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Rosenkrantz

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,938
That's great! I hope MS will continue to support BC, but realistically, there's not many chances something like Otogi or Gunvalkyrie will ever see a light of day again.
 

thomasmahler

Game Director at Moon Studios
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,097
Vienna / Austria
On that note, isn't it weird how Microsoft never extended their PC catalogue to include the Xbox / X360 catalogue? The Windows Store always needed a serious boost and I thought in the past that Microsoft would extend their Xbox library to the PC, so that they could actually compete with Steam in terms of a software catalogue for their store, but this never happened. Now people will use emulators instead of taking the 'official' route. Strange.
 

MaLDo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,404
JSRF and Sega GT 2002 are at "Playable" Status so that's pretty dope. Those are both exclusive to OG Xbox and were a big part of my childhood.

JSRF already work with high resolution and 60 fps (in console it was 30) in CXBX emulator 2 years ago

youtu.be

Cxbx-Reloaded | Jet Set Radio: Future (Playable / 60 FPS) #2

New video (with SFX Fixed): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2QlxsTzbAICxbx-Reloaded Patreon:https://www.patreon.com/LukeUsheri7 2600 3.8 Ghz (Turbo) + CM Bl...
 

AmirMoosavi

Member
Dec 10, 2018
2,023
Oh shit, Evil Dead Regeneration! Was just thinking about that the other day. Shame the PC version is retail only and has DRM.
 

MaLDo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,404
...? JSRF is 60 fps on console. The original on DC was 30.

yes, my bad. It's only the resolution that can be increased. Anyway, I don't remember the original having smooth framerate, could be slowdowns instead of 30 fps. Playing in the emulator was a more pleasing experience.
 

s_mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,773
Birmingham, UK
I am not sure if it is related, but is it for the same reason (lack of documentation) virtualization software and wrappers are still unable to simulate or emulate native Direct3D support for Windows 95/98 games that do not have NT/2000 support?

If I were to guess, it's could be lack of will more than anything. The only people who are really interested in 3D acceleration in Win 9x are gamers, and the gaming market doesn't seem to be one that the professional virtualization solution providers are too keen to support.

PCem and 86Box emulate Win 9x with 3dfx support just fine, but they're emulation so they are a little slow.
 

SixelAlexiS

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,730
Italy
This is REALLY impressive and I never had an Xbox, I don't even know a lot of those games, but I've appreciated the inclusion of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, I had a thing for that game back then on PS2 :'D
 

AmirMoosavi

Member
Dec 10, 2018
2,023
Looking forward to playing the best version of Splinter Cell: Double Agent without having to drag out my Xbox.
 

Atolm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,829
Looking forward to playing the best version of Splinter Cell: Double Agent without having to drag out my Xbox.

That one is available on Xbox One and Xbox Series, enhanced for 4k.
Sorry to inject myself in this conversation, but i had to ask : Is there definite upsides/downsides to using either approach for emulation?

The main downside is lack of portability. Cxbx approach won't work on anything without Windows for example.
 
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BennyWhatever

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,798
US
Quick semi-related question - the only real way to dump a backup of an OG XBox game is via original hardware, right? It's not as simple as using a DVD drive on PC and ripping the ISO like a PS2 game?
 

arcadepc

Banned
Dec 28, 2019
1,925
Possibly, because there are Glide wrappers that work just fine for the older titles, due to the API being open source. It may also be a consequence of the rewrites MS did to the early versions of D3D, which were not as user friendly as OpenGL at the time.

And of course, MS itself had no problems emulating the consoles on x86 processors.


Had the same question on reddit and a more detailed answer :

In the early 1990s, Silicon Graphics designed the first version of what would become OpenGL to drive their multi-thousand-dollar Unix workstations. Because it was designed for (at the time) ridiculously expensive GPUs, it wasn't until the late 1990s that the technology became cheap enough to use in consumer GPUs, and that basic architecture became the foundation for the graphics technologies we've seen since.

Meanwhile, the first version of Direct3D was designed for the very first consumer GPUs. The second version of Direct3D was designed for the second generation of consumer GPUs, which were wildly different from the first generation. The third version was designed for the third generation, and so forth, and it wasn't until Direct3D reached parity with OpenGL around version 7 or 8 that everything settled down to something that would be vaguely familiar to a modern graphics developer.

Which is to say: old OpenGL games can run pretty nicely on modern hardware because modern GPUs are descended from the high-end GPUs OpenGL was originally designed for. Old Direct3D games are probably a ball-ache to run on modern hardware, because modern GPUs are wildly different from the weird and niche GPUs Direct3D was originally designed for — the same reason that emulating primitive 3D consoles like the PS1 and Nintendo DS is a lot more buggy and difficult than more powerful consoles like the Gamecube.

It's probably even worse for old Direct3D games because unlike PS1 and DS games, you *can* play them without supporting 3D acceleration. It might not be as pretty, but it's still a lot prettier than a PS1 game running on an emulator that doesn't support the PS1 GPU.
 

s_mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,773
Birmingham, UK
Which is to say: old OpenGL games can run pretty nicely on modern hardware because modern GPUs are descended from the high-end GPUs OpenGL was originally designed for. Old Direct3D games are probably a ball-ache to run on modern hardware, because modern GPUs are wildly different from the weird and niche GPUs Direct3D was originally designed for — the same reason that emulating primitive 3D consoles like the PS1 and Nintendo DS is a lot more buggy and difficult than more powerful consoles like the Gamecube.

Another issue with some early (and not so early, to be honest) D3D games is that they were often coded for specifically to cater to the idiosyncrasies of popular hardware and drivers of the time rather than to the specifications. Even fairly early on this led to things like texture alignment issues if, for example, you weren't using 3dfx hardware. Some games, like Resident Evil 2, let you choose which hardware type you were using, and some of those options work on modern hardware. Unfortunately most games either didn't do this or relied on detecting your GPU manufacturer, something that obviously causes problems now.

There are some games that don't even work at all without fan made patches due to doing things like loading textures in an incorrect format. This apparently was allowed by some of the popular hardware of the time, so rather than do things properly some developers seem to have just said "it works here, so good enough". Of course, that's going to be trouble on more spec compliant hardware.
 

Mortis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
162
Hmm so ive just ripped my copy of Buffy to an iso format got xemu setup and after the Xbox Boot animation is ask please 'insert an xbox disc' which i load the Buffy iso file but the message stays on the screen and the game doesnt load.

Any ideas?
I had to use the 'Reset' setting to get it to actually load the ISO. Maybe try that?
 

Borman

Digital Games Curator at The Strong Museum
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
844
Quick semi-related question - the only real way to dump a backup of an OG XBox game is via original hardware, right? It's not as simple as using a DVD drive on PC and ripping the ISO like a PS2 game?

You can modify a few select PC drives to rip games, but youll have to extract the contents and rebuild the ISO into one that xemu currently supports. Hopefully that changes in the future though!
 

smisk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,001
This is great! I remember following the devlopment of one of these emulators a few years ago and it felt like it would never get there.