody is forced to buy them. It's very obvious that fans of this game want to get them, to try them out in game, get their friends on board, fly, have fun and experience some of the content that's in alpha. The game has over 2 million backers, some wanting online shared space and some waiting for Squadron 42 singleplayer content that is slowly approaching release.

I don't see why is that offending so many people.

Yes, game is large and not yet done, but it's very ambitious, it used brand new advanced tech, and it already offers a fun playground for those who want to fly in prerelease version.

 

[Captain_Raoul]

I keep seeing posts with "The game is already impressive", "what we got now is fine" etc.. but what is it that you have? is it a game..? a tech demo showing what will/can be?.. what is it..? it is never made clear..

And wtf at squadron 42 launching in 2020 beta and full launch in 2021..? what??? the game was delayed in 2016.. it had trailers and everything prior to that.. how can they keep delaying Sqaudron 42.? are they also adding more stuff to that game all the time?

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Who said 2021? I do believe they launch it later next year. Star Citzen is more complicated then SQ42 because they do not have to deal with a lot of networking tech.

 

[DieH@rd]

I crowdfunded because I just wanted my single player Wing Commander experience...

Glad people are getting enjoyment out of this metagame of spaceship collection, backer perks and early access demos but I've moved on.

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I'm in the same board, although I check out the big alpha patches when they come out and I'm pleased with the progress.

 

[Toxi]

At least the dinner was actually prepared on schedule.

 

[Deleted member 50658]

Interesting thanks, didn't know much of that. If they're giving the people what they want, then what can you say really. I still have grave concerns over this actual becoming a game though I must say.

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I bet 99% of the persons that invested into this game before it crossed 100 million of crowdfunding expected it to be released by now and not that the developers would miss every deadline for the next 5 years and they would still keep it up with adding stuff to sell ships without an actual game at this point.

 

[Deleted member 20831]

While true, it is not bad to experiment how things control since they might find the new new.

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If the game emphasis is on gameplay (like controlling the craft), the very first thing to lock down would be the gameplay and the everything else.

But the recent alpha builds shows extremely heavy emphasis on game visuals (very evident by the huge download and heavy on visual processing loads).

I would expect the game in early stages to literally be boxes of geometry to control and game world filled with less geometry and almost void of textures as I check around the gameplay, gameplay loop, flight controls etc.

 

[Swenhir]

0.o

This is why I wonder if the majority of negative comments about the game itself are from people who haven't really looked at the development progress. Criticism of the funding system are completely warranted, but criticising that a game as insanely ambitious as this is taking a long time? Weird. Criticism that there isn't much of a game at all? Just ignorant. Unless you also fall into the No Man's Sky "but what do you actually do?" camp I suppose. But that's also not a good look.

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Pretty much this. But people hating on games while knowing jack shit about how they work and are built is on par for the course on every videogame forum.

I think as a backer and someone who has kept tabs on the game since October of 2012, the only thing that really scares me about the trajectory of SC is its game designers. Their engineers, systems designers and artists have proven their mettle. But designers? Oh boy.

I mean they have extraordinary things in their hands and I'm getting increasingly concerned that they don't seem to really want to build the systemic game everyone else in the studio so passionately built the foundation for.