Xbox Series X announced (formerly Project Scarlett)

Voodoopeople · Dec 19, 2019

Any people genuinely confused about the naming convention of the next Xbox are also likely to be confused as to how to use their genitalia for breeding purposes, so are not likely to present a problem when purchasing consoles for their progeny.

It simply won't be an issue.

Trup1aya · Dec 19, 2019

Temp_User said:
The spec difference means no nevermind then? Cut features like having no optical drive or worse, actual hardware downgrades to make the Xbox One S cheaper than the Xbox One X is another additional source of confusion and disappointment for buyers. See the old IGN article below.

Its actually a pain in the ass for both buyers and game developers. Why is MS doing this again?
https://www.ign.com/articles/2008/10/16/top-10-reasons-the-xbox-360-arcade-sku-sucks

4. Developers Can't Rely on a Hard Drive
Ever wish load times weren't so long in the games you play? Well maybe they could have been just a bit shorter if it weren't for the Arcade SKU's total lack of a hard drive. It's the only Xbox 360 SKU remaining without a HDD and it's about time that changed. Of course people do have the option of upgrading but…

3. Cost of Upgrading is Painful
We're not sure what planet Microsoft is living on, but a 120 GB hard drive no longer costs 150 bucks. In fact, we were able to find a 1 terabyte hard drive at Newegg.com for the same price as the 120 GB Xbox 360 hard drive. For shame, Microsoft, for shame.

2. Xbox 360 is Getting Its Ass Kicked.
It's tough to admit that an initiative has failed but it's high time that Microsoft bit the bullet and come out and say that the Arcade SKU has been discontinued. It's not working. The Xbox 360 is consistently getting beat by the Wii and PS3 despite the cost-competitive Arcade SKU looming off to the side. It's time to reinvigorate the 360 marketing strategy with something of a slightly higher quality.

1. It's Just Asking to Ruin Some Kid's Christmas
If you're under the age of 18 and not much of a gamer, chances are you're not going to specify one of the numerous Xbox 360 SKUs to your parents when you fill out the all-important Christmas list. Instead you'll likely say, "I want an Xbox 360." Any normal kid could make this mistake. Then on the biggest sales day of the year your parents or grandparents walk into a store and ask for an Xbox 360. The stores clerk hands them a box that says Xbox 360 on it with the camouflaged words "Go Play!" inconspicuously placed on the box and they think they've just made their child's dream Christmas a reality. Little do they know that they've just ruined not only their son or daughter's Christmas, but their entire Xbox 360 gaming experience.

You're talking about a completely different can of worms.

We're talking about naming conventions. Your speculating about technical difficulties based on a very different campaign from 2 generations ago. The problem back then wasn't in the naming- it was in the value proposition. There's no indication that Series S owners will have to purchase upgrades to get an equitable gaming experience.

The dynamic between the xbox one S and the Xbox one X hasn't resulted in any sort of mass consumer confusion or disappointment as far as I'm aware. And all signs point to the development environment, and consequently, the consumer experience being similarly consistent and predictable for this next family of products.

Microsoft will market a "New Xbox" and consumers will be given a choice between a base option and a fully loaded option. consumers already do this when we buy a new phone or a new car. Phone calls and gas work just as expected regardless of which option is chosen. The same will be true for "new xbox" games.

Temp_User · Dec 19, 2019

Trup1aya said:
You're talking about a completely different can of worms.

We're talking about naming conventions. Your speculating about technical difficulties based on a very different campaign from 2 generations ago. There's no indication that Series S owners will have to purchase upgraded to get an equitable gaming experience.

The dynamic between the xbox one S and the Xbox one X hasn't resulted in any sort of mass consumer confusion as far as I'm aware. And all signs point to the development environment, and consequently, the consumer experience being similarly consistent and predictable for this next family of products.

Microsoft will market a "New Xbox" and consumers will be given a choice between a base option and a fully loaded option. consumers already do this when we buy a new phone or a new car.

I typed the wrong console name in my last reply (its corrected now). Because fuck it, i was distracted. Every instance of Xbox One X should be Xbox Series X and every instance of Xbox One S should be Xbox Series S.

Anyway, people in this thread has been using the assumed $500 price tag of the Xbox Series X would make it easier to differentiate it from Xbox One X . . .

Shpeshal Ed said:
Dude. This isn't aimed at the casual consumer. It's a $499 console lol.

Theorry said:
Those people dont buy a 500 dollar console. They dont care what its named also. They will go for the ones with a low price.
But they other user already said twice already.

. . . . which is bs. A cheaper "Xbox X" exists that could also play Halo Infinite. And Xbox One X looks more like a traditional flat-top console that actually fits most people's entertainment setup unlike the Amazon Echo looking Xbox Series X. The higher price tag of the XSex would make it stand-out alright, stand-out to be ignored as too pricey.

Anyway those same answers open a whole lot of can of worms unrelated to the confusing name of Xbox Series X in relation to Xbox One X:

Its bonkers to sell a 500 dollar console at launch. There has to be a cheaper version but that leads to . . . .
2 SKU's at launch w/c is a bad idea. Its risky and a hassle for buyers and game developers to worry about a $500 fully loaded console option(Xbox Series X) and a cheaper, a feature/hardware gutted base option(Xbox Series S) for reason i stated in my previous reply.

You get the shit feeling that the confusing name debacle between the Xbox Series X in relation to Xbox One X is just the least of MS worries going in to Holiday 2020 . . . . is the competition gonna be this confusing too?

dm101 · Dec 19, 2019

Atom Heart Mother said:
COOL

Oh yeah

Trup1aya · Dec 19, 2019

Temp_User said:
I typed the wrong console name in my last reply (its corrected now). Because fuck it, i was distracted. Every instance of Xbox One X should be Xbox Series X and every instance of Xbox One S should be Xbox Series S.

Don't worry about the typo, because the point still stands regardless of which family of products is being discussed.

Consumers aren't confused about Xbox One X vs Xbox One S. Similarly, they won't be confused about Series X vs Series S. We've already experienced a real-life test of the impending naming convention and there's been virtually no issue for consumers.

Anyway, people in this thread has been using the assumed $500 price tag of the Xbox Series X would make it easier to differentiate it from Xbox One X . . .

. . . . which is bs. A cheaper "Xbox X" exists that could also play Halo Infinite. And Xbox One X looks more like a traditional flat-top console that actually fits most people's entertainment setup unlike the Amazon Echo looking Xbox Series X. The higher price tag of the XSex would make it stand-out alright, stand-out to be ignored as too pricey.

Anyway those same answers open a whole lot of can of worms unrelated to the confusing name of Xbox Series X in relation to Xbox One X:

Its bonkers to sell a 500 dollar console at launch. There has to be a cheaper version but that leads to . . . .

2 SKU's at launch w/c is a bad idea. Its risky and a hassle for buyers and game developers to worry about a $500 fully loaded console option(Xbox Series X) and a cheaper, a feature/hardware gutted base option(Xbox Series S) for reason i stated in my previous reply.

You get the shit feeling that the confusing name debacle between the Xbox Series X in relation to Xbox One X is just the least of MS worries going in to Holiday 2020 . . . . is the competition gonna be this confusing too?

So the big reason you think people will fail to understand that there's a new generation of Xbox consoles is because some games will be cross gen? It's really not hard for people to understand that last gen consoles continue to get the newest releases for a limited amount of time.

The new family of xboxes will be marketed as next gen. The Xbox ones will not.

Regarding pricing, everyone is speculating. But early adopters have no problem spending $500 on a new console. The way to maximize sales would be to debut the Series X exclusively during holiday 2020. They'll undoubtedly sell every box they can ship. Then, just as demand subsides for the Series X, they release the low end model to appeal to those who are more price conscious. They could ship them all at once, and that would ultimately be fine too.

Game developers aren't "worried" about shipping games for multiple SKUs. They've been developing games to be scalable for a long time now and hardware design has only become more friendly to that effort. The example in your reply has been eliminated by standards set in the current gen and will NEVER crop up again. All games run off of the hard drive these days.

Theorry · Dec 19, 2019

Temp_User said:
I typed the wrong console name in my last reply (its corrected now). Because fuck it, i was distracted. Every instance of Xbox One X should be Xbox Series X and every instance of Xbox One S should be Xbox Series S.

Anyway, people in this thread has been using the assumed $500 price tag of the Xbox Series X would make it easier to differentiate it from Xbox One X . . .

. . . . which is bs. A cheaper "Xbox X" exists that could also play Halo Infinite. And Xbox One X looks more like a traditional flat-top console that actually fits most people's entertainment setup unlike the Amazon Echo looking Xbox Series X. The higher price tag of the XSex would make it stand-out alright, stand-out to be ignored as too pricey.

Anyway those same answers open a whole lot of can of worms unrelated to the confusing name of Xbox Series X in relation to Xbox One X:

Its bonkers to sell a 500 dollar console at launch. There has to be a cheaper version but that leads to . . . .

2 SKU's at launch w/c is a bad idea. Its risky and a hassle for buyers and game developers to worry about a $500 fully loaded console option(Xbox Series X) and a cheaper, a feature/hardware gutted base option(Xbox Series S) for reason i stated in my previous reply.

You get the shit feeling that the confusing name debacle between the Xbox Series X in relation to Xbox One X is just the least of MS worries going in to Holiday 2020 . . . . is the competition gonna be this confusing too?

That's what i am saying. People won't be confused by the name because they won't even look at it because of the price.

Temp_User · Dec 19, 2019

Trup1aya said:
Don't worry about the typo, because the point still stands regardless of which family of products is being discussed.

Consumers aren't confused about Xbox One X vs Xbox One S. Similarly, they won't be confused about Series X vs Series S. We've already experienced a real-life test of the impending naming convention and there's been virtually no issue for consumers.

So the big reason you think people will fail to understand that there's a new generation of Xbox consoles is because some games will be cross gen? It's really not hard for people to understand that last gen consoles continue to get the newest releases for a limited amount of time.

The new family of xboxes will be marketed as next gen. The Xbox ones will not.

But the name (and the suffix) of Xbox One X makes it appear that it is part of the next gen Xbox Series X. "Series" is a rather generic descriptive term used to denote a product line and the "One" being the first of its kind. The fact that it can play Halo Infinite, the flagship title of the next gen Xbox reinforces that erroneous thinking. Why leave such a glaring buying pitfall for your casual consumers when you could just fix the name or come up with a less confusing, non-memeable (ie. XSex) one on the first place?

Trup1aya said:
Regarding pricing, everyone is speculating. But early adopters have no problem spending $500 on a new console. The way to maximize sales would be to debut the Series X exclusively during holiday 2020. They'll undoubtedly sell every box they can ship. Then, just as demand subsides for the Series X, they release the low end model to appeal to those who are more price conscious. They could ship them all at once, and that would ultimately be fine too.

The next gen Xbox is not selling itself in a vacuum in holiday 2020. Its going head-to-head with the console market leader with only a high-end $500 console? That is stupid. Bye-bye adoption rates. Are casual buyers not important anymore for MS? Its needs a low-end version of its next gen console for this people but then like i mentioned earlier 2 SKU's on (or near) launch is a bad idea.

Trup1aya said:
Game developers aren't "worried" about shipping games for multiple SKUs. They've been developing games to be scalable for a long time now and hardware design has only become more friendly to that effort. The example in your reply has been eliminated by standards set in the current gen and will NEVER crop up again. All games run off of the hard drive these days.

Its mitigated somewhat today but weak hardware and its effects are still a very real thing and game slowdowns to compensate for the hardware downgrade would still lead to consumer disappointment. Of course, devs would probably try to mitigate these problems by using the less powerful, not-yet-released Xbox Series S specs as the baseline (especially if its closer to next gen competition's specs) instead of the more powerful Xbox Series X which means the early adopters of XSex will not get their moneys worth . . . . you know what maybe its better to launch the console with the most basic hardware and go up instead of starting strong and downgrade from there.

Theorry said:
That's what i am saying. People won't be confused by the name because they won't even look at it because of the price.

That work both ways. Why would a prospective casual buyer even look for a $500 console when Timmy's Halo Infinite game can be played on a cheaper console? The name sounds the same anyway.

Theorry · Dec 19, 2019

Temp_User said:
But the name (and the suffix) of Xbox One X makes it appear that it is part of the next gen Xbox Series X. "Series" is a rather generic descriptive term used to denote a product line and the "One" being the first of its kind. The fact that it can play Halo Infinite, the flagship title of the next gen Xbox reinforces that erroneous thinking. Why leave such a glaring buying pitfall for your casual consumers when you could just fix the name or come up with a less confusing, non-memeable (ie. XSex) one on the first place?

The next gen Xbox is not selling itself in a vacuum in holiday 2020. Its going head-to-head with the console market leader with only a high-end $500 console? That is stupid. Bye-bye adoption rates. Are casual buyers not important anymore for MS? Its needs a low-end version of its next gen console for this people but then like i mentioned earlier 2 SKU's on (or near) launch is a bad idea.

Its mitigated somewhat today but weak hardware and its effects are still a very real thing and game slowdowns to compensate for the hardware downgrade would still lead to consumer disappointment. Of course, devs would probably try to mitigate these problems by using the less powerful, not-yet-released Xbox Series S specs as the baseline instead (especially if its closer to next gen competition's specs) of the more powerful Xbox Series X which means the early adopters of XSex will not get their moneys worth . . . . you know what maybe its better to launch the console with the most basic hardware and go up instead of starting strong and downgrade from there.

That work both ways. Why would a prospective casual buyer even look for a $500 console when Timmy's Halo Infinite game can be played on a cheaper console? The name sounds the same anyway.

The don't. But it isn't for them also.

Temp_User · Dec 19, 2019

Theorry said:
The don't. But it isn't for them also.

I really dont think that releasing a $500 Xbox Series X on its own WITHOUT a cheaper, hardware-downgraded or feature-trimmed Xbox Series S for casual buyers to complement it at LAUNCH in holiday 2020 is a good idea. That would just drive more people to erroneously buy the Xbox One X.

Or the competition.

tapedeck · Dec 19, 2019

Temp_User said:
I really dont think that releasing a $500 Xbox Series X on its own WITHOUT a cheaper, hardware-downgraded or feature-trimmed Xbox Series S for casual buyers to complement it at LAUNCH in holiday 2020 is a good idea. That would just drive more people to erroneously buy the Xbox One X.

Or the competition.

I totally disagree. The target consumer of a potential Lockhart SKU isn't looking to buy brand new hardware at launch anyway.

Series X is aimed at the core gaming market, $500 is what one in that demographic could expect to spend for a high end console at launch and FWIW I expect PS5 to be similar in power and price and both SKU's to sell out their launch allocations.

Temp_User · Dec 19, 2019

tapedeck said:
I totally disagree. The target consumer of a potential Lockhart SKU isn't looking to buy brand new hardware at launch anyway.

Series X is aimed at the core gaming market, $500 is what one in that demographic could expect to spend for a high end console at launch and FWIW I expect PS5 to be similar in power and price and both SKU's to sell out their launch allocations.

No. I most likely expect the competition NOT to follow Xbox's lead whether its fragmenting its playerbase on or near launch with different SKU's or in pricing. Probably find that pricing vs specs sweet spot and attract both casual and hardcore.

tapedeck · Dec 19, 2019

Temp_User said:
No. I most likely expect the competition NOT to follow Xbox's lead whether its fragmenting its playerbase on or near launch with different SKU's or in pricing. Probably find that pricing vs specs sweet spot and attract both casual and hardcore.

But MS isn't launching Lockhart alongside Series X, that's my whole point they're just gonna aim for the core market at launch. My guess is XSX is $499..I think Sony will be similar in price/power and both will sell very well. If you disagree fine but the rumors so far certainly support my post.

Temp_User · Dec 19, 2019

tapedeck said:
But MS isn't launching Lockhart alongside Series X, that's my whole point they're just gonna aim for the core market at launch. My guess is XSX is $499..I think Sony will be similar in price/power and both will sell very well. If you disagree fine but the rumors so far certainly support my post.

And that's a bad plan focusing solely on the hardcore. Don't just leave potential next-gen Xbox casual buyers hanging and waiting for nothing until 2021. I mean from what i hear from the competition, the rumors suggest that they are releasing the high-end and low-end SKU version of their consoles AT THE SAME TIME. They would be able to build their playerbase much quicker.

Remember, the competition don't have a confusing naming problem like the Xbox Series X. Potential next-gen Xbox casual buyers looking to play Halo Infinite might erroneously buy and/or impulse buy the old-gen Xbox One X while waiting for that low-end next gen Xbox console to arrive.

(Fragmenting your playerbase via releasing console versions with downgraded specs early on its life is a sh1t thing to do regardless who does it if you ask me.)

tapedeck · Dec 19, 2019

Temp_User said:
And that's a bad plan focusing solely on the hardcore. Don't just leave potential next-gen Xbox casual buyers hanging and waiting for nothing until 2021. I mean from what i hear from the competition, the rumors suggest that they are releasing the high-end and low-end SKU version of their consoles AT THE SAME TIME. They would be able to build their playerbase much quicker.

Remember, the competition don't have a confusing naming problem like the Xbox Series X. Potential next-gen Xbox casual buyers looking to play Halo Infinite might erroneously buy and/or impulse buy the old-gen Xbox One X while waiting for that low-end next gen Xbox console to arrive.

(Fragmenting your playerbase via releasing console versions with downgraded specs early on its life is a sh1t thing to do regardless who does it if you ask me.)

The most recent rumors suggest they aren't launching Lockhart alongside Scarlett..it's likely coming Fall 2021 or maybe even later. That's enough time to establish Series X install base as the 'main' platform and have Lockhart grab the more causal demographic after the launch dust has settled. My guess is Lockhart (if it is indeed still coming) will marketed as an inexpensive streaming box with the ability to play 'next gen' games.

And for people 'accidentally' buying a One X...I think that point is way over-stated. Consumers really aren't that dumb and I bet MS will be ceasing production on 1X's by next spring anyway.

Temp_User · Dec 19, 2019

tapedeck said:
The most recent rumors suggest they aren't launching Lockhart alongside Scarlett..it's likely coming Fall 2021 or maybe even later. That's enough time to establish Series X install base as the 'main' platform and have Lockhart grab the more causal demographic after the launch dust has settled. My guess is Lockhart (if it is indeed still coming) will marketed as an inexpensive streaming box with the ability to play 'next gen' games.

Even worse. I thought at least maybe a 3mos delay but a full year for the low-end, next gen console to arrive??? The competition, assuming the 2 SKU at launch rumor from Zenji Nishikawa is true, will OWN the casual buying and penny-pinching gamer crowd as well as take a chunk from the hardcore.

tapedeck said:
And for people 'accidentally' buying a One X...I think that point is way over-stated. Consumers really aren't that dumb and I bet MS will be ceasing production on 1X's by next spring anyway.

Just gonna copy and paste my previous answer:
But the name (and the suffix) of Xbox One X makes it appear that it is part of the next gen Xbox Series X. "Series" is a rather generic descriptive term used to denote a product line and the "One" being the first of its kind. The fact that it can play Halo Infinite, the flagship title of the next gen Xbox reinforces that erroneous thinking. Why leave such a glaring buying pitfall for your casual consumers when you could just fix the name or come up with a less confusing, non-memeable (ie. XSex) one on the first place?

Trup1aya · Dec 19, 2019

Temp_User said:
But the name (and the suffix) of Xbox One X makes it appear that it is part of the next gen Xbox Series X. "Series" is a rather generic descriptive term used to denote a product line and the "One" being the first of its kind. The fact that it can play Halo Infinite, the flagship title of the next gen Xbox reinforces that erroneous thinking. Why leave such a glaring buying pitfall for your casual consumers when you could just fix the name or come up with a less confusing, non-memeable (ie. XSex) one on the first place?

This is your take on how it appears, a full year before MS begins the information campaign to educate the public on their brand conventions going forward.

There's no reason, beyond manufactured concern, that MS won't make a clear enough distiction between Xbox One and this new series of Xbox.

Its simple enough to tell folks that the Xbox One Family is being succeeded by a new approach - one that is spearheaded by Series X and Series S.

The whole Halo Infinite angle of your argument is dubious... it's just a cross gen game- we've been here before.

The next gen Xbox is not selling itself in a vacuum in holiday 2020. Its going head-to-head with the console market leader with only a high-end $500 console? That is stupid. Bye-bye adoption rates. Are casual buyers not important anymore for MS? Its needs a low-end version of its next gen console for this people but then like i mentioned earlier 2 SKU's on (or near) launch is a bad idea.

Who is saying anything about a vacuum? At launch, it's basically guaranteed that the adoption rate will equal the shipment rate. Day 1 adopters are not casual buyers. Yeah MS does need a low end option for casuals, but it doesn't need to be the focus of day 1. Historically, casual adopters don't buy into new console generations until well after launch. Until then, they are content to play cross gen games on whatever system they already own.

Its mitigated somewhat today but weak hardware and its effects are still a very real thing and game slowdowns to compensate for the hardware downgrade would still lead to consumer disappointment. Of course, devs would probably try to mitigate these problems by using the less powerful, not-yet-released Xbox Series S specs as the baseline (especially if its closer to next gen competition's specs) instead of the more powerful Xbox Series X which means the early adopters of XSex will not get their moneys worth . . . . you know what maybe its better to launch the console with the most basic hardware and go up instead of starting strong and downgrade from there.

Devs will build game systems around the standard CPU and build graphical systems that scale to the different GPUs... basically they'll do what they've always done.

That work both ways. Why would a prospective casual buyer even look for a $500 console when Timmy's Halo Infinite game can be played on a cheaper console? The name sounds the same anyway.

The casual buyer will look at whatever console suits his/her needs. If all they want to play is Halo Infinite for the next 5 years then maybe they'll stick with the xbox one X. Maybe they'll wait until that $500 console comes down in price or until there's a cheaper SKU. Maybe they want to buy a more future proof console because they don't just want halo infinite , but will want its sequels. There are many ways to skin that cat. But casuals aren't the focal point of a console launch.

The name sounding "similar" has nothing to do with how consumers will generally decide. Few consumers, casual or not, are going to spend hundreds of bucks on electronics without understanding what they offer.

Temp_User · Dec 20, 2019

Trup1aya said:
This is your take on how it appears, a full year before MS begins the information campaign to educate the public on their brand conventions going forward.

There's no reason, beyond manufactured concern, that MS won't make a clear enough distiction between Xbox One and this new series of Xbox.

Its simple enough to tell folks that the Xbox One Family is being succeeded by a new approach - one that is spearheaded by Series X and Series S.

Yep, the "One" being part of the "Series" is INDEED my take aka interpretation to the confusing next-gen Xbox branding and its progression going forward. Here is a different but also erroneous interpretation:

https://www.denofgeek.com/us/games/xbox/285008/xbox-series-x-console-name

The confusion in this instance seemed to stem from the idea that Microsoft may be using the phrase (Series X) as a naming convention for a series of next-gen consoles and not just one device. In other words, there was a theory that they may pivot away from the Xbox brand and just use "Series X" to identify their next consoles. However, this statement confirms that Series X is just the name of a single console.

Both my interpretation and the link content above does not indeed align with what Microsoft's explanation with the branding and guess what that's a problem. When your branding is open to wildly different, "erroneous" interpretations by your consumers - even by the gaming-savvy types - it unequivocally means your branding, "Xbox Series X", is shit confusing.

The competition got MS wasting time and money making information campaigns reminding people on how to correctly read and understand the naming convention of the next-gen Xbox while doing absolutely nothing. That's a great way to start the next console war.

Trup1aya said:
The whole Halo Infinite angle of your argument is dubious... it's just a cross gen game- we've been here before.

Who is saying anything about a vacuum? At launch, it's basically guaranteed that the adoption rate will equal the shipment rate. Day 1 adopters are not casual buyers. Yeah MS does need a low end option for casuals, but it doesn't need to be the focus of day 1. Historically, casual adopters don't buy into new console generations until well after launch. Until then, they are content to play cross gen games on whatever system they already own.

There will be consumers on holiday 2020 who will go to their retailers NOT looking for the "new Xbox" but rather the "new Halo".
And given:

the confusing name between the Xbox One X and Xbox Series X
the assumed $500 price tag of the Xbox Series X
the apparent lack of a low-end next-gen Xbox option(Xbox Series S for holiday 2021 apparently) for casual consumers on holiday 2020

. . . . there will be casual consumers who will make the poor gaming investment of buying the old-gen Xbox One X just to play Halo Infinite.

Trup1aya said:
Devs will build game systems around the standard CPU and build graphical systems that scale to the different GPUs... basically they'll do what they've always done.

Yes and games doing GPU down-scaling creates unpleasant effects most noticeably at least for me is the framerate drops and slowdowns of certain games from the Pro and One X to the base PS4 and Xbone is quite noticeable. Its better to start with the base and GPU-upscale the graphics for a more powerful console.

Trup1aya said:
The casual buyer will look at whatever console suits his/her needs. If all they want to play is Halo Infinite for the next 5 years then maybe they'll stick with the xbox one X. Maybe they'll wait until that $500 console comes down in price or until there's a cheaper SKU. Maybe they want to buy a more future proof console because they don't just want halo infinite , but will want its sequels. There are many ways to skin that cat. But casuals aren't the focal point of a console launch.

The name sounding "similar" has nothing to do with how consumers will generally decide. Few consumers, casual or not, are going to spend hundreds of bucks on electronics without understanding what they offer.

That's just the kind of attitude that will drive casual gamers into the competition's embrace. The competition, assuming the 2 SKU (high-end and low-end) at holiday 2020 launch rumor from Zenji Nishikawa is true, will OWN the casual buying and penny-pinching gamer crowd as well as take a huge chunk of the hardcore away from Xbox. The low-end next-gen Xbox is rumored toonly be set for release on holiday 2021.

Trup1aya · Dec 20, 2019

Temp_User said:
Yep, the "One" being part of the "Series" is INDEED my take aka interpretation to the confusing next-gen Xbox branding and its progression going forward. Here is a different but also erroneous interpretation:

https://www.denofgeek.com/us/games/xbox/285008/xbox-series-x-console-name
The confusion in this instance seemed to stem from the idea that Microsoft may be using the phrase (Series X) as a naming convention for a series of next-gen consoles and not just one device. In other words, there was a theory that they may pivot away from the Xbox brand and just use "Series X" to identify their next consoles. However, this statement confirms that Series X is just the name of a single console.

Both my interpretation and the link content above does not indeed align with what Microsoft's explanation with the branding and guess what that's a problem. When your branding is open to wildly different, "erroneous" interpretations by your consumers - even by the gaming-savvy types - it unequivocally means your branding, "Xbox Series X", is shit confusing.

The competition got MS wasting time and money making information campaigns reminding people on how to correctly read and understand the naming convention of the next-gen Xbox while doing absolutely nothing. That's a great way to start the next console war.

Nah, don't quote Den of geek, who is inexplicably misinterpreting another article. Go to the actual source.

The next-generation Xbox has a much simpler name than you might think: It's actually just 'Xbox'

It was introduced as the "Xbox Series X," but the way that name was presented made it look like the console generation was actually just named "Xbox."

That is the case, Microsoft confirmed to Business Insider. The next-generation Xbox consoles are named "Xbox," starting with the Xbox Series X.

"The name we're carrying forward to the next generation is simply Xbox," a Microsoft representative told Business Insider, adding that "the name 'Xbox Series X' allows room for additional consoles in the future."

The take away is that going forward all consoles are simply Xbox. "Series X" will refer to a line of high end Xboxes, starting with the model releasing in 2020.

MS is changing their approach to branding. Anytime There's change, there's bound to be initial confusion, but that will subside long before a device lands on shelfs. Long-term, these initial moments will have had a negligible effect on mindshare. No customer is going to make a purchase, Holiday 2020, based soley on this DenofGeek article from a year prior.

There will be consumers on holiday 2020 who will go to their retailers NOT looking for the "new Xbox" but rather the "new Halo".
And given:

the confusing name between the Xbox One X and Xbox Series X

the assumed $500 price tag of the Xbox Series X

the apparent lack of a low-end next-gen Xbox option(Xbox Series S for holiday 2021 apparently) for casual consumers on holiday 2020

. . . . there will be casual consumers who will make the poor gaming investment of buying the old-gen Xbox One X just to play Halo Infinite.

This wouldnt be a "poor investment", it would be a typical purchasing decision for many casual gamers at the end of a generational cycle. They buy whatever suits their needs and budget. if he/she only wants to play Halo Infinite, then getting a last-gen console capable of playing the cross-gen game is a valid option. Hell, they could buy a used xbox one S, and that would also be a valid option. But this person won't be confused into thinking their purchase is future proof: It will be abundantly clear that they are buying a last gen console. This stereotype that casual gamers are ignorant morons needs to stop.

Yes and games doing GPU down-scaling creates unpleasant effects most noticeably at least for me is the framerate drops and slowdowns of certain games from the Pro and One X to the base PS4 and Xbone is quite noticeable. Its better to start with the base and GPU-upscale the graphics for a more powerful console.

I don't know what to tell you. What your seeing is pre-2013 hardware being pushed to its absolutle limits 6 years after it landed on shelves. This would happen even if Xbox One X and Pro never existed. Most Developers make their games as multiplatform, including PC. The need to design games around varied graphics capabilities doesn't go away if MS only has one SKU. What we've seen is devs starting with the high-end, then scaling down, to great effect. On xbox games like Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 look and run amazingly well on the OG Xbox One, despite this approach, perhaps BECAUSE of this approach.

That's just the kind of attitude that will drive casual gamers into the competition's embrace. The competition, assuming the 2 SKU (high-end and low-end) at holiday 2020 launch rumor from Zenji Nishikawa is true, will OWN the casual buying and penny-pinching gamer crowd as well as take a huge chunk of the hardcore away from Xbox. The low-end next-gen Xbox is rumored toonly be set for release on holiday 2021.

No it isn't. Casual, penny-pinching gamers don't buy consoles at launch. Fighting crowds to snatch up supply-limited electronics while they are at the highest price they'll ever be is the exact opposite of being casual , penny-pincher. If the Series S is also available holiday 2020, then core gamers will be the ones buying up both models. Causual penny-pinchers wait for price drops and stocked shelves. We see this exact behavior exhibited EVERYTIME.

I think Holiday 2021 is a bit late for a low end model (Q1-Q2 2021 would make much more sense because they'd have a new product launch to buzz about just as Series X shipments start to lineup with demand, and the switch has showed us that Spring launches work). But it would ultimately be just fine since the bulk of sales will happen during the holidays anyway.

Temp_User · Dec 20, 2019

Trup1aya said:
Nah, don't quote Den of geek, who is inexplicably misinterpreting another article. Go to the actual source.

The next-generation Xbox has a much simpler name than you might think: It's actually just 'Xbox'

The take away is that going forward all consoles are simply Xbox. "Series X" will refer to a line of high end Xboxes, starting with the model releasing in 2020.

MS is changing their approach to branding. Anytime There's change, there's bound to be initial confusion, but that will subside long before a device lands on shelfs. Long-term, these initial moments will have had a negligible effect on mindshare. No customer is going to make a purchase, Holiday 2020, based soley on this DenofGeek article from a year prior.

The Business Insider content is just PR. I picked the DenofGeek link because it offers a critique of that PR (and a different read/interpretation on the Xbox Series X to illustrate my point).

When your branding is unclear enough to have wildly different, "erroneous" interpretations by your potential consumers - even by the gaming-savvy types - that Microsoft have to issue a followup press release days after it unveiling telling people how to interpret it "correctly" . . . . then that branding/marketing unequivocally FAILED. It should be replaced. Maybe changing the Xbox's approach to branding is not a good idea after all.

Trup1aya said:
This wouldnt be a "poor investment", it would be a typical purchasing decision for many casual gamers at the end of a generational cycle. They buy whatever suits their needs and budget. if he/she only wants to play Halo Infinite, then getting a last-gen console capable of playing the cross-gen game is a valid option. Hell, they could buy a used xbox one S, and that would also be a valid option. But this person won't be confused into thinking their purchase is future proof: It will be abundantly clear that they are buying a last gen console. This stereotype that casual gamers are ignorant morons needs to stop.

Trup1aya said:
No it isn't. Casual, penny-pinching gamers don't buy consoles at launch. Fighting crowds to snatch up supply-limited electronics while they are at the highest price they'll ever be is the exact opposite of being casual , penny-pincher. If the Series S is also available holiday 2020, then core gamers will be the ones buying up both models. Causual penny-pinchers wait for price drops and stocked shelves. We see this exact behavior exhibited EVERYTIME.

I think Holiday 2021 is a bit late for a low end model (Q1-Q2 2021 would make much more sense because they'd have a new product launch to buzz about just as Series X shipments start to lineup with demand, and the switch has showed us that Spring launches work). But it would ultimately be just fine since the bulk of sales will happen during the holidays anyway.

As a console maker, you're suppose to make it easy for potential buyers even casual buyers to be on-board to your next-gen console and not condescendingly tell them to buy your old-gen console to play Halo Infinite or any crossgen game. It makes you wonder if Don "We have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity, it's called Xbox 360." Mattrick is merely a product of the Xbox work culture instead of being one of a kind douche.

If you put a confusing name on the box of the next-gen Xbox, make it difficult to fit in a home entertainment setup, hike its price to $500 w/o providing a cheaper low-end option then those partially-ignorant casual buyers/gamers would just wise up and buy from the competition instead. After all they offer better value to their gaming investment as they are rumored to release a cheaper, low-end next-gen console on holiday 2020 instead of dismissively telling them to play cross-gen games on an old-gen console.

Trup1aya said:
I don't know what to tell you. What your seeing is pre-2013 hardware being pushed to its absolutle limits 6 years after it landed on shelves. This would happen even if Xbox One X and Pro never existed. Most Developers make their games as multiplatform, including PC. The need to design games around varied graphics capabilities doesn't go away if MS only has one SKU. What we've seen is devs starting with the high-end, then scaling down, to great effect. On xbox games like Gears 5 and Forza Horizon 4 look and run amazingly well on the OG Xbox One, despite this approach, perhaps BECAUSE of this approach.

Devs often go broke high-scaling the textures and other assets beyond whats necessary but your downscale options and how further down you can go depends on the memory and other hardware specs that you're willing to support. Setting the base specs (and acceptable performance) is more important than worrying how high res or advance your game could go. This is why having multiple SKU's and the process to determine on whether they are worth targetting by the dev team a pain in the ass especially in PC and even with modern dev tools.

Which is why using the rumored, low-end, next-gen model, the Xbox Series S, as the base spec requirement for Xbox games is better as its median position in terms of specs, allows you to extend down the minimum spec requirements to include old-gen further than starting from the high-end Xbox Series X. That's why assuming the Xbox Series S has to exist, its important it should be released on holiday 2020 too.

Trup1aya · Dec 20, 2019

Temp_User said:
The Business Insider content is just PR. I picked the DenofGeek link because it offers a critique of that PR (and a different read/interpretation on the Xbox Series X to illustrate my point).

When your branding is unclear enough to have wildly different, "erroneous" interpretations by your potential consumers - even by the gaming-savvy types - that Microsoft have to issue a followup press release days after it unveiling telling people how to interpret it "correctly" . . . . then that branding/marketing unequivocally FAILED. It should be replaced. Maybe changing the Xbox's approach to branding is not a good idea after all.

Are you really arguing PR is a less reliable source than an article derived film the very same PR?

Are you really argue that MS failed to market this product when it's a full year from ever hitting the market? We'll know whether or not they failed in a year based on whether or not it attracts a lot of early adopters (hint: it will)

Suggesting they should replace their entire branding because some people got the wrong impression after a teaser reveal is a gross over reaction.

As a console maker, you're suppose to make it easy for potential buyers even casual buyers to be on-board to your next-gen console and not condescendingly tell them to buy your old-gen console to play Halo Infinite or any crossgen game. It makes you wonder if Don "We have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity, it's called Xbox 360." Mattrick is merely a product of the Xbox work culture instead of being one of a kind douche.

Who has been condescendingly told to buy anything? Casual players arent early adopters. And people who "only want to play Halo Infinite" wont make up a significant number of launch adopters... even if there was a low end option available at launch. How many people do you honestly think will pay early adopter prices to buy into a new generation, when all they want to play is one game that is available on a last gen console? You're suggesting they should cater to a demographic that doesn't exist.

Casual players buy console late gen all the time. Why? Because they are casual players. They arent moved by a need for the latest tech, or the fanciest graphics. As such, there's really no benefit to ANYONE by having a cheaper SKU available at launch... because core players are going to buy up all of the available stock of every SKU.

If you put a confusing name on the box of the next-gen Xbox, make it difficult to fit in a home entertainment setup, hike its price to $500 w/o providing a cheaper low-end option then those partially-ignorant casual buyers/gamers would just wise up and buy from the competition instead. After all they offer better value to their gaming investment as they are rumored to release a cheaper, low-end next-gen console on holiday 2020 instead of dismissively telling them to play cross-gen games on an old-gen console.

The name "xbox" isn't confusing. Neither is the concept of offering a high end"X" and low end "S" version of said Xbox

The box doesn't appear difficult to fit in an entertainment system

Partially-ignorant/casual buyers won't be buying the competitor either because for the first year, everyone's entire stock will also be entirely consumed by harcore and core gamers, regardless of how many SKUs are available.

Again, casuals aren't being told not to early- adopt... casuals simply don't early adopt... because they are casuals.
[/quote]

Devs often go broke high-scaling the textures and other assets beyond whats necessary but your downscale options and how further down you can go depends on the memory and other hardware specs that you're willing to support. Setting the base specs (and acceptable performance) is more important than worrying how high res or advance your game could go. This is why having multiple SKU's and the process to determine on whether they are worth targetting by the dev team a pain in the ass especially in PC and even with modern dev tools.

Which is why using the rumored, low-end, next-gen model, the Xbox Series S, as the base spec requirement for Xbox games is better as its median position in terms of specs, allows you to extend down the minimum spec requirements to include old-gen further than starting from the high-end Xbox Series X. That's why assuming the Xbox Series S has to exist, its important it should be released on holiday 2020 too.

Dev's are doing just fine working from the top down. They'll continue to do so. The support for the old gen isn't supposed to last forever (it's funny you even mention this considering you think its condescending to suggest casuals would by an xbox one x to play cross-gen games)

At the optimal price points, There's no benefit to having the low end version release holiday 2020. It would just lead to an inability to meet demand for the high-end version. Which means the most excited, loyal and valuable customers will be unable to get the console they want, thus settling for the budget version... if not going to the competitio . Meanwhile, casuals will be waiting for next years sales, bundles & price drops... like they always do.

Temp_User · Dec 21, 2019

Trup1aya said:
Are you really arguing PR is a less reliable source than an article derived film the very same PR?

Are you really argue that MS failed to market this product when it's a full year from ever hitting the market? We'll know whether or not they failed in a year based on whether or not it attracts a lot of early adopters (hint: it will)

Suggesting they should replace their entire branding because some people got the wrong impression after a teaser reveal is a gross over reaction.

PR alone without context means nothing. That's why i like the critique provided in the aforementioned article.

Also, if MS are planning to do away with console generations, there won't be much chance for a restart. They better nail the messaging of that brand and its forward progression right from the start and in a clear and understandable manner. The fact that it turns out that "Xbox" alone is their intended next-gen brand but decided to add confusing suffixes like "Series X" that only serves to conflate it with the old-gen Xbox One X when there are a ton of different other suffixes that could've been used instead shows that things are not working as it should in the marketing department.

The competition is in a market leader position and has a ton of goodwill from the gaming playerbase. Dont give them anymore advantages in getting-in early adopters by flubbing Xbox's branding and wasting time and money making repeated PR statements "clarifying" it. Just fix it. Its still early in the game. Dont wait for the preorder sales tallies before fixing things.

Trup1aya said:
Who has been condescendingly told to buy anything? Casual players arent early adopters. And people who "only want to play Halo Infinite" wont make up a significant number of launch adopters... even if there was a low end option available at launch. How many people do you honestly think will pay early adopter prices to buy into a new generation, when all they want to play is one game that is available on a last gen console? You're suggesting they should cater to a demographic that doesn't exist.

Casual players buy console late gen all the time. Why? Because they are casual players. They arent moved by a need for the latest tech, or the fanciest graphics. As such, there's really no benefit to ANYONE by having a cheaper SKU available at launch... because core players are going to buy up all of the available stock of every SKU.

Casual buyers/gamers are not going to be early adopters only if you price them out of your $500 next-gen console and don't reach out to them. They only wait late gen for a price drop but lucky for them and unlike Xbox, the competition seems to be providing a less-pricey next-gen console option at launch in holiday 2020 to buy for their own or buy them as a gift for someone.

And judging from the lack of launch success of the Xbone and the 3rd console of the competition, a $500 price tag is a pretty tough sell even for the hardcore types. There is a clear benefit for having a cheap SKU available at launch.

Trup1aya said:
The name "xbox" isn't confusing. Neither is the concept of offering a high end"X" and low end "S" version of said Xbox

MS doing followup PR releases explaining the name/branding says otherwise. See above.

Trup1aya said:
The box doesn't appear difficult to fit in an entertainment system

What? its pretty obvious. Its designed as a PC tower so of course its not going to easily fit in an entertainment setup. It has to be out in the open like in the floor, on top of a table or alongside the TV. You could place it on the side but its going to be a tight fit for most entertainment setups with only an inch or two of clearance for the fan to blow out the heat . . . . a recipe for overheating.

Trup1aya said:
Partially-ignorant/casual buyers won't be buying the competitor either because for the first year, everyone's entire stock will also be entirely consumed by harcore and core gamers, regardless of how many SKUs are available.

Again, casuals aren't being told not to early- adopt... casuals simply don't early adopt... because they are casuals.

See above and just to add more, hardcore gamers grow from casual gamers and if you lower the price of adoption for your console right from the start at launch, you would have more of this transformation from casual to hardcore types early in your consoles lifetime that are willing to invest much on your console ecosystem. At the same time, a hardcore gamer can revert back to becoming a casual gamer(buy the low-end version, wait for a price drop) or non-gamer if the console price is too high and with no other options.

Trup1aya said:
Dev's are doing just fine working from the top down. They'll continue to do so. The support for the old gen isn't supposed to last forever (it's funny you even mention this considering you think its condescending to suggest casuals would by an xbox one x to play cross-gen games)

Like i said before, devs overdo the quality of textures and other assets but they need to choose a good baseline specs to maintain a certain level of quality (visuals, performance etc.) to make the down scale. Adding old-gen backward compatibility into the mix makes things more complicated which is why basing the baseline specs to the rumored low-end next gen console, Xbox Series S is preferable rather than the Xbox Series X. Thats why its a mistake to delay its release on holiday 2021.

Also, no dev want to showcase their work running on the basis of backward compatibility. That's why as much as possible, games like Halo Infinite should be played by more people on next-gen console but due to Xbox's rumored rather self-defeating launch policy of delaying the Xbox Series S and the rather confusing name of Xbox Series X, it seems that a lot of Halo fans would have to make do of playing it on Xbox One X either by mistake or because there was no other cheaper option. Don't do it like Don Mattrick and use the old-gen console to cover for the next-gen.

Trup1aya said:
At the optimal price points, There's no benefit to having the low end version release holiday 2020. It would just lead to an inability to meet demand for the high-end version. Which means the most excited, loyal and valuable customers will be unable to get the console they want, thus settling for the budget version... if not going to the competitio . Meanwhile, casuals will be waiting for next years sales, bundles & price drops... like they always do.

It makes you wonder if MS is encountering production or supply problems if the rumors are true in that they have to delay the the low-end, next-gen, Xbox Series S to holiday 2021 instead of releasing it alongside the Xbox Series X in holiday 2020 because the competition is rumored to be fine releasing them at the same time to cater to both casuals and hardcore. See above also.

Trup1aya · Dec 21, 2019

Temp_User said:
PR alone without context means nothing. That's why i like the critique provided in the aforementioned article.

Also, if MS are planning to do away with console generations, there won't be much chance for a restart. They better nail the messaging of that brand and its forward progression right from the start and in a clear and understandable manner. The fact that it turns out that "Xbox" alone is their intended next-gen brand but decided to add confusing suffixes like "Series X" that only serves to conflate it with the old-gen Xbox One X when there are a ton of different other suffixes that could've been used instead shows that things are not working as it should in the marketing department.

The competition is in a market leader position and has a ton of goodwill from the gaming playerbase. Dont give them anymore advantages in getting-in early adopters by flubbing Xbox's branding and wasting time and money making repeated PR statements "clarifying" it. Just fix it. Its still early in the game. Dont wait for the preorder sales tallies before fixing things.

There has been no early advantage ceded. There has been no flub. There has been a generally well recieved teaser and some people overreacting to not having all of the information 11-12 months before it really matters.

Casual buyers/gamers are not going to be early adopters only if you price them out of your $500 next-gen console and don't reach out to them. They only wait late gen for a price drop but lucky for them and unlike Xbox, the competition seems to be providing a less-pricey next-gen console option at launch in holiday 2020 to buy for their own or buy them as a gift for someone.

And judging from the lack of launch success of the Xbone and the 3rd console of the competition, a $500 price tag is a pretty tough sell even for the hardcore types. There is a clear benefit for having a cheap SKU available at launch.

Nah. You have a fundamental misunderstand of how console cycles have worked historically. Casual gamers don't skip launch just because of price- it's also because of availability, catalog, and because their casual interest doesn't warrant jumping out early. Even if a "cheap SKU" is available it will still be the highest price point that SKU will ever have, and it will still be gobbled up by hardcore fans. And causuals will still wait for a price drop.

MS doing followup PR releases explaining the name/branding says otherwise. See above.

New branding concept needs explaining beyond a single splash screen? Shocker!

What? its pretty obvious. Its designed as a PC tower so of course its not going to easily fit in an entertainment setup. It has to be out in the open like in the floor, on top of a table or alongside the TV. You could place it on the side but its going to be a tight fit for most entertainment setups with only an inch or two of clearance for the fan to blow out the heat . . . . a recipe for overheating.

I guess I misunderstood your critique. I don't think anyone pining for a top-of-the-line multimedia experience will have trouble getting this into their entertainment setup. Positioned horizontally, it'll fit most centers just fine.

See above and just to add more, hardcore gamers grow from casual gamers and if you lower the price of adoption for your console right from the start at launch, you would have more of this transformation from casual to hardcore types early in your consoles lifetime that are willing to invest much on your console ecosystem. At the same time, a hardcore gamer can revert back to becoming a casual gamer(buy the low-end version, wait for a price drop) or non-gamer if the console price is too high and with no other options.

Again,This isn't how it works. This is never how it works. At launch, supplies are limited, and it's the core fans who buy up all of the supply- because they are the ones most loyal to the brand and most excited about the new tech. Lower prices at launch would just means core fans will be spending less. Causal fans get involved when supply stops being outstripped by demand and when the price drops. Undoubtedly, this is precisely the time MS would be dropping their cheaper SKU.

Like i said before, devs overdo the quality of textures and other assets but they need to choose a good baseline specs to maintain a certain level of quality (visuals, performance etc.) to make the down scale. Adding old-gen backward compatibility into the mix makes things more complicated which is why basing the baseline specs to the rumored low-end next gen console, Xbox Series S is preferable rather than the Xbox Series X. Thats why its a mistake to delay its release on holiday 2021.

Just as xbox one x became the lead platform, the same will be the case for the new high-end xbox. Its not a problem. Architecture and dev environment and visual pipeline will be similar enough that the downscale wont be problematic for developers. They've already been doing this for years, and MS is actively making that easier.

Also, no dev want to showcase their work running on the basis of backward compatibility. That's why as much as possible, games like Halo Infinite should be played by more people on next-gen console but due to Xbox's rumored rather self-defeating launch policy of delaying the Xbox Series S and the rather confusing name of Xbox Series X, it seems that a lot of Halo fans would have to make do of playing it on Xbox One X either by mistake or because there was no other cheaper option. Don't do it like Don Mattrick and use the old-gen console to cover for the next-gen.

It's a cross-gen game not a next gen game. There are 45 million xbox ones sold. The game will also be available on PC. During holiday 2020, how many next gen consoles to you think they could make and sell and how many do you think would fall into the hands of casuals, even at a $400 price tag? Recent history tells us 3-4.5 million...with core gamers buying virtually all of them.

No matter how many SKUs are available Holiday 2020, and no matter how cheap they are, the number of Halo fans who would be able to play on the New Xbox is limited by supply logistics and thus the player population on systems with mature installed bases will be high.

The biggest halo fans are the biggest xbox fans and will be a major reason series x sells out at launch. More casual fans, as always, will play it on a system they already own until next gen consoles become cheaper and more readily available. Late adopters might buy a cheap xbox one as a low risk way to get in on the action. This notion that anyone will be pressured to by xbox one X's just to play this game isn't based in reality. This is standard procedure for cross-gen gamers... confusion will not be a factor.

Besides all that. No one expects cross-gen games to be next gen technical showcases. MS is, rightfully, more concerned with making sure lots of people can play Halo Infinite across multiple platforms, than they are about getting casuals to play it on Series X during the holidays.

It makes you wonder if MS is encountering production or supply problems if the rumors are true in that they have to delay the the low-end, next-gen, Xbox Series S to holiday 2021 instead of releasing it alongside the Xbox Series X in holiday 2020 because the competition is rumored to be fine releasing them at the same time to cater to both casuals and hardcore. See above also.

There is no catering to casuals at launch, because casuals don't come out for launch. If youhave the capacity to produce and ship 5,000,000 units in 3 monthsand you have 5,000,000 diehard fans willing to pay $500 for it immediately, there's no benefit in selling some of them for $400. Your still going to sell the exact same number of units to the exact same people.

jdrch · Dec 22, 2019

CrimsonNocturne said:
Here is a handy size comparison assuming the dimensions in OP are accurate.:

This comparison is (intentionally?) deceptive. It compares the same Series X dimension (vertical height) twice vs. both the width and depth of other consoles. The reality is that the Series X has a smaller footprint (when viewed from above in its default configuration) than all of the other consoles. The 3rd pic should show a square for the Series X that is smaller than the other machines.

Temp_User · Dec 31, 2019

Trup1aya said:
There has been no early advantage ceded. There has been no flub. There has been a generally well recieved teaser and some people overreacting to not having all of the information 11-12 months before it really matters.

I'm pretty sure that many marketing people would call the fact that the bad/confusing and meme-able name of the Xbox Series X taking a huge chunk of the discussion post-reveal instead of Hellblade 2 or even its capabilities would constitute a marketing flub. Its harsh but you do only get one chance to make a first impression. The fact that MS have to do followup PR releases trying to "explain" how the name works shows they are aware of the problem. They could fix this 11mos. early if they want to. Its really simple to do and could turn that lackluster first impression into a positive by showing that MS is listening. After all,"Xbox" is supposed to be the real console name/brand anyway, just change the throwaway "Series X" suffix.

Trup1aya said:
Nah. You have a fundamental misunderstand of how console cycles have worked historically. Casual gamers don't skip launch just because of price- it's also because of availability, catalog, and because their casual interest doesn't warrant jumping out early. Even if a "cheap SKU" is available it will still be the highest price point that SKU will ever have, and it will still be gobbled up by hardcore fans. And causuals will still wait for a price drop.

What? There are plenty of so-called "hardcore" gamers that skip console launches for the very same non-price related reasons you posted for "casuals". Gaming-savvy people avoid game launches specifically because they don't want to beta-test year one console hardware, wait for late deliveries and endure release catalog droughts in the first year. Being an early adopter is tough. Many of us learn not to be one from experience.

Here is a tip: Do not center your arguments on such outdated and unclear labels like "hardcore" or "casual" gamers. We ain't 13 anymore.

And yes, just like you're so-called "casual" gamers, you're so-called "hardcore" gamers DO WAIT for the price-drop. The pricing is still the main determining factor in console adoption rates regardless whatever type of gamer you are. According to the dude who created the term "Console Wars" and has a better grasp on its intricacies than either of us, the launch prices of new consoles are central to their success . . . . or failure. It turns out gamers actually wait for prices to drop a certain threshold historically before buying/adopting a console en-mass even with a stop gap cheaper, low-end SKU versions:

A "core version" of a new console has become a trade term for "a stripped down model sold for a lower price." The most common downgraded features are memory and hard disk size.

I found no evidence that a core version priced inside the Goldilocks Zone materially changed the fate of a platform whose primary configurations were priced above the appropriate window.

My theory about why: Gamers buy new systems in order to experience great new graphical and audio features, and to play the most stunning games. Core systems do add initial sales volume for manufacturers. But the trade-offs they offer limit the game experience on top titles, which makes these models a bad match for the passionate game fans who drive the console industry.

As the market matures core systems become obsolete very quickly, and users have learned that a little patience will give them the chance to buy a full-featured machine at the same price.

Turns out, a cheaper, low-end SKU like the rumored Xbox Series S is a waste of time as it is but releasing it a year late from Xbox Series X's "holiday 2020" launch seems even more wasteful as historically speaking, most gamers would just wait for the latter's price-cuts.

Trup1aya said:
New branding concept needs explaining beyond a single splash screen? Shocker!

Erm . . . . good branding concepts should technically be obvious and easy to understand even from just a single splash screen. Xbox's better named competition is not doing follow-up PR releases explaining that so-and-so is the real brandname.

Trup1aya said:
I guess I misunderstood your critique. I don't think anyone pining for a top-of-the-line multimedia experience will have trouble getting this into their entertainment setup. Positioned horizontally, it'll fit most centers just fine.

Xbox Series X is too tall that placing it at its side would leave the top vent too close to the walls and partitions of most entertainment setups and overheat. If i value the longevity of my XSeX console, i would probably have no choice but find a way to place it upright.

Trup1aya said:
Again,This isn't how it works. This is never how it works. At launch, supplies are limited, and it's the core fans who buy up all of the supply- because they are the ones most loyal to the brand and most excited about the new tech. Lower prices at launch would just means core fans will be spending less. Causal fans get involved when supply stops being outstripped by demand and when the price drops. Undoubtedly, this is precisely the time MS would be dropping their cheaper SKU.

Like i said earlier, this is wrong. See above.

Trup1aya said:
Just as xbox one x became the lead platform, the same will be the case for the new high-end xbox. Its not a problem. Architecture and dev environment and visual pipeline will be similar enough that the downscale wont be problematic for developers. They've already been doing this for years, and MS is actively making that easier.

Jason Schreier already talked to some devs about the rumored Lockhart/Xbox Series S. It is a problem. Its still a pain in the ass even with known tool chain improvements. You would still need to plan and anticipate stuff from the downgrade.

I've heard some skepticism from third-party developers, who are, like, "Hey, it's a pain in the ass to ship on multiple hardware SKUs. Second of all, this is going to hamper us, because Microsoft is requiring us to ship on this lower-powered version, that has the equivalent graphical power of a PS4 Pro." It's worth noting, that is has a higher-end CPU and a solid-state drive, and other next-gen features, so it's not safe to compare it directly to the PS4 Pro.

The way it's been described to me…I think [Lockhart] is going to have significantly less RAM, but the CPU makes a big difference, especially when it comes to framerate. The SSD makes a huge difference when it comes to loading times. So, I think what [devs] can do a lot of the time is knock down the texture quality, take a hit on the resolution, but you don't have to sacrifice framerate as much.

Unlike the myriad minimum PC configurations for a game, the weakest console sku's are always going to be the baseline for multiplat titles (especially if MS made it a requirement) and whatever hardware limitations it has will constrain game design and creativity. There are parts of a game like AI and NPC's that could not be auto-rescaled as easily as asset/texture resolutions between Xbox Series S and Xbox Series X. Really in an ideal dev world, an extra low-end console SKU shouldn't exist but assuming it has to exist, gimping on CPU, RAM, or GPU specs is not the way to go (storage and optical drive cuts are better).

Trup1aya said:
It's a cross-gen game not a next gen game. There are 45 million xbox ones sold. The game will also be available on PC. During holiday 2020, how many next gen consoles to you think they could make and sell and how many do you think would fall into the hands of casuals, even at a $400 price tag? Recent history tells us 3-4.5 million...with core gamers buying virtually all of them.

No matter how many SKUs are available Holiday 2020, and no matter how cheap they are, the number of Halo fans who would be able to play on the New Xbox is limited by supply logistics and thus the player population on systems with mature installed bases will be high.

The biggest halo fans are the biggest xbox fans and will be a major reason series x sells out at launch. More casual fans, as always, will play it on a system they already own until next gen consoles become cheaper and more readily available. Late adopters might buy a cheap xbox one as a low risk way to get in on the action. This notion that anyone will be pressured to by xbox one X's just to play this game isn't based in reality. This is standard procedure for cross-gen gamers... confusion will not be a factor.

Besides all that. No one expects cross-gen games to be next gen technical showcases. MS is, rightfully, more concerned with making sure lots of people can play Halo Infinite across multiple platforms, than they are about getting casuals to play it on Series X during the holidays.

This cross-gen mindset towards next-gen Xbox games would mean that Halo Infinite would look un-optimized and creatively constrained compared to the competition's next gen exclusives given it has to target multiple-specs including weaker ones. Look we all know Xbox is targetting as many platforms as possible with its Gamepass subscription and all but hyping on cross-gen play in today's 9th-console generation landscape is particularly a bad idea given that SSD, as a next-gen console standard, is going to be a game changer:

The problem is that, despite a drop in SSD pricing, there are still a whole lot of hard drives still out there in PC land. That means a lot of cross platform game developers will still be looking to target those spinning platters because of the broad HDD install base in PC gaming.

And that could hold back the PC being seen as a next-gen compatible gaming platform by devs targeting the lowest common tech denominator. That might see us getting the shitty end of the console port stick once again, with the PC versions being more akin to PS4 or Xbox One versions of a game rather than high-end PS5 or Series X iterations.

We could get lucky and there'll be SSD and HDD installs of PC ports, but that would require some effort from the developers and that level of expectation is always dangerous…

With SSD, next-gen console games are going to be designed with little to no asset loading tricks like elevator rides, forced walking and slow opening/closing door cutscenes. Unless given enough dev time and money to work around it, porting that same game to non-SSD PC or cross-gen to old consoles like Xbox One and PS4 is going to be extra rough with painful loading times on top of expected weak visuals and performance. The disappointment for mistakenly buying an old-gen console like Xbox One X instead of a new-gen like Xbox Series X just to play Halo Infinite is going to be acute as hell. MS should try to prevent people from making this mistake.

Trup1aya said:
There is no catering to casuals at launch, because casuals don't come out for launch. If youhave the capacity to produce and ship 5,000,000 units in 3 monthsand you have 5,000,000 diehard fans willing to pay $500 for it immediately, there's no benefit in selling some of them for $400. Your still going to sell the exact same number of units to the exact same people.

You're still conflating early adopters with "hardcore". See above links for why its outdated and inaccurate.

Trup1aya · Dec 31, 2019

Temp_User said:
I'm pretty sure that many marketing people would call the fact that the bad/confusing and meme-able name of the Xbox Series X taking a huge chunk of the discussion post-reveal instead of Hellblade 2 or even its capabilities would constitute a marketing flub. Its harsh but you do only get one chance to make a first impression. The fact that MS have to do followup PR releases trying to "explain" how the name works shows they are aware of the problem. They could fix this 11mos. early if they want to. Its really simple to do and could turn that lackluster first impression into a positive by showing that MS is listening. After all,"Xbox" is supposed to be the real console name/brand anyway, just change the throwaway "Series X" suffix.

It was a teaser my friend. The purpose was literally to spark intrigue and discussions. By all counts they succeeded in that. The notion that impressions have been "lackluster" is pure bias on your part. The result has been that people are eager to learn more, which they will with ample time before launch.

Also, Xbox IS the brand. Series X is a line within the brand. The Xbox Console that goes on sale Holiday 2020 will be in the Series X line.

What? There are plenty of so-called "hardcore" gamers that skip console launches for the very same non-price related reasons you posted for "casuals". Gaming-savvy people avoid game launches specifically because they don't want to beta-test year one console hardware, wait for late deliveries and endure release catalog droughts in the first year. Being an early adopter is tough. Many of us learn not to be one from experience.

I'm not sure where we are having a disconnect. Perhaps semantics? My point is that the number of units available for sale will be vastly exceeded by the number of people who want to be early adopters. This will be true for both Sony and MS.

Because of this, both companies will sell-through everything they can ship. And this will be true for at least 1 quarter. Because of this, the initial price difference won't have an impact on ultimate sales totals.

As long as MS can deliver a cheaper line of consoles BEFORE supply catches up with demand for the PS5 and the Series X, then there's no point in time where their highest asking price disadvantages them. This is of course assuming that the perception is that the device and experience it provides is worth what they are asking.

Here is a tip: Do not center your arguments on such outdated and unclear labels like "hardcore" or "casual" gamers. We ain't 13 anymore.

I'm not sure what our age has to do with anything. But Marketing folks differentiate between gamers who are casually interested in console hardware, and those who are the deepest fans and absolutely must have the latest console tech. You can call it whatever you want , but there's nothing unclear about it.

And yes, just like you're so-called "casual" gamers, you're so-called "hardcore" gamers DO WAIT for the price-drop. The pricing is still the main determining factor in console adoption rates regardless whatever type of gamer you are. According to the dude who created the term "Console Wars" and has a better grasp on its intricacies than either of us, the launch prices of new consoles are central to their success . . . . or failure. It turns out gamers actually wait for prices to drop a certain threshold historically before buying/adopting a console en-mass even with a stop gap cheaper, low-end SKU versions:

Obviously, there will be those who wait for price drops (I've said as much), out of neccesity due to supply, or due to financials, or due to value proposition. There will also be millions who will buy it as soon as they can. And those folks will tie up supply for a while. Obviously, price is ultimately the main determining factor in the long run... Which is why it's important that MS has a low price option available for when those who had been waiting become ready to buy. Which is exactly what the S series is.

Turns out, a cheaper, low-end SKU like the rumored Xbox Series S is a waste of time as it is but releasing it a year late from Xbox Series X's "holiday 2020" launch seems even more wasteful as historically speaking, most gamers would just wait for the latter's price-cuts.

Turns out? None of what you're saying is based on any historical precedent. As we've never seen this launch order.

If MS launches a console that's significantly cheaper than everything else on the market, but plays all of the latest games, at a fidelity that takes advantage of most TVs on the market. There's a strong chance it'll fair well. Series S is the price cut.

Erm . . . . good branding concepts should technically be obvious and easy to understand even from just a single splash screen. Xbox's better named competition is not doing follow-up PR releases explaining that so-and-so is the real brandname.

More biased overreaction. If people aren't understanding when it comes time to pre-order, then you'd have a point. The "race" isn't being lost or won by this teaser. At the end of the day, consumers know there's a new Xbox coming jn 2020, a successor to the Xbox one. There's nothing confusing about that.

Xbox Series X is too tall that placing it at its side would leave the top vent too close to the walls and partitions of most entertainment setups and overheat. If i value the longevity of my XSeX console, i would probably have no choice but find a way to place it upright.

This is a laughably dramatic take. Placed horizontally, it will be further away from the rear than pretty any other console. Oh wait, are you running with the idea that the vent on the top will be the entirety of the cooling solution? Cmon bruh, these guys made the Xbox one and Xbox one X with excellent cooling systems and you think they'd just forget that it needs to move hot air?

Like i said earlier, this is wrong. See above.

No it isn't and nothing you wrote above disproves any of it.

Jason Schreier already talked to some devs about the rumored Lockhart/Xbox Series S. It is a problem. Its still a pain in the ass even with known tool chain improvements. You would still need to plan and anticipate stuff from the downgrade.

Unlike the myriad minimum PC configurations for a game, the weakest console sku's are always going to be the baseline for multiplat titles (especially if MS made it a requirement) and whatever hardware limitations it has will constrain game design and creativity. There are parts of a game like AI and NPC's that could not be auto-rescaled as easily as asset/texture resolutions between Xbox Series S and Xbox Series X. Really in an ideal dev world, an extra low-end console SKU shouldn't exist but assuming it has to exist, gimping on CPU, RAM, or GPU specs is not the way to go (storage and optical drive cuts are better).

The systems will be designed such that cpu dependent tasks will have nearly identical resources to work with. Even looking at Jason's content should make this clear. The difference will be in the visuals- assets, effects, resolution.
And since smaller assets are being used and games being run a lower resolution, less RAM is necessary. The CPU is plenty beefy enough and the system balanced enough, that it's hard to see a reason why MS plan isn't feasible.

Yes, you'll have to plan for min specs, but that's no different than for any Multiplatform game. The Series S stands to be behind the minimum specs multiplatform dev's build games for.

This cross-gen mindset towards next-gen Xbox games would mean that Halo Infinite would look un-optimized and creatively constrained compared to the competition's next gen exclusives given it has to target multiple-specs including weaker ones. Look we all know Xbox is targetting as many platforms as possible with its Gamepass subscription and all but hyping on cross-gen play in today's 9th-console generation landscape is particularly a bad idea given that SSD, as a next-gen console standard, is going to be a game changer:

Whatever man! it's a single cross-gen game. It's not the only game MS is making. There will be next-gen only games as well, but Halo Infinite won't be one of them.

Again this is a extremely biased overreaction from you. The biggest multiplayer games of this gen can run on cell phones. The biggest FPS can run on the shittiest of PCs. The idea that it's a mistake to try to revitalize halo's MP relevance by ensuring as many people as possible can play it, is absolutely nonsensical. The mention of SSD is completely irrelevant here.

I have no idea what Halo Infinite will look like on Series X. But I'm pretty confident it'll be one of the better looking games released for Next-gen consoles holiday 2020 despite being built for xbox one.

With SSD, next-gen console games are going to be designed with little to no asset loading tricks like elevator rides, forced walking and slow opening/closing door cutscenes. Unless given enough dev time and money to work around it, porting that same game to non-SSD PC or cross-gen to old consoles like Xbox One and PS4 is going to be extra rough with painful loading times on top of expected weak visuals and performance. The disappointment for mistakenly buying an old-gen console like Xbox One X instead of a new-gen like Xbox Series X just to play Halo Infinite is going to be acute as hell. MS should try to prevent people from making this mistake.

Again, absolute hyperbole. People who spend less, expect less. The notion that people will be mistakenly buying old consoles, only to be disappointed by the performance requires some uncanny mental gymnastics. Sony was still manufacturing PS2s 6 years after the PS3 was released. I guess those people that created the demand for it were getting hoodwinked. Or is it more likely that they were able to get what they wanted from the old system, and were willing to wait for the new ones to become more attractive?

People will know that if they want to play the best version of Halo Infinite and any subsequent games they'll need a PC or series X.

they also know that if they "just want to play Halo Infinite" then they can go another route. And they'll know these other routes aren't necessarily future proof (which is fine if they truly only want to play one game).

This isn't rocket science. It's amazing to me that you think there's some significant mass of people who skipped Xbox One for the last 6 years, but want to play Halo Infinite so badly that they'll buy a brand new Xbox one X, one year from now, despite all the other ways to play it. Like, this is such a specifically asinine scenario that I'm bothered to be taking part in it.

You're still conflating early adopters with "hardcore". See above links for why its outdated and inaccurate.

Call them what you want. I think you and I both know the type of customer being discussed. That's all that matters.

Temp_User · Jan 3, 2020

Trup1aya said:
It was a teaser my friend. The purpose was literally to spark intrigue and discussions. By all counts they succeeded in that. The notion that impressions have been "lackluster" is pure bias on your part. The result has been that people are eager to learn more, which they will with ample time before launch.

Also, Xbox IS the brand. Series X is a line within the brand. The Xbox Console that goes on sale Holiday 2020 will be in the Series X line.

Microsoft could tease the machine and its specs but there is nothing to tease about the name once it is unveiled. The impression of the name Xbox Series X has been lackluster. Its bad and confusing. To illustrate:

Post-TGA reveal from Dec 12:

Post-BusinessInsider explanation of the name from Dec 17:

Then there's that Xbox End of the Year interview with Phil Spencer From Dec 23:

Microsoft sure is wasting too much PR time and effort trying to justify Xbox Series X name when it could be spent on something else more productive. Makes you question if it's really a clear and easy to understand brandname. You could always throw more time and money with blanket marketing but is it really worth it? Maybe its better to just drop the 'Series X' part and change it to something else?

Trup1aya said:
I'm not sure where we are having a disconnect. Perhaps semantics? My point is that the number of units available for sale will be vastly exceeded by the number of people who want to be early adopters. This will be true for both Sony and MS.

Because of this, both companies will sell-through everything they can ship. And this will be true for at least 1 quarter. Because of this, the initial price difference won't have an impact on ultimate sales totals.

As long as MS can deliver a cheaper line of consoles BEFORE supply catches up with demand for the PS5 and the Series X, then there's no point in time where their highest asking price disadvantages them. This is of course assuming that the perception is that the device and experience it provides is worth what they are asking.

I'm not sure what our age has to do with anything. But Marketing folks differentiate between gamers who are casually interested in console hardware, and those who are the deepest fans and absolutely must have the latest console tech. You can call it whatever you want , but there's nothing unclear about it.

Semantics LOL! Early adopters and "hardcore" gamers are not one and the same. You're adjective use of "hardcore" and "casual" was a mistake as there are plenty of "hardcore" gamers who doesn't want to early adopt new hardware and there are plenty of primarily FIFA and CoD gamers - aka the so-called "casual" gamers - who would get new-gen at launch.

Trup1aya said:
Obviously, there will be those who wait for price drops (I've said as much), out of neccesity due to supply, or due to financials, or due to value proposition. There will also be millions who will buy it as soon as they can. And those folks will tie up supply for a while. Obviously, price is ultimately the main determining factor in the long run... Which is why it's important that MS has a low price option available for when those who had been waiting become ready to buy. Which is exactly what the S series is.

Turns out? None of what you're saying is based on any historical precedent. As we've never seen this launch order.

If MS launches a console that's significantly cheaper than everything else on the market, but plays all of the latest games, at a fidelity that takes advantage of most TVs on the market. There's a strong chance it'll fair well. Series S is the price cut.

What do you mean no historical precedent? Have you not read the content i quoted from the the dude who coined the term "Console Wars" and actually historically analyzed console launches earlier? Here let me copy it again:
A "core version" of a new console has become a trade term for "a stripped down model sold for a lower price." The most common downgraded features are memory and hard disk size.

I found no evidence that a core version priced inside the Goldilocks Zone materially changed the fate of a platform whose primary configurations were priced above the appropriate window.

My theory about why: Gamers buy new systems in order to experience great new graphical and audio features, and to play the most stunning games. Core systems do add initial sales volume for manufacturers. But the trade-offs they offer limit the game experience on top titles, which makes these models a bad match for the passionate game fans who drive the console industry.

As the market matures core systems become obsolete very quickly, and users have learned that a little patience will give them the chance to buy a full-featured machine at the same price.

As historically demonstrated by both Xbox 360 Arcade(256MB storage) and Core(0MB storage), a "core"/gimped versions of a console does little to nothing to help MS in the console wars. These gimped consoles are even actively harming the gaming experience of the Xbox community as a whole as they force developers to strip features , scale down assets and world size, and/or waste time creating workarounds in their games to be able to make sure that their owners are not left behind. Its a known problem back then for Xbox gamers and devs . . . . its a mystery why Microsoft is repeating the same mistake again with the rumored under-powered(less RAM, underclocked CPU) Xbox Series S.

Trup1aya said:
More biased overreaction. If people aren't understanding when it comes time to pre-order, then you'd have a point. The "race" isn't being lost or won by this teaser. At the end of the day, consumers know there's a new Xbox coming jn 2020, a successor to the Xbox one. There's nothing confusing about that.

Both Xbox One X and Xbox Series X ARE successors to Xbox One just sayin. Both have similar names, billed by Microsoft as "the most powerful console" and both can play Halo Infinite . . . . yep totally not confusing. Look, you could call me biased all you want but i already presented many article links above discussing how shit confusing the name Xbox Series X is. Its an industry-wide impression and not some biased overreaction. Instead of burying its head on the sand and worry about their marketing pride and ego, Microsoft should just change the name specifically the "Series X" part to something less confusing. Its perfectly fine to correct the name of the console this early in the game.

Trup1aya said:
This is a laughably dramatic take. Placed horizontally, it will be further away from the rear than pretty any other console. Oh wait, are you running with the idea that the vent on the top will be the entirety of the cooling solution? Cmon bruh, these guys made the Xbox one and Xbox one X with excellent cooling systems and you think they'd just forget that it needs to move hot air?

What? Where did you get all that from my previous post?

What im saying is that the huge exhaust fan on top won't be doing its cooling job properly if the Xbox Series X was placed on its side because the console would be a tight squeeze in most home entertainment center which would mean the exhaust fan would most likely only have a few centimeters/inches to vent-out the hot air away from the GPU and CPU. Thats a recipe for overheating. Im sure XSeX has other vents in place (bottom-back or bottom-front preferably) but its safe to assume they are just intake vents to let cool air in (and not exhaust).

At any rate, somebody already made some rough calculations on the Xbox Series X dimensions based on what was shown and it turns its going to be a tight-fit even placed on its side for one of the more popular home entertainment centers. XSeX owners need to be extra careful with its placement . For those with enclosed slots in their entertainment centers, well you're shit out of luck.

Trup1aya said:
No it isn't and nothing you wrote above disproves any of it.

Whatever you say, bruh! Keep conflating early adopters with "hardcore" - whatever that means LOL!

Trup1aya said:
The systems will be designed such that cpu dependent tasks will have nearly identical resources to work with. Even looking at Jason's content should make this clear. The difference will be in the visuals- assets, effects, resolution.
And since smaller assets are being used and games being run a lower resolution, less RAM is necessary. The CPU is plenty beefy enough and the system balanced enough, that it's hard to see a reason why MS plan isn't feasible.

Yes, you'll have to plan for min specs, but that's no different than for any Multiplatform game. The Series S stands to be behind the minimum specs multiplatform dev's build games for.

I could see cutting down on VRAM for the rumored Xbox Series S as manageable for devs if its just focusing on assets with 1080p resolutions but cutting down on RAM/system RAM would create tons of needless work-around for devs regarding stuff like AI. Also it turns out, the rumored Xbox Series S' CPU is under-clocked compared to Xbox Series X according to a Verge senior editor. That under-performing CPU is going to be the target baseline for next-gen Xbox games - even the exclusive ones - and will drag down the next-gen experience for everyone in the next-gen Xbox ecosystem just like Xbox 360 Arcade/Core did during the 7th console generation.

Trup1aya said:
Whatever man! it's a single cross-gen game. It's not the only game MS is making. There will be next-gen only games as well, but Halo Infinite won't be one of them.

Again this is a extremely biased overreaction from you. The biggest multiplayer games of this gen can run on cell phones. The biggest FPS can run on the shittiest of PCs. The idea that it's a mistake to try to revitalize halo's MP relevance by ensuring as many people as possible can play it, is absolutely nonsensical. The mention of SSD is completely irrelevant here.

I have no idea what Halo Infinite will look like on Series X. But I'm pretty confident it'll be one of the better looking games released for Next-gen consoles holiday 2020 despite being built for xbox one.

LOL @ trying to hand-wave away SSD as being irrelevant. It becoming a console standard next-gen is going to be huge for gaming going forward and a game speed-optimized for SSD would be difficult to port to HDD-using consoles like Xbox One and HDD-using PC's without long and distracting load times. Its just bad timing for MS to focus on cross-gen and multiplatform games with SSD becoming mainstream and standard.

Also, i have to laugh at the Fortnite comparison. Are Halo devs trying to chase fps trends again? Hope not. We could've had bigger and more detailed worlds with little to no loading times with Halo Infinite but i guess we have to wait for another game to deliver the true potential of next-gen Xbox gaming since apparently the flagship game for the Xbox Series X was designed with Xbox One specs in mind. Terrible message to send. I hope youre just bullshitting. Thats just asking for a repeat of the bad-old days of "CoD4 is 60fps while Halo 3 is only 30fps".

Given their apparent focus on multi-platforming games to sell Gamepass subs even to weak next-gen SKU's and non-HDD, old-gen consoles and PC's, i guess its best not to expect Xbox first-party games to take the lead with next-gen gaming experiences in general.

Trup1aya said:
Again, absolute hyperbole. People who spend less, expect less. The notion that people will be mistakenly buying old consoles, only to be disappointed by the performance requires some uncanny mental gymnastics. Sony was still manufacturing PS2s 6 years after the PS3 was released. I guess those people that created the demand for it were getting hoodwinked. Or is it more likely that they were able to get what they wanted from the old system, and were willing to wait for the new ones to become more attractive?

People will know that if they want to play the best version of Halo Infinite and any subsequent games they'll need a PC or series X.

they also know that if they "just want to play Halo Infinite" then they can go another route. And they'll know these other routes aren't necessarily future proof (which is fine if they truly only want to play one game).

This isn't rocket science. It's amazing to me that you think there's some significant mass of people who skipped Xbox One for the last 6 years, but want to play Halo Infinite so badly that they'll buy a brand new Xbox one X, one year from now, despite all the other ways to play it. Like, this is such a specifically asinine scenario that I'm bothered to be taking part in it.

Umm . . . . first off that was a really off-tangent response. Second, people getting acutely disappointed because they or some well-meaning gift-giver MISTAKENLY bought them an old-gen Xbox One X instead of the new-gen Xbox Series X to play Halo Infinite is a very real thing given the confusing name of the two. Thats what the articles i linked above have been saying as well.

Trup1aya said:
Call them what you want. I think you and I both know the type of customer being discussed. That's all that matters.

No, I dont. I dont know what you mean by "hardcore" gamer. Is it about a gamer who plays a certain number of or genres of games? Is it about a gamer who likes a certain difficulty or challenge? Maybe like MS and Xbox Series X, you should avoid using confusing terms that are subject to different interpretations.

Lightjolly · Jan 3, 2020

Oluasc said:
Actually 12TF RDNA with VRS and RT is on par with a RTX 2080 Super.

No fucking way the console is being sold for 400 or 500. Unless it has like 4 GBs of ram or sold at a super loss, thats insane power

Trup1aya · Jan 3, 2020

Temp_User said:
Microsoft could tease the machine and its specs but there is nothing to tease about the name once it is unveiled. The impression of the name Xbox Series X has been lackluster. Its bad and confusing. To illustrate:

Post-TGA reveal from Dec 12:

The Xbox One Series X: bad name, good design

'Xbox Series X' is the worst name Microsoft could choose for its next-gen console

Xbox Series X's Name Is Asking For Consumer Confusion

Post-BusinessInsider explanation of the name from Dec 17:

Xbox Series X name explained by Microsoft, still confusing

Xbox Series X Name Explained (Sort Of)

Then there's that Xbox End of the Year interview with Phil Spencer From Dec 23:

Next-Gen Xbox Name Explained by Phil Spencer, Wants It to Be the Best Xbox

Phil Spencer Tries To Rationalize The New Xbox's Dubious Bad Name

Microsoft sure is wasting too much PR time and effort trying to justify Xbox Series X name when it could be spent on something else more productive. Makes you question if it's really a clear and easy to understand brandname. You could always throw more time and money with blanket marketing but is it really worth it? Maybe its better to just drop the 'Series X' part and change it to something else?

Only in your mind is MS wasting time and money trying to justify anything. They sent out a couple lines of text. At the end of the day, they will release a product and people will either like it and decide that its worth their money or not. A compelling product will render any initial confusion a distant memory. If people are interested, they will understand . It was the same shit with the xbox 360.

Semantics LOL! Early adopters and "hardcore" gamers are not one and the same. You're adjective use of "hardcore" and "casual" was a mistake as there are plenty of "hardcore" gamers who doesn't want to early adopt new hardware and there are plenty of primarily FIFA and CoD gamers - aka the so-called "casual" gamers - who would get new-gen at launch.

Language is fluid...so yes, semantics. Just because this guy doesn't like the labels doesn't mean that they arent used interchangeably enough in common conversation to be used this way. What's more hardcore that lining up to by an expensive black box because your a fan. What's casual about sinking hours into FIFA UT and COD?

At the end of the day, you know exactly what I'm talking about. So you can play dumb about hardcore vs early adopter, but the point doesn't change: the demand will outstrip supply for several months regardless of price differential, so not having a low cost option immediately wont result in a missed opportunity. It merely has to be available prior to supply catching up to demand.

What do you mean no historical precedent? Have you not read the content i quoted from the the dude who coined the term "Console Wars" and actually historically analyzed console launches earlier? Here let me copy it again:
A "core version" of a new console has become a trade term for "a stripped down model sold for a lower price." The most common downgraded features are memory and hard disk size.

I found no evidence that a core version priced inside the Goldilocks Zone materially changed the fate of a platform whose primary configurations were priced above the appropriate window.

My theory about why: Gamers buy new systems in order to experience great new graphical and audio features, and to play the most stunning games. Core systems do add initial sales volume for manufacturers. But the trade-offs they offer limit the game experience on top titles, which makes these models a bad match for the passionate game fans who drive the console industry.

As the market matures core systems become obsolete very quickly, and users have learned that a little patience will give them the chance to buy a full-featured machine at the same price.

As historically demonstrated by both Xbox 360 Arcade(256MB storage) and Core(0MB storage), a "core"/gimped versions of a console does little to nothing to help MS in the console wars. These gimped consoles are even actively harming the gaming experience of the Xbox community as a whole as they force developers to strip features , scale down assets and world size, and/or waste time creating workarounds in their games to be able to make sure that their owners are not left behind. Its a known problem back then for Xbox gamers and devs . . . . its a mystery why Microsoft is repeating the same mistake again with the rumored under-powered(less RAM, underclocked CPU) Xbox Series S.

Again, semantics. How were 360 Arcade and 360 Core actually core consoles? The core console is the device that appeals to the majority of the audience... not necessarily the one manufacturers strip everything out of in hopes of widening the audience. The core xbox 360 was the 20GB followed by the 360 slim. The core xbox one was the OG followed by the Xbox ONE s.

The entirety of your argument is based upon the premise that S is a gimped version of the X, when in reality, the X is an enhanced version of the S.

There is NO historically precedence for the device intended for a premium niche to launch prior to the device intended to appeal to the mass audience.

Both Xbox One X and Xbox Series X ARE successors to Xbox One just sayin. Both have similar names, billed by Microsoft as "the most powerful console" and both can play Halo Infinite . . . . yep totally not confusing. Look, you could call me biased all you want but i already presented many article links above discussing how shit confusing the name Xbox Series X is. Its an industry-wide impression and not some biased overreaction. Instead of burying its head on the sand and worry about their marketing pride and ego, Microsoft should just change the name specifically the "Series X" part to something less confusing. Its perfectly fine to correct the name of the console this early in the game.

Every manufacturer calls their next console most the most powerful. Games being cross gen is nothing new or confusing. And MS is making the "X" label to indicate their premium offering this gen, just as it was last gen. There's nothing to correct. Itll Simply become more clear as the products actually materialize.

What? Where did you get all that from my previous post?

What im saying is that the huge exhaust fan on top won't be doing its cooling job properly if the Xbox Series X was placed on its side because the console would be a tight squeeze in most home entertainment center which would mean the exhaust fan would most likely only have a few centimeters/inches to vent-out the hot air away from the GPU and CPU. Thats a recipe for overheating. Im sure XSeX has other vents in place (bottom-back or bottom-front preferably) but its safe to assume they are just intake vents to let cool air in (and not exhaust).

At any rate, somebody already made some rough calculations on the Xbox Series X dimensions based on what was shown and it turns its going to be a tight-fit even placed on its side for one of the more popular home entertainment centers. XSeX owners need to be extra careful with its placement . For those with enclosed slots in their entertainment centers, well you're shit out of luck.

I've got to see some of these "more popular entertainment systems" Because the notion that there are many people whose entertainment systems can't handle something that's 1ft horizontally and 6 inches tall is hard to believe. Laid horizontally it's the same distance across as an Xbox one (with more clearance behind it), while being a tall as a docked switch.

Popular receivers have a bigger profile than this thing

An enclosed entertainment system with compartments that can't handle a 12"x6"x6" box certainly can be of the most popular variety.

Whatever you say, bruh! Keep conflating early adopters with "hardcore" - whatever that means LOL!

Yeah, Whatever

I could see cutting down on VRAM for the rumored Xbox Series S as manageable for devs if its just focusing on assets with 1080p resolutions but cutting down on RAM/system RAM would create tons of needless work-around for devs regarding stuff like AI. Also it turns out, the rumored Xbox Series S' CPU is under-clocked compared to Xbox Series X according to a Verge senior editor. That under-performing CPU is going to be the target baseline for next-gen Xbox games - even the exclusive ones - and will drag down the next-gen experience for everyone in the next-gen Xbox ecosystem just like Xbox 360 Arcade/Core did during the 7th console generation.

I think we'll find is that "stuff like AI" will be decided by other targeted platforms, namely low end PCs, long before Lockhart begins to hold anything back. Its shortcomings will be in trying to push resolutions and framerates.

LOL @ trying to hand-wave away SSD as being irrelevant. It becoming a console standard next-gen is going to be huge for gaming going forward and a game speed-optimized for SSD would be difficult to port to HDD-using consoles like Xbox One and HDD-using PC's without long and distracting load times. Its just bad timing for MS to focus on cross-gen and multiplatform games with SSD becoming mainstream and standard.

No your completely miss understanding me. SSD is Huge for next-gen...But its completely irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not Halo Infinite(or any specific game) should be cross-gen. Halo Infinite is a late gen Xbox One game ... so SSD doesn't factor into the equation. Microsoft should absolutely be supporting the Xbox One with a great flagship game late in the consoles life cycle. Microsoft should absolutely be porting great games to other platforms, including their next gen console, so that more people can experience it without being segregated from their friends.

Also, i have to laugh at the Fortnite comparison. Are Halo devs trying to chase fps trends again? Hope not. We could've had bigger and more detailed worlds with little to no loading times with Halo Infinite but i guess we have to wait for another game to deliver the true potential of next-gen Xbox gaming since apparently the flagship game for the Xbox Series X was designed with Xbox One specs in mind. Terrible message to send. I hope youre just bullshitting. Thats just asking for a repeat of the bad-old days of "CoD4 is 60fps while Halo 3 is only 30fps".

Given their apparent focus on multi-platforming games to sell Gamepass subs even to weak next-gen SKU's and non-HDD, old-gen consoles and PC's, i guess its best not to expect Xbox first-party games to take the lead with next-gen gaming experiences in general.

If you're laughing at the comparison it's because your are completely missing the point. No one is talking about chasing a trends. I'm talking about recognizing that realizing Halo's true potential as a multiplayer title doesn't happen if you put up barriers on who can access it.

You're talking Halo Infinite not delivering big immersive worlds without loading times when the game bread and butter has always been arena multiplayer with friends. Other games can be the first to take full advantage of the SSD. But aiming to make Halo Infinite the biggest MP game in possible is 343s goal, and it's the right goal.

Finally you keep referring to Halo Infinite like its Series X's flagship but made with Xbox One in mind.

No. its Xbox One's last hurrah getting a Series X port. It was announced for xbox one back in 2018, and we knew nothing of a Next-Gen port until a year later. So stop pretending it was ever going to be the title to showcase the full potential of next-gen.

And again, none of this means Microsoft studios wont take the lead with next-gen experiences. It just means Halo Infinite isn't that game. They've got a bunch of other studios making a bunch of other games. These hyperbolic conclusions of yours are too much.

Umm . . . . first off that was a really off-tangent response. Second, people getting acutely disappointed because they or some well-meaning gift-giver MISTAKENLY bought them an old-gen Xbox One X instead of the new-gen Xbox Series X to play Halo Infinite is a very real thing given the confusing name of the two. Thats what the articles i linked above have been saying as well.

It's not off tangent... it's the exact response that this absurd doomsday scenario deserves.
The vast majority of people who will want to play Halo Infinite already have a system that can play it. So if they are asking for a gift, it's most likely just for the disc or a code.

The handful of people who will be requesting the game AND a console to play it on will surely be descriptive enough that someone isn't going to walk out of the store with a console that $200-$300 cheaper than the one they asked for.. And this is assuming MS and Retailers all do absolutely nothing to differentiate the two beyond the words "one" and "series"

No, I dont. I dont know what you mean by "hardcore" gamer. Is it about a gamer who plays a certain number of or genres of games? Is it about a gamer who likes a certain difficulty or challenge? Maybe like MS and Xbox Series X, you should avoid using confusing terms that are subject to different interpretations.

You know exactly what I mean because I specifically said I was talking about the type of gamer who is excited enough about a specific platform that they will deal with limited supply, and wait in lines to buy it at it's most price expensive point. Many terms are subject to different interpretations- thats why we use context to decipher meaning. we are talking about people lining up to buy an expensive console at launch, the genres they like and the difficulty levels the choose is immaterial .

Temp_User · Jan 4, 2020

Trup1aya said:
Only in your mind is MS wasting time and money trying to justify anything. They sent out a couple lines of text. At the end of the day, they will release a product and people will either like it and decide that its worth their money or not. A compelling product will render any initial confusion a distant memory. If people are interested, they will understand . It was the same shit with the xbox 360.

Judging from the press reactions when the name Xbox Series X was unveiled and subsequent attempts to "clarify" that aforementioned name, it sure looks-like MS is wasting marketing time and money. I dont know if they are getting their money's worth at all.:

*copy and pastes*
Post-TGA reveal from Dec 12:

https://youtu.be/26oyiUuWaRw?t=109

The Xbox One Series X: bad name, good design
'Xbox Series X' is the worst name Microsoft could choose for its next-gen console
Xbox Series X's Name Is Asking For Consumer Confusion

Post-BusinessInsider explanation of the name from Dec 17:
Xbox Series X name explained by Microsoft, still confusing
Xbox Series X Name Explained (Sort Of)

Then there's that Xbox End of the Year interview with Phil Spencer From Dec 23:
Next-Gen Xbox Name Explained by Phil Spencer, Wants It to Be the Best Xbox
Phil Spencer Tries To Rationalize The New Xbox's Dubious Bad Name

Im sure Microsoft has tons of marketing money to burn to try and try again to "clarify" it but couldnt they save their money and just come-up with a less confusing name for their next-gen console? Like seriously, Xbox Series X and Xbox One X is too similar and worse, half-informed/distracted people might actually mistake the old-gen "One" console as the first in the "Series" line of console. Why risk it at all?

Trup1aya said:
Language is fluid...so yes, semantics. Just because this guy doesn't like the labels doesn't mean that they arent used interchangeably enough in common conversation to be used this way. What's more hardcore that lining up to by an expensive black box because your a fan. What's casual about sinking hours into FIFA UT and COD?

At the end of the day, you know exactly what I'm talking about. So you can play dumb about hardcore vs early adopter, but the point doesn't change: the demand will outstrip supply for several months regardless of price differential, so not having a low cost option immediately wont result in a missed opportunity. It merely has to be available prior to supply catching up to demand.

No really i dont. "Hardcore" is too vague a term to create an argument or to respond to one. As i already linked earlier before:
*copy and pastes*
Research says 'casual' and 'hardcore' no longer accurately describe today's gamers
Don Daglow: "I'm calling bullshit on core, mid-core and casual"

. . . . your use of unclear terms such as "hardcore" and "casual" was a mistake which means youre original point that "casuals" - whatever that means - don't buy consoles at launch was a mistake too. "Hardcore" gamers - whatever that means - do not monopolize console supply at launch and the first few months but rather Early Adopters do. Early Adopters is a well-defined marketing and business term for decades and the term precisely describes the people who will buy products like consoles at launch AND covers a whole lot of gaming segments the term "hardcore" wouldn't even begin to describe: The Time Fillers, The Backseat Viewer who wants to return to his/her old gaming hobby, The Hardware Enthusiast, The All-Around Enthusiast etc.

And just to pull back on my original point, there are plenty of distracted, tired and/or partially informed console buyers at launch aka Early Adopters who will very easily make the disappointing mistake of buying an old-gen Xbox One X instead of the new-gen Xbox Series X for themselves or for others due to the similar names, similar ability to play Halo Infinte, price considerations etc.

Trup1aya said:
Again, semantics. How were 360 Arcade and 360 Core actually core consoles? The core console is the device that appeals to the majority of the audience... not necessarily the one manufacturers strip everything out of in hopes of widening the audience. The core xbox 360 was the 20GB followed by the 360 slim. The core xbox one was the OG followed by the Xbox ONE s.

The entirety of your argument is based upon the premise that S is a gimped version of the X, when in reality, the X is an enhanced version of the S.

There is NO historically precedence for the device intended for a premium niche to launch prior to the device intended to appeal to the mass audience.

Look at you trying to change the definition of what a "core console" is from the one that was set by a multi-awarded videogame industry pioneer and expert. You're redefinition is worthless and it reflects badly on you and your argument that you even made an attempt on the first place. Gonna put the Don Daglow's definition here again *cuts and paste*

A "core version" of a new console has become a trade term for "a stripped down model sold for a lower price." The most common downgraded features are memory and hard disk size.

Going by that correct definition, Xbox 360 Core(0GB storage, 2005) is the "core console version" (as if its not obvious enough) counterpart to the launch day Xbox 360(20GB, 2005) while the follow-up Xbox 360 Arcade(256MB,2007) is the "core console counterpart" to the Xbox 360 Elite(2007). The rumored Xbox Series S with its gimped RAM and underclocked CPU will be the "core console counterpart" to the Xbox Series X.

You wouldnt find a better historical precedent to Xbox 9th-gen console hardware and pricing plans than Xbox's 7th-gen console hardware and pricing plans . . . . which is bad news considering Daglow's follow-up historical analysis:

I found no evidence that a core version priced inside the Goldilocks Zone materially changed the fate of a platform whose primary configurations were priced above the appropriate window.

My theory about why: Gamers buy new systems in order to experience great new graphical and audio features, and to play the most stunning games. Core systems do add initial sales volume for manufacturers. But the trade-offs they offer limit the game experience on top titles, which makes these models a bad match for the passionate game fans who drive the console industry.

As the market matures core systems become obsolete very quickly, and users have learned that a little patience will give them the chance to buy a full-featured machine at the same price.

So yeah, like i said before, judging from history, the rumored Xbox Series S is not going to materially affect the result of the Console Wars in favor of MS. Delaying its launch for a year to holiday 2021 just in time for Xbox Series X's and i guess the competition's next-gen console's first price cuts only makes Xbox Series S more irrelevant. Yep, people have legit reasons to question MS approach to its next-gen console and its not just because of a confusing brand name.

Trup1aya said:
Every manufacturer calls their next console most the most powerful. Games being cross gen is nothing new or confusing. And MS is making the "X" label to indicate their premium offering this gen, just as it was last gen. There's nothing to correct. Itll Simply become more clear as the products actually materialize.

Sure but similar hype, similar ability to play launch games on top of similar console names? Thats a recipe for consumer confusion. Keep the 'X' suffix but change the 'Series' keyword. Its an extremely generic term used by many products (Dell G series, Samsung Galaxy M series etc.) to denote a product line and most buyers out-of-habit will hesitate and think-twice to use it as a unique identifier. Change Xbox Series X to Xbox Infinite X or probably even just Xbox X series.

Trup1aya said:
I've got to see some of these "more popular entertainment systems" Because the notion that there are many people whose entertainment systems can't handle something that's 1ft horizontally and 6 inches tall is hard to believe. Laid horizontally it's the same distance across as an Xbox one (with more clearance behind it), while being a tall as a docked switch.

Popular receivers have a bigger profile than this thing

An enclosed entertainment system with compartments that can't handle a 12"x6"x6" box certainly can be of the most popular variety

The previous link i provided have external links to pics of those popular home entertainment center. Its going to be a tight-fit even when placed horizontally on its side because of its PC tower design and for those with enclosed entertainment centers or even those that are open but have side-obstacles like vases, books or other electronic devices, XSeX's exhaust fan which is only to one side if placed horizontally may not have enough space to properly vent-out hot air. XSeX looks to requires more thought and compromise to set in a home entertainment center (and spouse) than your averagely designed game console.

Trup1aya said:
Yeah, Whatever

Read above in regards to your erroneous use of the vague term "hardcore".

Trup1aya said:
I think we'll find is that "stuff like AI" will be decided by other targeted platforms, namely low end PCs, long before Lockhart begins to hold anything back. Its shortcomings will be in trying to push resolutions and framerates.

Baseline specs dictate the general scope, economics and acceptable performance of a multiplat game and they are often closer but not always equal to the recommended specs rather than the minimum specs of a game. Low-end PC configurations between the baseline and minimum specs gets a participation award and eats testing resources but often has little to no say in the actual design process. Setting the baseline specs like the CPU and RAM of your multiplat to the rumored low-end next-gen Xbox Series S or worse,the Xbox One constrains the game design and brings down the next-gen experience for everyone in the next-gen Xbox ecosystem.

Trup1aya said:
No your completely miss understanding me. SSD is Huge for next-gen...But its completely irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not Halo Infinite(or any specific game) should be cross-gen. Halo Infinite is a late gen Xbox One game ... so SSD doesn't factor into the equation. Microsoft should absolutely be supporting the Xbox One with a great flagship game late in the consoles life cycle. Microsoft should absolutely be porting great games to other platforms, including their next gen console, so that more people can experience it without being segregated from their friends.

If you're laughing at the comparison it's because your are completely missing the point. No one is talking about chasing a trends. I'm talking about recognizing that realizing Halo's true potential as a multiplayer title doesn't happen if you put up barriers on who can access it.

You're talking Halo Infinite not delivering big immersive worlds without loading times when the game bread and butter has always been arena multiplayer with friends. Other games can be the first to take full advantage of the SSD. But aiming to make Halo Infinite the biggest MP game in possible is 343s goal, and it's the right goal.

Finally you keep referring to Halo Infinite like its Series X's flagship but made with Xbox One in mind.

No. its Xbox One's last hurrah getting a Series X port. It was announced for xbox one back in 2018, and we knew nothing of a Next-Gen port until a year later. So stop pretending it was ever going to be the title to showcase the full potential of next-gen.

And again, none of this means Microsoft studios wont take the lead with next-gen experiences. It just means Halo Infinite isn't that game. They've got a bunch of other studios making a bunch of other games. These hyperbolic conclusions of yours are too much.

Focusing on multiplayer is not the right approach to Halo. Ask any Halo vet (or relapsed vet) and they will tell you that Halo is all about great single-player and multi-player experiences. There are plenty of Halo fans who buy Halo for single-player alone. People are attached to the Master Chief. All these statement of yours focusing too much on Halo multiplayer is very worrying and actually gives the impression that Halo seem to be chasing live-services trends. Not good.

If MS/343i really need an un-optimized Halo cross-gen game that uses old-gen specs as a baseline for multiplayer/live services-centric purposes then do a side-story game starring Jameson Locke and Team Osiris. Keep the mainline Halo game focusing on 'Chief as an EXCLUSIVE flagship title for stuff like console launches where the devs could really showcase the potential of the next-gen Xbox hardware and would not look shabby compared to the competition's next-gen exclusives. Keep the mystique of the 'Chief and his series as they are basically synonimous with the Xbox brand identity.

Trup1aya said:
It's not off tangent... it's the exact response that this absurd doomsday scenario deserves.
The vast majority of people who will want to play Halo Infinite already have a system that can play it. So if they are asking for a gift, it's most likely just for the disc or a code.

The handful of people who will be requesting the game AND a console to play it on will surely be descriptive enough that someone isn't going to walk out of the store with a console that $200-$300 cheaper than the one they asked for.. And this is assuming MS and Retailers all do absolutely nothing to differentiate the two beyond the words "one" and "series"

Nah, if there is one thing that people with retail experience learns quickly, it is to never under-estimate customer ignorance when making a purchase. Boutique shops like the Apple store and car dealers are specific enough and have a high sales personnel to potential buyer ratio to mitigate a buyer's lack of product info but for general stores like Walmart or Gamestop where the sales people are often swamped, the potential customer is shit-out of luck. This is why having a clear, distinct brand name is important, there might not be anyone to assist the customer in making a purchase. Something that you could not say for Xbox Series X.

Potential buyers making the mistake of buying an old-gen Xbox One X when what they or the recipient of the purchase really wanted is a next-gen Xbox Series X due to having confusing names. Its a very real thing that could happen - hell, just by looking at an itemized list of names containing a Xbox One X and Xbox Series X can be disorienting. And just to be clear other people did arrive to the same scenarios as i do:

Picture this: it's the holiday season of 2020. A pair of hopeful parents are trying to get the newest console for their bright-eyed kid who made the nice list. "Which Xbox do you want, ma'am?" asks the overworked clerk behind the counter. "The One S, the One X, or the Series X?" The parents ask for the cheaper one. And that's how many Christmases will be ruined by bad naming conventions.

You can imagine someone going to a store and asking for "the Xbox X", and being told there are two of them. "Okay, I want the one that is 4K." But both of them are 4K. "I want the one that plays the new Halo." Except… both of them will play the new Halo, so you can't even use that as the differentiating factor.

Trup1aya said:
You know exactly what I mean because I specifically said I was talking about the type of gamer who is excited enough about a specific platform that they will deal with limited supply, and wait in lines to buy it at it's most price expensive point. Many terms are subject to different interpretations- thats why we use context to decipher meaning. we are talking about people lining up to buy an expensive console at launch, the genres they like and the difficulty levels the choose is immaterial .

LOL. Like i said earlier, Early Adopters is a well-defined marketing and business term for decades and the term precisely describes the people who will buy products like consoles at launch AND covers a whole lot of gaming segments the term "hardcore" wouldn't even begin to describe. Really next time, pick a clear, distinct term when making an argument cause people will call you out and correct you if you don't. Dont use vague terms like the way Xbox names its consoles.

Shpeshal Nick · Jan 4, 2020

Temp_User said:
Judging from the press reactions when the name Xbox Series X was unveiled and subsequent attempts to "clarify" that aforementioned name, it sure looks-like MS is wasting marketing time and money. I dont know if they are getting their money's worth at all.:

*copy and pastes*
Post-TGA reveal from Dec 12:

https://youtu.be/26oyiUuWaRw?t=109
The Xbox One Series X: bad name, good design
'Xbox Series X' is the worst name Microsoft could choose for its next-gen console
Xbox Series X's Name Is Asking For Consumer Confusion

Post-BusinessInsider explanation of the name from Dec 17:
Xbox Series X name explained by Microsoft, still confusing
Xbox Series X Name Explained (Sort Of)

Then there's that Xbox End of the Year interview with Phil Spencer From Dec 23:
Next-Gen Xbox Name Explained by Phil Spencer, Wants It to Be the Best Xbox
Phil Spencer Tries To Rationalize The New Xbox's Dubious Bad Name

Im sure Microsoft has tons of marketing money to burn to try and try again to "clarify" it but couldnt they save their money and just come-up with a less confusing name for their next-gen console? Like seriously, Xbox Series X and Xbox One X is too similar and worse, half-informed/distracted people might actually mistake the old-gen "One" console as the first in the "Series" line of console. Why risk it at all?

No really i dont. "Hardcore" is too vague a term to create an argument or to respond to one. As i already linked earlier before:
*copy and pastes*
Research says 'casual' and 'hardcore' no longer accurately describe today's gamers
Don Daglow: "I'm calling bullshit on core, mid-core and casual"

. . . . your use of unclear terms such as "hardcore" and "casual" was a mistake which means youre original point that "casuals" - whatever that means - don't buy consoles at launch was a mistake too. "Hardcore" gamers - whatever that means - do not monopolize console supply at launch and the first few months but rather Early Adopters do. Early Adopters is a well-defined marketing and business term for decades and the term precisely describes the people who will buy products like consoles at launch AND covers a whole lot of gaming segments the term "hardcore" wouldn't even begin to describe: The Time Fillers, The Backseat Viewer who wants to return to his/her old gaming hobby, The Hardware Enthusiast, The All-Around Enthusiast etc.

And just to pull back on my original point, there are plenty of distracted, tired and/or partially informed console buyers at launch aka Early Adopters who will very easily make the disappointing mistake of buying an old-gen Xbox One X instead of the new-gen Xbox Series X for themselves or for others due to the similar names, similar ability to play Halo Infinte, price considerations etc.

Look at you trying to change the definition of what a "core console" is from the one that was set by a multi-awarded videogame industry pioneer and expert. You're redefinition is worthless and it reflects badly on you and your argument that you even made an attempt on the first place. Gonna put the Don Daglow's definition here again *cuts and paste*

A "core version" of a new console has become a trade term for "a stripped down model sold for a lower price." The most common downgraded features are memory and hard disk size.

Going by that correct definition, Xbox 360 Core(0GB storage, 2005) is the "core console version" (as if its not obvious enough) counterpart to the launch day Xbox 360(20GB, 2005) while the follow-up Xbox 360 Arcade(256MB,2007) is the "core console counterpart" to the Xbox 360 Elite(2007). The rumored Xbox Series S with its gimped RAM and underclocked CPU will be the "core console counterpart" to the Xbox Series X.

You wouldnt find a better historical precedent to Xbox 9th-gen console hardware and pricing plans than Xbox's 7th-gen console hardware and pricing plans . . . . which is bad news considering Daglow's follow-up historical analysis:

I found no evidence that a core version priced inside the Goldilocks Zone materially changed the fate of a platform whose primary configurations were priced above the appropriate window.

My theory about why: Gamers buy new systems in order to experience great new graphical and audio features, and to play the most stunning games. Core systems do add initial sales volume for manufacturers. But the trade-offs they offer limit the game experience on top titles, which makes these models a bad match for the passionate game fans who drive the console industry.

As the market matures core systems become obsolete very quickly, and users have learned that a little patience will give them the chance to buy a full-featured machine at the same price.

So yeah, like i said before, judging from history, the rumored Xbox Series S is not going to materially affect the result of the Console Wars in favor of MS. Delaying its launch for a year to holiday 2021 just in time for Xbox Series X's and i guess the competition's next-gen console's first price cuts only makes Xbox Series S more irrelevant. Yep, people have legit reasons to question MS approach to its next-gen console and its not just because of a confusing brand name.

Sure but similar hype, similar ability to play launch games on top of similar console names? Thats a recipe for consumer confusion. Keep the 'X' suffix but change the 'Series' keyword. Its an extremely generic term used by many products (Dell G series, Samsung Galaxy M series etc.) to denote a product line and most buyers out-of-habit will hesitate and think-twice to use it as a unique identifier. Change Xbox Series X to Xbox Infinite X or probably even just Xbox X series.

The previous link i provided have external links to pics of those popular home entertainment center. Its going to be a tight-fit even when placed horizontally on its side because of its PC tower design and for those with enclosed entertainment centers or even those that are open but have side-obstacles like vases, books or other electronic devices, XSeX's exhaust fan which is only to one side if placed horizontally may not have enough space to properly vent-out hot air. XSeX looks to requires more thought and compromise to set in a home entertainment center (and spouse) than your averagely designed game console.

Read above in regards to your erroneous use of the vague term "hardcore".

Baseline specs dictate the general scope, economics and acceptable performance of a multiplat game and they are often closer but not always equal to the recommended specs rather than the minimum specs of a game. Low-end PC configurations between the baseline and minimum specs gets a participation award and eats testing resources but often has little to no say in the actual design process. Setting the baseline specs like the CPU and RAM of your multiplat to the rumored low-end next-gen Xbox Series S or worse,the Xbox One constrains the game design and brings down the next-gen experience for everyone in the next-gen Xbox ecosystem.

Focusing on multiplayer is not the right approach to Halo. Ask any Halo vet (or relapsed vet) and they will tell you that Halo is all about great single-player and multi-player experiences. There are plenty of Halo fans who buy Halo for single-player alone. People are attached to the Master Chief. All these statement of yours focusing too much on Halo multiplayer is very worrying and actually gives the impression that Halo seem to be chasing live-services trends. Not good.

If MS/343i really need an un-optimized Halo cross-gen game that uses old-gen specs as a baseline for multiplayer/live services-centric purposes then do a side-story game starring Jameson Locke and Team Osiris. Keep the mainline Halo game focusing on 'Chief as an EXCLUSIVE flagship title for stuff like console launches where the devs could really showcase the potential of the next-gen Xbox hardware and would not look shabby compared to the competition's next-gen exclusives. Keep the mystique of the 'Chief and his series as they are basically synonimous with the Xbox brand identity.

Nah, if there is one thing that people with retail experience learns quickly, it is to never under-estimate customer ignorance when making a purchase. Boutique shops like the Apple store and car dealers are specific enough and have a high sales personnel to potential buyer ratio to mitigate a buyer's lack of product info but for general stores like Walmart or Gamestop where the sales people are often swamped, the potential customer is shit-out of luck. This is why having a clear, distinct brand name is important, there might not be anyone to assist the customer in making a purchase. Something that you could not say for Xbox Series X.

Potential buyers making the mistake of buying an old-gen Xbox One X when what they or the recipient of the purchase really wanted is a next-gen Xbox Series X due to having confusing names. Its a very real thing that could happen - hell, just by looking at an itemized list of names containing a Xbox One X and Xbox Series X can be disorienting. And just to be clear other people did arrive to the same scenarios as i do:

Picture this: it's the holiday season of 2020. A pair of hopeful parents are trying to get the newest console for their bright-eyed kid who made the nice list. "Which Xbox do you want, ma'am?" asks the overworked clerk behind the counter. "The One S, the One X, or the Series X?" The parents ask for the cheaper one. And that's how many Christmases will be ruined by bad naming conventions.

You can imagine someone going to a store and asking for "the Xbox X", and being told there are two of them. "Okay, I want the one that is 4K." But both of them are 4K. "I want the one that plays the new Halo." Except… both of them will play the new Halo, so you can't even use that as the differentiating factor.

LOL. Like i said earlier, Early Adopters is a well-defined marketing and business term for decades and the term precisely describes the people who will buy products like consoles at launch AND covers a whole lot of gaming segments the term "hardcore" wouldn't even begin to describe. Really next time, pick a clear, distinct term when making an argument cause people will call you out and correct you if you don't. Dont use vague terms like the way Xbox names its consoles.

Man you've gone to a lot of effort to avoid what ALL people will say:

"Can I get the newest Xbox?"

OneBadMutha · Jan 4, 2020

Temp_User said:
Judging from the press reactions when the name Xbox Series X was unveiled and subsequent attempts to "clarify" that aforementioned name, it sure looks-like MS is wasting marketing time and money. I dont know if they are getting their money's worth at all.:

*copy and pastes*
Post-TGA reveal from Dec 12:

https://youtu.be/26oyiUuWaRw?t=109
The Xbox One Series X: bad name, good design
'Xbox Series X' is the worst name Microsoft could choose for its next-gen console
Xbox Series X's Name Is Asking For Consumer Confusion

Post-BusinessInsider explanation of the name from Dec 17:
Xbox Series X name explained by Microsoft, still confusing
Xbox Series X Name Explained (Sort Of)

Then there's that Xbox End of the Year interview with Phil Spencer From Dec 23:
Next-Gen Xbox Name Explained by Phil Spencer, Wants It to Be the Best Xbox
Phil Spencer Tries To Rationalize The New Xbox's Dubious Bad Name

Im sure Microsoft has tons of marketing money to burn to try and try again to "clarify" it but couldnt they save their money and just come-up with a less confusing name for their next-gen console? Like seriously, Xbox Series X and Xbox One X is too similar and worse, half-informed/distracted people might actually mistake the old-gen "One" console as the first in the "Series" line of console. Why risk it at all?

No really i dont. "Hardcore" is too vague a term to create an argument or to respond to one. As i already linked earlier before:
*copy and pastes*
Research says 'casual' and 'hardcore' no longer accurately describe today's gamers
Don Daglow: "I'm calling bullshit on core, mid-core and casual"

. . . . your use of unclear terms such as "hardcore" and "casual" was a mistake which means youre original point that "casuals" - whatever that means - don't buy consoles at launch was a mistake too. "Hardcore" gamers - whatever that means - do not monopolize console supply at launch and the first few months but rather Early Adopters do. Early Adopters is a well-defined marketing and business term for decades and the term precisely describes the people who will buy products like consoles at launch AND covers a whole lot of gaming segments the term "hardcore" wouldn't even begin to describe: The Time Fillers, The Backseat Viewer who wants to return to his/her old gaming hobby, The Hardware Enthusiast, The All-Around Enthusiast etc.

And just to pull back on my original point, there are plenty of distracted, tired and/or partially informed console buyers at launch aka Early Adopters who will very easily make the disappointing mistake of buying an old-gen Xbox One X instead of the new-gen Xbox Series X for themselves or for others due to the similar names, similar ability to play Halo Infinte, price considerations etc.

Look at you trying to change the definition of what a "core console" is from the one that was set by a multi-awarded videogame industry pioneer and expert. You're redefinition is worthless and it reflects badly on you and your argument that you even made an attempt on the first place. Gonna put the Don Daglow's definition here again *cuts and paste*

A "core version" of a new console has become a trade term for "a stripped down model sold for a lower price." The most common downgraded features are memory and hard disk size.

Going by that correct definition, Xbox 360 Core(0GB storage, 2005) is the "core console version" (as if its not obvious enough) counterpart to the launch day Xbox 360(20GB, 2005) while the follow-up Xbox 360 Arcade(256MB,2007) is the "core console counterpart" to the Xbox 360 Elite(2007). The rumored Xbox Series S with its gimped RAM and underclocked CPU will be the "core console counterpart" to the Xbox Series X.

You wouldnt find a better historical precedent to Xbox 9th-gen console hardware and pricing plans than Xbox's 7th-gen console hardware and pricing plans . . . . which is bad news considering Daglow's follow-up historical analysis:

I found no evidence that a core version priced inside the Goldilocks Zone materially changed the fate of a platform whose primary configurations were priced above the appropriate window.

My theory about why: Gamers buy new systems in order to experience great new graphical and audio features, and to play the most stunning games. Core systems do add initial sales volume for manufacturers. But the trade-offs they offer limit the game experience on top titles, which makes these models a bad match for the passionate game fans who drive the console industry.

As the market matures core systems become obsolete very quickly, and users have learned that a little patience will give them the chance to buy a full-featured machine at the same price.

So yeah, like i said before, judging from history, the rumored Xbox Series S is not going to materially affect the result of the Console Wars in favor of MS. Delaying its launch for a year to holiday 2021 just in time for Xbox Series X's and i guess the competition's next-gen console's first price cuts only makes Xbox Series S more irrelevant. Yep, people have legit reasons to question MS approach to its next-gen console and its not just because of a confusing brand name.

Sure but similar hype, similar ability to play launch games on top of similar console names? Thats a recipe for consumer confusion. Keep the 'X' suffix but change the 'Series' keyword. Its an extremely generic term used by many products (Dell G series, Samsung Galaxy M series etc.) to denote a product line and most buyers out-of-habit will hesitate and think-twice to use it as a unique identifier. Change Xbox Series X to Xbox Infinite X or probably even just Xbox X series.

The previous link i provided have external links to pics of those popular home entertainment center. Its going to be a tight-fit even when placed horizontally on its side because of its PC tower design and for those with enclosed entertainment centers or even those that are open but have side-obstacles like vases, books or other electronic devices, XSeX's exhaust fan which is only to one side if placed horizontally may not have enough space to properly vent-out hot air. XSeX looks to requires more thought and compromise to set in a home entertainment center (and spouse) than your averagely designed game console.

Read above in regards to your erroneous use of the vague term "hardcore".

Baseline specs dictate the general scope, economics and acceptable performance of a multiplat game and they are often closer but not always equal to the recommended specs rather than the minimum specs of a game. Low-end PC configurations between the baseline and minimum specs gets a participation award and eats testing resources but often has little to no say in the actual design process. Setting the baseline specs like the CPU and RAM of your multiplat to the rumored low-end next-gen Xbox Series S or worse,the Xbox One constrains the game design and brings down the next-gen experience for everyone in the next-gen Xbox ecosystem.

Focusing on multiplayer is not the right approach to Halo. Ask any Halo vet (or relapsed vet) and they will tell you that Halo is all about great single-player and multi-player experiences. There are plenty of Halo fans who buy Halo for single-player alone. People are attached to the Master Chief. All these statement of yours focusing too much on Halo multiplayer is very worrying and actually gives the impression that Halo seem to be chasing live-services trends. Not good.

If MS/343i really need an un-optimized Halo cross-gen game that uses old-gen specs as a baseline for multiplayer/live services-centric purposes then do a side-story game starring Jameson Locke and Team Osiris. Keep the mainline Halo game focusing on 'Chief as an EXCLUSIVE flagship title for stuff like console launches where the devs could really showcase the potential of the next-gen Xbox hardware and would not look shabby compared to the competition's next-gen exclusives. Keep the mystique of the 'Chief and his series as they are basically synonimous with the Xbox brand identity.

Nah, if there is one thing that people with retail experience learns quickly, it is to never under-estimate customer ignorance when making a purchase. Boutique shops like the Apple store and car dealers are specific enough and have a high sales personnel to potential buyer ratio to mitigate a buyer's lack of product info but for general stores like Walmart or Gamestop where the sales people are often swamped, the potential customer is shit-out of luck. This is why having a clear, distinct brand name is important, there might not be anyone to assist the customer in making a purchase. Something that you could not say for Xbox Series X.

Potential buyers making the mistake of buying an old-gen Xbox One X when what they or the recipient of the purchase really wanted is a next-gen Xbox Series X due to having confusing names. Its a very real thing that could happen - hell, just by looking at an itemized list of names containing a Xbox One X and Xbox Series X can be disorienting. And just to be clear other people did arrive to the same scenarios as i do:

Picture this: it's the holiday season of 2020. A pair of hopeful parents are trying to get the newest console for their bright-eyed kid who made the nice list. "Which Xbox do you want, ma'am?" asks the overworked clerk behind the counter. "The One S, the One X, or the Series X?" The parents ask for the cheaper one. And that's how many Christmases will be ruined by bad naming conventions.

You can imagine someone going to a store and asking for "the Xbox X", and being told there are two of them. "Okay, I want the one that is 4K." But both of them are 4K. "I want the one that plays the new Halo." Except… both of them will play the new Halo, so you can't even use that as the differentiating factor.

LOL. Like i said earlier, Early Adopters is a well-defined marketing and business term for decades and the term precisely describes the people who will buy products like consoles at launch AND covers a whole lot of gaming segments the term "hardcore" wouldn't even begin to describe. Really next time, pick a clear, distinct term when making an argument cause people will call you out and correct you if you don't. Dont use vague terms like the way Xbox names its consoles.

How do people navigate 2 versions of the Switch? If Nintendo can help people figure it out, surely Microsoft can....right?

And not everyone values 4K. That's not what will define next gen.

....and why so much concern over the sales? Options are good for consumers.

rokkerkory · Jan 4, 2020

Geezus I have to give it to some folks on here the award for being persistent lol

Temp_User · Jan 4, 2020

OneBadMutha said:
How do people navigate 2 versions of the Switch? If Nintendo can help people figure it out, surely Microsoft can....right?

And not everyone values 4K. That's not what will define next gen.

Switch Classic and Lite is same gen, right? No need to worry about exclusives or potential cross-gen under-performance.

Temp_User · Jan 4, 2020

Shpeshal Ed said:
Man you've gone to a lot of effort to avoid what ALL people will say:

"Can I get the newest Xbox?"

Sure. I wish every buyer have an sales clerk to attend to them. Also, the question doesnt quite work if the buyer is tasked by the recipient to buy the "next Halo".

EvilBoris · Jan 4, 2020

Temp_User said:
Sure. I wish every buyer have an sales clerk to attend to them. Also, the question doesnt quite work if the buyer is tasked by the recipient to buy the "next Halo".

*Stares at the Xbox display*

"Xbox One All digital edition $99"

"Xbox SeriesX $499 "NEW" "Fastest most Powerful"

So confusing. Which is the new one , the better one?!
I've somehow been tasked with this purchase , but unfortunately I am actually a Venetian plague doctor who has fallen through a rift in time.
I have neither an understanding of the English language, now a concept that better things cost more money.

Justsomeguy · Jan 4, 2020

EvilBoris said:
*Stares at the Xbox display*

"Xbox One All digital edition $99"

"Xbox One SeriesX $499 "NEW" "Fastest most Powerful"

So confusing. Which is the new one , the better one?!
I've somehow been tasked with this purchase , but unfortunately I am actually a Venetian plague doctor who has fallen through a rift in time.
I have neither an understanding of the English language, now a concept that better things cost more money.

Except you called it the Xbox one series x, which isn't its name... Ironic. 😉

EvilBoris · Jan 4, 2020

Justsomeguy said:
Except you called it the Xbox one series x, which isn't its name... Ironic. 😉

goddamn Autocorrect 😂

Paxton25 · Jan 4, 2020

EvilBoris said:
*Stares at the Xbox display*

"Xbox One All digital edition $99"

"Xbox One SeriesX $499 "NEW" "Fastest most Powerful"

So confusing. Which is the new one , the better one?!
I've somehow been tasked with this purchase , but unfortunately I am actually a Venetian plague doctor who has fallen through a rift in time.
I have neither an understanding of the English language, now a concept that better things cost more money.

It's not called the Xbox one series X tho. There's no one in the name

OneBadMutha · Jan 4, 2020

Temp_User said:
Switch Classic and Lite is same gen, right? No need to worry about exclusives or potential cross-gen under-performance.

Lockhart and Series X are the same gen. The other stuff will get phased out.

Noble · Jan 4, 2020

EvilBoris said:
goddamn Autocorrect 😂

Next gen Xbox is just called Xbox. The branding will reflect that.

Trup1aya · Jan 4, 2020

Temp_User said:
Judging from the press reactions when the name Xbox Series X was unveiled and subsequent attempts to "clarify" that aforementioned name, it sure looks-like MS is wasting marketing time and money. I dont know if they are getting their money's worth at all.:

*copy and pastes*
Post-TGA reveal from Dec 12:

https://youtu.be/26oyiUuWaRw?t=109
The Xbox One Series X: bad name, good design
'Xbox Series X' is the worst name Microsoft could choose for its next-gen console
Xbox Series X's Name Is Asking For Consumer Confusion

Post-BusinessInsider explanation of the name from Dec 17:
Xbox Series X name explained by Microsoft, still confusing
Xbox Series X Name Explained (Sort Of)

Then there's that Xbox End of the Year interview with Phil Spencer From Dec 23:
Next-Gen Xbox Name Explained by Phil Spencer, Wants It to Be the Best Xbox
Phil Spencer Tries To Rationalize The New Xbox's Dubious Bad Name

Im sure Microsoft has tons of marketing money to burn to try and try again to "clarify" it but couldnt they save their money and just come-up with a less confusing name for their next-gen console? Like seriously, Xbox Series X and Xbox One X is too similar and worse, half-informed/distracted people might actually mistake the old-gen "One" console as the first in the "Series" line of console. Why risk it at all?

I think your vastly overestimating how much it will cost to "clarify". People wont have an issue understanding which console is the next gen. But news sites need there clicks and controversy

No really i dont. "Hardcore" is too vague a term to create an argument or to respond to one. As i already linked earlier before:
*copy and pastes*
Research says 'casual' and 'hardcore' no longer accurately describe today's gamers
Don Daglow: "I'm calling bullshit on core, mid-core and casual"

. . . . your use of unclear terms such as "hardcore" and "casual" was a mistake which means youre original point that "casuals" - whatever that means - don't buy consoles at launch was a mistake too. "Hardcore" gamers - whatever that means - do not monopolize console supply at launch and the first few months but rather Early Adopters do. Early Adopters is a well-defined marketing and business term for decades and the term precisely describes the people who will buy products like consoles at launch AND covers a whole lot of gaming segments the term "hardcore" wouldn't even begin to describe: The Time Fillers, The Backseat Viewer who wants to return to his/her old gaming hobby, The Hardware Enthusiast, The All-Around Enthusiast etc.

And just to pull back on my original point, there are plenty of distracted, tired and/or partially informed console buyers at launch aka Early Adopters who will very easily make the disappointing mistake of buying an old-gen Xbox One X instead of the new-gen Xbox Series X for themselves or for others due to the similar names, similar ability to play Halo Infinte, price considerations etc.

Bro, I just Simply looked up the word "hardcore" in my phones dictionary . The result:

SINGULAR NOUN [oft N of n, N n]
You can refer to the members of a group who are the most committed to its activities or who are the most involved in them as a hard core of members or as the hard-core members.
We've got a hard core of customers that have stood by us.
A hard-core group of right-wing senators had hoped to sway their colleagues.

That "research" doesn't nor Daglow's opinion trumps common word use. Its really not that complicated. If you cant use context to decipher meaning then we have a separate issue. But theres nothing wrong about calling the most energized, premium customers "hardcore".

Look at you trying to change the definition of what a "core console" is from the one that was set by a multi-awarded videogame industry pioneer and expert. You're redefinition is worthless and it reflects badly on you and your argument that you even made an attempt on the first place. Gonna put the Don Daglow's definition here again *cuts and paste*

A "core version" of a new console has become a trade term for "a stripped down model sold for a lower price." The most common downgraded features are memory and hard disk size.

Going by that correct definition, Xbox 360 Core(0GB storage, 2005) is the "core console version" (as if its not obvious enough) counterpart to the launch day Xbox 360(20GB, 2005) while the follow-up Xbox 360 Arcade(256MB,2007) is the "core console counterpart" to the Xbox 360 Elite(2007). The rumored Xbox Series S with its gimped RAM and underclocked CPU will be the "core console counterpart" to the Xbox Series X.

The concept of a "core" product has roots long before console makere started stripping out features and marketing these consoles as "core." Notice how in quote you provided it noted that Core "Has become a trade term for a stripper down version." In other words, manufactures internally and in terms of marketing, began using the word differently from how it had been used previously.

You wouldnt find a better historical precedent to Xbox 9th-gen console hardware and pricing plans than Xbox's 7th-gen console hardware and pricing plans . . . . which is bad news considering Daglow's follow-up historical analysis:

I found no evidence that a core version priced inside the Goldilocks Zone materially changed the fate of a platform whose primary configurations were priced above the appropriate window.

My theory about why: Gamers buy new systems in order to experience great new graphical and audio features, and to play the most stunning games. Core systems do add initial sales volume for manufacturers. But the trade-offs they offer limit the game experience on top titles, which makes these models a bad match for the passionate game fans who drive the console industry.

As the market matures core systems become obsolete very quickly, and users have learned that a little patience will give them the chance to buy a full-featured machine at the same price.

So yeah, like i said before, judging from history, the rumored Xbox Series S is not going to materially affect the result of the Console Wars in favor of MS. Delaying its launch for a year to holiday 2021 just in time for Xbox Series X's and i guess the competition's next-gen console's first price cuts only makes Xbox Series S more irrelevant. Yep, people have legit reasons to question MS approach to its next-gen console and its not just because of a confusing brand name.

No I don't accept this as a historical precedent because I don't accept that these the "arcade" and the "core" skus were actually "core products" because they weren't actually aimed at the average or typical xbox consumer.

He's right that gamers are motivated by experiencing new graphical and audio experiences and playing stunning games, and the Lockhart will provide exactly that compared to thre xbox one S.

No, launching the device intended for the mass market, shortly after launching the niche, high end device is NOTHING like, launching a cheap, barebones model long after the core audience has already purchased your product.

Sure but similar hype, similar ability to play launch games on top of similar console names? Thats a recipe for consumer confusion. Keep the 'X' suffix but change the 'Series' keyword. Its an extremely generic term used by many products (Dell G series, Samsung Galaxy M series etc.) to denote a product line and most buyers out-of-habit will hesitate and think-twice to use it as a unique identifier. Change Xbox Series X to Xbox Infinite X or probably even just Xbox X series.

In 2020 there will not be similar hype for Xbox Series X and Xbox One X. One will completely drown out the other when it comes to marketing, in-store advertising, and shelf space. It wont be a problem.

The previous link i provided have external links to pics of those popular home entertainment center. Its going to be a tight-fit even when placed horizontally on its side because of its PC tower design and for those with enclosed entertainment centers or even those that are open but have side-obstacles like vases, books or other electronic devices, XSeX's exhaust fan which is only to one side if placed horizontally may not have enough space to properly vent-out hot air. XSeX looks to requires more thought and compromise to set in a home entertainment center (and spouse) than your averagely designed game console.

Modern entertainmentment systems are designed to house receivers, which are typically larger than the series X. The entertainment center in the link could house the Series X , horizontally without issue. The Series X, laid horizontally needs no more horizontal space than an xbox one X. Unless people had aspirations of stacking things on top of their horizontal, this really wont be a problem.

Read above in regards to your erroneous use of the vague term "hardcore".

Its not a vague term, nor did I use it erroneously

Baseline specs dictate the general scope, economics and acceptable performance of a multiplat game and they are often closer but not always equal to the recommended specs rather than the minimum specs of a game. Low-end PC configurations between the baseline and minimum specs gets a participation award and eats testing resources but often has little to no say in the actual design process. Setting the baseline specs like the CPU and RAM of your multiplat to the rumored low-end next-gen Xbox Series S or worse,the Xbox One constrabbnins the game design and brings down the next-gen experience for everyone in the next-gen Xbox ecosystem.

Lockhart will exceed any multiplatform developers baseline specs.

Focusing on multiplayer is not the right approach to Halo. Ask any Halo vet (or relapsed vet) and they will tell you that Halo is all about great single-player and multi-player experiences. There are plenty of Halo fans who buy Halo for single-player alone. People are attached to the Master Chief. All these statement of yours focusing too much on Halo multiplayer is very worrying and actually gives the impression that Halo seem to be chasing live-services trends. Not good.

If MS/343i really need an un-optimized Halo cross-gen game that uses old-gen specs as a baseline for multiplayer/live services-centric purposes then do a side-story game starring Jameson Locke and Team Osiris. Keep the mainline Halo game focusing on 'Chief as an EXCLUSIVE flagship title for stuff like console launches where the devs could really showcase the potential of the next-gen Xbox hardware and would not look shabby compared to the competition's next-gen exclusives. Keep the mystique of the 'Chief and his series as they are basically synonimous with the Xbox brand identity.

You arent going to find many more Hardend halo vets than myself. And while you are right that its important to have a good campaign and a good multiplayer suite... the series failings are strongly rooted in bungie and 343 failures in the multiplayer department. This has NOTHING to do with live services and everything to do with failing to properly maintain the core principles of multiplayer engagement.

I was there when CE came out and players were lugging OG xboxes around to play 16players LANs in their friends basements. I was there when H2 revolutionized online matchmaking. I was there when Halo3's forge and theater turned Halo into a multimedia phenomenon. I was there when Reach started causing people to roll their eyes at Halo MP chasing trends and when Halo 4 had record breaking sales, but the MP was dead 2 weeks later. I was there when people bought xbox ones specifically so they could get the crew back together for some classic MP, but the server didn't work. And I'm here right now playing Halo5 which takes as many steps in the wrong direction as it does in the right direction.

Halo Infinite is an Xbox one game first and foremost. So they need to deliver the best campaign Xbox One can handle. that said, the multiplayer has to knock it out of the park. And if they really want to please vets (current and lapsed) then it needs to be on as many MS supported platforms as possible, so that all of these people can playing without dealing with high costs as supply limitations as a barrier to entry.

You might be of the opinion that the best thing they can do for Halo Infinite is make it exclusive to a console that few will be able to get there hands on at release, but your wrong. They need to put the game in as many hands as possible so that everyone who has any remaining interest in the game at all has a way to check it out and enjoy it with friends. This way, when when the next-gen only sequel comes out you'll have a massive fanbase across multiple platforms eager for the follow up.

The games been in development since 2013 for xb1, including a new more efficient engine. The idea that they could shift it to a next gen exclusive, fully capitalize on the new hardware, and still make the best possible sequel, isn't based in reality.

Nah, if there is one thing that people with retail experience learns quickly, it is to never under-estimate customer ignorance when making a purchase. Boutique shops like the Apple store and car dealers are specific enough and have a high sales personnel to potential buyer ratio to mitigate a buyer's lack of product info but for general stores like Walmart or Gamestop where the sales people are often swamped, the potential customer is shit-out of luck. This is why having a clear, distinct brand name is important, there might not be anyone to assist the customer in making a purchase. Something that you could not say for Xbox Series X.

Potential buyers making the mistake of buying an old-gen Xbox One X when what they or the recipient of the purchase really wanted is a next-gen Xbox Series X due to having confusing names. Its a very real thing that could happen - hell, just by looking at an itemized list of names containing a Xbox One X and Xbox Series X can be disorienting. And just to be clear other people did arrive to the same scenarios as i do:

Picture this: it's the holiday season of 2020. A pair of hopeful parents are trying to get the newest console for their bright-eyed kid who made the nice list. "Which Xbox do you want, ma'am?" asks the overworked clerk behind the counter. "The One S, the One X, or the Series X?" The parents ask for the cheaper one. And that's how many Christmases will be ruined by bad naming conventions.

You can imagine someone going to a store and asking for "the Xbox X", and being told there are two of them. "Okay, I want the one that is 4K." But both of them are 4K. "I want the one that plays the new Halo." Except… both of them will play the new Halo, so you can't even use that as the differentiating factor.

Yup. I've imagined it... and it's still absurd. Imagine believing that in 2020 some parents with aspirations of buying the newest console would fail fo specify that they want "the newest console". Imagine believing they wouldn't know how much they expect to pay before they even get to the store. Imagine believing they'd walk passed all the explicit signs, still completely oblivious.

There's gonna be some disappointed kids, but not because of an accident... but because there won't be enough Series X for everyone that wants one

LOL. Like i said earlier, Early Adopters is a well-defined marketing and business term for decades and the term precisely describes the people who will buy products like consoles at launch AND covers a whole lot of gaming segments the term "hardcore" wouldn't even begin to describe. Really next time, pick a clear, distinct term when making an argument cause people will call you out and correct you if you don't. Dont use vague terms like the way Xbox names its consoles.

And "hardcore" is also a well defined term, predating console fandom, that , especially when coupled with context, is easily understood by anyone conversing in good faith. It isn't vague at all. You called me out, but didn't correct anything.

Dictionary.com:

adjective
unswervingly committed; uncompromising; dedicated

Webster:

adjective CONFIRMED, DIE-HARD

There's no genuine reason why you should be confused about me referring to those who go through the extreme hassle of securing premium launch hardware as "hardcore" fans. There's nothing inaccurate or vague about it. Please stop playing dumb.

Prime2 · Jan 4, 2020

Temp_User said:
Sure. I wish every buyer have an sales clerk to attend to them. Also, the question doesnt quite work if the buyer is tasked by the recipient to buy the "next Halo".

And I suppose in all these shops there are no sales banners or anything ?? The current Xbox versions on sale will probably not be for sale anymore or if they are not advertised or talked about.

Deleted member 18161 · Jan 5, 2020

DeaDPooL_jlp said:
That seems crazy, currently that gpu runs for about $700, granted that will drop once the even newer gpus release next year but still.

It's a year away, Sony / MS buy in bulk of tens of millions, they're chips soldered to the main board not large bulky cards and most of a PC GPU's price tag is profit.

OmniStrife · Jun 11, 2020

I can't fathom how ppl prefer the powerbrick design.

oreomunsta · Jun 11, 2020

OmniStrife said:
I can't fathom how ppl prefer the powerbrick design.

I can live with it! I'm not a big fan of the console design for the PS5, so between the two I prefer the Series X

ILikeFeet · Jun 11, 2020

OmniStrife said:
I can't fathom how ppl prefer the powerbrick design.

I think it's better than the PS5

Sordid Plebeian · Jun 11, 2020

I prefer the simplicity

ToadPacShakur · Jun 11, 2020

I like both in their own ways. PS5 honestly looks like one of those fanboy renders that you'd never expect to get made lol

Gestault · Jun 11, 2020

ToadPacShakur said:
I like both in their own ways. PS5 honestly looks like one of those fanboy renders that you'd never expect to get made lol

This is where I landed, even knowing it'll probably look much cooler with colors besides white for the "fin" wrap.

The number of people in their mid-30s saying a design style from the mid-to-late 2000s looks "futuristic" surprises me.

Xbox Series X announced (formerly Project Scarlett)

Thoughts on the name?

I like it

Meeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

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