Xbox isn't so focused on games-as-a-service titles anymore, marketing boss Greenberg says

Evolution of Metal · Nov 20, 2019

MilesQ said:
I mean,

MS were clear with the language.

Then it is one less reason to trust MS's own PR. Using downloads and active players as synonyms.
And if you are wondering why am I so sure, it is because the game was never high in the chart last year. The astronomical numbers don't add up, you don't go from 4m active players to 5m total players in 10 months.

headspawn said:
At the end of the day, if the games are still supported, I can pick it up on any day have new content and people still playing it... isn't that what matters?

It is, and it is great that most games aren't axed. However, isn't more always better? More players, more heroes, more maps, more skins etc.?

You can no longer play HW2 the way you could one year ago. Super small community, veteran players only, no more updates. The bigger they get, the longer it will take for the game to die.

DeoGame · Nov 20, 2019

I have nothing against GAAS if the base game is done well and the updates persist. Just look at Forza Horizon 4. That's a service based game and it's phenomenal.

Still, I think games should pick the format that's best for them and I think that a SP game is better not GAAS.

OG_Thrills · Nov 20, 2019

hubertuss03 said:
Its not great examples because these games were making before acquisition.

PR bullshit.

IIFloodyII said:
Gears 5's make that hard to believe. Especially with the way they were going on about how it's monetization is setting a new trend.

spam musubi · Nov 20, 2019

It's like Greenberg is incapable of stating a straight truth and has to dig himself a hole every time he says something.

Deleted member 23046 · Nov 20, 2019

leburn98 · Nov 20, 2019

Where are people getting this "Xbox is abandoning GaaS" from? The article in the OP states that Xbox isn't going to focus on games-as-a-service but rather let the developers determine what makes the most sense for their game. If Obsidian wants to make a singleplayer RPG, great. If Rare wants to make a new GaaS title, great. As for those bringing up Gears 5, Halo Infinite, and Forza Horizon 4 as some sort of gotcha, what's your point? Again, Greenberg never said they wouldn't make GaaS titles, just that they are no longer a key focus.

BAD · Nov 20, 2019

leburn98 said:
Where are people getting this "Xbox is abandoning GaaS" from? The article in the OP states that Xbox isn't going to focus on games-as-a-service but rather let the developers determine what makes the most sense for their game. If Obsidian wants to make a singleplayer RPG, great. If Rare wants to make a new GaaS title, great. As for those bringing up Gears 5, Halo Infinite, and Forza Horizon 4 as some sort of gotcha, what's your point? Again, Greenberg never said they wouldn't make GaaS titles, just that they are no longer a key focus.

People can't read and think Xbox acquired new studios to make GaaS titles

Oticon · Nov 20, 2019

To be honest, I feel like Game Pass and other subscription models are incompatible with big budget single player games like Jedi Fallen Order, God of War, or Spider-Man. I just bought Origin Access Premier and beat Jedi Fallen Order in a week and canceled my sub right after so in the past where I would have paid $45-$60 for the game I just paid $14.99 and got basically the same experience I wanted.

Deleted member 5028 · Nov 20, 2019

Jarod McChicken said:
Neither is Wasteland 3, it's published by Deep Silver.

But their studios worked on them and the point he's making is that won't change with a pivot for those teams to GaaS

Deleted member 46948 · Nov 20, 2019

Oticon said:
To be honest, I feel like Game Pass and other subscription models are incompatible with big budget single player games like Jedi Fallen Order, God of War, or Spider-Man. I just bought Origin Access Premier and beat Jedi Fallen Order in a week and canceled my sub right after so in the past where I would have paid $45-$60 for the game I just paid $14.99 and got basically the same experience I wanted.

The trick is in the fact that most people won't do what you did.
It's like saying "60 USD games are unsustainable because I always buy them used for cheap or a year later in sale".

JaggedSac · Nov 20, 2019

In reality, one and done games make more sense for Gamepass than a long tail service game. Why keep paying for gamepass when you could just buy the game once that you are going to play forever? Moving players to a constant supply of new games is what would make gamepass successful. Keeping a playerbase attached to just a few games isn't. The impetus for MS isn't a steady stream of mtx money, it is a huge base of recurring revenue from Gamepass itself.

Deleted member 4413 · Nov 20, 2019

Lmao so wait, are people actually saying that any post release content makes a game a GaaS?

Guess that makes games like Morrowind and The Last of Us GaaS games then. Who knew they had so much in common with games like Destiny and The Division.

Moving goalposts, etc etc.

Deleted member 6235 · Nov 20, 2019

Jarod McChicken said:
Neither is Wasteland 3, it's published by Deep Silver.

Brian Fargo constantly likes to make it clear that they could only delay it, add VO to every character and polish it way more thanks to the MS acquisition, though

Franco_Tech said:
Ori is a small game.

does that matter when it will end up being one of the best and most polished releases of 2020 though?

so tired of this 'but this is not an AAA!!!!' shit.

Evolution of Metal said:
You look at some recent MS games:
• Gears 5
• Sea of Thieves
• State of Decay 2

All unsuccessful as far as player popularity goes.

what?

man this forum really likes to create some false narrative on their heads huh, jesus christ

BioDigital Jazzman · Nov 20, 2019

Oticon said:
To be honest, I feel like Game Pass and other subscription models are incompatible with big budget single player games like Jedi Fallen Order, God of War, or Spider-Man. I just bought Origin Access Premier and beat Jedi Fallen Order in a week and canceled my sub right after so in the past where I would have paid $45-$60 for the game I just paid $14.99 and got basically the same experience I wanted.

I would argue that most people don't do that/ the service is built so that you get attracted to other things and stay subscribed. Like I'm sure there are people that just subscribe to Netflix to wat h stranger things and then unsubscribe. But I'd wager more people stay subscribed and wait for the next months additions to watch and so on. Origin isn't the best at this because they aren't adding new games month in and out. So yeah you just subscribe for the new game and then leave. But gamepass is constantly throwing games in your face every month that a non enthusiast who doesn't buy everything will probably stay subbed. Like in a few months timeframe they put WWZ, DMCV, Gears 5, Outer Wilds, prey 2 etc as well as a slew of indies. The service is meant to be enticing by giving tons of options

so like a Netflix they hook you in with Stranger things(or gears 5) but then they keep you locked in with outer worlds( or 13 reasons why l) etc

DestroyerOfWorlds · Nov 20, 2019

People seem to have different ideas of what it takes for a game to be considered GaaS.

OG_Thrills · Nov 20, 2019

Claven said:
The trick is in the fact that most people won't do what you did.

I'm really interested to see how this strategy plays out next generation.

Deleted member 46948 · Nov 20, 2019

OG_Thrills said:
I'm really interested to see how this strategy plays out next generation.

Me too. It will be interesting to see, and honestly I don't mind if the sub model fails and we all go back to purchasing shit, but at the same time, I really enjoy Gamepass. I think they can pull it off, honestly - I mean music and movie industry did make the leap, so why not gaming?

OG_Thrills · Nov 20, 2019

Claven said:
Me too. It will be interesting to see, and honestly I don't mind if the sub model fails and we all go back to purchasing shit, but at the same time, I really enjoy Gamepass. I think they can pull it off, honestly - I mean music and movie industry did make the leap, so why not gaming?

I think 3 months into next generation is going to be a shock to the collective gaming system.

the32BitPlayers · Nov 20, 2019

PixelatedDonut said:
Lol I would never believe Greenberg.

Same.

Stalwart · Nov 20, 2019

IIFloodyII said:
Gears 5's make that hard to believe. Especially with the way they were going on about how it's monetization is setting a new trend.

How is Gears 5 a service style game?

X-Peaceman-X · Nov 20, 2019

Wow some people are just so focused on disliking Xbox and can take anything they say in bad light.
To me it was clear, he said that going forward they are letting their devs do what they want. If that's GaaS then cool if not that's cool to. And he just claimed the TOW was a good example of a game that does that, although that part I can see being taken more as him saying it's a xgs game I'm pretty sure he is well away we know it isn't and was just saying it's a good general example of that.

Klaphat · Nov 20, 2019

zoltek said:
Can't take credit for Outer Worlds. Also, this looks to be more true based on recent announcements, but until we see actual games released, it's still just words in the ether from these guys.

Of course they can. They own Obsidian and the IP. If Microsoft wanted it to be a GaaS game they would make it so and there would be nothing anyone could do about it. There is obviously no reason for them to do it, but they 100% could do whatever they wanted with the game.

IIFloodyII · Nov 20, 2019

Stalwart said:
How is Gears 5 a service style game?

How isn't it? Boatload of cosmetics, booster packs and they even have time limited events.

Klaphat · Nov 20, 2019

SuikerBrood said:
Let's see.

Announced games:
- Halo Infinite (GaaS)
- Tell Me Why (Episodic, but not GaaS)
- Minecraft Dungeons (GaaS)
- Gears Tactics (unknown)
- Ori and the Will of the Wisps (non-GaaS)
- Grounded (GaaS)
- EverWild (unknown)
- Battletoads (non-GaaS)
- Wasteland 3 (non-GaaS)
- Age of Empires 3:DE (non-GaaS)
- Age of Empires 4 (no mtx, but expansions. So.. semi-GaaS?)
- Psychonauts 2 (non-GaaS)
- Microsoft Flight Simulator (GaaS)

How are expansions suddenly semi-GaaS? That's literally how developers handled post launch content before GaaS even existed. That's how it worked before the internet was a thing. Expansions have nothing to do with GaaS.

Stalwart · Nov 20, 2019

IIFloodyII said:
How isn't it? Boatload of cosmetics, booster packs and they even have time limited events.

It has a campaign, service style games are online only.

IIFloodyII · Nov 20, 2019

Klaphat said:
How the fuck are expansions suddenly semi-GaaS? That's literally how developers handled post launch content before GaaS even existed. That's how it worked before the internet was a thing. Expansions have nothing to do with GaaS.

The industries definition is actually that meaningless to be fair. I remember there was a NPD thread, where the NPD guy who used to post here/on Gaf gave the definition of what makes something a GaaS and almost everything could be considered one by it. Pretty much just a update that adds free content is GaaS according to it, DLC/Expansions too.

Deleted member 6235 · Nov 20, 2019

Stalwart said:
It has a campaign, service style games are online only.

No they are not

Stalwart · Nov 20, 2019

Granjinha said:
No they are not

To me they are.

Betty · Nov 20, 2019

Gears 5 is absolutely a service game.

Papacheeks · Nov 20, 2019

Stalwart said:
To me they are.

Games with expansions are even considered to a degree GAAS, like Starcraft and the likes.

IIFloodyII · Nov 20, 2019

Stalwart said:
It has a campaign, service style games are online only.

No they aren't, AC Odyssey is a great example of a GaaS game without any online modes what so ever. Gears 5 is a GaaS game.

Klaphat · Nov 20, 2019

IIFloodyII said:
The industries definition is actually that meaningless to be fair. I remember there was a NPD thread, where the NPD guy who used to post here/on Gaf gave the definition of what makes something a GaaS and almost everything could be considered one by it. Pretty much just a update that adds free content is GaaS according to it, DLC/Expansions too.

🙄

manchego obfuscator · Nov 20, 2019

this is interesting. I thought that Microsoft's commitment to putting all XGS games on XGP day one was only viable in the first place because so much of their first-party lineup was GAAS, but if the business side is working out for them, god bless 'em

riotous · Nov 20, 2019

I play GAAS games like they have a beginning, middle, end and maybe some "end game."

I don't know why people are so caught up in GAAS hate; most of those games have plenty of content if you treat them as regular games and you don't have to spend an extra penny.

Deleted member 18951 · Nov 20, 2019

manchego obfuscator said:
this is interesting. I thought that Microsoft's commitment to putting all XGS games on XGP day one was only viable in the first place because so much of their first-party lineup was GAAS, but if the business side is working out for them, god bless 'em

This is the worst narrative that this board has spun, that Game Pass is mainly GaaS titles. It's like saying Netflix is only as big as it is cause all they have is mainly rom-coms. The success of any subscription service will be dependent on the variety available, you want to appeal to as much of the market as possible and you wont do that if it's just full of GaaS titles.

Deleted member 43 · Nov 20, 2019

Yeah, they have switched from a "we need to monetize the users we have as much as possible" strategy to a "we need to grow subscriptions as much as possible" one.

Which certainly works out much better for the players.

Prine · Nov 20, 2019

IIFloodyII said:
How isn't it? Boatload of cosmetics, booster packs and they even have time limited events.

Thats all opt in, you can get full Gears 5 experience without ever entering that mode. It's as much GaaS Uncharted 4 is.

Klaphat · Nov 20, 2019

Papacheeks said:
Games with expansions are even considered to a degree GAAS, like Starcraft and the likes.

Then why don't we have a thread about how every Sony game is a GaaS? Because we all know the general consensus of what a GaaS is.

Only in a Microsoft thread will people argue that every game with post launch content is a GaaS. It's amazing how obtuse people can be.

manchego obfuscator · Nov 20, 2019

Bits N Pieces said:
This is the worst narrative that this board has spun, that Game Pass is mainly GaaS titles. It's like saying Netflix is only as big as it is cause all they have is mainly rom-coms. The success of any subscription service will be dependent on the variety available, you want to appeal to as much of the market as possible and you wont do that if it's just full of GaaS titles.

I subscribe to Game Pass, chill out

IIFloodyII · Nov 20, 2019

Prine said:
Thats all opt in, you can get full Gears 5 experience without ever entering that mode. It's as much GaaS Uncharted 4 is.

It's always opt-in, you can experience all of Fortnite BR without spending a penny on the game, that doesn't mean it's not a GaaS game. Gears 5 is still a service game. Uncharted 4 is too.

gremlinz1982 · Nov 20, 2019

Evolution of Metal said:
Then it is one less reason to trust MS's own PR. Using downloads and active players as synonyms.
And if you are wondering why am I so sure, it is because the game was never high in the chart last year. The astronomical numbers don't add up, you don't go from 4m active players to 5m total players in 10 months.

It is, and it is great that most games aren't axed. However, isn't more always better? More players, more heroes, more maps, more skins etc.?

You can no longer play HW2 the way you could one year ago. Super small community, veteran players only, no more updates. The bigger they get, the longer it will take for the game to die.

And the team doesn't plan to move on from State of Decay 2 yet; a sequel won't come and establish a new baseline for players. "We're in a really great position where we've gotten to keep adding players to the game," Richards said. "We're [at] 5 million players, and we're looking to grow."

We really need people like you giving numbers that dissuade what is stated. If both the publisher and developer have quoted these numbers, who are you to doubt?

Prine · Nov 20, 2019

IIFloodyII said:
It's always opt-in, you can experience all of Fortnite BR without spending a penny on the game, that doesn't mean it's not a GaaS game. Gears 5 is still a service game. Uncharted 4 is too.

You can't play Fortnite offline can you? It only exists online, not the same as Gears 5, Uncharted 4 and AC Odyssey etc.

Proven · Nov 20, 2019

Gamer17 said:
Yes it's Ms Ip but decisions for it not be GAAS was made long ago before MS involvement. Let's see how will the next one from them end up being . Will MS allow them to make a single player game with no tacked on multiplayer and no MTX?

Do you think Microsoft forces every one of their developers to put multiplayer in their games?

IIFloodyII · Nov 20, 2019

Prine said:
You can't play Fortnite offline can you? It only exists online, not the same as Gears 5, Uncharted 4 and AC Odyssey etc.

That doesn't mean they aren't service games still, you personally ignoring a part of something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Hybrid Rainbow · Nov 20, 2019

Bits N Pieces said:
Umm, no I didn't. I said this:

Just another case of selective reading on Era where one group are desperate to paint a false narrative. Carry on.

I keep seeing this "most diverse" statement from you, and from what I've seen announced so far, I'm not convinced.

KORNdog · Nov 20, 2019

Based on what they've announced I don't believe them. they seem just as focused on it as they ever have been, sure there are a handful of exceptions, but crackdown 3/recore and quantum break etc were exceptions too. GaaS isn't necessarily a bad thing though, but they need to round them out with a good library of non GaaS games too, and so far that's still very much up in the air and likely will be until mid way through next gen when their acquired studio's start outputting content that wasn't already in development. Gears 5 was a step In the right direction (besides the MTX's) but let's not pretend they're sprinting yet.

Evolution of Metal · Nov 20, 2019

gremlinz1982 said:
And the team doesn't plan to move on from State of Decay 2 yet; a sequel won't come and establish a new baseline for players. "We're in a really great position where we've gotten to keep adding players to the game," Richards said. "We're [at] 5 million players, and we're looking to grow."

We really need people like you giving numbers that dissuade what is stated. If both the publisher and developer have quoted these numbers, who are you to doubt?

Yes you do, because active players isn't the same as total players. You allow MS to use active and total players interchangeably and it messes with your perception of the community.

Unless you want to insist that the game that isn't even Xbox top 50 in popularity somehow has 5 million active players?

Deleted member 18951 · Nov 20, 2019

Hybrid Rainbow said:
I keep seeing this "most diverse" statement from you, and from what I've seen announced so far, I'm not convinced.

Single Player
Multiplayer
Co-Op
First Person Shooter
Third Person Shooter
Open World (with multiple different sub genres)
Circuit Racer
Open World Racer
RPG
cRPG
2D Platformer
3D Platformer
RTS
Simulation (Flight)
Survival
Action Adventure
Narrative Storytelling
Minecraft lol

Obviously the games need to come out and they need to be good but as far as an upcoming slate of titles I do think they have the most variety of any publisher. Do you not think that is pretty diverse?

Kupo Kupopo · Nov 20, 2019

'would i lie to you?'...

EnvyMKII · Nov 20, 2019

Where does the line get drawn on what is considered a game as a service and what is not? Is any game with a DLC added post launch considered a GAAS? Is a game continuously getting post launch support like patches and balance changes a GAAS? Is it simply the introduction of some sort of MTX store?

Xbox isn't so focused on games-as-a-service titles anymore, marketing boss Greenberg says

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