Yakuza: Like a Dragon (high framerate mode) - 1440p/60FPS Series X == 900p/60FPS Series S via Dragon Engine

Deleted member 13077 · Oct 13, 2020

Given my Series S will be hooked up to a 1080p tv anyway, 900/60 is absolutely fine by me.

To me, these consoles are only a stopgap anyway for another couple of years or so until we know just how serious MS are about the idea of incremental upgrades. If they're upgrading the Series S/X to the Series 2S/2X in 2023 or sooner, then any lack of 4K/60 won't be a problem for long.

MekaMachine · Oct 13, 2020

NekoNeko said:
People with Series S preorder should probably think about upgrading to a X.
Mid to late gen will be rouuuughhhh.

asagami_ said:
Believe me, people who are interested are very aware resolution/graphical effects may be hit, but in my case I don't care because at least look like Series S will have similar performance than to Series X. In the worst case, I kinda expect 720p games someday, but at least they will be still next-gen and with decent performance.

He says this because 1080p TVs are already phased out and 85+% of people are going to have a 4k tv by 2023. I don't know how familiar you are with the upscaling tech but 720p looks like absolute garbage on a 4k screen, it literally has to magically create nearly 90% of its pixels from the other 10%. This is going to be exponentially worse with the upscaling tech on the cheap $200-300 dollar TVs that people that are likely to buy series S are most likely to have.

Snake Eater · Oct 13, 2020

Yeah series S is definitely a mistake and will hold things back, but 900p for a new console in 2020 isn't acceptable

MekaMachine · Oct 13, 2020

Feorax said:
Given my Series S will be hooked up to a 1080p tv anyway, 900/60 is absolutely fine by me.

To me, these consoles are only a stopgap anyway for another couple of years or so until we know just how serious MS are about the idea of incremental upgrades. If they're upgrading the Series S/X to the Series 2S/2X in 2023 or sooner, then any lack of 4K/60 won't be a problem for long.

It seems absolutley ludicrous to expect people that are buying a "budget console" to try and save 100 bucks will be able to fork up 300 dollars more in 3 years for a new console.

Anyone buying a series S in 2020 for financial reasons is making a serious mistake, unless they truly plan to not buy a 4k tv or a new console within the next 4 years at all. if you expect to have that much money soon then why tf are you making so many compromises to save on 100 bucks??

Reckheim · Oct 13, 2020

MekaMachine said:
It seems absolutley ludicrous to expect people that are buying a "budget console" to try and save 100 bucks will be able to fork up 300 dollar more in 3 years for a new console.

Anyone buying a series S in 2020 for financial reasons is making a serious mistake, unless they truly plan to not buy a 4k tv or a new console within the next 4 years at all. if you expect to have that much money soon than why tf are you making so many compromises to save on 100 bucks??

100% agree, people should (if they can) save the extra $200 for a couple of months and buy the series X.

To be quite honest, I fully expect RT to be completely missing from most of the games on it; which in my opinion will be the biggest game changer next gen.

Bunkles · Oct 13, 2020

Snake Eater said:
Yeah series S is definitely a mistake and will hold things back, but 900p for a new console in 2020 isn't acceptable

It's going to be interesting how low the resolution ends up going on some of these games when real next gen games start getting made. 540p?

Deleted member 13077 · Oct 13, 2020

MekaMachine said:
It seems absolutley ludicrous to expect people that are buying a "budget console" to try and save 100 bucks will be able to fork up 300 dollars more in 3 years for a new console.

Anyone buying a series S in 2020 for financial reasons is making a serious mistake, unless they truly plan to not buy a 4k tv or a new console within the next 4 years at all. if you expect to have that much money soon then why tf are you making so many compromises to save on 100 bucks??

1. Because the big exclusives aren't due to hit for another couple of years anyway.

2. I'm getting a PS5 already, this gives me an opportunity to have at least some level of next gen performance on the Xbox side.

3. It's hooked up to the TV in the bedroom which is 1080p anyway.

4. You're not forking out $300 more in 3 years if you're using all access.

If MS are really serious about incremental upgrades and are genuinely looking to put out a brand new box around the time all of their studios projects come to fruition, then investing in a Series X could be the biggest false economy ever. We don't know though, so we need to wait and see.

aisback · Oct 13, 2020

This is pretty impressive.

The Dragon engine did chug on the PS4 Pro when I played Yakuza 6

Vinc · Oct 13, 2020

Just Yakuza being Yakuza. At this point I'm more disappointed the studio couldn't get their engine to run better on next-gen than I am in the specs of the console lol.

MCD · Oct 13, 2020

MekaMachine said:
It seems absolutley ludicrous to expect people that are buying a "budget console" to try and save 100 bucks will be able to fork up 300 dollars more in 3 years for a new console.

Anyone buying a series S in 2020 for financial reasons is making a serious mistake, unless they truly plan to not buy a 4k tv or a new console within the next 4 years at all. if you expect to have that much money soon then why tf are you making so many compromises to save on 100 bucks??

Shape is a good compromise to throw this as a secondary tv/light gaming console or for the kids.

Kids don't need 12tf 4kg monster @500 usd.

JFoul · Oct 13, 2020

1440p @30 and 900p @60 seems fine for the series S.

Snake Eater · Oct 13, 2020

Bunkles said:
It's going to be interesting how low the resolution ends up going on some of these games when real next gen games start getting made. 540p?

exactly, tradeoffs are going to be massive

Kinthey · Oct 13, 2020

ghostcrew said:
Series X: 4K/30, 1440p/60
Series S: 1440p/30, 900p/60

This seems to be exactly in line with the Series S marketing pitch

It scales the 4k of the series X to 1440p. When the series X scales down resolution to bump the fps, it does the same

MekaMachine · Oct 13, 2020

Feorax said:
2. I'm getting a PS5 already, this gives me an opportunity to have at least some level of next gen performance on the Xbox side.

MCD said:
Shape is a good compromise to throw this as a secondary tv/light gaming console or for the kids.

Kids don't need 12tf 4kg monster @500 usd.

This is true, its an excellent option for a second console, or a console to combine with pc.

As a sole player though its clearly subpar.

NekoNeko · Oct 13, 2020

Reckheim said:
100% agree, people should (if they can) save the extra $200 for a couple of months and buy the series X.

To be quite honest, I fully expect RT to be completely missing from most of the games on it; which in my opinion will be the biggest game changer next gen.

honestly if finances are this thight you can't save up $200 to upgrade to an X i wonder why you want to buy a next gen console at launch (that has no real exclusives) anyway. makes no sense to me. especially with the S having no disc drive.

even if i planned to keep playing on a 1080p for years and only play game pass games i think the performance upgrades are worth waiting and saving up a bit.

MekaMachine · Oct 13, 2020

NekoNeko said:
honestly if finances are this thight you can't save up $200 to upgrade to an X i wonder why you want to buy a next gen console at launch (that has no real exclusives) anyway. makes no sense to me. especially with the S having no disc drive.

even if i planned to keep playing on a 1080p for years and only play game pass games i think the performance upgrades are worth waiting and saving up a bit.

What truly boggles my mind are the people "upgrading" from a One X by preordering a Series S. Just... why?

ghostcrew · Oct 13, 2020

MekaMachine said:
What truly boggles my mind are the people "upgrading" from a One X by preordering a Series S. Just... why?

I mean, if we use Yakuza 7 as an example (which seems apt considering the thread), the Series S is a clear upgrade over the One X? You're locked at 1080p on One X/PS4 Pro. The Series S gets 1440p.

How is that not an upgrade? Not to mention a next gen exclusive 60fps performance mode and SSD loading times.

The Real Napsta · Oct 13, 2020

Ambient said:
Fuck I'm getting a Series S but I'm worried about how it will be performing come 2022 when real exclusives start hitting.

If you only need 1080p out of the machine, i wouldnt worry about it.

Reckheim · Oct 13, 2020

ghostcrew said:
I mean, if we use Yakuza 7 as an example (which seems apt considering the thread), the Series S is a clear upgrade over the One X? You're locked at 1080p on One X/PS4 Pro. The Series S gets 1440p.

How is that not an upgrade?

would you consider that a generational upgrade? I certainly wouldn't.

going from 1080p to 1440p is the absolute bare minimum I would expect.

ghostcrew · Oct 13, 2020

Reckheim said:
would you consider that a generational upgrade? I certainly wouldn't.

going from 1080p to 1440p is the absolute bare minimum I would expect.

For £249, the same price as the One S? £100 cheaper than the One X and PS4 Pro? Yeah, sure. It's a 1440p machine. Why are you buying it if 1440p is the bare minimum you'd expect.

Bulby · Oct 13, 2020

The S will be fine. The Yakuza games are hardly an indication of well optimised next gen games.

But please, lets not let a moment of forethought get in the way of FUD.

Chackan · Oct 13, 2020

caiocmsouza said:
Your pc costs a more than an xsx, why compare it with xss?

It was a joke :P

FIREKNIGHT2029 · Oct 13, 2020

900p and the console hasn't even launched yet? Oof!

regenhuber · Oct 13, 2020

For a Yakuza fan like me, a Dragon Engine game at 60fps sound like a great deal.

It will feel fucking weird to play a Yakuza game on Xbox but I will get it on XSX, not waiting till March to play on PS5.

KanameYuuki · Oct 13, 2020

I hope this isn't a peak at what Series S will do and that games perform 1080p/60 bare minimum, it is about time after calling these the "HD" consoles. I'm exited about Series S but this + no drive and a SSD that could be 3XXGB doesn't look enticing at all. But I'm glad that even the base console has a performance mode, every game should have it now.

chandoog · Oct 13, 2020

MekaMachine said:
What truly boggles my mind are the people "upgrading" from a One X by preordering a Series S. Just... why?

I mean ... one of those two consoles will get games for the next 5 to 7 years .. the other has already been discontinued ..

Also, to play the devils advocate (while I am also somewhat disappointed they couldn't reach 1080p/60), the 30 FPS mode runs at 1440p. A notable upgrade from the PS4 Pro or Xbox X.

MekaMachine · Oct 13, 2020

ghostcrew said:
For £249, the same price as the One S? £100 cheaper than the One X and PS4 Pro? Yeah, sure. It's a 1440p machine. Why are you buying it if 1440p is the bare minimum you'd expect.

We've already discussed this on this very page. The series s affordability doesn't justify its performance.
I don't want to get in a feedback loop of "its so bad" -> "but its cheap" ->"but its so so bad who cares if its that cheap?" -> "no shit its bad its cheap"

ghostcrew said:
I mean, if we use Yakuza 7 as an example (which seems apt considering the thread), the Series S is a clear upgrade over the One X? You're locked at 1080p on One X/PS4 Pro. The Series S gets 1440p.

How is that not an upgrade? Not to mention a next gen exclusive 60fps performance mode and SSD loading times.

And I seriously can't believe you're justifying someone spending 300 dollars to upgrade from a one x to a series s. Like you're earnestly trying to say that this a worthwhile upgrade.

Again, this is what boggles my mind.

MekaMachine · Oct 13, 2020

chandoog said:
I mean ... one of those two consoles will get games for the next 5 to 7 years .. the other has already been discontinued ..

Also, to play the devils advocate (while I am also somewhat disappointed they couldn't reach 1080p/60), the 30 FPS mode runs at 1440p. A notable upgrade from the PS4 Pro or Xbox X.

I really don't know how I can explain any more simply that upgrading from a console that will still be supported for the next few years to a barely more powerful console for 300 dollars the day it releases, with no new games, is a bad idea.

Like I don't know how else to pose it, who cares if the one x has been discontinued, why is that reason to buy a series s instead of series x???

ghostcrew · Oct 13, 2020

MekaMachine said:
Like I don't know how else to pose it, who cares if the one x has been discontinued, why is that reason to buy a series s instead of series x???

MCD · Oct 13, 2020

MekaMachine said:
We've already discussed this on this very page. The series s affordability doesn't justify its performance.
I don't want to get in a feedback loop of "its so bad" -> "but its cheap" ->"but its so so bad who cares if its that cheap?" -> "no shit its bad its cheap"

And I seriously can't believe you're justifying someone spending 300 dollars to upgrade from a one x to a series s. Like you're earnestly trying to say that this a worthwhile upgrade.

Again, this is what boggles my mind.

It's a worthwhile upgrade because sooner or later, last gen (One X) pathetic Jaguar CPU won't be supported.

So the choice is: do you have money? Go Series X. Do you not have enough? Series S.

We are in a global pandemic after all.

bes.gen · Oct 13, 2020

MekaMachine said:
What truly boggles my mind are the people "upgrading" from a One X by preordering a Series S. Just... why?

i don't think there are many people like that actually, you would be moving from the best performing console last gen to worst for next gen.
doesn't seem like they cater to same demographic.

chandoog · Oct 13, 2020

MekaMachine said:
I really don't know how I can explain any more simply that upgrading from a console that will still be supported for the next few years to a barely more powerful console for 300 dollars the day it releases, with no new games, is a bad idea.

Like I don't know how else to pose it, who cares if the one x has been discontinued, why is that reason to buy a series s instead of series x???

I understand what you're saying, but the way you're wording it makes it sound like the Series S is just another XBO variant, but it's a whole new generation of console.

Yakuza 7 doesn't seem like it's using much (or any) or the heavily advertised Velocity Architecture. No VRS, no RT, no Direct ML (their version of DLSS) etc.

Once those features (especially VRS and Direct ML) start becoming more common, the Series S should stay competitive with the Series X, which is something the XBX just simply cannot do.

MekaMachine · Oct 13, 2020

ghostcrew said:

If you have a One X and you're poor, and you decide to use your limited funds to buy a Series S in 2020 when you already have a One X? That may just be the worst financial decision I've and probably anyone else has ever heard in their life.

You posting a picture doesn't change that.

MekaMachine · Oct 13, 2020

bes.gen said:
i don't think there are many people like that actually, you would be moving from the best performing console last gen to worst for next gen.
doesn't seem like they cater to same demographic.

You say this, but I get bombarded by people in this very thread saying that its not a bad upgrade lmaooo.

regenhuber · Oct 13, 2020

Bulby said:
The S will be fine. The Yakuza games are hardly an indication of well optimised next gen games.

But please, lets not let a moment of forethought get in the way of FUD.

Some posts in this thread man.....
Feels like many aren't even aware that the game released in January for PS4 in JP.

MekaMachine said:
And I seriously can't believe you're justifying someone spending 300 dollars to upgrade from a one x to a series s. Like you're earnestly trying to say that this a worthwhile upgrade.

Again, this is what boggles my mind.

I also wouldn't do it and/or advise anyone to do it. It's still an updgrade.
And honestly (not directed at you personally), it's sometimes boggles my mind how entitled and elitist posters on Era can sound.

200€ is a ton of money. Xbox offers a lower spec option to save 200€ with the Series S. Let's not act like everybody has the choice. Some people don't own 4K TVs, others live in regions where wages are low and gaming is expensive.

AppleBlade · Oct 13, 2020

MekaMachine said:
What truly boggles my mind are the people "upgrading" from a One X by preordering a Series S. Just... why?

Here are 8 reasons why I don't this notion is all that crazy.

1. This game runs better on Series S (1080p30 on One X and 1440p30 on Series S).
2. Series S will have the super quick load times that everyone is raving about.
3. Series S is smaller and more power efficient.
4. Series S has support for newer graphical features like Ray Tracing and RDNA2's 4/8 bit integer upscaling
5. Stock Series S controller has several improvements over the stock One X controller.
6. Series S has all of the sound upgrades (3D Spatial Audio) of the series X.
7. At $299 the sale of a One X actually covers a big portion of the price. Gamestop of all places is giving you $200 for a One X.
8. More importantly it will actually get next gen games on it.

CloudsFromSpace · Oct 13, 2020

I think part of the issue some people are having seems to stem from a set of expectations surrounding what constitutes "next gen." Games these days have less defined look and feel than ever before. If say, a Cuphead sequel comes out in 2023, exclusively for XSX/S, is that a "next gen" game? Is it more or less "next gen" than the next Naughty Dog project?

You see this phenomenon on the PC side, where games are just games, and hardware is just hardware, with no particularly significant demarcation between "generations;" it's one continuous whole. Microsoft's console strategy somewhat embraces that idea. There is no defined "next gen," there are just upgrades of various significance.

So for them, the question isn't "Does our machine push Yakuza 7 into the 'next gen?'" it's "Does our machine make Yakuza 7 a better experience? Is it an upgrade?"

The answer to the first question is definitely no, because no feasible machine can overcome every engine limitation. But the answer to the second question is undoubtedly yes.

And if a day comes when the S can't keep up, they'll just fill the gap with cloud streaming. This is all part of their strategy of decoupling games from specific dedicated hardware.

MekaMachine · Oct 13, 2020

regenhuber said:
Some posts in this thread man.....
200€ is a ton of money. Xbox offers a lower spec option to save 200€ with the Series S. Let's not act like everybody has the choice. Some people don't own 4K TVs, others live in regions where wages are low and gaming is expensive.

It is a ton of money 100%, which is precisely why someone who is struggling with money at the moment(as I'm sure many people are) would be worst served by buying a Series S. People are literally defending its performance by saying there may be a refresh later, expecting these struggling people to have in total spent $600 on consoles from 2020-2023.

Wait for the refresh if youre low on disposable income rn!! If you really want to game then save some money and use xcloud until the refresh comes out.

Bulby · Oct 13, 2020

regenhuber said:
Some posts in this thread man.....
Feels like many aren't even aware that the game released in January for PS4 in JP.

Thats not the point. The point is, that its a terrible example to judge the Series S by. What happens if they show off Gears 5 at 120fps in the next couple of weeks. A game that is demonstrably better looking.

MekaMachine · Oct 13, 2020

AppleBlade said:
Here are 8 reasons why I don't this notion is all that crazy.

1. This game runs better on Series S (1080p30 on One X and 1440p30 on Series S).
2. Series S will have the super quick load times that everyone is raving about.
3. Series S is smaller and more power efficient.
4. Series S has support for newer graphical features like Ray Tracing and RDNA2's 4/8 bit integer upscaling
5. Stock Series S controller has several improvements over the stock One X controller.
6. Series S has all of the sound upgrades (3D Spatial Audio) of the series X.
7. At $299 the sale of a One X actually covers a big portion of the price. Gamestop of all places is giving you $200 for a One X.
8. More importantly it will actually get next gen games on it.

The $200 gamestop trade in deal actually changes my thinking on this a lot, 100 dollars would be a good upgrade for that if you scrounge it up and then you can eventually get a series x or ps5.
I still don't think its worth it for 300 dollars.

alphacat · Oct 13, 2020

in this thread: lots of people underestimating how demanding the dragon engine is

i mean, even the xsx is not doing 4K60 for a last gen game

Bulby said:
Thats not the point. The point is, that its a terrible example to judge the Series S by. What happens if they show off Gears 5 at 120fps in the next couple of weeks. A game that is demonstrably better looking.

agreed

MekaMachine · Oct 13, 2020

Bulby said:
Thats not the point. The point is, that its a terrible example to judge the Series S by. What happens if they show off Gears 5 at 120fps in the next couple of weeks. A game that is demonstrably better looking.

I feel like you're both saying the same thing.

A game that came out over a year ago for last gen consoles that has had a long time to optimize is going to be less demanding than gears 5 for sure.

Deleted member 7051 · Oct 13, 2020

I don't have a 4K TV and I'm very unlikely to get one, so all I care about is that the Series S has the same framerate and graphics as the Series X. It actual resolution is itself largely irrelevant.

So I'm totally fine with playing this at 900p60. That's undoubtedly a huge improvement over my PS4 or Xbox One. I didn't upgrade either to the PS4 Pro or the Xbox One X so I'm sure I'm in for a treat.

Deleted member 11008 · Oct 13, 2020

ghostcrew said:

Seriously lol I just want a entry machine for the Xbox ecosystem. It's a shame about the lack of disk drive, but the more I think about the Series S I know I want it. Right now I'm just waiting to know (and watch) the performance for Sekiro, MHW and DMC V SE so I can decide get one.

pg2g · Oct 13, 2020

KanameYuuki said:
I hope this isn't a peak at what Series S will do and that games perform 1080p/60 bare minimum, it is about time after calling these the "HD" consoles. I'm exited about Series S but this + no drive and a SSD that could be 3XXGB doesn't look enticing at all. But I'm glad that even the base console has a performance mode, every game should have it now.

The XSS performance scales relative to XSX, so if a game targets 1440p on XSX its going to be sub-1080p on S.

This was always the expectation.

IIFloodyII · Oct 13, 2020

FacelessSamurai said:
I do believe that the Dragon Engine is severely hampering what is possible on Series X though considering they were only pushing 1080p on PS4 Pro and that machine should be capable of much more. I don't know why devs don't switch over to a more common engine like UE4 as we know that would give much better results in the long run.

It'd cost them a lot more than it's worth, as they'd need to remake all their assets (incredibly important for a studio like RGG Studio, would set them back years), learn a new engine, modify and add stuff so it can actually offer all the different things a Yakuza game does or just cut them giving them worse results (already happened with Dragon Engine) and I believe EPIC charge royalties per game, per x amount it makes, per quarter, and when you release at least 1 game a year (sometimes 3) it can get pretty expensive for what is ultimately a niche series. UE is a great engine, but not a tailor made one for every game.

Ushay · Oct 13, 2020

I'd say that's pretty good given that Yakuza uses none of the RDNA 2 efficiencies. Its always been a laborious engine.

Look to other games for what can really be achieved. Series S is still phenomenal value.

Indy_Rex · Oct 13, 2020

... Are people seriously trying to justify people spending money on the S as a worthwhile upgrade over the One X? Are y'all insane?

No, no it's not a worthwhile upgrade. You're spending $300 more for little-to-no improvement. And no it's not about cost either: Don't buy a Series S at launch if you've got a One X. It's 10000% not worth it, just save up the extra $200 over the next 4-5 months and buy an XSX ffs... it's a literal waste of money to buy an S over a One X. "But longevity" is a bad argument... you're literally spending $300 right now instead of saving an extra $200 in a few months to get performance that's at best slightly above what you already have... you can absolutely wait.

The Series S isn't a One X replacement, it's an entry-level unit for new consumers and/or an extra "Series" console for your household, it's a horrible value if you've already got last gen's best XB console.

Dictator · Oct 13, 2020

Theswweet said:
I feel like it's important information to note that games like Yakuza Kiwami 2 ran at 1080p/30 FPS on PS4 Pro... 900p/60 isn't too strange considering the Series S's specs, honestly. It's all about context.

Nice reasonable take. This engine targets low framerate and res on current gen pro machines - so it is "heavy".

RayTracing · Oct 13, 2020

Atolm said:
Dragon Engine is a piece of garbage, news at 11.

I wouldn't call it garbage, probably good as a benchmark engine, but that's about it LMAO!

Yakuza: Like a Dragon (high framerate mode) - 1440p/60FPS Series X == 900p/60FPS Series S via Dragon Engine

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