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Are 30FPS more cinematic?

  • Yes, they are.

    Votes: 225 15.2%
  • Nope

    Votes: 1,256 84.7%

  • Total voters
    1,483
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Bricktop

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,847
What? A rendered frame is a still image. A filmed frame is a still image. Motion blur is a solution that mimics how a filmed frame at 24fps captures a still image. They are not THAT different. No one is igboring

A rendered frame is a fixed point in time and is rendered individually, a filmed frame still is a slice of a continuous exposure, completely different. Motion blur is naturally occurring in film. There is no natural motion blur in rendered content. It's ADDED after the fact specifically to compensate for the lower framerate. They aren't the same at all.

There is literally nothing magically "cinematic" about 30 fps. You can add similar effects to 60 fps games, or higher, to give it the same feel.

The entire "30 fps games are more cinematic" was just a poor comment to excuse the fact that developers couldn't hit 60 fps at the graphical fidelity that they wanted to push at the time.
 

Rpgmonkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,351
Framerate just isn't really something that sticks out to me at all in making a game feel more cinematic. I mean yeah I guess if the game is 24/30FPS it's technically "closer" to a film in that one aspect, but no game at 30FPS ever actually felt like it was more "cinematic" to me because of the framerate. The animation, physics, rendering, and quality of all assets just aren't up to par with well, real life, and won't be for quite some time. There'll be that poor texture, or a rendering/animation bug, or some jaggies, or lighting/reflections that don't fully match real world light behavior, or clipping, or a myriad of other things that are totally noticeable to me and keep me from feeling like I'm in control of some kind of interactive live-action film as opposed to "just" playing a video game. So a game can't run at 30FPS and somehow look less "gamey" to me. Not that there's anything wrong with that, games are games and movies are movies.

Basically, it was a silly comment in the first place and no I don't agree with it.
 

8byte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,880
Kansas
When people say higher framerates are objectively better, they generally mean when all else is equal. We're talking about framerate itself, not the tradeoff between framerate and other graphical priorities.

Even if everything is equal, there is *still* the difference in visual representation between 30fps and 60fps.

60fps *plays* better, however, it is still subjective as to which *looks* better, because some may prefer an image that more closely mirrors that which we see in film.
 

J_ToSaveTheDay

"This guy are sick" and Corrupted by Vengeance
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
18,944
USA
30fps is a compromise made to scale to low-end hardware and nothing else.

I find 30fps perfectly tolerable to play games at, but I refuse to accept that it's a creative choice made to enhance the cinematic quality of the presentation. Games require physical input at some point, the mainstream design of games currently revolves around efficient use of input to succeed at presented challenges, and higher framerates with well managed frame pacing absolutely, undeniably create a better input environment for the player, and I think have the added benefit of creating a more immediately immersive experience as well — the more 1:1 the action to response is, the more the player feels mentally in tune with the game's feedback loop.

30fps is closer to 24fps, which is cinema's traditional framerate presentation, but games inherently require player input and the vast majority of games design around efficient use of input to succeed at goals and provide feedback, and therefore artificially lowering the framerate to match cinematic conventions runs counter to a enhancing a game experience.

30fps is the lowest tolerable framerate, but higher is always, absolutely better.
 

AtomicShroom

Tools & Automation
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
3,091
It is more cinematic.

The real question, however, is: Why is "cinematic" deemed as a desirable quality for video games? Games are made to be played, not watched passively.

So get that 30fps right the fuck out of my games!!!
 

supernormal

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,161
It definitely looks completely different. What you prefer is up to you. For example, I switch back and forth between 30/60 in Gears 5 on PC. I prefer the look of 30 FPS while exploring, and 60 fps is more responsive for combat.
 

CaptainK

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,889
Canada
I don't feel that 30fps in games is more cinematic at all, even though it's technically closer to the 24fps standard in films. I can tell when I game is running at 30fps (or less), and it's a constant reminder to me that I'm playing a game. Whereas watching a film at 24fps, I don't think about it at all. I suppose it's due to the motion blur or other post-processing, but I'm used to films at 24fps, and games at 30fps are nothing like it.
 

ShinyKyurem

Member
Jul 11, 2019
132
Even if 30fps means a more cinematic experience (which I don't think so), that doesn't make it better.
 
Last edited:
Oct 31, 2017
8,466
60 fps is the new cinematic and 144/165 is the new golden standard.

P.S. And nope, I won't take any argument about genre or art style as an excuse.
Even playing Civilization feels better at higher framerate.
 

Shoshi

Banned
Jan 9, 2018
1,661
Difficult to make good polls. I think the question should have been something more in the line of:
"Do you prefer a 'cinematic experience' of 30fps, or do you prefer a 'better gameplay experience' of 60fps in games?"
1. Cinematic experience in 30fps
2. Gameplay experience in 60fps

Or...
"I'm not asking whetever you prefer 60 over 30 but do you see 30 as more 'cinematic' than 60fps?"
1. Yes, 30 is more cinematic (I prefer playing games in either 60 or 30fps)
2. No I don't think 30 is more cinematic than 60 (I prefer playing games in either 60 or 30fps)
3. I don't understand the question since I'm not looking for a 'cinematic' but a 'gameplay experience'

or...
1. Some games like A, B, C are good examples where 30fps is a more 'cinematic experience' than it would have been at 60fps
2. Some games like A, B, C are said to be good examples of 'cinematic experience' provided in 30fp, but I don't think so. I think they are as much or more cinematic in 60fps.
 
Aug 28, 2019
440
Of all the things that might make me look at a game and think "gosh, it looks like a movie," the hardware struggling to render it efficiently is not among them. Ubisoft didn't make a creative decision to target 30fps, they made an excuse for not managing 60.
 

Firefly

Member
Jul 10, 2018
8,701
What I see some people in this thread aguing is basically that Links Awakening at 30fps is more cinematic than The Last of Us Remastered at 60fps. Which would be a logical thing to say if we only watch games. To these people I ask, why arent cutscenes in games capped at 24fps?
 

Sincerest

Member
Jan 22, 2018
606
What I see some people in this thread aguing is basically that Links Awakening at 30fps is more cinematic than The Last of Us Remastered at 60fps. Which would be a logical thing to say if we only watch games. To these people I ask, why arent cutscenes in games capped at 24fps?
You really believe the people you are passing that question to have the brain capacity to realize what you're saying?

I'd give it up if I were you
 

Total Cereal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
599
Yes, 30FPS looks more cinematic simply because the frame rate is much closer to the 24fps that movies use. It doesn't make it better, though. If all movies ran at 48fps we'd be arguing that 60fps looks more cinematic.
 

closer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,179
though I suppose you can argue that even though it is kind of immersion breaking to have 60 fps cinema (in the sense that the illusion is a bit broken, the actors seem more like actors on a set, etc.), the framerate in games doesn't really suffer as much from this due to being pure simulation.

i can see why animated scenes need to stay at 30 tho:
 

8byte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,880
Kansas
A rendered frame is a fixed point in time and is rendered individually, a filmed frame still is a slice of a continuous exposure, completely different. Motion blur is naturally occurring in film. There is no natural motion blur in rendered content. It's ADDED after the fact specifically to compensate for the lower framerate. They aren't the same at all.

There is literally nothing magically "cinematic" about 30 fps. You can add similar effects to 60 fps games, or higher, to give it the same feel.

The entire "30 fps games are more cinematic" was just a poor comment to excuse the fact that developers couldn't hit 60 fps at the graphical fidelity that they wanted to push at the time.

you're really grasping here to make your point, and it isn't at all close to working. Splitting hairs on rendered vs filmed frames doesn't make your position more concrete. Still frames in sequence to replicate motion, no matter how they're created, are still similar in their end result.

Also, you're intentionally obfuscating what is meant when people say "cinematic". Being closer to a traditional film frame rate *is* closer to representing images presented in film.

Don't conflate people saying 30fps is more cinematic with "30fps is better than 60fps".I'm not saying that, and I don't think anyone is. There is room to say 30fps is closer to representing film, and 60fps is a more responsive and playable framerate.
 

Nappuccino

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,102
Depends on the game. Shadow of the Colossus still doesn't look right at anything other than 25fps to me.
 

Spark

Member
Dec 6, 2017
2,586
Even 60 feels sluggish these days, need that 120fps+ Gsync for true smoothness.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,687
I'll put it this way.

This is the most idiotic argument, simply because the traditional cinematic aesthetic is 24fps, and it doesn't look anything like 30fps.
 

LCGeek

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,891
it's incredibly stupid and inaccurate to state for many reasons. Cinema films have post processing and to ignore the influence of that seems dumb in discussion of how games look or handle motion.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
LMAO at that thread title. I thought this was a joke but the OP is hella serious.

no, 30fps is neither "cinematic" nor desirable in gaming. It's really nonsense coping statements put in place to come to terms with the limitations of console hardware and the desire to throw in "more graphics" at the expense of performance overall performance (FPS) to sell more product and create more buzz.

the only thing 30fps ever did was make rotating in 3D spaces blurry and choppy and increase input lag for the sake of looking a bit better.
 

Bricktop

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,847
you're really grasping here to make your point, and it isn't at all close to working. Splitting hairs on rendered vs filmed frames doesn't make your position more concrete. Still frames in sequence to replicate motion, no matter how they're created, are still similar in their end result.

Also, you're intentionally obfuscating what is meant when people say "cinematic". Being closer to a traditional film frame rate *is* closer to representing images presented in film.

Who knew spitting facts was grasping at straws?

If they were similar in their end result developers wouldn't have to add in visual effects to make them similar. Developers literally ADD that feel, it doesn't naturally occur at 30 fps.

If you need proof go play a game that allows you to turn motion blur on and off and cap it at 30 fps. You'll clearly see that the it's not the framerate that gives it the feel you call cinematic.
 
Jan 21, 2019
2,903
Not really, it's not the framerate that brings the mediums together. The cutscenes of mgs5 are more cinematic at 60fps than anything in Dark Souls at 30fps.
 
Last edited:

Prattle

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
995
I get used to 30fps but would rather have 60fps.

It's the games where the framerate jumps around that ruins my immersion
 

Hace

Member
Sep 21, 2018
894
Honestly I like 30FPS cutscenes, they feel different juxtaposed to 60fps gameplay, like in Nier:Automata
 

zoltek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,917
Nobody ever said 30 fps was more cinematic with a straight face. There are 127 trolls and/or certifiably blind individuals who answered yes. I say this as someone who thinks very lowly of those who claim 30 fps is unplayable or "it gives me headaches". No it isn't and no it doesn't.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
I'm in the camp that wants everything to just run nicely at 1080p and 60fps instead of aiming to be glitzier with every generation, while at the same time being an absolute purist about 24fps in cinema.

*

The thing about games is that they don't have a celluloid texture to begin with, and you're not stripping away that materiality of the canvas for the sake of the hyperreal.

I say this as somebody who is extremely strict about disabling frame interpolation for films, since I mostly watch classic cinema and have seen a ton of it projected in 35mm, and I know what it's supposed to look like. I'm very sensitive to the "soap opera effect" and the uncanny-valley effect it produces by stripping out the natural motion and variance of film grain and squashing everything into cheap digital video. The post-processing looks awful. You'd think this wouldn't apply so much to current cinema, where digital photography and/or VFX don't always have that palpable texture to begin with, but anyone who caught recent films like the Peter Jackson Hobbit in 48fps—shot that way, without artificial frames generated in post-processing—can attest to how it exposes the artificiality of film sets and has a way of making a set look like a set.

So 24fps actually is cinematic, in a way that I notice vividly. (For films after it was standardized, I mean: if you go back to the silent era, exhibiting films shot for other standards like 20fps with modern technology is a subject of some debate.) But it's entirely for reasons that have no pertinence to games.

*

I'm only talking about CG, mind you. To be honest, something like a Pixar film would probably look fine at a high frame rate for the same reason they already look fine in stereoscopic 3D, since they're digitally rendered to begin with and generate so much motion between keyframes with simulation, and the reason this doesn't and won't happen is because each and every frame is so expensive already. It's not the same kettle of fish as hand-drawn artwork or live-action footage.

The most truly cinematic game I've played in recent memory is Cuphead. It's very responsive and runs at 60fps, but I wasn't surprised at all to learn that the animations were drawn at 24fps. That game is going for a specific look—the one that animated shorts had pre-television, when they were made to be projected on film—and it gets there with more than just the grain filter. It's the rare game that you actually want to have look like a film instead of a video game, because that's the aesthetic commitment to authenticity the designers are making, but it doesn't come at the cost of game-like responsiveness.

This is the ideal compromise, really. If you go back to Kirby and the Rainbow Curse, the game itself runs at 60fps (and you can tell from your motion through the environments) but the object animations only shift once every few frames to capture the look and feel of stop-motion. It looks quite authentically like stop-motion—but again, not at the cost of the responsiveness of the game. The low "frame rate" of the animations actually comes off as a darn sight smoother than a fully 30fps Kirby game like Star Allies.

*

The irony is that I pick up on the pestilential calamity of the soap opera effect as consciously as I do because I've seen 60fps in games, so the uncanniness comes from seeing a film look like a game when I expect it to look like a film. But it doesn't follow that running a game at 30fps or 24fps suffices to make it look like film. First of all, I typically don't want that anyway, as I want my games to look like games—but I've disliked the game industry's perpetual cinema envy since the 1990s, and that hasn't changed; in a video game context, the buzzword "cinematic" almost always reveals an extremely narrow perspective on cinema. (And even at 60fps, a lot of the performance-captured animation in AAA productions is far too chunky and laggy for my liking; not game-like enough.) You can't simply pretend to be made at 24fps if you weren't shot that way, or animated frame-by-frame that way. What makes a film look like a film is not so much that number itself, but the dance of light and shadow and grain and how they "run" at 24fps.

The art of cinematography developed with those nuances in mind, and high-quality digital restorations are very sensitive to preserving that look. If you shoot something in digital and print it on 35mm, it doesn't suddenly look like it was shot on 35mm. (I remember this being something of a hot subject back when Attack of the Clones was first released.) Now, there's been a fair bit of convergence here, now that everything goes through a digital intermediate anyway, but people with a better eye for photography than I do can still pick up on how something shot in digital at 24fps is film-like in a way that is unlike how something shot on celluloid at 24fps in film-like. (Anyway, I know I'm cutting corners and I won't belabour the point; celluloid/digital is not the distinction we care about here. If you want to see a demonstration, refer to Sean Baker's film The Florida Project, which switches from film to digital at a critical moment—partly for artistic effect, and partly because it was the only way that scene would get done. Trust me, you'll notice the difference.)

My point—TL;DR—is that a game that runs at 30fps doesn't look like a film. It looks like a game running at 30fps.
 
Last edited:

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
It's a stupid justification for an understandable technical limitation. It's an attempt at passing off a compromise as something of value to consumers.

If you really want to dig into the meat of the stupidity, one of the definitions of cinematic is:

having qualities characteristic of motion pictures.

What's the quality, or characteristic that 30fps brings to a game that 60fps wouldn't?

Does it share the same framerate as movies? No.

Does it animate more like a movie? No.

What is the characteristic that 30fps brings that a 60fps game doesn't have that makes it more cinematic?

Cinema is derived from the greek word kinēma (movement) and kinein ("to move"). 30fps has less frames of motion than 60fps. By the very definition of word that defines cinema it is less "cinematic".

It's a comment that has no actual bearing on reality and it's accompanied by other excellent comments like "we added black bars to make the game more cinematic". It's stupid. Let it die and call out BS when devs bring it up.
 

Amauri14

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,713
Danbury, CT, USA
What it is insane is that there are some people that believe that bullshit. 30 fps is not even "cinematic" is just the 30 fps is just the bare minimum a game can be put and still be somehow playable. When I play games don't care about cinematic bullshit, so fuck 30 fps and fuck motion blur. The only way I accept 30 fps is on consoles, and that's why I only use them to play exclusive games on it. 60 fps is my bare minimum and the more fps the better.
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,415
Well, cinema and cinematics aren't playable. So yeah, I'd say 30FPS gets closer to achieving that than 60 by an objective measure.
 

exodus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,958
Cinematic? Sure. We associate the 24Hz look to cinema, and 30 FPS most closely resembles that.

That being said, I don't care about a game looking cinematic. I want a game to be fast and responsive and to have the best motion clarity possible. A high frame rate is the only option. 60fps feels inadequate for a lot of games.
 

Adam_Roman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,069
I still remember everyone saying TLOU was gonna be less cinematic at 60fps and they'd play it with the 30fps cap. I turned on the cap for all of 5 seconds then had to go back. 60fps is always better to me.
 

Rosé Fighter

Alt Account
Banned
Aug 23, 2019
837
60 fps all the way.

The Beastcast had a good talk about this, but basically the only reason we see 24 fps as "cinematic" was because thats how the first films were. If the first films in history were 60 fps, everybody would consider that the standard.

Now, Motion smoothing? That is awful.
 

FarZa17

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,577
I don't consider the number of frames to offer more "cinematic experience" personally. This cinematic in video game that I enjoy is how the scene plays with camera works, dialogues, characters, and anything related that play and appear on screen.
 

squidyj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,670
It's not more cinematic but it's a fine FPS, much rather have nice rendering features than 60fps.
 
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