• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,354

Thorn ( þ ) is an old letter from the English alphabet which made the sound "th". It vanished slowly after the printing press was introduced.
The reason? All early printing presses came from Germany and later also Italy, who had no Thorn letter in their alphabet.
As the letter thorn looked kinda like the Letter Y in the gothic font at that time, Germans and Italians used the letter Y for a thorn substitute because it was not widely used at that time.

You know the fancy signs of "Ye olde Pub"? etc. It was never pronounced "yee" or "ye" Just "thee" or "the"
Sometimes later the use of "Y" fell out of vogue and the use of "th" for the sound Thorn was introduced.
The change from "thou" to "you" should be more eye-opening now. But why it was never changed back after introducing "th", is anyone's guess.

Why the English never created their own printing press alphabet is also anyone's guess.
 

Slime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,970
ThornMark.jpg
 

Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,589
Wait, isn't it based on the thurisaz rune in the German runic alphabets?
 

Kor of Memory

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,668
Don't forget about Wynn!

Wynn (Ƿ ƿ) is a letter of the Old English alphabet, where it is used to represent the sound /w/.

Though it more commonly looks like a P with sharper edges.
25px-Runic_letter_wunjo.svg.png



Wynn was replaced with uu eventually because of it's resemblence to the letter P, before eventually becoming it's own letter w but still being referred to as a double U.


Edit: Whoops, this was supposed to be an edit to my post above.
 

miscellaneous houseplant

self-requsted ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
306
English might have the most absurd history of any major language spoken today. It is a crazy blend caused by repeated invasions, migrations, elitist thought, and straight up mistakes that stuck.
 

Crushed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,706
The change from "thou" to "you" should be more eye-opening now. But why it was never changed back after introducing "th", is anyone's guess.
From what I can tell with five minutes of googling, You/Thou was already a distinction prior to the printing press, it was just a formal/informal distinction (think tu/vous in French). The thorn dying may have helped, though.
 
OP
OP
Kyougar

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,354
From what I can tell with five minutes of googling, You/Thou was already a distinction prior to the printing press, it was just a formal/informal distinction (think tu/vous in French). The thorn dying may have helped, though.

Or the german "Sie/du"
 

Monroe Kelly

Member
Oct 28, 2017
82
Cool article, OP. Didn't know the correct pronunciation of "Ye."

Why the English never created their own printing press alphabet is also anyone's guess.

The earliest bibles of the English Reformation, following the legalization of English translations, were printed in Antwerp by Tyndale and imported to England. It influenced later translations, including the King James Version. The writings of Luther and other Reformation theologians were also primarily printed and translated into English outside of England first. I'd guess there just wasn't really a need for a printing press with English-specific characters, because continental literature already filled that role by the time the majority of English society actually read and wrote in English.
 

LordofPwn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,402
You know the fancy signs of "Ye olde Pub"? etc. It was never pronounced "yee" or "ye" Just "thee" or "the"
Sometimes later the use of "Y" fell out of vogue and the use of "th" for the sound Thorn was introduced.
The change from "thou" to "you" should be more eye-opening now. But why it was never changed back after introducing "th", is anyone's guess.
giphy.gif
 

Crushed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,706
Ironically, while "thou" is considered stuffy and proper and fancy today, it was actually considered the informal, casual second-person pronoun. Ye/you was originally plural only and considered the polite version to show respect. Thou mostly died out in the 1600s when it became to be considered rude and disrespectful to say "thou" to someone in England.
 

Orbis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,335
UK
Ðat would be "Ðe more you know", actually.

The letter thorn is only used for þings pronounces like this.

(Well, at least in Icelandic, where those two letters are still used.)
Apparently in Old English you could use Ð and þ interchangeably, but yes technically 'the' and 'thread' have a different 'th' sound which the letters thorn and eth deal with respectively.
 

mausterhunter

Member
Feb 1, 2019
1,646
Ironically, while "thou" is considered stuffy and proper and fancy today, it was actually considered the informal, casual second-person pronoun. Ye/you was originally plural only and considered the polite version to show respect. Thou mostly died out in the 1600s when it became to be considered rude and disrespectful to say "thou" to someone in England.
I was going to say this, too.
A memorable thou-based insult from the time being "I thou thee, thou traitor!"
 

Toma

Scratching that Itch.io http://bit.ly/ItchERA
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,831
I... studied english language for 5 years and never knew. I just told my girlfriend who studied the same and... never knew. You just blew our minds.
 

Irminsul

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,033
Ironically, while "thou" is considered stuffy and proper and fancy today, it was actually considered the informal, casual second-person pronoun. Ye/you was originally plural only and considered the polite version to show respect. Thou mostly died out in the 1600s when it became to be considered rude and disrespectful to say "thou" to someone in England.
Wait, so in contrast to all other languages which had that differentiation (or still have it), it's the informal version that has died out?

How very British.