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Gjallarsean

Member
Oct 10, 2018
744
Honestly, who gives a shit? The fact is their competition is doing a pro consumer move even if the numbers don't justify it.
This is where I'm at. I get the point that BC isn't a profitable money-maker for Sony, or at least profitable enough to make the investment in it worth it. It's repeated ad-nauseum on here whenever BC gets brought up in any thread. And I always come back to - why should a single person care if it's profitable for Sony when their competitor does it? That shouldn't deter folks from loudly calling on Sony to get their shit together in this regard.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,341
Canada
In the interview, Jason Ronald mentioned they speak with the publisher to approve the titles (which makes sense).

At the very least, I hope we can get BC enhancements (either FPS or resolution) for as many Microsoft published titles across all generations as possible.
 
Jun 10, 2018
1,060
It's cool to see this finally getting rolled out, just odd that they didn't include some other first party titles like Halo 5 and/or Gears 4. I'd like to see Halo 5 running at 120fps.
 

lunanto

Banned
Dec 1, 2017
7,648
I admire these efforts for sure, but I do wonder, aren´t PC´s basically the best machines for these things?

Do console gamers care that much about double framerate?

I don´t know, I find this a little weird tbh.
 

Geode

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,453
Why do I feel like I bought the wrong system this time?
Anyway, congrats to Microsoft.
 

warcrow

Member
Oct 30, 2017
916



Gah, didn't think of this!

This indeed fixed it. Both WD2 and FC4 are running at 60fps after the reboot and it's just so great! This feels like a pivotal moment--a platform manufacture sort of patching a 3rd part game. I'm sure it's happened somewhere else and I'm just not recalling.

Worth noting--when the game is running, the Xbox overlay shows Auto HDR but not FPS Boost even though they're running at 60FPS.
 

Lube Man

Alt-Account
Banned
Jan 18, 2021
1,247
A game here or there doesn't push console sales. I'm sure Sony has done an analysis on profitability and determined the amount of effort isn't worth it.

And herein lies the problem. It's all about the long term game, whereas Sony is short sighted.

Yeah, half the owners of Xbox Series X will not buy a lot of old games, however when we have a choice to do what we want versus having no choice, ill take the choice.

I bought a lot of PS1 games in anticipation of them getting PS5 BC. My fucking phone does a better job at emulation than PS5 (which has none), so I'm sure PS5 can do.

Licensing issue? Can be solved. Don't solve for all games, solve for some. Handful even. Give me 5 games to start. And a game every month. I don't care if only 25% of their PS1 library is backwards compatible by the end of generation. If they fail to do so for PS1, then they don't give a Damm about PS2 and PS3.

Remember, Sony release PlayStation Classic with zero licensing issues for the games they released. Start with those games and then we will talk.

Finance or no finance, this is not about making money but about making legacy. Sony should be happy even if it breaks even by the end of generation.

Sony has no legacy in my eyes. If they did, they would show me.

/rant

(I just want to play Dino Crisis. Don't care about FPS or 4K. Just give me the barebone product).
 

Patitoloco

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
23,595
I admire these efforts for sure, but I do wonder, aren´t PC´s basically the best machines for these things?

Do console gamers care that much about double framerate?

I don´t know, I find this a little weird tbh.
I mean, yes, PC have been able to play these games at 60fps for ages.

It doesn't mean that console players wont care, it's a really good improvement in case someone just want to replay these games.
 

Iron Eddie

Banned
Nov 25, 2019
9,812
I think a better way of looking at it isn't people who would use the feature but people who wouldn't purchase the console without it. If people still will purchase the console then why would Sony throw money at the feature?
There will always be a balance between what is profitable and what the consumer desires. Sony also discontinued the 20GB model of the PS3 before the 60GB model even though it was $100 cheaper. Consumer saw a larger hard drive and built in wi-fi as the deciding factor. Even this gen we have a $399 PS5 that is harder to find than the $499 disk drive. One could easily make the argument there is more demand for the $499 model but we will never know if Sony is purposely creating less because they make more money on the disk version?

I just don't agree with blanket statements the consumer doesn't care about such feature when the consumer is not even given the opportunity after the fact.

We can clearly see the Series X is harder to buy than the Series S for example. That doesn't mean Microsoft should pull the $299 model and then say nobody wanted it. Instead you just keep it and let consumers decide until nobody buys the product anymore. Same thing with the PS3, you stop selling it when nobody is buying it. The last PS3 model with BC was the MGS4 bundle and it sold out. Why didn't they make more? Simple, Sony was still likely losing money on the hardware.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,334
Just tried some Sniper Elite 4 and, as someone who'd booted it up recently on Series X for a Reward Quest... yes that's an improvement 😅 Feels like magic.

What's wild is that the console required a restart to enable the FPS Boost but the game didn't need to restart. It didn't have the Boost so I hard refreshed the console and the game loaded up - mid-game - from Quick Resume and FPS Boost was enabled. Amazing!
 

arsene_P5

Prophet of Regret
Member
Apr 17, 2020
15,438
Different approaches actually. Sony has data saying the majority of users don't really play previous gen games, so they don't invest on it. Microsoft sees things differently and believes it's a worth investment. It'd be really cool if both did this, unfortunately they don't.
Why did they invest in PS4 BC then? What Ryan says and what he does are two different things.
 

Deleted member 46804

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 17, 2018
4,129
There will always be a balance between what is profitable and what the consumer desires. Sony also discontinued the 20GB model of the PS3 before the 60GB model even though it was $100 cheaper. Consumer saw a larger hard drive and built in wi-fi as the deciding factor. Even this gen we have a $399 PS5 that is harder to find than the $499 disk drive. One could easily make the argument there is more demand for the $499 model but we will never know if Sony is purposely creating less because they make more money on the disk version?

I just don't agree with blanket statements the consumer doesn't care about such feature when the consumer is not even given the opportunity after the fact.

We can clearly see the Series X is harder to buy than the Series S for example. That doesn't mean Microsoft should pull the $299 model and then say nobody wanted it. Instead you just keep it and let consumers decide until nobody buys the product anymore. Same thing with the PS3, you stop selling it when nobody is buying it. The last PS3 model with BC was the MGS4 bundle and it sold out. Why didn't they make more? Simple, Sony was still likely losing money on the hardware.
Apples and Oranges with your comparison. The bottom line is that the PS5 will set the world on fire without more/better backwards compatibility. The consumer won't choose not to buy the console due to the lack of the feature. What's to motivate Sony in improving the situation other than goodwill?
 

Yahsper

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,519
A game here or there doesn't push console sales. I'm sure Sony has done an analysis on profitability and determined the amount of effort isn't worth it.
Maybe not, but its initiatives like these that solidify my choice to purchase any game I want to play for Xbox instead of PlayStation. I'm trusting MS with my library in much greater degree than I do Nintendo or Sony.

Add in Game Pass and how the lines between console generations are being blurred increasingly and you see how moves like these just massively leverage a decade worth of Xbox-games and keeps them feeling modern. 'Old games' is a term that loses its meaning like this. You can boot up a 5 year old Xbox game and it can feel like a modern release with 60 fps, HDR and hopefully someday, higher resolution.
 

WhiskerFrisker

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,347
New York City
There will always be a balance between what is profitable and what the consumer desires. Sony also discontinued the 20GB model of the PS3 before the 60GB model even though it was $100 cheaper. Consumer saw a larger hard drive and built in wi-fi as the deciding factor. Even this gen we have a $399 PS5 that is harder to find than the $499 disk drive. One could easily make the argument there is more demand for the $499 model but we will never know if Sony is purposely creating less because they make more money on the disk version?

I just don't agree with blanket statements the consumer doesn't care about such feature when the consumer is not even given the opportunity after the fact.

We can clearly see the Series X is harder to buy than the Series S for example. That doesn't mean Microsoft should pull the $299 model and then say nobody wanted it. Instead you just keep it and let consumers decide until nobody buys the product anymore. Same thing with the PS3, you stop selling it when nobody is buying it. The last PS3 model with BC was the MGS4 bundle and it sold out. Why didn't they make more? Simple, Sony was still likely losing money on the hardware.
What's stopping people from demanding/making a campaign on the level of No DRM 2013 then? Or people dropping PlayStation and going to Xbox? Switch sells gangbusters and had fuck all for Backwards compatibility

'Old games' is a term that loses its meaning like this. You can boot up a 5 year old Xbox game and it can feel like a modern release with 60 fps, HDR and hopefully someday, higher resolution.
No it will not. Mechanics and quality of life is all different. There's not enough people motivated to buy a new platform to play years old games if you take out nostalgia.
 

DeepBlueDay

Member
Jan 10, 2020
372
Buying a series X was so worth it for the backwards compatibility alone. Being able to play ssx3 and red dead redemption again without any problems at all, with great IQ on a basically silent console is really mind-blowing. And those are just 2 examples from a massive list.
 

Iron Eddie

Banned
Nov 25, 2019
9,812
What's stopping people from demanding/making a campaign on the level of No DRM 2013 then? Or people dropping PlayStation and going to Xbox? Switch sells gangbusters and had fuck all for Backwards compatibility


No it will not. Mechanics and quality of life is all different. There's not enough people motivated to buy a new platform to play years old games if you take out nostalgia.
Apples and Oranges with your comparison. The bottom line is that the PS5 will set the world on fire without more/better backwards compatibility. The consumer won't choose not to buy the console due to the lack of the feature. What's to motivate Sony in improving the situation other than goodwill?

How can it be apples and oranges if at the end of the day you only have 1 fruit given to you?

Because people care about their digital libraries but don't care about PS1,2,3 compatibility. You can't compare PS4 compatibility with previous generations.

Then have a PS5 that also has PS1 and PS2 support and see which system consumers grab first. This has no bearing on the overall success of the PS5 because BC is not the main driver for consumers, but if consumers were given that choice then and only then would we see what demand is. It's an added benefit that cannot be easily discounted just because it doesn't exist.
 

JEH

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,192
I restarted my Xbox and don't see the FPS boost badge when I press guide when playing WD2
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,489
Cape Cod, MA
Just tried some Sniper Elite 4 and, as someone who'd booted it up recently on Series X for a Reward Quest... yes that's an improvement 😅 Feels like magic.

What's wild is that the console required a restart to enable the FPS Boost but the game didn't need to restart. It didn't have the Boost so I hard refreshed the console and the game loaded up - mid-game - from Quick Resume and FPS Boost was enabled. Amazing!
Since the game code doesn't change, this actually seems like the more logical thing to happen with the hindsight of knowing that's what happened.

I also booted it recently for that Reward Quest... and I do not think I'll be testing it :P. NSLT though? For sure.
 

hwalker84

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,784
Pittsburgh
So the game still thinks that it's running at 30fps? That's crazy. Does that mean that potentially this could apply to basically every game?
In theory yes but if you watch the interview it's dependent on the game engine. They said they found some games that worked but had animations that ran at double frame rate as well and broke the game.
 

professor_t

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,332
EDIT:

I made a joke about a particular service but I don't want to inadvertently drag this topic down another pathway, so I'm removing It. To be more on topic, I'm actually most excited to try this with Sniper Elite 4. I know that game can be kind of janktastic, but I really enjoy it, especially in co-op.
 
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thebigword

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,326
So glad I decided to move multiplat titles back to the Xbox ecosystem last gen. Dark Souls 3, please.
 

The Lord of Cereal

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Jan 9, 2020
9,584
Why did they invest in PS4 BC then? What Ryan says and what he does are two different things.
Probably PR and the much lower cost of BC development for PS4 only. Ever since 2015, backwards compatibility was a huge talking point for the Xbox One, and people were clamoring for a similar program on PS4. It was incredibly obvious that the next Xbox would also have comprehensive BC, and Sony knew that if they didn't have PS4 support on the PS5 it would be a PR nightmare (likely not as much as $599 or Xbox One DRM, but still relatively big) and considering the PS4 Pro could run PS4 games and the PS5 is using AMD CPU/GPU like the PS4, it would be a lot easier to get full PS4 support on PS5 than developing emulators for their older systems and testing several games.
 

Babu93

Member
Feb 9, 2021
2,361
Will never understand dismissive attitudes towards backwards compatibility efforts. And I don't understand how arguments of whether it's financially profitable for the platform holder are in any way relevant to accessing my games and my experience as a consumer.

I'd never seen backwards compatibility discussed in any negative way until this generation. How curious.
 

t26

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,539
Sony and Nintendo don't find these endeavors to be profitable enough. So instead of cheering the good guy, I'm going to rationalize my favorite platform's lack of BC friendliness with business discussions.

Nintendo is seeing way more profit with releasing the same thing with a fresh coat of print, see Super Mario 3D All-Stars
 

crazillo

Member
Apr 5, 2018
8,167
Microsoft stays winning at BC. Wish Watch Dogs 2 got a Xbox One X Enhanced Patch alongside it though. Really excited to find out what games will be supported.
 

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
Amazing. I'm so happy I chose my main library to be on Xbox since 2017.

But I hope they won't forget to give some BC games res bumps too like with all the Enhanced patches last gen.
Only a fps bump with games still being 1080p or under won't cut it for me personally.
But still an awesome feature.
 

Egg0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,656
Booted up UFC 4, switched it to favor graphics and getting 60 fps across the board. The menus don't move like molasses anymore!
 

RdN

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,781
This is incredibly impressive. Microsoft's tech for back compat is simply on another level.
 

Hasidan

Member
Nov 16, 2017
52
I would rather have new games to play. These upgrades are fine but my Series X will collect dust until some nextgen titles are released. Right now the system is a pretty expensive emulator.
But maybe it's just me - the rest of the community seems really happy:)
 

Iron Eddie

Banned
Nov 25, 2019
9,812
Sony and Nintendo don't find these endeavors to be profitable enough. So instead of cheering the good guy, I'm going to rationalize my favorite platform's lack of BC friendliness with business discussions.
That's all it really is. You pay for Nintendo Online and guess what they give you? Old games for free. What games are on PS Now? Old games. So this spin that consumers don't care is rather odd.

Then there isn't enough demand for Sony to throw money at it. That's the whole thing.
But they do, as long as they get something in return.
 

J_ToSaveTheDay

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
18,775
USA
Watch Dogs 2 is a great game and this is an awesome update. I do sorta wish there had been time or ability to do a resolution boost as well, but that may have been beyond Microsoft's capabilities without Ubisoft helping out too.
 

DukeBlueBall

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,059
Seattle, WA
Watch Dogs 2 is a great game and this is an awesome update. I do sorta wish there had been time or ability to do a resolution boost as well, but that may have been beyond Microsoft's capabilities without Ubisoft helping out too.

Heutchy method does exactly that. There isn't enough horse power to quadruple the res though. I suspect DirectML res boost will fulfill that role in a few years.
 

hersheyfan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,744
Manila, Philippines
Incredible work by the Xbox BC team. Can't wait to give Lucky's Tale and UFC 4 a spin with these upgrades, and excited to see them expand this to more XB1 (and hopefully 360) games.