• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
6,059
I still don't understand why we still need winners and losers in this thing. Nintendo has carved their niche in the handheld console market, Sony has great sit down console games and MS is making services that are easy to use and making more games accessible to all. They aren't competing anymore it's not the 10's

We don't. We can acknowledge that shifts in the market pose risk however the market is also projected to expand a lot over the next 10 years. There will be plenty of opportunities to offer value. It cost more for a couple to go out to the movies than for an entire month of Netflix but people still go out when there's content they want to see. The fear mongering is insane. So far it's based on concerns of some anonymous people and not on actual facts or real stories.

How can you trust them when all they want to do is to take your money.

Imagine how shocked and heartbroken people will be when they find out what Nintendo's intentions with us are.
 

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,932
MS has been doing everything right so far, such a turn around from 2013. I really wish them all the success they can get next gen. :) just give my fable , halo infinite, perfect dark, kameo 2 and Pgr.
 

Iron Eddie

Banned
Nov 25, 2019
9,812
Think about this, 4 or 5 years ago, journalist were talking about Microsoft with jokes, always a dig here and there. Sounded immature because they were echoing drive by troll comments you could find on gamefaqs.

Microsoft changed that narrative by fighting up hill and brought about changes that made people stop with the console war nonsense and actually pay attention and respect them. Now these podcasters who just couldn't help themselves with the pile on's that favor another brand talk about what Gamepass like a service they wish Nintendo or Sony adapts.

Does that mean Xbox will be king of hill next gen? Fuck no, they will probably still be third place, but you know what, at least they won't be clowned from the start of the generation and the media won't be joining in on the dog pile. Coverage will return to normal levels.
You will still get the console warriors coming out of the woodwork asking for hardware sales and comparing metacritic scores on exclusives. That will never change.

A lot of Europeans, for example, still associate Microsoft with tech industry antitrust stuff from a quarter century ago and think of it as Europe's victory against a greedy American company, and that sentiment extends to Xbox, for whatever reason. I see that attitude with frequency, and it boggles my mind.

Not surprising to be honest.

How can you trust them when all they want to do is to take your money.
Epic gives you free games and some won't even accept that, now GamePass is killing everyones wallet. That $5.99 Cdn. per month I pay for GamePass on PC is outrageous. What is this world coming to?
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
MS is explicitly trying to disrupt the industry because they have not proven the ability to compete consistently under the status quo. How destructive that will be, if at all, remains to be seen.

explain why Sony is seeking to dramatically scale up PSNow. Have they also 'failed to compete consistently under the status quo'?
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,673
The Milky Way
A lot of Europeans, for example, still associate Microsoft with tech industry antitrust stuff from a quarter century ago and think of it as Europe's victory against a greedy American company, and that sentiment extends to Xbox, for whatever reason. I see that attitude with frequency, and it boggles my mind.
Nintendo is doing just fine in Europe though.

They've had huge EU fines for price fixing (2008) and dodgy export policies (2002).
 

Golvellius

Banned
Dec 3, 2017
1,304
Attitudes haven't changed much at all, save for the mass migration to digital purchases. That's what has propelled Sony and Nintendo to record setting success this gen. MS has been left out in the cold, which is the only reason why they are tossing all their biggest games out for a dollar. That is a race to the bottom.
From the perspective of a boomer this might be true. Not everybody is stuck in the nineties though.
 

Laver

Banned
Mar 30, 2018
2,654
l'm sticking with Xbox no matter what due to MS rewards, Game Pass, and BC, but I'll be interested to get a PS5 later to play all the excluxives I missed from PS4 and PS5.
I'd still go XSX first due to game pass, but I believe it'll be taking the power crown.
MS having the power crown seems most likely indeed. If Sony manages to beat MS in terms of specs, it cant be by much in any case else PS5's price would be at exorbitant levels. However, as non-hardware factors (such as exclusive games, controller preferences, services) are ultimately more important than the performance edge, all those emotional posts in the next-gen thread about which insiders are trustworthy and which are not seem really funny to me.

I'm PC only at this point and have been for almost a decade. With Game Pass being on PC and Xbox, it might make switching between both platforms effortless and pain free, so I'm also considering getting XSX near launch (I imagine here in Germany we won't see shortage issues at launch with Xbox's lack of popularity, so I don't need to preorder or anything). I am still pleased with how games look and perform on my 4 years old PC, however I'd like to experience ray-tracing in my games. So for me the most important factors are the cost of upgrading my PC vs buying an Xbox and how well Xbox supports ray-tracing vs nVidia's 3000 series.
 
Dec 15, 2017
1,590
The Xbox One X already runs many games at Native 4k, some use dynamic resolution hitting native 4k many times. What excites me the most is what some of the MS teams will be able to do with Series X. If you look at Playground's Forza Horizon 4 on Xbox One X it is Native 4k/Rock Solid 30fps and looks incredible. Turn 10 made an incredible looking Forza Motorsport 7 at Native 4k/60fps (solid). Coalition making a game that hits 4k Native (mainly dynamic) but at 60fps and looks incredible. Those are just 3 games mentioned, there are several others hitting Native 4k or very near 4k. The main issue with the "X" was that it relied on a slightly higher clocked Jaguar CPU. The GPU in the "X" has done most of the heavy lifting. Imagine what the "X" would of been if they had put a better CPU in it.

With that said, the Series X with RDNA 2.0 12tf and the efficiency that will bring imho will bring a ton of games in Native 4k/30 and 60fps. The big question is how AMD/MS has implemented the Ray Tracing in the console.


Yeah MS does not get enough credit for the tech behind their first party games. I'd love a Motorsport 8 with a better car selection (more focus on European and Japanese cars from the 50's thru the mid 00's and no pick up trucks) But I believe that people should really have their expectations in check regarding what these new consoles will be bringing to the table.

- These consoles will have to provide next gen visuals, at higher resolution and higher framerates. Some with RT on top. That's quite the ordeal considering they will have just twice the GPU power of an Xbox one X.

lol at folks expressing their "concern" about the gaming industry due to gamepass... Console warriors in disguise
 

Kreten

Banned
Nov 16, 2019
323
You take 5700XT and compare it to 2070. The cards are essentially even in performance. 5700XT has a bit more actual, sustained tflops than 2070. Hence why RDNA1 is not as efficient in perf/flop as Turing but it's a lot more efficient than either GCN4 or GCN5 were against Pascal and Turing.

See this is exactly what I'm talking about, I believe that this is false. 5700XT Game Clock is 1755MHz while 2070S it's 1770MHz. Remember AMD reports 3 numbers Base/Game/Boost, Base is same for both Game Clock AMD=Boost Clock Nvidia, Boost Clock AMD (max theoretical burst) is unreported by Nvidia.
If you watch comparison videos you see 2070S consistently running 50MHz+ higher than RX5700. Example:
youtu.be

RX 5700 XT vs RTX 2070 Super. Test in 10 Games

Buy Cheap PC Games: https://www.g2a.com/r/gr-5bec979e83485Sapphire Radeon RX 5700 XTZOTAC GAMING RTX 2070 Superintel core i7-8700K OCGames: 1440p/Ultra1-Resi...


Where do you get that RX 5700 Xt has higher sustained clock from? AMD boost clock does not mean same thing as Nvidia boost clock, for AMD it is theoretical maximum burst speed and a reason they list the card as UP TO 9.75TF. If you calculate TF based on same method(using Nvidia method), using Boost/Game clock then RX 5700 Xt is 8.9856TF and 2070S is 9.0624TF. This however is not accurate representation either as Nvidia cards, due to better thermals, consistently run higher MHz than AMD in actual game performance comparisons. However it is a lot more accurate than calculating TF for one off of maximum theoretical clock and for the other off of manufacturer guaranteed minimum clock.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
I'd still go XSX first due to game pass, but I believe it'll be taking the power crown.
I think Sony is silent because they've been quietly changing things and I absolutely think PS5 will take the power crown.
But unless they change a ton of other things as well I'll also still choose XSX first, mostly because of prepaid Game Pass but Play Anywhere and in general just the much less locked up ecosystem is a big deal too.
 

Deleted member 61469

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 17, 2019
1,587
I think Sony is silent because they've been quietly changing things and I absolutely think PS5 will take the power crown.
But unless they change a ton of other things as well I'll also still choose XSX first, mostly because of prepaid Game Pass but Play Anywhere and in general just the much less locked up ecosystem is a big deal too.

lol

Surely we would now of any drastic changes by now. There is no such thing as quiet in this industry. Big changes would require updates for devs working on ps5 games. If Klee is any indication, one of them would have talked at least about something by now.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
lol

Surely we would now of any drastic changes by now. There is no such thing as quiet in this industry. Big changes would require updates for devs working on ps5 games. If Klee is any indication, one of them would have talked at least about something by now.
We didn't know about a 12TF XSX until like a week ago. We still know nothing about Lockhart. Why would we know about PS5 being weaker or that upgrades hasn't happened? Sony has been extremely silent, I don't see the reason why unless they're still pushing things and tries to finalize the hardware.
 

Proven

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,841
We didn't know about a 12TF XSX until like a week ago. We still know nothing about Lockhart. Why would we know about PS5 being weaker or that upgrades hasn't happened? Sony has been extremely silent, I don't see the reason why unless they're still pushing things and tries to finalize the hardware.

We have known about a 12 TF console from Xbox for many months, and there's no way Sony's hardware isn't finalized.
 

Lewpy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,210
We haven't known that, sorry. Rumors aren't facts.
Technically no, but the rumours were spot on.

Considering the expected release of both machines is fairly close, I think the rumours come from people that have sight of the details on both machines.

Unless Sony is going to delay for a tweek revision, I'm inclined to believe the PS5 specs are also true.
 

OldBenKenobi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,696
We haven't known that, sorry. Rumors aren't facts.

I think most of Resetera, Reddit and general consensus knew that XSX was gonna be 12 TF when it was first announced months back.

I mean when MS first showed it off and DF did a video, they even predicted 12'TF because of rumors. Hell my friends who hardly follow forums, knew XSX was 12 TF.


edit:
It is still weird to me we haven't heard or seen what the ps5 will look like. We have things confirmed like custom ssd, cpu, NAVI GPU, and hardware RT but nothing about power. I would figure if Sony did have the power crown, why would they stay so silent about it?
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
We have known about a 12 TF console from Xbox for many months, and there's no way Sony's hardware isn't finalized.
We actually haven't known anything about the teraflops. And there were lots of assumptions that there was some strange math going on when Phil talked about XSX being 2x XBX. Look at the start of this thread, would the reactions be like that if things were already known?
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
We actually haven't known anything about the teraflops. And there were lots of assumptions that there was some strange math going on when Phil talked about XSX being 2x XBX. Look at the start of this thread, would the reactions be like that if things were already known?
Agreed, we also had a load of people saying it was GCN or RDNA 1 possibly. RDNA2 was pretty much laughed at.
 

catswaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,797
We actually haven't known anything about the teraflops. And there were lots of assumptions that there was some strange math going on when Phil talked about XSX being 2x XBX. Look at the start of this thread, would the reactions be like that if things were already known?

They explicitly said "2x", and two times six is twelve. Attempts to read into "weird math" were goofy.
 

Laver

Banned
Mar 30, 2018
2,654
We actually haven't known anything about the teraflops. And there were lots of assumptions that there was some strange math going on when Phil talked about XSX being 2x XBX. Look at the start of this thread, would the reactions be like that if things were already known?
Let's not fool ourselves, the strange math was applied by those who desperately wanted XSX to be as weak as possible within the constraints of "2x X1X".
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
They explicitly said "2x", and two times six is twelve. Attempts to read into "weird math" were goofy.
Read the reply above your post, there was lots of speculations on how they would actually reach that 2x figure.
And again, we know nothing about what Sony is doing. Nothing. Everything at this point is based on rumours. And there are rumours that PS5 will beat XSX on power.
 

Splader

Member
Feb 12, 2018
5,063
We actually haven't known anything about the teraflops. And there were lots of assumptions that there was some strange math going on when Phil talked about XSX being 2x XBX. Look at the start of this thread, would the reactions be like that if things were already known?
We had multiple insiders saying 12 TF for a while.
The weird debate came when people were adamant that it was GCN, because they couldn't see how MS was going to do a 12 TF RDNA gpu. Hell you still have people saying it's not actually RDNA 2.
 

catswaller

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,797
Read the reply above your post, there was lots of speculations on how they would actually reach that 2x figure.
And again, we know nothing about what Sony is doing. Nothing. Everything at this point is based on rumours. And there are rumours that PS5 will beat XSX on power.

Yeah, ps5 totally might beat xsx, but all the people trying to argue down the xsx tflops were goofballs.

(My personal prediction is this gen is gonna be muddy and prone to console wars over, cause the easy to digest specs (read speed, cpu mhz, tflops) won't tell a clear story. Like, say a much lower tflop gpu with a ton of separate raytracing processing that's not doing flops, or something like that.)
 
Last edited:

Iron Eddie

Banned
Nov 25, 2019
9,812
We didn't know about a 12TF XSX until like a week ago. We still know nothing about Lockhart. Why would we know about PS5 being weaker or that upgrades hasn't happened? Sony has been extremely silent, I don't see the reason why unless they're still pushing things and tries to finalize the hardware.
They've had their dev kits out before Microsoft. So unless Sony postpones their PS5 to next year it's too late to be making major revisions. This is likely why Microsoft felt they were able to talk more about Series X now.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
They've had their dev kits out before Microsoft. So unless Sony postpones their PS5 to next year it's too late to be making major revisions. This is likely why Microsoft felt they were able to talk more about Series X now.
The dev kits has had new revisions many times already. Do we actually know anything about what devs are using today?
 

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,232
I´m seeing less money for developers in this new paradigm. That´s what drives me on thinking the quality will be lower. I really hope I´m wrong.

There is more money in streaming budgets for TV than there ever was over broadcast cable.

If anything the issue seems to be that content creators need to pump out *more* content as it's more transitive and people leap from hotness to hotness quicker.

It may lead to more shorter games going forward.
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,885
See this is exactly what I'm talking about, I believe that this is false. 5700XT Game Clock is 1755MHz while 2070S it's 1770MHz. Remember AMD reports 3 numbers Base/Game/Boost, Base is same for both Game Clock AMD=Boost Clock Nvidia, Boost Clock AMD (max theoretical burst) is unreported by Nvidia.
If you watch comparison videos you see 2070S consistently running 50MHz+ higher than RX5700.
5700XT has 2560 ALUs. 2070 has 2304. Even on the same clocks 2070 would be more efficient per flop than 5700XT if they'll show similar performance.

Where do you get that RX 5700 Xt has higher sustained clock from?
b65Annotation2020030101.png


But it doesn't matter really. What you need is performance and observed clocks under load.
 

Iron Eddie

Banned
Nov 25, 2019
9,812
5700XT has 2560 ALUs. 2070 has 2304. Even on the same clocks 2070 would be more efficient per flop than 5700XT if they'll show similar performance.


b65Annotation2020030101.png


But it doesn't matter really. What you need is performance and observed clocks under load.
Everything I have seen puts the 5700XT somewhere between the 2070 and the 2070 Super in most game tests. The 5700XT is priced roughly the same as the 2070 while the Super I think is $100 more.

Going by teraflops for the Series X it looks to be quite a jump from the 5700XT and it is also very hard to compare directly to videocards meant for PC use. Consoles are a lot more efficient, just look at what was possible on the base PS4 for example.

If this console is $499 that looks to be quite a steal IMO.
 

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
6,059
Best thing about Series X is that it's purely a gaming console aimed at bringing as many game development features as they can squeeze into their BOM. I'm not paying for anything else. No Kinect. No sacrifices for bullshit. If Sony makes changes and edges it by a hair, doesn't matter. Feel good about what I'm getting for my money with the Game Pass console. Now its Sonys turn. Hope they offer a great value too. I don't get the hand wringing about who's going to "win". Nobody ever asks what BOTW would've looked like with 20% more flop power. The true power is in supporting devs to do creative shit efficiently.
 

Dokkaebi G0SU

Member
Nov 2, 2017
5,922
Best thing about Series X is that it's purely a gaming console aimed at bringing as many game development features as they can squeeze into their BOM. I'm not paying for anything else. No Kinect. No sacrifices for bullshit. If Sony makes changes and edges it by a hair, doesn't matter. Feel good about what I'm getting for my money with the Game Pass console. Now its Sonys turn. Hope they offer a great value too. I don't get the hand wringing about who's going to "win". Nobody ever asks what BOTW would've looked like with 20% more flop power. The true power is in supporting devs to do creative shit efficiently.
Thank you
 
Status
Not open for further replies.