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Sota4077

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
742
As a fan of almost all things Microsoft it is so frustrating to go through a day like July 23rd and watch them make the same mistakes again and again from a marketing standpoint.

The first mistake is that they spent an hour pounding value value value (TV, TV, TV??) to gaming enthusiasts. The folks who are most likely to run out on launch day and pay full price for a console that will be $100 cheaper a year later. Those folks know about Game Pass and likely have it already. Microsoft didn't gain anything from enthusiasts (us) watching yesterday. Their marketing strategy is outdated with the creation of their service. The only way they get folks like us excited I hate to say it is from serious mic drop moments. Which leads me to the next error.

The second was a completely unforced error. They tried to create a mic drop moment with what might be the single worst kept secret in the gaming industry with Playground Games creating the new Fable. For me 'mic drops' are major surprises and major announcements. Not confirmations of badly kept secrets. Then when they did try to create a mic drop moment they did it with a CGI tease and a logo. That only works with a massive desire for something from the audience, but ZERO leaks or rumors that it exists. Had they done the show and ended with "Every single game 1st and 3rd party you saw today will be available on Game Pass day 1" that would have been better marketing for Game Pass than what they did now that I think about it.

Lastly, literally any amount of Gameplay--and that Fable announcement is received entirely different. Which is their third mistake they made yesterday and it was a repeat of one they've made before back in May. They have got to show gameplay if they want enthusiasts to give a shit about the games they are showing. They should know that by now, but for some reason they are content with showing CGI trailer after CGI trailer or using in engine sequences to show these games off. Halo stole the show because #1 it is Halo, but #2 because it had gameplay love it or hate it. No one currently seems to care about State of Decay 3, Forza Motorsports, Fable and Avowed beyond thinking "Those look cool" because lack of gameplay to most of us means the game is a long ways off.

All the worst aspects of the show yesterday were the result of them making the same mistakes they have made before. The first one probably being the most egregious since they "lost" the generation before it ever even started with TV, TV, TV. I still love Xbox and most of their games, but man they are frustrating when they consistently make the same mistakes over and over again.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Value, value, value is exactly the type of messaging I want.
 

bing

Banned
Apr 27, 2020
1,376
nowhere, canada
"Value, value, value" might not be appealing to anyone who is enthusiastic enough about gaming to have an Era account. However, for the average person that just wants to play NBA and COD for cheap, it wasn't a bad Gamepass ad. And that makes sense. They're not trying to sell the Series X, they're trying to sell the Gamepass.
 

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,328
Value, value, value is exactly the type of messaging I want.

As the OP explained, that means you're not the audience they should be targeting with this kind of marketing event. You get people who want value on board - with, you know, value. Not with big events. You get hype and enthusiasts with mic drops and spectacle. And OP said it nicely. It doesn't mean their strategy is wrong, but it does mean their marketing might be.
 

Trejo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,830
I agree in regards to the gameplay. I'm long past caring about how pretty your CGI trailer is. What's most important to me is seeing how the thing actually looks and plays.
 

TimPV3

Member
Oct 30, 2017
631
I felt the same way reading Era yesterday. I already have Game Pass Ultimate through 07/22, and wasn't surprised by Forza, Halo, or State of Decay like everyone else seemed to be. Going by the reactions, I felt like the only person here that had ever heard of or used Game Pass.
 

Megabreath

Member
Oct 25, 2018
2,663
Seems a fair thought out OP.

I get its all about services for MS, but where are all these millions of subscriptions going to come from? the 10 million they have is likely the Xbox enthusiasts, what was shown yesterday that is going to attract millions of others?
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,525
It is also what Microsoft's messaging is. For them it is not about the box anymore
Spending absurd amounts on arguably the most powerful console says otherwise. Of course they want it to sell, it's just not the main focus anymore. Problem is, they kind of failed to give a reason for running out day one to get the X...and that is a big problem.
 
OP
OP
Sota4077

Sota4077

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
742
As the OP explained, that means you're not the audience they should be targeting for these kind of events. You get people who want value - with value. You get hype and enthusiasts with mic drops. And OP said it nicely.

Yesterday was basically an event watched by enthusiasts for customers in 2022 is the way I would put it. People buying a console in 2022 are looking for a good deal. The folks watching yesterday were looking for an amazing game. They got Halo, ignoring the graphics, and it looks really damn fun and nostalgia is kicking in hard. But beyond that it didn't do much for me personally nor any of my friends I spoke to about it last night.
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
5,021
Also, number 4: Not having Banjo-Threeie!

I agree especially that the value talking point is not a very exciting one for an early adopters oriented presentation. You know, being an early adopter of a new console is almost always associated with not caring about value that much. Because you pay a premium price for the worst version of the system to ever be available, have to deal with hardware failures being much more likely and unknown in advance and have to deal with post-launch droughts.
 

Com_Raven

Brand Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,103
Europa
As the OP explained, that means you're not the audience they should be targeting with these kind of marketing events. You get people who want value on board - with, you know, value. Not with big events. You get hype and enthusiasts with mic drops and spectacle. And OP said it nicely.

I don't think those are mutually exclusive. Having a show with 22 games, and saying "everything you have seen is part of Game Pass" is in itself a mic drop, because no one has ever done it. Does it appeal to everyone? No, but then again, nothing ever does. Whatever your big mic drop moment is, it won't apply to everyone.
 

DontHateTheBacon

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,349
1) How is touting the value of the biggest value in gaming history a BAD thing to consumers?

2) You can't help leaks. These events are prerecorded. Confirming a leak for a huge title is fine. The lack of gameplay or... really anything in the trailer was really the issue.

3) Sure. This seems like a fair criticism.

Nothing they did was as bad as the Xbox One showing.
 
OP
OP
Sota4077

Sota4077

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
742
I agree in regards to the gameplay. I'm long past caring about how pretty your CGI trailer is. What's most important to me is seeing how the thing actually looks and plays.

Yeah. That Fable teaser should have been released in June with "Tune in July 23rd for more information" with SOME type of gameplay shown off yesterday. Even if it was 30 seconds or 60 seconds demonstrating the humor they are going for with the game.
 

Plinko

Member
Oct 28, 2017
18,572
Mistake #4:

No new Banjo game.

Seriously, though, Game Pass IS great value. That's their main selling point right now. Their first-party offerings currently pale in comparison to the other companies. Promoting that value the other companies do not offer is important for their business model.
 

Rndom Grenadez

Prophet of Truth
Member
Dec 7, 2017
5,637
I get where you're coming from OP, but MS could sell fewer boxes than they did this gen and wind up being more successful this gen.
 

ShinAmano

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,842
"Had they done the show and ended with "Every single game 1st and 3rd party you saw today will be available on Game Pass day 1" that would have been better marketing for Game Pass than what they did now that I think about it."

They did exactly that...did I miss your intended thought here?
 

EagleClaw

Member
Dec 31, 2018
10,691
I liked the opening, 10mins gameplay, that is a great start.
After 6 mins i thought, hmm..., 1 hour showcase, 10min gameplays for 6 of their biggest games... that is great, this show wins.
... but i was wrong.
 

Deleted member 8752

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,122
The first mistake is that they spent an hour pounding value value value (TV, TV, TV??) to gaming enthusiasts. The folks who are most likely to run out on launch day and pay full price for a console that will be $100 cheaper a year later. Those folks know about Game Pass and likely have it already. Microsoft didn't gain anything from enthusiasts (us) watching yesterday. Their marketing strategy is outdated with the creation of their service. The only way they get folks like us excited I hate to say it is from serious mic drop moments. Which leads me to the next error.
I mean... speak for yourself. I don't think Gamepass is the same as the TV messaging last gen. This was a tremendous selling point for me. I'm someone who skipped Xbox One - despite owning and loving Xbox and Xbox 360, and this service is what may pull me back into the ecosystem.
 

Com_Raven

Brand Manager
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,103
Europa
"Had they done the show and ended with "Every single game 1st and 3rd party you saw today will be available on Game Pass day 1" that would have been better marketing for Game Pass than what they did now that I think about it."

They did exactly that...did I miss your intended thought here?

I was gonna say...that is exactly what Matt said.
 
OP
OP
Sota4077

Sota4077

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
742
"Had they done the show and ended with "Every single game 1st and 3rd party you saw today will be available on Game Pass day 1" that would have been better marketing for Game Pass than what they did now that I think about it."

They did exactly that...did I miss your intended thought here?

I meant without mentioning any of those games being on game pass prior to that moment. They mentioned games being on game pass throughout the entire show.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,773
The lack of gameplay was jarring, but the lack of gameplay that actually showed why a new system was needed was even more surprising. I'm more interested in getting the Xbox, but I'll give the PS5 presentation points for showing games and features that did not seem possible on the PS4.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,531
"Value, value, value" might not be appealing to anyone who is enthusiastic enough about gaming to have an Era account. However, for the average person that just wants to play NBA and COD for cheap, it wasn't a bad Gamepass ad. And that makes sense. They're not trying to sell the Series X, they're trying to sell the Gamepass.

So to be clear... they're advertising to people who only care about NBA 2K and Call of Duty... by offering them an expensive subscription service which has a wide variety of games... not including Call of Duty and NBA 2K?
 

Lyrick

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,818
Spending absurd amounts on arguably the most powerful console says otherwise. Of course they want it to sell, it's just not the main focus anymore. Problem is, they kind of failed to give a reason for running out day one to get the X...and that is a big problem.
Yesterdays showcase showed that you don't need to run out and buy a new plastic box to get the upcoming software. That is not a problem, that's a solution to having to buy another gaudy living room set top box.
 

OnionPowder

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,323
Orlando, FL
You are viewing this from a nerds perspective on a message board

From people who don't follow insiders on twitter or read info incessantly, Fable was a big reveal.
 

Deleted member 8752

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,122
As the OP explained, that means you're not the audience they should be targeting with this kind of marketing event. You get people who want value on board - with, you know, value. Not with big events. You get hype and enthusiasts with mic drops and spectacle. And OP said it nicely. It doesn't mean their strategy is wrong, but it does mean their marketing might be.
Most people want both though. Pricing and value will always be a huge factor.

I have 20 consoles hooked up and ready to play and have watched a lot of these presentations over the years. I would've loved some bigger and more bombastic games yesterday, sure, but the subscription service still matters a lot even to people that are deeply invested in the hobby.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,932
I agree that the value proposition doesn't make sense as the focus at this point in the game when you can't even buy the machine.
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
Yeah cgi trailers don't do it for me. I'm reminded time and time again I'm glad that Microsoft has a mission to put everything they do on pc because as a console id be limited beyond hell to what I can play in their system as quickly as possible vs playing tons of other games on pc and on the chance one of their titles release I can play it then.
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,525
Yesterdays showcase showed that you don't need to run out and buy a new plastic box to get the upcoming software. That is not a problem, that's a solution to having to buy another gaudy living room set top box.
Then what are they making the box for? The box they displayed prominently several times, with games mostly coming to only it and PC.
 

ShinAmano

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,842
I meant without mentioning any of those games being on game pass prior to that moment. They mentioned games being on game pass throughout the entire show.
Oh gotcha...timing it differently. Yeah I can agree it might have had more punch at the end, but not sure it would have been a major difference. I left yesterday thinking about the games I am excited about and knowing I can try those I am curious about without dropping any extra loot.
 

Dance Inferno

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,999
As the OP explained, that means you're not the audience they should be targeting with this kind of marketing event. You get people who want value on board - with, you know, value. Not with big events. You get hype and enthusiasts with mic drops and spectacle. And OP said it nicely. It doesn't mean their strategy is wrong, but it does mean their marketing might be.
So this user who is value-oriented is not the audience of an event that was advertising value? What?
 

xpownz

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Feb 13, 2020
2,164
Well, putting fable reveal side by side to botw2 reveal, it wasnt really that much of a splash. But not every franchise has to be incredibly hype, right? Fable is good enough
 

speedomodel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,167
I mean, I think they were pushing value value value because they want people to sign up for Game Pass without having to buy a console. They make money on you without having to lose money getting a Series X in your home.
 

Deleted member 51848

Jan 10, 2019
1,408
It is also what Microsoft's messaging is. For them it is not about the box anymore

Then why make one and market it as the most powerful console ever made? Why expect anyone to buy one? If a gamespass subscription is what they want, just sell that and never debut a new console. This is reductionist thinking. For the next few gens it will always be about hardware, software and services.
 
Oct 30, 2017
8,706
It is also what Microsoft's messaging is. For them it is not about the box anymore
I'm not sure everyone agrees with that.

A lot of people are insisting that Microsoft is willing to take massive losses to sell their premium box. And many are insisting that Microsoft will deliberately undercut Sony.
You don't pump tons of money into designing a game system and then subsidize the price if the box isn't important.
 

bing

Banned
Apr 27, 2020
1,376
nowhere, canada
So to be clear... they're advertising to people who only care about NBA 2K and Call of Duty... by offering them an expensive subscription service which has a wide variety of games... not including Call of Duty and NBA 2K?
It does offer NBA 2k, for the record. Anyway, I think it'll start to make more sense once they introduce Lockhart.
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,525
I'm really curious what engagement and feedback has been outside of sites like this. If it did well overall with the general public who've watched it.
 

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,213
Yesterdays showcase showed that you don't need to run out and buy a new plastic box to get the upcoming software. That is not a problem, that's a solution to having to buy another gaudy living room set top box.
I was ready and waiting to put my $4-500 down on a XSX yesterday morning at 8:59am, but by 10am I have no incentive to do so. That is what makes it a bad showing. MS has done literally nothing to sell me on why I should give them money for a 12tf box. Either your marketing message is "we have the most powerful console in the world and here are games that show what it can do" or your marketing message is "we provide value by not making you upgrade like our competitors". MS is trying to deliver both messages at the same time and it is causing them to crash and burn badly.
 

Timlot

Banned
Nov 27, 2019
359
Wow, so we going to make value a negative now. Lol. It was a games showcase. Every game will be in game pass. You Don't Need to buy Xbox hardware to play Xbox games. The war is over folks.
 

Gartooth

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,440
I got the sense that they weren't prepared development-wise as far as a first party spectacle goes. It's a tough balancing act because we want gameplay and want huge hype for a next generation system. It's also a bad look though if the games aren't either in a great state, or aren't representative of what will be the final product.

I guess I'd prefer CGI trailers over being told nothing on these projects just so I can get a better idea of where the system will be heading, even if much of the games won't be out for another 2 to 3 years.

I think they should've leaned on next generation 3rd party games more, even if those games wouldn't have launched on Gamepass.
 
OP
OP
Sota4077

Sota4077

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
742
You are viewing this from a nerds perspective on a message board

From people who don't follow insiders on twitter or read info incessantly, Fable was a big reveal.
It is also what Microsoft's messaging is. For them it is not about the box anymore

I would say it is still very much about the box. They want to bring as many people into the tent as possible. The PC market, I would argue, is probably easier for them since the barrier to entry is a PC capable of play
I'm not sure everyone agrees with that.

A lot of people are insisting that Microsoft is willing to take massive losses to sell their premium box. And many are insisting that Microsoft will deliberately undercut Sony.
You don't pump tons of money into designing a game system and then subsidize the price if the box isn't important.

I still think Microsoft plan to price their console the same as the PS5 Digital. I've said it since the PS5 reveal. If Microsoft do not have a diskless console the same way PS5 does that is this strongest play. To eat that cost and make people choose the 'Less powerful" console for without a disk for the same price as more powerful console with a disk. MIcrosoft lost $125/console on the 360 at launch so there is precedent there. But we will see.
 
OP
OP
Sota4077

Sota4077

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
742
Wow, so we going to make value a negative now. Lol. It was a games showcase. Every game will be in game pass. You Don't Need to buy Xbox hardware to play Xbox games. The war is over folks.

NOT what I said. I said marketing value to enthusiasts is ineffective--and it is. The folks watching yesterday either know what it is or already have it most likely.
 

Grudy

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,644
I think you're right for the most part, OP. People like to accuse this forum of being playstation centric to dismiss arguments or as criticism, but at the same time, people keep explaining why MS is not succeeding at these events to garner excitement from the enthusiast crowd and MS just keeps repeating the same mistakes. There's no reason why they can't keep up their emphasis and value-centric focus on gamepass but at the same time blow us away with some gameplay and mic-drop announcements as you put it. The two are not mutually exclusive.
 

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,328
I don't think those are mutually exclusive. Having a show with 22 games, and saying "everything you have seen is part of Game Pass" is in itself a mic drop, because no one has ever done it. Does it appeal to everyone? No, but then again, nothing ever does. Whatever your big mic drop moment is, it won't apply to everyone.

While I'm sure Microsoft knows their audience better than me, I can speak from the angle of someone who loves keynotes, announcements and similar marketing events. "Value" is one of the most important things for regular people, but it's not important for the evangelist crowd and this is why it's rarely a focus of such manifestations. When Apple announced that Mac OS updates will become free, the crowd cheered - but they did it AFTER they presented the shiny new things and got the enthusiasts on board.

With that said, it's unfair to say Microsoft didn't show anyhthing other than Game Pass. I liked a lot of the games there, I liked Halo (even visually) and I am really interested in Medium and Everwild. However, it is Micorosoft who insisted on having the more powerful graphical hardware compared to Sony - so they set these expectations. I guess a lot of people wanted to see that. Ergo, disappointment.

Why are people saying Sony's marketing was better? For exactly that reason: Sony was all about insane SSD speeds, then they've shown spectacular cases where this is used - in the flyby scene of the Unreal 5 demo and in that insane Ratchet & Clank Rift Apart demo. For all their teraflop talk, Microsoft showed us that, yup, a lot of studios are making games, and they may end up being quite good.

I don't want to be negative about it but let me put it this way: if I saw this event and someone told me it was an Xbox One X event, I would believe them. If someone told me that Sony event was presenting PS4 games - I would've said "no way".
 

VanWinkle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,094
Value being compared to TV is kind of asinine. It's directly gaming related and benefits consumers. And it separates them from the competition.

The only thing I agree with, and I'm sure everyone can agree with, was that there wasn't nearly enough gameplay shown. That was really disappointing.
 

bastardly

Member
Nov 8, 2017
10,581
Biggest error was opening with a super high quality cgi trailer of halo, and having people think for a second it was real time, then those dreams got crushed and went in the opposite direction with the gameplay reveal. That was the moment I was like, man this Is it for next gen I guess.
 
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