Not as difficult when you launch a year later and at a $100 premium.
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Xbox Series X: A Closer Look at the Technology Powering the Next Generation
- Thread starter Deleted member 5028
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Not as difficult when you launch a year later and at a $100 premium.
You're underestimating the overall power upgrade both consoles are bringing. The differences are going to matter less and be less noticeable.
lol nah. The way MS handled the XB1 announcement was an embarrassment. I love the way they are handling XSX now. Even if they get beat on specs, these consoles will be so close compared to last time that the only people who will throw a fit are crazy, annoying fanboys who grasp at anything for their "warz".
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You're right that the differences would be hardly noticeable. However, I think people will still hit them over the head with it.
Honestly the thing I'm most excited about is all the potential multipliers built in to these new consoles rather than the raw power. It sounds like between the dedicated RT hardware, the RT Audio support, the Machine Learning optimizations, the Variable Rate Shading and Mesh Shaders, and the dedicated decompression hardware related to texture streaming that these consoles could end up punching way higher than even their raw TFs compared to the existing consoles. That's not even mentioning the RDNA efficiency gains.
No, results are the only thing that matter. The only way people will hit them over the head with it is if games consistently look and perform noticeably worse on XSX compared to PS5.
I don't agree. It was to expensive, which let to the fact it got constantly outsold by every other console. The balance was also really off. The CPU was to weak and the GPU was to strong. This resulted in developers pushing for 4K that led to sometimes inferior framerates. There's more than one example of games running worse on X than on Pro. That's pretty weird for a stronger console on all fronts. Guess MS was really demanding 4K native because that was the previous buzzword. Now it's "teraflops".
Sure, it's mighty impressive X can run RDR2 at 4K native, but I'm pretty sure 4K checkerboarding/1440p for 100 euro's/dollars/whatever less would have sold a lot more.
X was released with the full knowledge it wasn't going to sell like hot cakes, it was a premium product, Phil even said the S would sell more, so sales performance isn't a reason to use against its design. We got plenty of games that received huge gains from X, BC to current gen. 4k RDR & RDR2, Gears 5 @ 4k/60, FH4 @ 4K etc those are enough to demonstrate the machine was a sublime piece of tech, even though some devs didn't invest the amount needed to squeeze out similar performance, that's not an issue with the X itself but their dev pipeline.
In fact, X design influenced XSX and that wouldn't be the case if it wasn't perceived and proved it's capabilities.
I'd trade in 2TF for a beefier CPU with 1440p games @ 60fps any day. That would've been really masterful. You can't expect multiplatform devs to squeeze out the same performance as first party studios. I'm just saying 399 with 4K checkerboarding (of which, let's be honest, most people don't even see the difference with native 4K at a proper distance) would have been the better choice. Probably overall lower resolutions but with better performance.
the goal of Xbox One X was never to be the most selling console, it wouldnt have been the 4K machine if thats what they wanted.
The goal was to provide a permium option for console players that want the best experience a console could offer which it did in spades.
As other's have said, it's a premium console. You missed the entire point of the console.
Anyway, I was talking how they revealed it.
You shouldn't compare the XSX to a stop-gap system. Look at the PS4 and Xbox One, compare the XSX to them, and be amazed.
If we are talking about memory bus specifically, bits don't matter much, what metters is the result MS was looking for. 560GB/s is a huge jump from both last gen and the X. 320-bit? 384-bit? Why do you even care? It's just a means to an end and if the CPU isn't a problem and there are enough pins, who cares?
And yes, I would have been happier if MS was going the full monty and having a 20GB setup.
If you dont mind could you shoot me over a link for the receiver you purchased?
Unless my usage doesnt count because of your last sentence.
heres my setup
3 in-wall front speakers, 2 in-ceiling rear speakers and subwoofer on the side
Xbox One HDMI -> TV
Xbox One Optical -> Astro Stand (on subwoofer) -> Receiver
PS4 HDMI -> TV
PS4 Optical -> Receiver (just unplugged)
Nintendo Switch HDMI -> Xbox One
(Switch is hidden behind books)
Surface Pro HDMI -> Xbox One
So I guess now I would need 4 hdmi inputs minimum since the Series X doesnt have HDMI-IN : /
edit: would a new receiver need to be HDMI 2.1 to make all the new stuff work?
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I know. I'm just saying it could've sold and perform better if other choices were made and it was better balanced.
When you design the box such that users can access and replace the internal drive, it's going to inform the placement of all the other internals as well as complicate the development environment when devs don't know exactly what they'll have access to.
I'm not convinced that allowing the replaceable ssd is worth the hassle when users will overwhelmingly gravitate to the far easier options available.
I can all but guarentee that most XSX owners will simply use large USB HDDs as cold storage and is the 1TB internal for the next-gen games they are actively playing
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This is the most important point to make here. The differences will be ABSOLUTELY negligible to the consumer. I honestly do not forecast a situation where either console RUNS AWAY with a power lead. 10% "more power" means nothing if both games are hitting 4k 60 with HDR10. That's pretty much the ceiling this generation. Even some of the pie-in-the-sky features both have marketed will not be relevant to 14 year old billy at home. Can it hit 4K/60 with HDR10? That's the ceiling.
I love love love it too, I'm so torn up on that. I love using my switch or surface with the xbox and being able to change back and forth so quickly.
The only remote I use in my entire life is this bad boy
so if this xbox doesnt have IR I guess Im a bit confused how it will control my receiver and TV the way it does now
Are you me?I love love love it too, I'm so torn up on that. I love using my switch or surface with the xbox and being able to change back and forth so quickly.
The only remote I use in my entire life is this bad boy
so if this xbox doesnt have IR I guess Im a bit confused how it will control my receiver and TV the way it does now
best friends who probably need brand new receivers and remotes lol
As this is a single APU, wouldn't this mean that the Zen 2 CCXs for XSX are being produced on N7P instead of N7 like the desktop CPUs? They would get area savings from N7P over N7 correct? This would help to explain being able to fit in extra cache without increasing the overall die and/or package size.
the balance comes from delivering more options like the S and X. This gen Xbox suffered from things completely different than hardware quality (PR/Messaging and First Party lineup) because S and X are arguably the most high quality consoles on the market as of right now.
User Banned (5 Days): Platform Warring; Prior Bans for the Same
I agree. Getting whopped on power on again would be a big yikes for MS engineering team.
You don't think they were aiming to be the most powerful? It would be an L whichever way they want to spin it.
Watching the DF video on Minecraft's ray tracing, if I am hearing them right, MS had Minecraft going at 1080p60 with DXR on the XSX. What does that mean for a theoretical Lockhart? I'm assuming DXR wouldn't be supported, if for instance every other spec between them is equal besides CU count drop.
Apparently the framerate was variable between 30-60.
As for Lockhart, they're going to have to figure out a way to get it running. I think feature parity - that you'll get the same experience on both machines - is a necessity. Otherwise they greatly undercut Lockhart's value proposition and risk confusing their messaging.
From what I've read, RT largely does scale with resolution. But it does beg the question how much they'll have to downscale things - and how much the end presentation will suffer - if XSX is 'only' rendering at 1080p.
Also worth noting that Minecraft's implementation is the most costly type of RT there is. Most games won't do path tracing.
Digital Foundry || Minecraft DXR on Xbox Series X: Next-Gen Ray Tracing Analysis!
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/10/30/minecraft-rtx-ray-tracing-hands-on/ I can't find other mentions of perf on RTX 2080TI, besides Nvidia aiming to hit 1080p60fps on RTX 2060. So most recent apples to most recent apples: Minecraft RTX runs at 1080p
www.resetera.com
Ah ok so that's slightly reassuring, but it's still Minecraft and that should adjust the scales a bit. Seems like any RT on a 4.2 or whatever teraflop Lockhart will turn RT into a feature for "premium" users, aka hardly supported
So the XSS will run it in 880p 30fps. If you buy a lower-res console, you have to consider that you will have to play games at lower resolution :)
Minecraft RT is the heaviest RT title around, it's fully ray-traced (path traced), not a combo of rasterization and RT. So don't take it as an example, usually, games do 1 main RT effect and maybe utilize some other small RT uses but Minecraft and Quake 2 RTX are a huge stress test. Don't let their simple graphics fool you, they are an order of magnitude more RT intensive than games like BFV.
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I hope you remember your justifications when these drives cost an arm and a leg for the next five years, or when your internal drive dies and you have to get a whole new unit.
The cost won't bother me because I'll never buy one. There's no reason too when I can get way more storage out of a USB drive for way less money - at a far superior cost:size ratio than any removable ssd would have offered. This will be the reality for most people.
I haven't lost an internal drive in the nearly 20 years I've owned xboxes. Nor on any other console for that matter. So I'm not really worried about that either.
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Lose RDR2 @ 4K with a gain of a few fps on select few unoptimised games? Absolutely not.
This is quite nebulous, its proved to perform well, and if pushed it performs brilliantly. Sales is irrelevant in this context as it achieved its goal.
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I hope you re read the statements from MS regarding storage.
1. 3.1 USB externals can be used so a normal SSD enclosure can be used as external storage which doesn't force you into buying the OPTIONAL proprietary external drive.
2. Series X games use the speed with the new series x api to provide better game worlds. They need the specific ssd to run. Just like Sony's will. You can install series X games on to a regular external HDD but you will simply need to move them onto the internal to play them. If you want to store more than 15 games and have instant access to them then (personally I wouldn't need to if I can just move games around on a regular hdd external) THEN buy the expanded storage.
3. you are making a pretty big assumption that the external drives will stay at a forever high price which markets have shown to be false
I have an older version of the current slim line of Marantz recievers.
https://www.us.marantz.com/en-US/shop/avreceivers/nr1510
I believe this one is a 5.2 capable receiver and there is another one which is 7.2. The might have different specs for inputs, but I haven't looked at the the new models to know exactly what the differences are.
BTW, I like your setup. It's "clean" while still looking very comfortable.
The reason PC games use so much VRAM is because the penalty for not having something in local memory and having to move it in over PCIe is so severe. The GPU ends up holding way more in local memory because of this whether it needs the full bandwidth of the GPU memory or not. Also, minus the system reservation on the XBSX, there's only 3.5GB of slower RAM left available. I'm thinking most games will easily be able to accumulate this much data in CPU + I/O + lower-bandwidth GPU ops + everythng else that's not bandwidth intensive.
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Isn't that the point of having cheaper hardware, for those who don't want RT and other high end features like native 4K? The games will be scalable like PC. You want high end you buy Series X.
So I just rewatched the load time video and holy cow that load time is greatly improved.
xbox series x vs x1x is 10 sec vs 52sec or 5.2x faster and if I'm not mistaken that's just a bc game no added optimizations
xbox series x vs x1x is 10 sec vs 52sec or 5.2x faster and if I'm not mistaken that's just a bc game no added optimizations
I dont want RT to be a "high end" feature, aka hardly supported by anyone other than 1st parties. I think it would be best if it was a part of the baseline
lockhart will most likely have RT as well. having a split in support will just be a nail for MS's coffin if they force devs to support both. then they won't even bother with RT, which undermines MS's push for it
Well then pay for it with Series X. I don't get the issue. Even the Nvidia 2060 Super which retailed for $400 had frame rates drop severely when turned on.
Nail in MS's coffin? Nvidia has games with it and AMD gets the same releases and they don't have cards with RT yet. Not sure I get your point.
I watched that and had to laugh at how slow it seemed on the old xbox ha. Pretty cool tech.
not saying it'll put Xbox into the grave, but it'll make RT support in the future more spotty because devs will have to build for both full rasterizing and rt and some might just not bother with it. when the baseline has rt, then we can see better optimization that will benefit everyone
And similarly, the XSX's RAM pool is really the only place GPU data can be stored, as the SSD's max transfer rate of 4.8GBps is a fraction of what a PCI-E 3.0 16x slot can do.
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