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Assuming same price and season of launch, what will matter most?

  • Either may win - first to market will have the biggest advantage

    Votes: 34 2.3%
  • Either may win - most powerful system will have the biggest advantage

    Votes: 40 2.8%
  • Either may win - the best exclusives library will yield the biggest advantage

    Votes: 256 17.6%
  • PlayStation will carry over its success and be at an advantage

    Votes: 1,012 69.7%
  • Xbox will carry over its evolving growth and be at an advantage

    Votes: 81 5.6%
  • Other - write thoughts below

    Votes: 28 1.9%

  • Total voters
    1,451

BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,565
USA
Now that both have confirmed systems coming next gen, and rumblings of similar power are afoot thanks to hardware info teases, what do the current states of these brands yield if they launch as rumored in late 2020, potentially now at the same price (since Lockhart is dead and Xbox has shifted focus to Scarlett as the sole mainstream offering)?

Let's look back a bit:

  • 2000: PlayStation 2 launches for $299
  • 2001: The original Xbox launches for $299

Outcome: Xbox makes a splash with its first console at almost a quarter million sold in about 5 years of life, while PS2 elevates its brand with massive sales of 155 million in about 12 years tracking its life.

  • 2005: Xbox 360 launches for $399 with 20GB hard drive, $299 Core model without extra storage
  • 2006: PlayStation 3 launches for $599 at 60GB, $499 for 20GB

Outcome: Despite sales disparity from the prior gen and despite Xbox 360 hardware issues in the original form factor, Xbox 360 took off particularly in the Americas jumping sales to 84 million in its lifetime worldwide. PlayStation 3 struggled over prices early on but later caught up to 360, eventually reaching about 87 million in reported lifetime sales, failing to dominate like PS2 but holding its own against Xbox's aggressive competition.

  • 2013: BOTH PlayStation 4 and Xbox One are launched, at $399 and $499 respectively. With a catch: Xbox One is seen as botching its pitch by focusing on media apps, and changes much of its software restrictions that were putting digital ownership in focus.

Outcome: Xbox 360's powerhouse wins in the USA weren't matched by Xbox One, with sales only able to be estimated due to Microsoft no longer reporting unit sales in favor of engagement. Latest analysis suggested Xbox One has passed 41 million units sold, while PlayStation 4 has reported about 92 million sold.

This outcome is more complex, because we saw Xbox One start quite lower than original expectations for them. This, however, has let them glow as the 'most-improved' gaming ecosystem of this era. They spear-headed wide backwards compatibility of games players already own (and promise it will all work on next gen), added services like EA Access and Game Pass as options for players, have played nice with devs in cross-platform play and Nintendo on Switch, accessories added like the Xbox Accessibility Controller and Elite Controller, allowed new GamerTag features like Discord-style tags for more name availability on top of existing name changes, denounced bullying and bigotry on Xbox Live, a generous digital refund system, and adding Xbox One X - the most powerful console. So things definitely went a long way since 2013.​

But we can't ignore PlayStation 4. It's dominant, for good reason. It started with a gaming focus and a lower price, has critical darling exclusives galore, offers the wonderful PSVR, plans on future backwards compatibility on top of great Remote Play streaming apps, and was for a long time a more powerful offering until Xbox One X came along. They don't look as friendly as they did next to the digital internet-check-in early gen Xbox anymore due to noted clashes with devs on cross-platform communication, poor response to refund requests (the policy has just changed for the better), no backwards compatibility for games you already bought last gen, no first party accessibility accessory, a poor and late approach on username changing, and refusal of services like EA Access in the past. But you can't deny they have improved in 2019, perhaps thanks to Xbox in part, and are poised to compete again next gen.​

Next gen, 2020:

We got our first look beyond rumors when Mark Cerny of Sony's team gave an exclusive interview to Wired:
www.resetera.com

Official PlayStation Next-Gen plans (2020, Wired Exclusive Article) [ Ray Tracing, BC, SSD, & more]

Mark Cerny is once again the Lead System Architect. 8 core AMD 7nm Zen 2 based on third generation Ryzen. Ray-tracing support with custom AMD Navi GPU. Custom AMD unit for 3D Audio, also aided by ray-tracing, a big upgrade. Hot on the heels of Sony having acquired near-industry-standard...
  • Mark Cerny is once again the Lead System Architect.
  • 8 core AMD 7nm Zen 2 based on third generation Ryzen.
  • Ray-tracing support with custom AMD Navi GPU.
  • Custom AMD unit for 3D Audio, also aided by ray-tracing, a big upgrade. Hot on the heels of Sony having acquired near-industry-standard AudioKinetic.
  • Extremely fast high-end custom SSD storage faster than any solution currently available for PC:
    Spider-Man load times on PS4 Pro: 15 seconds → 0.8 seconds on next-gen PlayStation. That's ~19x faster!
    Huge practical game changer opening up for new design opportunities.
  • Technically supports 8K but Cerny demoed Spider-Man load speed improvements on a 4K screen (I would only take this as confirmation of HDMI 2.1).
  • New Virtual Reality platform strongly hinted at but also supports current PSVR (meaning millions of VR users 'day one').
  • Death Stranding might be a cross-gen title (speculation in article based on Cerny reply).
  • Physical Media.
  • Backwards Compatible with at least PS4 (relevant for 90+ million users).
  • Devkit is with developers and they recently accelerated its deployment.
  • Four years in development so far.
  • 2020.

Then we got the announcement of one new Xbox for 2020, rather than long rumored two models, as Project Scarlett at E3 2019:


Tech Specs
  • Custom Zen2 AMD Processor
  • 4x more powerful than Xbox One X
  • High Bandwidth GDDR6
  • Capable of 120 Frames Per Second
  • 8k Capable
  • Ray Tracing
  • Variable Refresh Rate
  • SSD that allows usage as virtual memory


For the first time, we expect very closely powered consoles in possibly the same year and price point.

For me:
I am a graphics fanatic in console space. I had PS4 and Xbox One originals, then got PS4 Pro at launch to replace PS4, then got Xbox One X to replace base XB1. My current strategy is to buy every Multiplatform game on X since they are better there, like Red Dead 2 and future titles like Cyberpunk 2077, while using Game Pass to catch some other titles and exclusives. Now my PS4 Pro is strictly for exclusives, which I consider can't-miss on PS4 - the library is stellar. But what happens next gen?

I want the more powerful console first - and it now seems we don't know which will edge the other out. If it's Scarlett, my strategy stands and I continue on to next gen starting with Xbox but adding PS5 and I'm good. But if Xbox is weaker, that's tricky. I don't consider it to have many must-play exclusives, and if I'm not using it for multi-platform... well it's tougher to enjoy. Regardless, I will own both systems eventually. It's a matter of which comes first and becomes primary for Multiplatform that I worry about.

TLDR:
So the question is, what will the evolutions of these brands over this gen mean to the mainstream if the systems launch at the same price and season? Will a power disadvantage a la KINECT/resolution-gate matter ever again (it seemed to be big on forums when the gen launched, and not so big when Xbox One X and PS4 Pro started competing and the more popular ecosystem was losing the face-offs)? Is it about the games they show for launch? Are you just happier with one ecosystem and will go to it next gen? Is it about which comes first? Will you buy both?
 

jaekeem

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,743
I don't own a console, but as a pc gamer I would never buy an Xbox over a ps5 or whatever

Sony exclusives are way better imo
 

Riderz1337

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
It's a video game console. I buy them to play video games. Sony has the better exclusives, therefore my choice is an easy one.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
I'm confused about the 'bolder' part of the ecosystem, are you referring to backwards compatibility and Gamepass? If indeed that's the case, BC is going to be on both systems next gen and PS Now is already a competitor of Gamepass despite this forum's dismissal of it. Other than that I'm not sure I see much difference between the two 'ecosystems'.
 

Possum Armada

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,630
Greenville, SC
I don't care about who "wins" a generation, but Gamepass has spoiled me on the traditional game ownership model. I will go xbox unless Sony creates a similar service.
 

retrosega

Member
Jun 14, 2019
1,283
Next Gen is going to be a tough choice for me as to which I buy first. (I'll get both at some point)
It'll probably be PS5, but this time it's not a certainty until more concrete info is known.
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,708
Malaysia
Either may win - A combination of all the factors above. Aka who - at different windows of the product's life, will deliver the most anticipated system-sellers, who can capitalize on major trends the best, the best overall offering of products at the right pricing that can hit it big with mainstream owners, among other things.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,490
I hope both consoles do well. It's better for the gaming industry.

We don't need one console to rule 'm all.
 

CollectedDust

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,044
Indiana
I think (and hope) we see a tighter race next gen. Maybe less so in Europe and Asia, but certainly in the US. I think Gamepass is proving to be a big win for MS, and will likely help them gain momentum leading into next gen. That doesn't seem to help the exclusives problem, where Sony still has a commanding lead.

I don't think MS will make the same mistakes twice, and a closer race should prove good for consumers (fingers crossed).
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,062
I'd also add Either may win - Price

The PS4 was £80 cheaper than the Xbox One at launch and £350 is a hell of a lot more tempting than £430. There was a number of reason but price certainly helped Sony.
 

Kiekura

Member
Mar 23, 2018
4,043
PS4 succes and people moving to digital downloads and PS5 being BC makes PS5 "winner" If look consoles sold.

It remains to see can Sony match what gamepass offers. Azure deal is good start and Sony executives are talking how they are going to push PSnow more and Focus More to it.
 

Kemono

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,669
Outside the US and UK playstation will beat xbox by a wide margin. Inside the US/UK it'll be trickier than this gen but even there i think sony'll rush ahead.

In the end sony will win again but it also will be the best gen for xbox so far.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
Xbox is relevant in a handful of markets. Playstation is relevant globally.

If both launch at the same time for the same price, PS5 will dominate.
 

Papercuts

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,030
Playstation has a huge leg up on selling hardware and that's unlikely to change.

But the concept of winning or losing has changed a lot. Microsoft is making more and more money off of people who will never own xbox hardware. There's plenty of ways for these companies to thrive in different ways.
 

ericsp17

Member
Oct 27, 2017
480
I'll end up both I'm sure, just a matter of when. I hope both are ruthless in terms of power, price and games as that benefits me most. I'm not really concerned with their sales battle, I just want compelling products.
 

JahIthBer

Member
Jan 27, 2018
10,383
I think people saying PS will carry it's advantage over forget Gen 7, PS2 sold 150mil units but so many of those die hard PS2 users jumped to Xbox 360.
It's going to come down to exclusives & service, Microsoft has an advantage service wise with Gamepass at the moment but im sure Sony will have an answer, but when it comes to exclusives, Sony has that in the bag unless Microsoft really get their studio's to produce some games on the level of Naughty Dog & Santa Monica.
 

Hamchan

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,966
I think we're entering an era where the number of subscribers to services, such as game pass and ps now, become more important in terms of "winning" rather than pure console hardware sales.
 

Deleted member 12352

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,203
If the prices are the same, then it seems like whichever is already the more popular brand will do better... unless they commit some massive blunder obvs.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,119
I'm confused about the 'bolder' part of the ecosystem, are you referring to backwards compatibility and Gamepass? If indeed that's the case, BC is going to be on both systems next gen and PS Now is already a competitor of Gamepass despite this forum's dismissal of it. Other than that I'm not sure I see much difference between the two 'ecosystems'.

Let's be honest, even Sony does not see the current incarnation of PS Now to be a competitor of Game Pass. Sony is not giving away every exclusive they make on launch day for $10 a month like Microsoft has promised to do.
 

Huntersknoll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,674
I feel like this next gen won't be such a blow out like previous ones. I do think exclusives will push the sales of the consoles. It will be a tight race.
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,713
United States
It's an interesting question for sure. I think it's honestly the defining question of this next generational shift.

I think the services and devices Microsoft produces are the best in the console industry. I think they've done amazing things with their technology as the generation has gone on. Not just in terms of the console itself, but in peripherals and infrastructure too. Microsoft has created a platform that I would strongly prefer to play every single one of my video games on. It's an ecosystem that feels like it's growing and broadening and I like that a lot. That's a very strong foundation to launch in to a new generation with.

I owned a PS3 and now a PS4, namely because of the exclusive software. But I can't say that Sony has impressed me at all with its hardware or services since launch. My PlayStation 4 feels exactly the same as it did when I bought it at launch. The Pro upgrade, which I made, felt compulsory rather than exciting. I don't know. I think Xbox has done a better job at being exciting and indicating the direction their system is moving next gen. There is still time for Sony to do that, of course, but they haven't yet.

The change from last gen to current gen saw a lot of people leave Xbox for PlayStation. I think there are a lot of factors that contributed to this, but I think one of the biggest ones was that it was a clean break for both consoles. You couldn't take anything with you. Your games and your saves needed to stay behind. That fresh start meant you could only play what was coming moving forward. I think people felt better at the time of what PlayStation was promising back then. But these days, heading in to Gen 8, I kinda feel better about what Xbox is doing.

But this time there's not going to be a clean break. It sounds like it will be an iterative set of systems that will try to keep everybody cemented in their current ecosystems. I wonder if the allure of new technology will bring people back to Xbox or if people have gotten comfortable enough on PlayStation that it won't matter.

I think I will always have a PlayStation for the exclusives. But, for the first time, I might explore owning both consoles and making Xbox my lead machine. Time will tell.
 

Nameless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,361
I don't know if I agree with your premise OP.

VR, Streaming service, share play, remote play, F2P games don't require plus --- there's plenty in the Playstation ecosystem that MS doesn't offer.
 

Trago

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,605
PS will still have the worldwide advantage, but I don't think it'll be as lopsided next gen thanks to MS making better moves for Xbox.
 

Kiekura

Member
Mar 23, 2018
4,043
Playstation has a huge leg up on selling hardware and that's unlikely to change.

But the concept of winning or losing has changed a lot. Microsoft is making more and more money off of people who will never own xbox hardware. There's plenty of ways for these companies to thrive in different ways.

Yep exactly this. Sony probably wins on tradional sales, but Microsoft could be making more money with Xcloud and gamepass.
 

adz2ka

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,034
It's a video game console. I buy them to play video games. Sony has the better exclusives, therefore my choice is an easy one.

First and foremost it's this.

Secondly, and more personally, I don't particularly care for a subscription model like Game Pass or whatever as my time is precious - I'd rather pay for a single game and play it over the course of a month or 2 rather than access to 100s of games that I will pass over without second regard.
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,865
PlayStation is just stronger. They need to stumble hard in order for Xbox to have a chance at even matching them in hardware sales.

Microsoft isn't focusing on hardware sales any more though, they'll continue to sell hardware, but their focus is now of software and services.
 

jacks81x

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,460
NYC
The two companies will have different definitions of winning next gen. MS doesn't care about how many consoles they sell. They care about MAUs and services. Sony will still care about selling as many PlayStations as possible.
 

Cactuar

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
5,878
I love Japanese games. Period. The die has been cast on this decision long ago, my friend.
 

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
15,369
Kitchener, ON
My expectation in the OP's scenario is that Xbox would chart modest wins in the US and UK powered by the brand, ecosystem and casuals while Sony cleans up elsewhere and the hardcores buy both... eventually.

Not much different than the X360/PS3 gen outside of Sony having a faster start out of the gates.
 

Dysun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,975
Miami
Best case scenario is that they are even in the US, which will incentive both to do better. Globally it won't be a contest unless Sony really drops the ball.
 

Dussck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,136
The Netherlands
I can't think of any Microsoft exclusives I want to play at all. So... yea... Even if their machine is twice as powerful as Sony's I'm not really interested.
 

Canucked

Comics Council 2020 & Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,416
Canada
Bolder Ecosystem to me just means that they hype MAU which is pretty much the same as Playstations. I think MS can really push GamePass as their big thing (which is a great big thing to have) but Live itself isn't anything to be super proud of.

Worldwide people will still stick with Playstation. While MS has top of the line online services, people will see PS online services as "enough" when comparing the games and brands.

I bet the consoles do as well as their current gen counterparts.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,139
I don't play video games because I enjoy ecosystems and subscriptions models. I play video games because I enjoy video games. I suspect that is true of most people.
 

Reinhard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,604
Worldwide it isn't even a contest, Sony will crush it again. I think in the US, though, success will be pretty even for both parties.