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Nightbird

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,780
Germany
Never ever have I felt so conflicted on a piece of media as I felt on Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

Let's start with the positives:

- The world of Alrest is beautiful and a great place to explore.
- The soundtrack is a banger with tons of amazing pieces of music.
- The story, as cheesy as it is, is still very enjoyable and fun!
- The cast, especially the main cast is lovable and great.

There's more, but since we're on the topic of characters, this is where I need to bridge over to my negatives.
Because as much as I'm in love with the characters, they alone are responsible for everything I hate about the game.

To put it bluntly, it's the objectification of female characters that grinds my gears.
I'll tackle the elephant in the room right away, among the worst offenders are the designs for our heroes, namely Pyra (red) and Mythra (white) :

2000
DQSbPcKW4AA7JSK.png

I'm gonna be fair and say when compared side by side, Mythras design is actually somewhat decent. However, both make it really tough to enjoy playing the game in public (well, that and the horrible resolution in handheld mode, but that's an entirely different issue).

I especially have an axe to grind with Pyras design. I'm sorry but what happend here? It's all over the place and then there's that one stripe of clothing covering the crotch area. It just looks bad and confusing. It's not even sexy to be honest, because let's be real: That's what the developers were going for here.

But not only our female heroes have been struck by the God of horrible design choices, our protagonist, Rex, has to suffer as well!:



I really don't think I have to explain this one. This is the second weirdest design for a JRPG character I've seen since Mr. Pizza cutter


Anyway, back to Rex. The game tried to explain his design by showing off its functionality as diving gear:


Now, this looks a lot better and kind of makes sense now?
But does it make the standard version of the design look good? The answer is no.


And this, ladies and gentlemen leads to my biggest gripe with this game.
As I said before, I am not a fan of how our girls (and our boy) look like. But in case of the girls, it's a bit worse and that bit is what made parts of the game really annoying. So much that I would have dropped other games for what it did.

The unnecessary tits and assshots that happen all over the game. There are a ton of scenes where you'd get camera shots unnecessarily focusing on the chest and our butts of the female characters, especially of those who wear revealing clothes.

It's something that quite a lot of games do, hell the Senran Kagura franchise is basically built on this concept, but why was it that it annoyed me so much in this particular game?

Because, and that's the ironic part, I love this game.
As I said before, I love basically everything about the game. From the world to the general asthetic to the story. But it's really jarring and annoying when the game tries do be less lighthearted and more serious for a bit, only for the camera to decide "now is the perfect moment for a panning ass-shot!".
Its the kind of stuff that makes me go "was that really necessary now?"
And the game is sadly filled with moments like these, where the game tries to make you focus on the "sexy" parts of the already questionable female character designs.


But, with all that said, I still love the game. Overall I can say that I really enjoyed playing it. It's just that the game itself sometimes can't decide whether it wants to be a great fantasy story or an or an playable ecchi-anime and this is my biggest disappointment with the game.


Would I still recommend this game to other people? Yes I would, and in fact I did recently recommend the game to a co-worker. But the fact that I had to inform him about the less desirable stuff saddens me and ultimately lead to the creation of this thread, because the game was so close to being a timeless classic and easy recommendation for me, just to fail about something so stupid.

And it's the fact that the game is stained like this that makes it the best game I simultaneously also hate.

TL:DR: Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is an amazing game that sabotages itself by occasionally forgetting that it's supposed to be a Fantasy JRPG and pretends to be a ecchi visual novel instead.
 

Mediking

Final Fantasy Best Boy (Grip)
Member
If only Nomura had designed Rex....

Rex is a scuba guy so his outfit makes sense but it looks bad.

Mythra's design is purely fanservice. Take it or leave it.. its up to you lol

Mythra's and Pyra's personality is great. Nia's personality is also top tier
 
OP
OP
Nightbird

Nightbird

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,780
Germany
If only Nomura had designed Rex....

Rex is a scuba guy so his outfit makes sense but it looks bad.

Mythra's design is purely fanservice. Take it or leave it.. its up to you lol

Mythra's and Pyra's personality is great. Nia's personality is also top tier

I agree with everything you said!

I just wish I could actually leave Mythra's design, but the game is like "are you sure you don't want to take it? Look at how sexy it is!", and that honestly annoys me a bit haha


You leave Luso out of this! :)


I'm gonna be honest with you, I've come around to somewhat loving the design after seeing it so much, but for the totally wrong reasons.
It feels like a miniature "where's Waldo" where everytime I look at it, I discover something new about it and that's hilarious to me haha :D
 

Vampirolol

Member
Dec 13, 2017
5,821
I share the same feeling, though not only for the things you pointed at, but especially for many gameplay decisions. Exploration in this game totally sucks compared to the other Xenos. Yet I love the game.
The DLC is simply on another level, it's among my favorite RPG's ever.
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,978
The designs, objectification, fanservice, etc are far from the only issues with this game. The game design is obviously unfinished with lots of conflicting mechanics and a woeful UI along with them.

We ended up with lots of neat ideas and lots of stupidity packaged into one single game because hey had to rush the release and didn't have the additional 6 to 12 months which would have been necessary to work out the game design and shape the story into something much more compelling than the inconsistent mess we were given.
 

Taruranto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,049
I mean, the art design is garbage, but I though this thread would have been more about stuff like the horrible menus or the terrible subsystems like field skills.
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,978
I mean, the art design is garbage, but I though this thread would have been more about stuff like the horrible menus or the terrible subsystems like field skills.
Yeah. I spent a lot of time with this game (thanks Switch's portability!) and there's a lot to love ... but there's also a lot to hate. And yeah, hate or despise are fair words in this case.
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
It's why I vastly prefer Torna and it's more subdued tone without the blatant fanservice over it. Mythra's design is obviously still a bit irksome but alas...
 

Yoshi88

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,128
I love Rex's design. It's typical JRPG but in a non-offensive way. I mean, Shulk doesn't look that much better, if you're honest (and i love Shulk, too).

I get the things about the girls, though. Shame, since the characters themselves are expetionally well done as is the whole cast imo. Best ensemble in years.
 

-shadow-

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,110
Honestly, I don't mind most of the designs, I find they hilariously over done to the point they've shot way past their goal of making them sexy and outright to the point of it being ridiculous. But it helps that the actual characters are (mostly) well written and really likeable. I'm curious if the game would've been this fanservice filled if Monolith had more internal people on board instead of having them all work on BOTW.
 

Radeo

Banned
Apr 26, 2019
1,305
I hated it for it's glacial pacing, cop out ending, Rex, gacha system, ridiculous blade proficiency grind, Rex, tedious field skills, Tiger Tiger grind, Rex

Once it gets going it's pretty great and I like most of the blade designs, especially the guns
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
It was ok, but seems like this series has been going downhill since the incredible first game. The character designs in this game, including most of the blades, are so uneven. I love the look of Morag and Brighid but then you see them in a cutscene next to Rex and Pyra and it's just like... Yikes.

Torna is even worse when Mythra stands out as a godawful design in a game with probably the best main cast designs I've seen in a long time.
 

EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,877
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
Yeah, this is a fair take. I really liked Xenoblade 2. It really felt like it was written like 80s anime, and the mechanical complexity had so much to offer to anyone who was willing to dig deep.

Unfortunately I think it's an aesthetic mess, and quite a number of the zany joke-scenes just didn't work for me. The game mixes quite a lot of different art styles, and it creates an inconsistent look that makes it harder to get used to. Normally if something looks weird, stupid or ugly, I can eventually accept that this is part of the "culture" of the game world, like in the other Xenoblade games, but that never happened for me in XBC2. Learning that the game had a large number of guest-designers made those pieces fall into place, but I still think that was a mistake. The camera direction was another thing that bugged me. Especially early on, the camera was really glued to T&A whenever it saw the opportunity, and it wasn't even sneaky about it. It was distracting, which is never a good thing.

The UI and UX were also a constant source of frustration. I can only imagine this part suffered because they were trying to stick to their release date, but releasing it in that state wasn't right. I heard they fixed it up a lot over time, but that means very little to someone who played it at launch. I didn't mind the gatcha stuff too much, though it was the sole reason I didn't attempt to 100% it.

Great JRPG, but I definitely agree that there was a lot to dislike.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,918
It was ok, but seems like this series has been going downhill since the incredible first game. The character designs in this game, including most of the blades, are so uneven. I love the look of Morag and Brighid but then you see them in a cutscene next to Rex and Pyra and it's just like... Yikes.

Isn't that because all the blades were designed by guest artists?

(I agree with you though. I don't like the inconsistency)
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
Also what the hell is with the 1-3 seconds of dead air between every spoken line in cutscenes. It's so baddd
 

Dizzy Ukulele

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,013
It didn't bother (or arouse) me on a personal level but I still lament the choice taken over some of the female designs because of the damage it has done to the reputation of a game that I enjoyed so much.
 

Capricorn

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
705
My favourite Switch game hands down, it took me a couple of chapters to get into it but once it gets going I really couldn't put it down or stop thinking about it for a long time! The last couple of chapters were absolutely bonkers plot-wise as someone that had never finished a Xeno game before, I didn't see some of the revelations coming at all (only played ~20 hours of Xenoblade 1).

I don't dislike any of the character designs, even though I can understand the criticism. I did definitely cringe at some fan service scenes though (specially early on with Tora...)

OP, you should really give the Torna DLC a go if you haven't already. It's like a more focused and smaller experience that really tones down the fan service and some issues with the field skills while still having an interesting story and great cast. Given your criticisms of this game, you may even enjoy it more than the base game!
 

Philippo

Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
7,913
Wish they made Nomura design the whole cast.

Also, i too love/hate XBC2, but also for thd crappy UI and the gacha mechanics that insult my free time.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
Lmao yeah I totally want some fucking gacha mechanics in my full priced game. What is their incentive to keep me playing for these random draws? I already paid the one time cost!!!
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,978
Yeah, this is a fair take. I really liked Xenoblade 2. It really felt like it was written like 80s anime, and the mechanical complexity had so much to offer to anyone who was willing to dig deep.

Unfortunately I think it's an aesthetic mess, and quite a number of the zany joke-scenes just didn't work for me. The game mixes quite a lot of different art styles, and it creates an inconsistent look that makes it harder to get used to. Normally if something looks weird, stupid or ugly, I can eventually accept that this is part of the "culture" of the game world, like in the other Xenoblade games, but that never happened for me in XBC2. Learning that the game had a large number of guest-designers made those pieces fall into place, but I still think that was a mistake. The camera direction was another thing that bugged me. Especially early on, the camera was really glued to T&A whenever it saw the opportunity, and it wasn't even sneaky about it. It was distracting, which is never a good thing.

The UI and UX were also a constant source of frustration. I can only imagine this part suffered because they were trying to stick to their release date, but releasing it in that state wasn't right. I heard they fixed it up a lot over time, but that means very little to someone who played it at launch. I didn't mind the gatcha stuff too much, though it was the sole reason I didn't attempt to 100% it.

Great JRPG, but I definitely agree that there was a lot to dislike.
In agreement with a lot of things here, especially (but not limited to) the bolded part.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,370
Barcelona
Yeah, this I agree, and I'd also add some problems with the UI, the menu navigation and the Blade switching to pass the field skill checks.

I personally don't think that the game has that many moments that use the camera to focus on the girls ass etc..., it's more that some designs are that sexualized, so most of camera shots will look bad on this regard. It's a shame because even if the game is clearly inspired by older animes, some character designs don't match their personalities, and the mix of lots o manga artists make the optional Blades has the effect of beign artistically incosistent with the base designs.

Even so, one of my favorite JRPG from recent years, I love how it plays and how the areas look, the music is godly and the story/characters are really easy to like. It's rough around the edged for sure, and has the sexualization problem, but otherwise is a great JRPG that does more to capture the magic of classic JRPGs than some clearly retro/nostalgia-inspired other games.
 

Dnomla

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,143
United States
You just played the game, yet you're using a photoshopped picture of Rexs' official art lol.

Everyone has their opinons on character designs, but I do really like Rex's. It's bold and stands out against the world and makes him look distinct. Not sure why so many people have a problem with it.

And another thing I'm continually baffled by is people thinking Mythras' design is more ok than Pyra's. Why, when they're not any different?

I must have butt and boob blindness too because I don't remeber all these "tit and ass" shots that get mentioned. Except for the only obvious one at the beginning of chapter two.

I've never been one to let a character's clothing blind my judgement of the them. If they're well written, it doesnt matter. And XC2's characters are all charming and distinct. Which is no surprise for a Xeno game.

Anyways, my main criticisms are the technical ones. The game needed another 6 months. There's just a bunch of annoying little things that could have been fixed.

But it's still an amazing game though. Best Xeno game since Xenogears and Xenosaga Episode I. It really captures that feel. The humor, story, presentation, music, pacing. Everything really felt like a return to form.

Also, I liked the Blade gacha and thought it was fun. It reminded me a lot of my favorite JRPG of all time, Chrono Cross. All these optional, unique party members you can get that have their own little side-stories that make the world feel more alive and interesting. I love things like that.
 
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Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
The OP reads exactly like what I would write if I played the game. Xenoblade 1 is one of my favorite games of all time, but every time I see something about XB2's sexualization, I nope the fuck out. There's too many amazing games out there and too little time to spend 100 hours of constant cognitive dissonance / groaning / rolling my eyes.
 

Blade24070

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,000
For me the world was a chore to explore until I got the expansion pass. Turned off enemy aggro and never looked back.

The characters were alright minus Tora. Garbage incarnate, please eradicate the entire race.
 

takriel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,221
Didn't care to finish it because it's so clearly animey and therefore offputting.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,113
I love Rex's design. It's typical JRPG but in a non-offensive way. I mean, Shulk doesn't look that much better, if you're honest (and i love Shulk, too).

I get the things about the girls, though. Shame, since the characters themselves are expetionally well done as is the whole cast imo. Best ensemble in years.
I'd say Shulk is poorly designed but still way better than Rex. Both need a complete redesign though.
 

MisterSpo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Feb 12, 2019
9,080
I definitely have a love/hate relationship with this game, though it was also due to the UI, mini-map (pre-patch), and the various poorly implemented systems which trip over one another (gacha unlocks plus field skills was not a good mix). That being said, I ultimately have a huge amount of love for it - the combat system in particular is brilliant as you go on, and gets even better in Torna. Torna also benefits from restraint, in that the game doesn't set up too many systems which can easily clash with one another.

I agree with other people - this is a game that needed more time in the oven. I understand why, coming off 3DS and Wii U, Nintendo wanted as much software as possible out in 2017, but in hindsight pushing XBC2 out that year really wasn't necessary. The game could have launched in September 2018 with the Torna expansion built in (which was originally part of the main game) and with some other refinements, and Switch likely wouldn't have been any worse off commercially. I'd have got rid of the gacha unlocks and just concentrated on unique Blades unlocked via the main-story, story-driven side-quests and through boss battles in the overworld (Tyrants are great - imagine if they unlocked Blades the first time you beat them?). Refine the field skills system so that it's always an optional shortcut rather than a necessity (which is actually how this mechanic is introduced), and so that as long as you have the right combination of Blades somewhere in your collection, you don't need to swap out and equip the correct Blades. Incorporate the Torna-combat throughout the entire game, and so on.

It's no surprise that, like almost every Tetsuya Takahashi helmed game bar the original Xenoblade Chronicles, XBC 2 is a victim of its own ambition - but it can't have helped that, for the bulk of development, 60% of Monolith staff were put on Zelda duty. Hopefully having a separate team on Zelda-duty means the bulk of Monolith Soft are more focused on their next project. Given the high-points for Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and Torna are pretty spectacular, I'm optimistic about their next game.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
I don't hate it, not even the weird designs, but you're right that there is that dichotomy of great storytelling and animations, visuals what have you but then the game is badly optimized (or really just more like a PS4 game than something that should be mained on a Switch) and the game systems really leave something to be desired, especially the UI.
 

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,123
Limburg
I enjoyed nearly the entire game (minus the fanservice) and then was completely let down by the fanservice ending.
 

Deleted member 7883

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,387
I never had a stronger love/hate relationship with a game than I did with this. Overall I quite enjoyed it, though.

FUCK URSULA. FUCK THAT FUCKING POLAR BEAR.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
I just hate it. Coming from two of the best JRPG of all time to THIS is almost MGS5 levels of disappointment. I really hope they can turn the series back on track.
 

JB2448

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,964
Florida
Man this game really does get a thread a week, huh?
A testament to both its extremely positive and extremely negative elements. It's a truly controversial game in that regard. This is all separate from the fact that it's also published by Nintendo and developed by a Nintendo first party development team.
 

GuEiMiRrIRoW

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,530
Brazil
The only thing i would change is pyra.

Mythra is a sexy girl and she doesn't give a fuck about other people.
Pyra is too reserved. She would never dress like that in a real world.
 

Antony

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,684
PlayStation Home
User Warned: thread whining
Fuck me I thought you were gonna talk about the awful UX or the mishandling of the Blade system, not this boring old shit yet again.
 

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,123
Limburg
They had a chance here to make something amazing and they sacrificed wjaybot could have been to tell a generic shounen harem anime story
 

Exede

Banned
Feb 8, 2019
650
Totally loved this game. Had a blast until KOS-MOS was my only blade missing... these hours of grinding cores until i finally got her after hours of praying and button mashing. I like the style, the story, the looks ans of course the battle system. Some blade designs where hmmm a lil questionable but overall the designs where great.

#clubkosmos
 

ryushe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,814
Where the heck did you get that picture of Rex in normal pants? That's not official art, right?
 

Bitmap Frogs

Banned
Sep 16, 2018
705
I couldn't hate more the party in xeno2.

Rex looks dumb, pyra and mythra are a mess, Nia is ok, the agility tank looks silly and thunderpunch has a serious case of the nomura belts. Ah and let's not forget mehmehmeh... I like the mechanics of the game and the exploration and all that but...
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,864
People ignores so much of the game's faults. It's literally an incomplete game that was cobbled together with 0 thoughts put into its game and level design.

Textbook definition of an heavily outsourced game to the point that this game has the same identity as a F2P game like flyff or metin2. It doesn't have "issues", it has critical structural problems on nearly every area of the game.

Probably the only thing that was heavily thought out was how to pad the game with the least amount of work required. Multi-objective sidequest chains, gatekeeping at every step, loot chance with different tiers, gacha mechanics, an experience system for pretty much every battle mechanics, shopping bloat. This game was designed so that no task should take less than 20 hours to complete, no matter how menial and insignificant it is.

This is honestly one of the worst JRPGs I've played in recent years, it doesn't respect a single thing about me to the point that it becomes insulting. Throw in the Naruto characters and its harem and honestly I feel robbed of my 50€. I paid for a soundtrack, not a game
 

VentusGallius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
295
I think the art design is the easier to see problem with the game but at least to me the blade system was far worse. You could fix art issues with patches and costumes but you can't fix the blade system. Its counter to the narrative they were trying to tell and I know I personally spent way too much time fishing for Kos-Mos before giving up. Turning weapons and skills into sentient creatures you're supposed to care about but only give a damn because they have +1 to plant gathering is terrible.
 

Efejota

Member
Mar 13, 2018
3,750
I share the same feeling, though not only for the things you pointed at, but especially for many gameplay decisions. Exploration in this game totally sucks compared to the other Xenos. Yet I love the game.
The DLC is simply on another level, it's among my favorite RPG's ever.
Still haven't decided what to play first, if XC2 or Torna. After coming from XCX the shorter prequel game sound more interesting to me, but there's always people saying that both spoil each-other.

Earlier Xenoblade games had costume problems as well, but it was always the optional ones you bought to improve your stats.
What I don't get from Mythra and Pyra are those pieces of ring-shaped cloth hanging from their hips for both of them.