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RPGamer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,435
It has, the Torna the Golden Country engine, which itself was a clear upgrade from the base Xenoblade 2 engine.

Or the current engine of the Studio in it's current state, they will not have stopped developing it/optimzing it for Switch after torna.

In Torna – The Golden Country, we're using a new engine to render the game. While we're still in the transitional period of refining it for use in future games, the differences are still slightly noticeable.

I would agree that they use a more modern engine for the remake. In the scene where Shulk lies in the grass and looks at the dragon-fly you can see a similiar effect to the "colour bleeding into environment" effect that surrounded Torna characters (perhaps to simulate a depht of field effect), just more decent and perhaps more refined. You see it on Shulks cheek and the Dragon-Fly. Also the lighting and shaders remind me of Torna quite a bit, although they use less flashy colours etc.

But didn't Monolith retool the rendering pipeline for Torna? I thought that meant performance would be better. Is that not the case?

They are developing the engine for future games and yes Torna used a bit more modern variant. Performance was better and i think resolution in handheldmode was a bit better, but not by much. That doesn't mean too much for this game though as i doubt they stopped optimizing the engine. We will have to wait and see though.
 

RPGamer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,435
Well, yes obviously. I meant that it isn't just using the old XB2 engine but it has stuff only in Torna which is the only reference point.


True. I just wanted to expand on that, because we could hopefully see slightly better performance or better resolution if the engine is further optimized for Switch
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,293
Well the screenshots on the Nintendo website are 720p and also look soft, so they probably still have to do the bulk of the optimization
 
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TheGreatLugia

TheGreatLugia

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,078
I would agree that they use a more modern engine for the remake. In the scene where Shulk lies in the grass and looks at the dragon-fly you can see a similiar effect to the "colour bleeding into environment" effect that surrounded Torna characters (perhaps to simulate a depht of field effect), just more decent and perhaps more refined. You see it on Shulks cheek and the Dragon-Fly.
I didn't notice that detail. Good observation.

latest

Switch_XenobladeChronicles-Definitive_01.jpg
 

bangai-o

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,527
Is this game easy to jump back into after not playing for a few months? I like BoTW because I dont have to remember what I was doing before. Is Xenoblade similar in that way?
 

RPGamer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,435
Well the screenshots on the Nintendo website are 720p and also look soft, so they probably still have to do the bulk of the optimization

Could be possible they still go with 720p docked but we don't know as the game is still in development. At least I hope the undocked version will be a bit more stable and perhaps around 540p or 600p at least.

I would just call it a repaint?


Imo its a bit more than a repaint when they redo models and environment/buildings etc.. Even the smaller mechons on the bridge have a few more poylgons.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,293
Could be possible they still go with 720p docked but we don't know as the game is still in development. At least I hope the undocked version will be a bit more stable and perhaps around 540p or 600p at least.




Imo its a bit more than a repaint when they redo models and environment/buildings etc.. Even the smaller mechons on the bridge have a few more poylgons.
At the end of the day there's only so much they can do without completely remaking the game, it would be really really weird if this game was as graphically intensive as Xenoblade 2
 

SiG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,485
It's not definitive, far from it, but given those numbers and the the fact that the top hits are literally "Does this game not have surround sound", "PSA for everyone hoping to play in surround sound", "Surround Sound? : Xenoblade_Chronicles" [plus a list of disgruntled threads on the theme], "List of Wii U games that support 5.1 surround (with a post complaining about Xenoblade flagged up)", "Can we talk about the lack of surround sound in some switch games" [from... Resetera] and so on, it would take a special kind of stupid for someone to deny that this is something that can be detrimental to many people's enjoyment of a game.
From what I understand, Switch and WiiU both use Linear PCM for Surround Sound, and thus require you to use an HDMI passthrough feature for your home theater.
Is this just a straight-up remake?
Seem more like an Enhanced Remaster with cut content from the original release re-intigrated.

Cutscenes seem to have been improved/animation reworked a bit to make use of full eye expressions and new models have been integrated, but it's clear it's using most of the original models as base since cutscenes have the same identical camera angle.

At this point it's waaaaay too early to tell given the brief snippet of footage and 2020 release date.
 

Master Chuuster

GamingBolt.com
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Dec 14, 2017
2,649

Hucast

alt account
Banned
Mar 25, 2019
3,598
Could be possible they still go with 720p docked but we don't know as the game is still in development. At least I hope the undocked version will be a bit more stable and perhaps around 540p or 600p at least.




Imo its a bit more than a repaint when they redo models and environment/buildings etc.. Even the smaller mechons on the bridge have a few more poylgons.
So I guess we call it a remake then? I actually came up with that myself
 

SiG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,485
Yes.

No matter how much some people want to say otherwise.
Remake implies you are overhauling the entire system and mechanics of the game.

The battle system in Xenoblade Chronicles plays much, much differently from Xenoblade Chronicles 2. They have similarities, but 2 is very reliant on the Blades and switching out between them.

Unless they are redoing the entire battle system from scratch to resemble that of XC2, it's a remaster. If they do decide to tweak the battle system to be more of a button-based input, then you would be walking into Remake territory.
 

Master Chuuster

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Dec 14, 2017
2,649
Remake implies you are overhauling the entire system and mechanics of the game.
Not necessarily. Conservative recreations like Shadow of the Colossus or Spyro/Crash/Crash Team are still remakes, even though they don't make core mechanical changes. I think it's more a question of if the game is building everything from the ground up, or using older work as jumping-off point.

Hard to say anymore though, when we've got, say, Activision calling the aforementioned Crash/Spyro/Crash Team remasters instead of remakes.
 

TheMoon

|OT|
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Oct 25, 2017
18,777
Video Games
Is this game easy to jump back into after not playing for a few months? I like BoTW because I dont have to remember what I was doing before. Is Xenoblade similar in that way?
Yes, out of all the Xenoblades, this is the one, because it actually has a menu feature that lets you re-read all those tutorial pop-ups when new mechanics unlock. And it's not overburdened with systems upon systems.

Remake implies you are overhauling the entire system and mechanics of the game.
Not really. It can be part of a remake but it's never been a prerequisite.
 

RockmanBN

Visited by Knack - One Winged Slayer
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Oct 25, 2017
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Cornfields
What does Crash count as? Or even KH1 HD which remade from the ground up due to losing the source code.
 

RPGamer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,435
At the end of the day there's only so much they can do without completely remaking the game, it would be really really weird if this game was as graphically intensive as Xenoblade 2

I think it will look very good in the end, with perhaps less effects, perhaps not as funky grass and perhaps some things that don't look as good and colourful in detail (the games has originally more earthtones), but the games "titans"/areas are huge and the switch needs it's power to give us a good drawdistance/ viewdistance either way. I think the game could impress some people in the end but we have to see more footage.

The trailer from Nintendo on Switch has a better quality than youtube, if people want to rewatch it. Oh, an i hope Reyn is just a placeholder at this moment. His face looks really dumb and much worse than Shulks new face.


Is this just a straight-up remake?

They build upon the old work but reworked and changed it quite a bit, as far as i see in almost every aspect. Probably a new engine, more polygons on as far as i can see almost everything, some environment details got changed, different shaders on the water,, different lighting system and different effects. And obviously better textures.

I don't really care how people call it, in my book they took Xenoblade and put it on Switch so that it looks like a modern Switchgame. I'm sure it will look better than many Switchexclusive games in the end (Fire Emblem for example). If it delivers the gigantic views i expect, it could look better than Xenoblade 2 in some places even with less effects etc. (what do they help if the game looks blurry or bad 30 metres away from your character...)

If it's a remaster it's a good remaster :)
 
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Dark Cloud

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
61,087
This concern about if it's a remaster or remake will be in future Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition topics I can see.
 

Kupo Kupopo

Member
Jul 6, 2019
2,959
I don't really care how people call it, in my book they took Xenoblade and put it on Switch so that it looks like a modern Switchgame. I'm sure it will look better than many Switchexclusive games in the end (Fire Emblem for example). If it delivers the gigantic views i expect, it could look better than Xenoblade 2 in some places even with less effects etc. (what do they help if the game looks blurry or bad 30 metres away from your character...)

If it's a remaster it's a good remaster :)

i'm with him. so happy to hear this's coming...
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,179
Just curious, what would you call something like Pokemon FireRed/LeafGreen (or the Gen 2 and Gen 3 counterparts)?

It's not actually a confusing issue. A game is only a remake if the game is actually remade (eg, not based on the original code). The Pokemon remakes qualify because they aren't gameboy games ported over to the GBA/DS. Xenoblade Definitive Edition is clearly an enhanced port built on the original's base. It just looks more enhanced than most ports.
 

Toad King

Member
Oct 27, 2017
940
Chicago
This is still obviously a work in progress. If you look at the scene with Shulk running across the bridge there are no shadows on any of the models, not even the faint circle shadows you see in the Wii version of the same scene.

That said it still looks amazing even at this stage.
 

RPGamer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,435
It's not actually a confusing issue. A game is only a remake if the game is actually remade (eg, not based on the original code). The Pokemon remakes qualify because they aren't gameboy games ported over to the GBA/DS. Xenoblade Definitive Edition is clearly an enhanced port built on the original's base. It just looks more enhanced than most ports.


And if it uses a new Engine and reworked code? They obviously used the old work as starting point and want to be true to the original, while enhancing probably everything. I would just say lets wait and see, if they also change animations, how Shulk runs and is playable i will call it a remake or Super Remaster.^^

This concern about if it's a remaster or remake will be in future Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition topics I can see.


I can live with that when thinking about the Xenoblade 2 OT.
 

SiG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,485
I guess we really won't know for sure about this Definitve Edition's Remaster/Remake status until they show us the Battle System.

For all we know it could've been overhauled to integrate the lessons Monolithsoft learned from XCX/XC2.
 

Kcannon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,661
No they aren't. They are remasters too.

There are degrees of remaster.

Nope. Remakes.

They don't share most of the code as the original games. That's what remakes entail. Built from the ground up, i.e "made again".

Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask 3D are remakes as well. Completely new models and textures despite little gameplay changes.
 

Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,048
Melbourne, Australia
Just curious, what would you call something like Pokemon FireRed/LeafGreen (or the Gen 2 and Gen 3 counterparts)?
They are remakes.
These are all remakes man, a remaster is just the original with some touch up on the textures and higher resolution.
An example of a remake is the upcoming Trials of Mana - essentially a brand new game that is quite literally a remake of an earlier work. Whereas in Xenoblade Definitive Edition's case, they are very clearly improving aspects of the original - i.e they are remastering the work. And as I've said before, there are obviously going to be degrees of this. A game that just has some texture work done along with a resolution/framerate increase is a remaster, as is something like this where they're going the extra mile and updating models as well.

It's all there in the names, so I have never understood why there's so much confusion on this.

Nope. Remakes.

They don't share most of the code as the original games. That's what remakes entail. Built from the ground up, i.e "made again".

Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask 3D are remakes as well. Completely new models and textures despite little gameplay changes.
Nah, all of those examples do share most of the code. That's literally the key distinction.

Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask 3D are absolutely remasters. They've taken the original game and remastered various elements. A recent example of a game that has new models and textures despite little gameplay changes is Final Fantasy VIII Remastered.

Wind Waker HD is also a remaster. It has completely different lighting, QOL improvements and even tweaks to the core experience. Pretty sure the Toon Link model is even new as well. But this was all tweaking the original game, and it only took six months to develop.
 

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
Another colony, IIRC the houses in the shoulder have a really different architecture style so maybe it's not even a homs colony, but I don't know.

So far it looks like a huge improvement while keeping the same environmental art. Some areas I really want to see remastered are:

-Satorul: During the day it's a bad-looking area
-Tephra cave: Another boring area, a huge increase in geometry should be enough to make it look more like a cave and less like random corridors
-Valak: Same as Satorul, during the day is boring

Weren't the shoulder people supposed to be the Giants that Zanza based his body off of?
 

Zero-ELEC

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,562
México
Do we know if Xenoblade 2 uses the same engine as the original Xenoblade? Because it doesn't matter what y'all calling it, if it's a seperate codebase that's being used shit's a remake.

Nope. Remakes.

They don't share most of the code as the original games. That's what remakes entail. Built from the ground up, i.e "made again".

Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask 3D are remakes as well. Completely new models and textures despite little gameplay changes.
Ocarina of Time 3D and Majora's Mask 3D still use the same codebase as the original games, sharing many quirks and glitches. They're the definitions of "remasters".
 

DXB-KNIGHT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,187
Shulk (voice-over): Then two great titans came into existance: the Remakeonis and the Remasteronis.
Shulk (voice-over): The titans were locked in a timeless battle.
 

SiG

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,485
Do we know if Xenoblade 2 uses the same engine as the original Xenoblade? Because it doesn't matter what y'all calling it, if it's a seperate codebase that's being used shit's a remake.
Xenoblade 2 not only uses a different codebase, but also a different battle system than XC1.