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Oct 25, 2017
4,845
I'm just scratching my head about why they would wrap an Electron app in an outer UWP app layer (instead of using the default Electron Win32 .exe deployment). :)
Because all Game Pass/Windows Store games are UWP apps, the Xbox app is as well. It's very tightly integrated with Windows Store - if you press download on the Xbox app, you'll see the download start in Windows Store.

The GP games themselves are inside an UWP app layer as well which is what they do to prevent all folder access and modding, while the game developers don't have to change their Win32 executable.
 

defaltoption

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
11,529
Austin
I also fail to see why we need about five or so different apps for Xbox-things:

Annotation2020040213.png
For real this is what needs to be fixed, some consolidation. Same for iOS apps and I don't use android but probably there too. Just have a single Xbox app with all of the functionality of whatever apps you currently offer on said platform. It's not like having a music app and a movie app it's all Xbox functionality one way or another.
 

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
Wow.. MS moving away from .Net? that seems like a big deal, but I also don't actually know. Is it? Hope it works better either way, it's a good app but speed could be a lot better (same with Game Bar).
 

grmlin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,361
Germany
Wow.. MS moving away from .Net? that seems like a big deal, but I also don't actually know. Is it? Hope it works better either way, it's a good app but speed could be a lot better (same with Game Bar).
MS does this for years now. Back when Windows 8 released you could already develop native Windows 8 apps using HTML and Javascript :)
 

Yudoken

Member
Jun 7, 2019
812
Next step should be to move all games to ModifiableWindowsApps folder like they did with Halo MCC. Before the move to the modifiable folder with the Halo 1 CE update (which is extremely welcoming) I tried to run the xbox game pass version with the Reach evolved campaign mod twice on my pc (splitting my pc with Aster multiseat for two) to do a coop run with my friend at my place but it was only possible for one player with that version. Dumping the Xbox GP version (had to be done after every update andnit takes a while) for modding to work only worked for one Windows account and my friend couldn't use the Xbox gamepass version and had to buy it from Steam. Now it's extremely easy and comfortable to set it up and I only have to install the game and mods once. For some odd reason MS especially loves to add unskippable long intro videos in their games (Gears 5 and MCC) which can be removed and the game loads instantly to the menu. And there are tons of other reasons to not lock it down, having simple access to the game files should be always possible.
 
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cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
MS does this for years now. Back when Windows 8 released you could already develop native Windows 8 apps using HTML and Javascript :)
Oh I know they give people lots of flexibility. But, I guess it's "new MS" with 1st party devs moving to C++ of all things lol. But then again, if they can open source Calc.exe, what can't they do :p
 
May 25, 2019
6,045
London
For real this is what needs to be fixed, some consolidation. Same for iOS apps and I don't use android but probably there too. Just have a single Xbox app with all of the functionality of whatever apps you currently offer on said platform. It's not like having a music app and a movie app it's all Xbox functionality one way or another.

This problem isn't unique to XBox, the trend has been to break out functionality into separate apps that can be updated more quickly by different teams in parallel. There's Steam Mobile, Steam Link, and Steam Chat apps. There's the main Playstation App, the PS4 Remote Play app, the Playstation Messages app, and the PS4 Second Screen App, the Playstation Video App, and the Playstation Communities App.
 

Windu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,695
I'm just scratching my head about why they would wrap an Electron app in an outer UWP app layer (instead of using the default Electron Win32 .exe deployment). :)
Microsoft wraps all of their new apps in those type of uwp containers. MSIX is I believe what its called. Before that it was appx I believe, that only supported uwp api apps I think. MSIX supports all kinds of applications, Win32, UWP etc.... That new Windows 10 X OS will only run apps in containers like these, so Microsoft is all in.
 

Firebrand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,734
Nice. Hopefully it means a reduction in RAM usage as well, sometimes it goes above 1GB (fortunately closing the main window clears a lot of it out).

The thing could use a redesign too, but I guess a lot of the confusing stuff comes from how XBL works.
 
Last edited:
Oct 26, 2017
3,116
Amalthea
But there's no reason they can't be integrated into one app that covers all areas, that's what we're saying.
Afaik the console companion app is being dropped and is on life support because of a few remaining features (local streaming, clubs, etc). Messaging barely works on it now and is always mentioned on a banner up top when one tries to use that feature.

If it's anything like last gen, I wouldn't be surprised to see the newer Xbox app take over in November.
 

gozu

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,442
America
Microsoft wraps all of their new apps in those type of uwp containers. MSIX is I believe what its called. Before that it was appx I believe, that only supported uwp api apps I think. MSIX supports all kinds of applications, Win32, UWP etc.... That new Windows 10 X OS will only run apps in containers like these, so Microsoft is all in.

Interesting. What benefits does this MSIX container bring to Microsoft?

Edit: Apps that are packaged using MSIX run in a lightweight app container. The MSIX app process and its child processes run inside the container and are isolated using file system and registry virtualization. All MSIX apps can read the global registry. An MSIX app writes to its own virtual registry and application data folder, and this data will be deleted when the app is uninstalled or reset. Other apps do not have access to the virtual registry or virtual file system of an MSIX app.

Oh wow, they fixed the old issue with registry cruft once and for all by forbidding apps to write to it. Now you can truly drag an app to the trash can and not have to worry it's leaving any traces behind.

(except I'm sure it'll find a way to leave something. Otherwise how would you enforce full-functionality 30-day trials and the like? )

2nd EDIT: they could fingerprint your computer by reading its registry in thousands of chunks, hashing them, and uploading them to their servers as a digital fingerprint. Next time you try to get the trial it will use them to determine how similar your registry hashes are to the ones on file. Also means a necessary internet connection to initiate the trial :(
 
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elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,997
Interesting. What benefits does this MSIX container bring to Microsoft?

Edit: Apps that are packaged using MSIX run in a lightweight app container. The MSIX app process and its child processes run inside the container and are isolated using file system and registry virtualization. All MSIX apps can read the global registry. An MSIX app writes to its own virtual registry and application data folder, and this data will be deleted when the app is uninstalled or reset. Other apps do not have access to the virtual registry or virtual file system of an MSIX app.

Oh wow, they fixed the old issue with registry cruft once and for all. Now you can truly drag an app to the trash can and not have to worry it's leaving any traces behind.

(except I'm sure it'll find a way to leave something. Otherwise how would you enforce 30-day trials and the like? )

docs.microsoft.com

What is MSIX? - MSIX

This topic introduces the basics of the MSIX packaging format; a modern packaging experience for Windows apps.
 

Red

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,787
React Native is solid. MS must be liking the advantages it offers. They're using it more and more. That benefits all of us who work with it, as their contributions improve the ecosystem.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,588
Racoon City
So with it being UWP I'm guessing the Xbox App is no longer cross-platform (has it been prior? w/Linux & OSX, being Electron's strength).

Widely used Electron applications include Github Desktop client, Slack, Discord, Spotify etc. I like it as a platform. And the next version of V8 (JS engine which Electron uses) has 40% less memory footprint.

Spotify doesn't use Electron, it's their own in house thing.
 

Heynongman!

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,946
React Native is solid. MS must be liking the advantages it offers. They're using it more and more. That benefits all of us who work with it, as their contributions improve the ecosystem.
I have a co-worker that tried to push our team on to Blazor from React when we moved to the newest .net core, and every time I see something come up like this where Microsoft is using React or a form of internally I have a nice hearty chuckle and send him the link.
 

roguesquirrel

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
5,494
Yes. Xbox app is a more streamlined experience tho for PC gaming.
i dont think youve actually used these apps honestly. the only thing significantly different for the xbox app is the gamepass library and skipping over using the windows store for installs/updates.

the primary reason to use any xbox pc app is because when youre in the ecosystem you need a way to access xbox friends, group chat, and lfg and the experience doing this across the three current ways to do so is so marginally different to argue its "streamlined" is absurd.
 
OP
OP
Theorry

Theorry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
61,279
i dont think youve actually used these apps honestly. the only thing significantly different for the xbox app is the gamepass library and skipping over using the windows store for installs/updates.

the primary reason to use any xbox pc app is because when youre in the ecosystem you need a way to access xbox friends, group chat, and lfg and the experience doing this across the three current ways to do so is marginally different to argue its "streamlined" is absurd.
Lol i use it everyday.
 

roguesquirrel

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
5,494
User Warned: Hostility toward another member
Oke thats fine. I dont agree with it. But its a merry go round. So i will move on.
what is there to disagree with? the only console specific feature to the companion app is the connectivity feature that is absolutely buried in terms of importance.

im sorry you said some uninformed shit and just want to double down for no reason but the differences are minimal dude. if they werent youd actually engage beyond just saying some trite empty shit to make sure you get the last word in
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,507
what is there to disagree with? the only console specific feature to the companion app is the connectivity feature that is absolutely buried in terms of importance.

im sorry you said some uninformed shit and just want to double down for no reason but the differences are minimal dude. if they werent youd actually engage beyond just saying some trite empty shit to make sure you get the last word in

The Xbox Beta app doesn't offer nearly as many social featuers as the Xbox Companion application. Things like
- Timeline / activity feed
- Trending
- Clubs
- LFG
- Connectivity (console to PC streaming)
- Recordings
- Recently played

Some of these can be found in the Xbox Game Bar application. But overall, the Xbox Beta app is still a very barebones experience. A better experience, but very barebones. Recently they've added achievements to the Xbox Beta apps, which means that most important features have now been ported over. So I expect the Companion app to be delisted or changed near the launch of the Series X.
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,267
The Xbox app has been the worst piece of software I've used in years, so any improvement is a good thing.
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,235
Happy for this but also the biggest issues that I and others have had is that there's a wierdly high chance that games will just not install, or that the download speeds will be garbage, or the games will break during updates (halo for me most recently), and then when you do install the stuff is buried under six layers of stuff to prevent you from accessing game files without registry edits or whatever.

It's basically very inconsistent. Sometimes it just works but it's not rare for it to fuck up majorly. And fixing it when it does can be an exercise in futility.
 

grmlin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,361
Germany
I guess I'm lucky then? I never had any major issues with the Xbox Beta app. (some performance problems from time to time)
 

c043y

Member
Oct 25, 2017
430
Is this the Xbox app for game pass, or the "console companion"

why are they separate anyways??
 
Oct 28, 2017
332
Microsoft Teams is actually the worst Electron app ever built. I feel sorry for anyone that has to use it.

My experience with React Native was about a year ago building an iOS/Android app. It was a nightmare, and I know since then they have deprecated and rewrote a bunch of things. The team I was on decided to go React Native so we didn't have to learn two different languages (ObjectiveC and/or Switch and Java/Kotlin).

It's just odd that Microsoft would want to go this route. They have practically unlimited developers. Build it natively for each platform, not rely on this band-aid solution like React Native.
 

cgpartlow

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,018
Seattle, WA
i dont think youve actually used these apps honestly. the only thing significantly different for the xbox app is the gamepass library and skipping over using the windows store for installs/updates.

the primary reason to use any xbox pc app is because when youre in the ecosystem you need a way to access xbox friends, group chat, and lfg and the experience doing this across the three current ways to do so is so marginally different to argue its "streamlined" is absurd.

Honestly the Gamebar kind of killed the Xbox companion app. It has all the same functionality besides xbox streaming, and integrates way easier. I have been using it to set up xbox party chats while playing Warzone cross-platform. I love being able to pin the party and other stuff on the screen while playing.
 

nullref

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,072
Honestly the Gamebar kind of killed the Xbox companion app. It has all the same functionality besides xbox streaming, and integrates way easier. I have been using it to set up xbox party chats while playing Warzone cross-platform. I love being able to pin the party and other stuff on the screen while playing.

The Console Companion app probably eventually goes away or becomes more limited in scope once the newer Xbox app is out of beta. It can be for Xbox console owners that want to access aspects of that platform onto their PC.

Once that overlap is cleaned up, I don't really get the calls to consolidate all the Xbox-related stuff into one app. Use the main Xbox app for most things, use Game Bar if you want that stuff in-game, use the Xbox Accessories app if you have Xbox peripherals hooked up to your PC. Not everyone wants or needs all of those things, and bundling them together just bloats the app and can be a drag on development and updates. Seems like such a non-issue. It all shares the same underlying Xbox Services regardless.
 

cgpartlow

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,018
Seattle, WA
The Console Companion app probably eventually goes away or becomes more limited in scope once the newer Xbox app is out of beta. It can be for Xbox console owners that want to access aspects of that platform onto their PC.

Once that overlap is cleaned up, I don't really get the calls to consolidate all the Xbox-related stuff into one app. Use the main Xbox app for most things, use Game Bar if you want that stuff in-game, use the Xbox Accessories app if you have Xbox peripherals hooked up to your PC. Not everyone wants or needs all of those things, and bundling them together just bloats the app and can be a drag on development and updates. Seems like such a non-issue. It all shares the same underlying Xbox Services regardless.

I agree, get rid of the companion app, and then you have Game Bar, which is less of an app and more of an overlay and then the PC Xbox app as the two main apps. Peripherals can stay separate as you said, no reason for it to be integrated in the Xbox app. Also, since Game Bar is an overlay and can be turned off if you don't like it, it makes sense to have some of that stuff in the PC app for when you need it and don't have Game Bar enabled.
 

Lukas Taves

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
Brazil
With the new capabilities it's pretty much unchanged from win32 if the developer desires.

Also the application before was already delivered by the store, only difference now is that it's twice as fast and consumes 1/5 of the memory. So literally no changes in features but much faster and leaner app.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,126
With the new capabilities it's pretty much unchanged from win32 if the developer desires.

Also the application before was already delivered by the store, only difference now is that it's twice as fast and consumes 1/5 of the memory. So literally no changes in features but much faster and leaner app.
You dont need to be UWP to be delivered by the store now (at least according to them or be totally unchanged from win32). I would have hoped they had moved from UWP on this complete redesign but otherwise it is an overall improvment ye.
 

Lukas Taves

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
Brazil
Because all Game Pass/Windows Store games are UWP apps, the Xbox app is as well. It's very tightly integrated with Windows Store - if you press download on the Xbox app, you'll see the download start in Windows Store.

The GP games themselves are inside an UWP app layer as well which is what they do to prevent all folder access and modding, while the game developers don't have to change their Win32 executable.
Apps (both uwp and win32) now can expose the files they want to allow to be modified (devs can even split the main executable and allow for example scripting mods but the core executable with checks to be protected) . I think the only hold up is that developers are making their games available on gamepass /winstore with minimal code changes so they don't support the platform features.

And in theory this is compatible with Xbox so its nice to have a unified way for supporting mods across both platforms (specially since this doesn't mean the death of regular win32 games)
 

Lukas Taves

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
Brazil
You dont need to be UWP to be delivered by the store now (at least according to them or be totally unchanged from win32). I would have hoped they had moved from UWP on this complete redesign but otherwise it is an overall improvment ye.
But why would the app need to be win32? And what would be the benefit for the user?

Being uwp means that they can share code with Xbox or other platforms such the gamepass mobile apps. And that means they can concentrate on adding more features once and have that feature available every where. We see that for example on the game bar, it's running the same code base for the Xbox live features that Xbox does, just presented in a different UI
 

itchi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,287
That's good. When you have 4 electron apps started on login your RAM starts to disappear.