Series X won't cost more than PS5. No way they are doing that again after this gen. I think they both retail for either $400 or $450. Both companies are prepared to take a $50-$100 loss on the hardware.
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Xbox Boss: Price a "Critical Factor" - Next-Gen Console Watch (Featuring Phil Spencer)
- Thread starter TheUnseenTheUnheard
- Start date
Ok then I guess my thoughts stand.
I think the XSX need to be:
- Same price as the PS
- Lower
- Higher by $50 max with Gamepass and/or Halo Infinite
If they still have the XSS(Lockhart) then they could go a bit higher than Sony but I think they should still include Gamepass or something else.
I'll be surprised if it's anything less than $499. That's not a bad price, but it's still going to be a hefty price tag for your average consumer, especially with where the economy is likely to be at during launch.
I can't see either console being $399 with everything they're offering. I predict $450-$499 which is a steal for what they're offering.
I... didnt say that? I was just saying how Sony was taking a different approach to squeezing power out of their hardware where MS was just going with the traditional method of putting in more CU's. That could affect price, how much it can is up for debate
So this is 2 interviews in a row where he's talked a lot about price and doubled down on each about how critical pricing is...even talking about taking a short term hit.
Yeah this thing isn't going to be a penny over $499 and I'm convinced now more than ever it'll be cheaper.
Yeah this thing isn't going to be a penny over $499 and I'm convinced now more than ever it'll be cheaper.
Agreed. I think MS are certainly willing to take the hit, just so they can have the strongest start for the system. They have the hardware, services, games and studios. A high price would probably be the only downer for many, so getting that price parity in would be great for everyone involved.
No one knows what Lockhart really is though. Nothing 100% concrete on it, just rumors and smoke.
Much smaller, but much higher clocks, so Microsoft will almost certainly be getting better yields than Sony.
How much better, we don't know, but there's probably not as much of a price difference there as first appears.
I think even if Lockhart exists, it doesn't launch until 2021...
Instead of a Series X price drop, just introduce Lockhart and start the buzz over again.
$499 and free months of Gamepass is a good deal for a launch console. I don't see Sony or MS going below $449. I think considering the tech in both boxes, you are getting something amazing for 499.
I think Microsoft will consider game pass as important value that perhaps sees them not even matching Sony and if Lockhart is true that will be undercutting Sony no doubt along with gamepass being what hooks people in over Sony and individual games but they may do a game pass of their own which could be a cool surprise.
I think Microsoft will consider game pass as important value that perhaps sees them not even matching Sony and if Lockhart is true that will be undercutting Sony no doubt along with gamepass being what hooks people in over Sony and individual games but they may do a game pass of their own which could be a cool surprise.
I mean, Phil said in one of the interviews they have only a few more hardware things but from now on it's going to be focusing on games. Maybe a Lockhart announcement is in there, but I agree I think they will drop the budget console after Series X has been out for a year or two like the new Switch Lite.
I mean all you really have to do is bundle in GP...you'd get Infinite (if it doesn't get delayed) at launch.
That's ridiculous value.
Thats the funny thing. MS don't need to bundle games, just GPU. If Halo launches same day, everyone gets it, probably a day or so before thanks to New Zeland.
Both consoles are launching at $399. Book it. Maybe there should be an avatar bet thread or something lol. But these consoles will be launching during what will possibly be a global depression. Much better to take a hit and launch cheaper, so that money can be made on software. This is especially true of Microsoft, who will have PC sales, Game Pass/Xbox Live/Ultimate subs, and Xcloud to soften the blow of taking said hit on the new console itself.
BOM estimates are terrible and I wish people would stop paying them so much mind. Sony and Microsoft are in long term contracts with their parts vendors and have much better pricing that anyone would think. They also know they will lower costs over time, hopefully in time for a lower cost model right as the sales momentum starts to kick in.
I find it really hard to predict a price for XSX. On one hand, you can see that they tried to create a really powerful console. Which makes a lot of sense, when you also have something like Lockhart coming. But then there also have been some obvious cost-saving attempts:
- Using a mix of 1/2 GB chips for RAM, resulting in a pool of 16 GB with varying BW instead of going for 10 x 2 = 20 GB with constant BW
- Rather conservative SSD design. Still quite fast compared to HDDs, but also less raw speed than SSDs like the Samsung SSD 950 Pro, which is from 2015
- No optical port for audio
I think initially, their plan was something like this:
$349: Lockhart
$599: XSX (12 TF, 20 GB RAM, 5.5 GB/s SSD)
...but the points above make me think that they might have scrapped Lockhart (for whatever reason), and instead want to release a $499 XSX.
- Using a mix of 1/2 GB chips for RAM, resulting in a pool of 16 GB with varying BW instead of going for 10 x 2 = 20 GB with constant BW
- Rather conservative SSD design. Still quite fast compared to HDDs, but also less raw speed than SSDs like the Samsung SSD 950 Pro, which is from 2015
- No optical port for audio
I think initially, their plan was something like this:
$349: Lockhart
$599: XSX (12 TF, 20 GB RAM, 5.5 GB/s SSD)
...but the points above make me think that they might have scrapped Lockhart (for whatever reason), and instead want to release a $499 XSX.
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I agree, I don't put too much faith in BOM determined by market research companies and analysts because they often ignore the specific deals that these companies have in place with their suppliers and tend to use standard prices for the OEM market as figures.
I don't consider the 450$ PS5 BOM figure that Bloomberg estimated as gospel but it's better than nothing.
And with an over 400$ BOM + manufacturing/assembling costs+ packaging costs+ shipping costs to consider it's clear that selling these consoles at something like 399$ without accepting a loss is impossible.
Agreed. A lot of people under estimate the impact clock speeds can have on silicon viability/price.
Hey if it were the largest consumer die ever made, you could have counted on it!
They'll bundle in three months of Game Pass, and Halo Infinite will arrive four months after launch. Genius!
Even in the best case scenario, I doubt MS believes they can surpass Sony in console sales next gen, however there's no question they believe they can increase their console market share more next gen than this gen, and their overall market share and revenue in the video game industry through multiple ways of accessing the Xbox ecosystem that they've been investing into for years will finally pay off.
At the very least, being more expensive than the PS5 would be inconsistent with what Phil has said on record. He has noted that the console will not be out of position on power or price. To be more expensive, I think that means it also would need to be considerably more powerful. The consensus among reasonable people seems to be that the two consoles are comparable in terms of real-world power, so I expect a similar price if Phil is true to his word.
I think they would love it if the PS5 launched at $449 or $499 so they also could take less of a hit on revenues, but if Sony somehow gets to $399 I think MS will match it. Further, Phil noted in the IGN interview that he is getting incredible support from Microsoft to stay agile on pricing.
In simple terms, none of the available evidence adds up to a price margin of $100 in Sony's favor.
They came very close to matching the sales of PS3 with the 360, so I dont see it as entirely unlikely. As I said, they have Sony beat in everything but exclusives, which itself is no small matter obviously, but I think it might end up counting for a lot in the long run. Just look at the whole BC situation, which I think is a microcosm of a lot of this. MS is a juggernaught when it comes to software & services and infrastructure, and they have enormous resources to draw from. Its far from clear cut this gen to me.
I'm pretty sure they will match Sony's price and include GP. The fact that you could just buy the console and play their 1st party games on day 1 without any extra cost would be a really good value that will definitely persuade a lot of people. After that I'm sure they will lick a lot of people into GPU so its an ideal situation for them.
Things are different from 2005-6 to 2020. Sony has built up deserved loyalty to their brand over this generation that MS will have to compete against. MS knows they'll have to slowly chip away at that in order to gain more and more ground over time in the console space. Obviously their investments from years ago and learned lessons have put them in a fantastic place to start off next generation on the right foot.
Did you Watch the Video? They would match the price of the PS5. That's for sure.
In gaming Brand loyalty doesn't really matter maybe for a part of the sold units, but not much.
Just look at the past:
PS2 to PS3
Or Wii to Wii U.
AT LAUNCH price and console power matters more.
launch lineups are generally speaking mediocre anyway.
just look at the PS4 Launch lineup. Was there any great PS4 exclusive game? not really.
It was the Price and Power that swayed people from Xbox 360 to PS4.
Right, and Playstation brand loyalty is certainly one of the challenges Xbox has to face, but I wouldnt say that loyalty is any stronger now than it was entering the 7th console generation. Sony were fresh of the PS2, which still is the best selling console of all time. They were flying just as high back then, even if they did screw up a lot leading up to the release of the PS3.
Sony's PS3 launch was a fuck up of epic proportion. Despite launching much sooner, being cheaper AND having third party games perform better, Microsoft only got a tie last gen. That's how strong Playstation brand is.
Xbox will likely be in a better place than now , but there is no way in hell they will perform better than Sony next gen.
You're simplifying things by using the past as evidence but aren't considering how different and unique the situations were at each time and how they will be in 2020 and once again Sony's brand loyalty earned this generation especially with their output of AAA games like Spider-man, Horizon Zero Dawn, God of War, and there upcoming blockbuster in The Last of Us 2 are major things Xbox will have to contend with regardless of price and power.
It's stronger now than it's ever been due to Sony's investment in first party paying off this generation. Sony's PS1 and PS2 were built off of third party games that were either exclusive to or debuted on those consoles. Also Sony's strong Japanese support helps with their brand loyalty.
The console that needs ludicrous cooling for its 36CU GPU to hit 10TF is the one brute forcing power.
I dont really think the mainstream can tell the difference between whats first party and whats third, it seems far more likely that they are interested only in the titles themselves. As I said, Sony still has an advantage there, but all the other factors do add up for Xbox to mount a serious challenge. Im still not at all convinced that brand loyalty is stronger now than it was leading up from ps2 to ps3. If anything the amount of exclusives are fewer than ever due to how gaming has evolved.
There's no doubt I believe Xbox will do better next gen than last. However you have to be realistic to the situation in 2020 and no matter how well Xbox's consoles sell, I don't believe even MS thinks it will sell more than PS5. They're not relying on that either hence them expanding Xbox beyond consoles. They're looking at capturing more of the overall market share in the video game industry in multiple ways.
Why are you making comparisons to other generations without also acknowledging how unique and different the situations were. Xbox 360 came out a year earlier, was cheaper, third party games performed better, and was generally looked at as having the better exclusives throughout most of the gen.
Im not saying that the situations are identical, and I never did say that, but we are allowed to look at history to at least in to some degree inform our discussions about the present and future. What Im saying is that I dont think brand loyalty, while important, is as rigid as you make it out to be, nor do I think that it is stronger now in favor of Playstation compared where it was during the PS2 to PS3 transition. I think MS is in a better position now than ever before to seriously challenge Sony.
All this repeated talk about not getting beaten on price, and price being critical. It's almost like Phil is daring PS to go lower because he knows he's got the most capital, can match any price, and can withstand the losses much better than Sony can. Cold blooded.
See, I disagree with believing the PS brand was stronger during the PS2 to PS3 transition than it is now. The internet was not what it was now and the mind share on social media and YouTube today has a huge impact. I think we're at the height of brand loyalty/console warriors. LOL
At least we can agree that there's enough brand loyalty for PS that if all things are equal, the PS5 would easily outsell XSX.
It's not just the price and power but the narrative that it was the best place to play games without all the tv, sports, 2nd hand selling(lending games) and surveillance camera shenanigans in the way. Xbox has the best plan on services going forward so it's definitely a step up from this gen. Lastly it will be the promise of upcoming games that will sway people who aren't interested in power, price or services of which I think Xbox is doing great with all the new studios. Time will tell though especially with 2020 being shitty as it is.
I've actually been thinking the same thing. Sony can't really afford to take a loss on each PS5 sold. I mean, they can, but I bet they really really don't want to. Sony as a company is reliant on the PlayStation business to drive revenue. Xbox is just a smaller piece of Microsoft as a company.
For that reason it's hard for me to imagine Sony hitting $399. I think they'll go $449, and they might even do $499. Microsoft will simply match whatever price they hit in the end. Then the Series S is there to be the really cheap sku, probably $150 less than the PS5.
MS knows that selling a more powerful console at the same price as the competition will sway a lot of people back over to their side for this upcoming generation. They'll both be $499.