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supercommodore

Prophet of Truth
Member
Apr 13, 2020
4,190
UK
It's the exact opposite. Clearly lessons were learned for XSX, no pack-ins that should be optional and make an extremely capable console that's designed around games and not held back. Making a powerful console comes with a price of course and the Series S(so terrible, can't believe it's going to be named this) is the answer to that.

Yes, some lessons have been learned, but I would argue none of that matters if they come in $100 more expensive than their competitor. The XSX at launch will be compared on price to only one console and that is the PS5. I can't see the PS5 being $599, given the BOM estimates put it in the $450-500 range as well as Sony avoiding "599". Making the XSX more expensive would be a stupid mistake in my opinion.
 

wingkongex

Member
Aug 25, 2019
2,187
Yeh I would agree with this.

Why do you think the DE would be 100 less? Disc drives usually are under 50, look at the discrepancy between the One S and SADE.

Not an exact 1 to 1 comparison, but I'm pretty sure the One S Digital was $100 less than the One S with the disc drive on the MS site without any bundles.

Edit: To clarify, that was recently. I know when it came out it was $50 less, but how long did it actually stay that way?
 

lost7

Member
Feb 20, 2018
2,750
I remember the IGN guy (Ryan?) had interviewed Phil a long time ago and someone had mentioned about the importance of price and how they were confident MS was not going to be undercut by the competition again. There is no way they launch at $600, like 0 chance in my book
 

Uzupedro

Banned
May 16, 2020
12,234
Rio de Janeiro
If we are going to compare, the One SAD and the PS5 DE were/are going to release in very different points of its respective generations, the SAD was released one year ago (if I'm not mistaken), the PS5 DE will be available since day one, they have a way bigger public to approach with the DE and a $100 price gap would do this well.

Of course that $50 gap would be enough and would match the fabrication costs(20~30 less because of the disc drive), so my expectations are 50/50 in relation to this.
 

supercommodore

Prophet of Truth
Member
Apr 13, 2020
4,190
UK
thats not how it works. These companies are not going to take major losses on these systems. The sooner people realize that the better

I didn't say they should take large losses. The Bloomberg BOM put the PS5 in the $450-500 range. If true, selling at $499 would not be a "major loss" for them. I don't see MS launching at a price disadvantage again and certainly not a $100 one.

No matter if Xbox try to control the price narrative with respect to the Series S being the cheaper option every media outlet will have the headline cost comparison of PS5 and XSX. It is what the entire price discussion will be centred around.

If MS can't sell the XSX near $500 without large losses then that's their fault with the design as far as I'm concerned.
 

Fabtacular

Member
Jul 11, 2019
4,244
Or you know, MS can just announce the consoles at the lowest prices they can and move forward...
Clearly both companies fall into one of two camps:

(1) Wants to sell their console at minimal loss (read: higher price) but are prepare to take losses at a lower price if their competitor adopts a lower price.
(2) Wants to sell at a lower price, hoping to undercut their competitor, but believes that the competitor will price-match if they announce first.

Understanding this, it's clear why this game of chicken is happening.

At the end of the day, I think Sony will blink first. All early returns indicate incredible market strength for their platform, and so I think they'll decide that they don't have a ton to lose either way. If they are considering pricing high, maybe they split the baby and launch at the midway point between their two prices. Or if they are thinking low, they might just figure that they don't have a ton to gain by undercutting Xbox (since they're already leading) and worst-case the MS match will just further eat into MS' ability to invest in other parts of their platform.
 

Crax

Member
May 21, 2018
876
I expected the price to be $599 for both and I think that's okay considering how powerful these machines are, but if the PS5 is 100 USD cheaper then I honestly don't have much hope for XSX. Don't think that's going to happen though.
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,000
1. Why take more of a loss than you need to?
2. "They" could do anything, they won't because that wouldn't be smart. This tit for tat between people over who has more to lose from going first/last in these ridiculous hypotheticals, is starting to feel really platform war-ish.

1. Because they are launching the same month as a competitor that has a clear lead in interest and now they are missing the key game launch that they banked on to move Xboxs in November.
2. I'm being real here, Sony has no pressure to announce the price. They will still sell more even if they are the more expensive product, but they are mostly competing with their internal expectations rather than MS here. Outselling the PS4 seems like the bigger concern for them in all honesty.

Eh, we don't even know if Series S and Series X will be launching at the same time. And the whole reason for spending millions on R&D on Lockhart was to undercut Sony. If they need to wait a bit longer, I really don't see how thats foolish.

Hell, in a few weeks if Sony hasn't brought up the price they could just reveal Series S as a more affordable options, with prices "coming soon", and show some gameplay running on both systems.

Going first just because your competitor has "more momentum" would just give them the opportunity to get even more momentum lol.

It's foolish because time really isn't on their side anymore. Before they were going to launch the console with the biggest franchise they had, that was always the plan. Now it seems like their only option is to price as low as they can go since the November launch seems like a one-sided battle now.

Clearly both companies fall into one of two camps:

(1) Wants to sell their console at minimal loss (read: higher price) but are prepare to take losses at a lower price if their competitor adopts a lower price.
(2) Wants to sell at a lower price, hoping to undercut their competitor, but believes that the competitor will price-match if they announce first.

Understanding this, it's clear why this game of chicken is happening.

At the end of the day, I think Sony will blink first. All early returns indicate incredible market strength for their platform, and so I think they'll decide that they don't have a ton to lose either way. If they are considering pricing high, maybe they split the baby and launch at the midway point between their two prices. Or if they are thinking low, they might just figure that they don't have a ton to gain by undercutting Xbox (since they're already leading) and worst-case the MS match will just further eat into MS' ability to invest in other parts of their platform.

You are forgetting this one

(3) No pressure to announce the price and due to economic instability in the market, they can wait and watch.

Sony mostly understands that the PS5 has the interest they were hoping for before fully announcing it so they are being smart about price. The reaction to MS's prices could sway them in another way, but the recession outlook as we head deeper into the shopping quarter could be something they're monitoring at the same time.

I do think they have nothing to worry about given the interest we have seen from their hardware and software reveals, but taking as long as they can is definitely something only they can afford right now. MS on the other hand has to be smart and fast with stopping the interest loss.
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
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Oct 25, 2017
17,360
It's foolish because time really isn't on their side anymore. Before they were going to launch the console with the biggest franchise they had, that was always the plan. Now it seems like their only option is to price as low as they can go since the November launch seems like a one-sided battle now.

Microsoft literally has more to lose by announcing a price than waiting. Before, they had Halo. Now? They don't. It makes no difference if they announce something today vs them announcing something October 1st.

And they don't need to launch Series S the same day, I really don't think they do.

They gain nothing by talking first over the next month.
 

VinFTW

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,470
I wouldnt go anywhere near a console with absolutely no AAA exclusives @ $600

That would ensure I don't touch this thing until 2021/$500
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,000
Microsoft literally has more to lose by announcing a price than waiting. Before, they had Halo. Now? They don't. It makes no difference if they announce something today vs them announcing something October 1st.

And they don't need to launch Series S the same day, I really don't think they do.

They gain nothing by talking first over the next month.

The waiting on price part was always intended before the Halo delay. Now they are at the point where they should bite the bullet and go low on price because based on interest alone the PS5 can take being higher priced.

Do you think the XSX having a $50 price advantage over the PS5 is going to sway a single person into switching their purchase? They need to go as low as they can.
 

indosmoke

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,054
France
I wouldn't be surprised if it's 599 (they market it as a high-end, premium product after all), but I may not be there day 1 if that's the case.

599 would also make more sense for the positioning of Series S (most people seem to think it's going to be 299$ but there is absolutely no chance it's that low, imo - I'd be happy to be proven wrong!).

I feel like they are clearly expecting Sony to go 599 as well, but a) they don't want to be the first ones to announce it, and b) if possible and if necessary they will try to undercut. Phil really insisted on their "flexibility" in that domain.


Fun times ahead, if the (regular) PS5 and XSX are really 599, the reactions/backpedaling over here will be something...
 

ryan299

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,425
I'm curious if MS would still release a Halo limited edition console this fall if they were planning on it. Like the Cyberpunk one they could include a preorder code for the game
 

LeMillion

Member
Jun 9, 2020
2,267
I'm preparing for the bad news of Series X and PS5 being $600 machines. I figure I'll be pleasantly surprised if they come in lower.
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,360
The waiting on price part was always intended before the Halo delay. Now they are at the point where they should bite the bullet and go low on price because based on interest alone the PS5 can take being higher priced.

Do you think the XSX having a $50 price advantage over the PS5 is going to sway a single person into switching their purchase? They need to go as low as they can.

I guess I'll ask this way: what does Microsoft gain by announcing the price today instead of on... let's say October 15th. How will it ultimately help them sell more units?
 

Devious

Member
Oct 31, 2017
436
California
I think someone mentioned it in this thread before - or it might have been in the DF price thread - but I think both Sony and MS want to price it at $599, but are waiting for one of them to announce it first just to see public reaction and then react accordingly.

Nonetheless, these $599 rumors make me a little uneasy. Won't be a day one purchase that's for sure.
 

PsyDec

Member
Jun 3, 2019
1,486
What was it that Dusk said about 'being too one sided'? I'm seeing on Reddit but can't find reference to what's being talked about.
 
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SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,000
I guess I'll ask this way: what does Microsoft gain by announcing the price today instead of on... let's say October 15th. How will it ultimately help them sell more units?

Announcing today, you mean later this month as intended? They can get hype by having pre-orders open, they'll have time to market each of the two Series consoles and explain the advantages of each one, and just plainly stop the bleeding from the Halo delay with nice price points.

Standing still after moving Halo Infinite to 2021 not only keeps the interest deflated (hell lots of people are still not over it) but it makes them look like a deer caught in the headlights.
 

Kibbles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,418
Ooof get ready for $600
gamerant.com

Xbox Series X Price Possibly Leaks From Monster Promotion

Due to the Halo: Infinite and Monster Energy promotion, fans may now have a pretty big clue as to the price of the Xbox Series X console.

Lttp but yeah, with no first party what are they thinking? I think it'll be amazing by the time a Series X slim is out though, will probably wait for that.
 
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VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,360
Announcing today, you mean later this month as intended?

Basically sooner rather than later. If they announce the price before Sony, how does that benefit them?

They can get hype by having pre-orders open, they'll have time to market each of the two Series consoles and explain the advantages of each one

Can they not show off games, get hype going, talk about Game Pass deals coming without talking about the price?

Standing still after moving Halo Infinite to 2021 not only keeps the interest deflated (hell lots of people are still not over it) but it makes them look like a deer caught in the headlights.

It seems like their goal was always to announce the price after Sony did, that's a major reason of the Series S console. Announcing it to create some possible short-term hype which be counteracted by Sony doesn't seem to be the best move imo.

They gain nothing from announcing the price ASAP, but there is the possibility of waiting a bit longer and seeing what happens.
 

supercommodore

Prophet of Truth
Member
Apr 13, 2020
4,190
UK
That was the original speculation but now insiders have come forward and said that they are hearing the PS5 is more expensive.

Fair enough. Even with that I won't believe Sony is launching at $599 until I see it and assuming that there will be at a price match, the XSX either.

I could be massively wrong, but £599 will be a really tough sell in the U.K. right now for either console.
 

Jamie

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
940
I love how in a matter of a few months, the series x went from possibly $400/maybe 450 to $600, and series s from a burger at mickey d's to $450 now? What a roller coaster these platform leaders have put everyone through, hopefully that ends soon.
 

Firenoh

Member
Mar 7, 2019
3,467
Sony and Microsoft are holding back on price because they're both revving up their Super Secret AAA launch games, obviously.
 

iareec

Banned
Jul 19, 2020
503
Nothing today and nothing tomorrow, hope to know something this Monday. I hate waiting, it's August.
 

Kevin360

OG Direct OP
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,663
Honestly, I'm about to lose it waiting for these console prices. Any price over $500 and I'm out, so I'd rather just know now whether I'm buying them or not.
 

Dragoncaine

Member
Jun 5, 2019
4,026
I really don't want to believe $600. $600 to play my old games at launch? I'm good chief, thanks. PS5 is no better if they charge $600 because they don't have the equivalent of Game Pass
 

Fizie

Member
Jan 21, 2018
2,850
What was it that Dusk said about 'being too one sided'? I'm seeing on Reddit but can't find reference to what's being talked about.
It was in response to that stupid thread someone created here that questioned if Xbox could even compete with Playstation, and with Era being Era, it was obviously lopsided with a lot of questionable takes.

In response to other guesses in the thread on price, I think $399 is insane - no chance of that. I can definitely see $599, which is why the longer this game of chicke goes on the better as it may put pressure on both to lower / compete and get closer to that $499 price point.
 

Searsy82

Member
May 13, 2019
860
I'm fine with $600 for the included hardware. It also increases the ease of getting one at launch.
 

knightmawk

Member
Dec 12, 2018
7,482
What was it that Dusk said about 'being too one sided'? I'm seeing on Reddit but can't find reference to what's being talked about.

I saw that, and I think it's pretty telling that the person calling him didn't include any of his actual statements. Saw a screenshot of a tweet where basically he said he shared it because console warring is stupid and he felt like tilting the balance. He said he partially regrets saying it, but I couldn't find him saying any of it was untrue, more got the impression that he regretted stirring the pot.

It hardly matters at this point, a few other people have corroborated what he heard about Capcom and we'll see the truth about slight differences in visual fidelity and peak resolution soon anyway.
 

Teamocil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,132
Yes for sure. Not necessarily far in advance, however. My guess would be retailers will be briefed on final price a few days prior to the announce.
When I worked at Best Buy we would sometimes not have prices for some items until literally a couple weeks before. It's all coming from one database and the tags got rotated every week with the new weekly ad so seeing a super high placeholder at retailers wouldn't surprise me
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
13,000
Basically sooner rather than later. If they announce the price before Sony, how does that benefit them?

Striking first and effectively could literally change things around for them at this point. Going second just to undercut them anyways but with as little loss as they can just doesn't compare.

You seem to think that they have no choice but to announce the price after Sony, maybe MS thinks it as well. But the worst case scenario is the XSX being the same price as the PS5 because realistically Sony doesn't need to be cheaper. I have no idea what the internal discussion is like for MS but maybe they think even having the XSX the same price as the PS5 would be too tough for them to compete with and thats why they are holding out like this.

Remember, the XSX was revealed 8 months ago versus the PS5 being revealed only 2 months ago. I think they should take control of the situation and just go low on the pricing to make their consoles as attractive as possible.


Can they not show off games, get hype going, talk about Game Pass deals coming without talking about the price?

Wasn't that exactly what the July Xbox Showcase was about? That didn't do much despite the many GP additions. There is only so much they can talk about Game Pass when they have a premium console and another open secret console that hasn't been announced and neither have a price in sight.

It is a little bizarre that MS has so much price anxiety when the XSS being significantly weaker than the PS5 and XSX already gives them the entry point price edge.

It honestly feels like Sony is making them sweat it out to effectively give them as little time to market as they can. I doubt they have any intention of being the cheaper competitor when they have so much going for them with their first party games like Miles Morales.


It seems like their goal was always to announce the price after Sony did, that's a major reason of the Series S console. Announcing it to create some possible short-term hype which be counteracted by Sony doesn't seem to be the best move imo.

They gain nothing from announcing the price ASAP, but there is the possibility of waiting a bit longer and seeing what happens.

That was the goal just like having Halo Infinite day one on the XSX was the goal, but the dominoes aren't falling as they intended. Right now it feels like they should throw down the gauntlet and price their hardware in a way that is too good to pass up. It is the only area left that they can turn into a huge win, and they know they have to be cheaper anyways.
 

Hulkamania78

Member
Oct 29, 2017
167
Manchester UK
I think honestly if they're anything over £500 I can't get both day one. With games and extra controller for the PS5 that's 600-700. The xb1x I can get away with because of the GP but if it's £600 my PS5 day one will have to wait
 

Deleted member 56752

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 15, 2019
8,699
Striking first and effectively could literally change things around for them at this point. Going second just to undercut them anyways but with as little loss as they can just doesn't compare.

You seem to think that they have no choice but to announce the price after Sony, maybe MS thinks it as well. But the worst case scenario is the XSX being the same price as the PS5 because realistically Sony doesn't need to be cheaper. I have no idea what the internal discussion is like for MS but maybe they think even having the XSX the same price as the PS5 would be too tough for them to compete with and thats why they are holding out like this.

Remember, the XSX was revealed 8 months ago versus the PS5 being revealed only 2 months ago. I think they should take control of the situation and just go low on the pricing to make their consoles as attractive as possible.




Wasn't that exactly what the July Xbox Showcase was about? That didn't do much despite the many GP additions. There is only so much they can talk about Game Pass when they have a premium console and another open secret console that hasn't been announced and neither have a price in sight.

It is a little bizarre that MS has so much price anxiety when the XSS being significantly weaker than the PS5 and XSX already gives them the entry point price edge.

It honestly feels like Sony is making them sweat it out to effectively give them as little time to market as they can. I doubt they have any intention of being the cheaper competitor when they have so much going for them with their first party games like Miles Morales.




That was the goal just like having Halo Infinite day one on the XSX was the goal, but the dominoes aren't falling as they intended. Right now it feels like they should throw down the gauntlet and price their hardware in a way that is too good to pass up. It is the only area left that they can turn into a huge win, and they know they have to be cheaper anyways.
I disagree. Thinks it makes way more sense for them to wait and be flexible. If PS5 is cheapest - for any length of time - it only buries them deeper
 
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