• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

FlashbladeERA

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,259
Let's face it, ideologically, the X-Men are basically wishy washy centrists. Why? Because the villains on both sides actually have valid points.

For the mutants, the message has like never change: Discrimination is wrong. What right do people have to harm a someone who's mutant power is like have purple skin or something? This is what makes Magneto right.

On the other hand, how many mutants have gone on rampages either out of malice or just because they couldn't control powers they get when they turn 15? I mean, if she didn't have a moral compass, Storm could fuck over the entire planet. Kitty could phase through to get bank records. And we saw what happened in the opening of X2. This means that William Stryker is right.

So you're at an impasse when very unfine people on both sides spout valid reasoning and the X-Men are stuck trying to play good cop and failing at that. Meanwhile, innocent humans and mutants would get fucked over by the evil mutants and humans.

So yeah, Xavier was wrong.


How can the villains be right and Xavier wrong when Xavier is trying to do both things

Xavier, like Magneto, is showing the world that mutants deserve every right as regular people (live life in peace, gain an education, etc...)

and Xavier, like Stryker who worries about mutants going apeshit, helps mutants deal with the sudden gained power by teaching them how to control their powers mentally and physically so they can help society instead of destroying it.


He does this all in his school.

How is Xavier wrong for having his elite students be the defenders of peace for mutant AND Human kind?
 

Mib

Member
Nov 16, 2017
656
The problem is that a lot of mutants actually are too dangerous to be left alone with their powers. When there are multiple mutants who can accidentally cause the apocalypse, that's a problem you can't just ignore.

I don't read X-Men comics, but it seems like nobody has a solid plan for how to deal with world ending mutants that doesn't involve good faith or murder.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
The problem is that a lot of mutants actually are too dangerous to be left alone with their powers. When there are multiple mutants who can accidentally cause the apocalypse, that's a problem you can't just ignore.

I don't read X-Men comics, but it seems like nobody has a solid plan for how to deal with world ending mutants that doesn't involve good faith or murder.
Xavier is attempting to solve that problem with his school. Its purpose is to teach mutants to control their powers, safeguard them from the outside world, and contain them if their abilities are too powerful/destructive/uncontrollable.
 
OP
OP
NoName999

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
Wow, what big, insightful, surface-level readings of the nuances of morality and social responsibility you have, Grandma

So you calling me an X-Men comic? :P

NoName999 just gonna make a bad take thread and then bounce?

Boooo

I usually don't post in my own topics. Weird I know. lol

How can the villains be right and Xavier wrong when Xavier is trying to do both things

Xavier, like Magneto, is showing the world that mutants deserve every right as regular people (live life in peace, gain an education, etc...)

and Xavier, like Stryker who worries about mutants going apeshit, helps mutants deal with the sudden gained power by teaching them how to control their powers mentally and physically so they can help society instead of destroying it.


He does this all in his school.

How is Xavier wrong for having his elite students be the defenders of peace for mutant AND Human kind?

Child soldiers. Our options are human fascism, mutant anarchism, or child soldiers. lol
 

Deleted member 1656

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,474
So-Cal
It's not like the X-Men are opposed to violence when push comes to shove

They are the lead of a superhero comic book after all, where the solution a lot of the time is punching

They're just not about violence being step one and as had been said—killing innocents—that's Magneto's problem
She got that from holding onto Ms Marvel
I knooooow

bleh

fucking Singer movies
 
Nov 18, 2017
2,932
Trying to critique X-Men by correlating it with centrist politics, and using the term as a derogatory.

I mean, can you spot the OP's subtle political agenda?
 

SamAlbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,384
comic books, ho!
Beats the HIV villain whose super power is spreading it...

Sounds like Hemo-Goblin, who came from the same comic that gave us Snowflame

DUzabJsVwAAphpY.jpg
 

Manmademan

Election Thread Watcher
Member
Aug 6, 2018
16,175
Doesnt seem like you read these books, honestly.
There are a LOT of X-villains, and while Magneto may operate in "shades of grey" the vast, vast majority do not.

The now defunct SHIELD was revealed to be the organization that was manufacturing Sentinels all this time. Those skyscraper sized, mutant hunting robots that routinely trashed entire city blocks of men, women, and children trying to murder mutants for existing? Their fault. Was SHIELD right? Hell NO.

There is a quasi religious anti mutant organization called "The Right" and other similar names. I cant recall the current incarnation but their philosophy has always been extermination of mutants as a religious abomination. Are THEY right? Hell no!

Apocalypse and his crew believe strictly in survival of the fittest, with humans being inferior and not fit to survive by default. They typically get "culled" en masse and their biological material used to create artificial mutant soldiers. In futures where Apocalypse wins out, he typically institutes a strict caste system resembling fuedalism where weaker mutants and humans live and die at the whim of powerful alpha and omega mutants. Is THAT guy right?

Mr. Sinister and his clones generally consider EVERYONE to only be there for his amusement re: genetic experimentation and will happily murder you in extremely painful ways in order to create monstrosities to satisfy his own curiosity. Is THAT guy right?

Mojo is running an insane TV network and enjoys killing for ratings. Is THAT guy right?

The Hellfire club are mutant hedonists who will torture, maim, and kill based on money, status, and general pleasure. Are THOSE guys right?

The phalanx is an alien race/self replicating virus and long time X-villain that uses organic life as fuel and little else. Are those guys right?

The inhumans allowed a continent sized cloud to roll across the world, because thats how new inhumans were finding out if they got superpowers in the general population. This cloud had the nasty side effect of killing most mutants on contact, sterilizing them so they could not reproduce, or inflicting an incredibly painful and generally fatal disease called M pox. The inhumans resisted all efforts to remove this cloud until it hit the point where the entire planet would become too toxic for mutants to live. Were those guys right?

During Civil War 1, Starks crew attempted to force mutants to register themselves publicly, until the xmen pointed out that anti mutant terrorists had a habit of blowing up buses full of mutant children whenever it was possible to find and target them.

Theres a lot of nuance in the "how do mutants and humans coexist" argument, but theres a LOT of X-villains that aren't interested in having this discussion.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,065
Idk, Batman is completely wrong in the way he goes about things. He could use his money to make Gothem PD the most well trained, well paid , advanced PD in the world. He could also fund non corrupt politicians to take over, provide tons of job opportunities, and provide free healthcare to the city.

Instead he wasted decades beating up criminals.

The X-Men are really just stuck in the middle. Mutants scare the crap out of people and Magnito just makes things worse.

OR he could put that money into Gotham's education system and eradicate poverty in the city within a decade. But instead he uses the death of his parents as an excuse to dress up in tights and beat up people who have probably had ten times as many traumatic events in their past.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
Let's all be real, the existence of mutant psychics (which seems to be as common a power as flight or enhanced strength) that can not only read minds but fully control them from across the planet would itself prompt a massive human campaign to identify any and all mutants and most likely genocide them if their chosen government doesn't just use them for their own means. Then factor in the end of the world shit many of their powers have and it's case closed.
 

J_ToSaveTheDay

"This guy are sick" and Corrupted by Vengeance
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
18,944
USA
Magneto eventually believes that his oppression is a misplacement of the natural order and that his mutant ability actually grants him natural supremacy. He believes in and acts on the basis of racial supremacy, ultimately inheriting the beliefs that caused him so much suffering earlier in life -- the key difference being that he has unprecedented power afforded by his mutant power to enact it. He operates on the assumption that by exemption of mutant status, you are inferior and deserve lesser station in life. He's not Malcolm X-like as many seem to try and figurehead him as, where he believes in no tolerance for oppressors and believes that you can only maintain your dignity by confronting your oppressors directly (as some have said, that's 2010s Cyclops) -- he actually believes that the people who challenge him are doing so from arrogance, and an ignorance of a perceived natural order that places mutants above all other beings on earth (and perhaps in all of existence).

Stryker is basically just Christian puritanism, and he seems to mostly operate from the ideal that basic humans that swear allegiance to God and his specific interpretation of the bible are the only way to be pure, moral beings and that all deviations are outside of and against the will of God. He's a fearmongering Bible zealot.

In any case, flawed as Xavier can be as a person, his belief is that all of humankind, mutant or not, is deserving of dignity, and he at least acknowledges that mutant power can be used as a force to defend the dignity of ALL of humankind, and with the established social order (in real life and in comics) constantly reinforcing everyone's differences (especially in a negative sense), sometimes especially the ones that seem to drive the idea of disadvantage across racial, social, class, national, religious differences, this philosophy tends not to have a lot of concrete evidence to stand on. Disadvantages DO exist for all the wrong reasons, but Magneto just believes in that himself, he's not doing shit to improve the situation, he's just flipping it and keeping it going. Magneto still plays "us vs them."

But "Magneto was right" basically just affirms racism, so imo get outta here with that shit.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
X-Men aren't centrists, though. The bad mutants don't only think that discrimination is wrong, they (have a lot of people who) think mutants are the superior beings who should subjugate the normal people under their rule and/or are willing to kill a lot of people to stop that harassment. X-Men think discrimination is wrong and want to try to change the world through positive interactions & actions.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
goddamn that was a disappointing commentary, OP.

X-Men aren't centrists, though. The bad mutants don't only think that discrimination is wrong, they (have a lot of people who) think mutants are the superior beings who should subjugate the normal people under their rule and/or are willing to kill a lot of people to stop that harassment. X-Men think discrimination is wrong and want to try to change the world through positive interactions & actions.
this.

Magneto isn't Malcom X; he's Killmonger.
 

Latpri

Banned
Apr 19, 2018
761
Neither of the extreme sides are right, what is wrong with your comprehension?

The people looking to harmonise existence between mutants and non-mutants are wrong, but either end of the spectrums looking to commit genocide are right? What have you been smoking?

So many people have mocked South Park for saying 'The Truth is in the Middle' that peoples brains have snapped and forgotten that, well, sometimes the truth IS in the middle.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,310
Isn't Magneto's side basically that mutants are superior (homo superior) and human lives are insignificant? And Senator Kelly and the like are all "well, these guys could be dangerous, so let's strip them of all their rights." Both are racists. Xavier wants them to live in idealogical but impossible harmony with each other. Who's wrong again?
 

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,748
How can the villains be right and Xavier wrong when Xavier is trying to do both things

Xavier, like Magneto, is showing the world that mutants deserve every right as regular people (live life in peace, gain an education, etc...)

and Xavier, like Stryker who worries about mutants going apeshit, helps mutants deal with the sudden gained power by teaching them how to control their powers mentally and physically so they can help society instead of destroying it.


He does this all in his school.

How is Xavier wrong for having his elite students be the defenders of peace for mutant AND Human kind?
There was a mutant(Matthew Malloy) who had powers that were so dangerous(he endes up killing his parents by mistake) that Xavier got shook and used his powers to mindfuck the guy to the point wouldn't use his powers and had him live as a human.

The truth came out in Xavier's will(he wanted the xmen to continue putting psychic blocks on Matthew) with Cyclops calling him a hypocrite and the others not knowing what to do. SHIELD and others start fucking around and antagonizing Matthew and he starts to lose control of his powers.

It ends with Cyclops almost getting through to Matthew by talking to him while also getting shit on from other xmen but then SHIELD came them down and nuked them to try and kill Matthew.(didn't work by Cyclops and Magik died) Time travel was used after that and Xavier in the past made sure Matthew's parents never met, ensuring he wouldn't exist and to undo everything that happened.

Cyclops was right.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
Doesnt seem like you read these books, honestly.
There are a LOT of X-villains, and while Magneto may operate in "shades of grey" the vast, vast majority do not.

The now defunct SHIELD was revealed to be the organization that was manufacturing Sentinels all this time. Those skyscraper sized, mutant hunting robots that routinely trashed entire city blocks of men, women, and children trying to murder mutants for existing? Their fault. Was SHIELD right? Hell NO.

There is a quasi religious anti mutant organization called "The Right" and other similar names. I cant recall the current incarnation but their philosophy has always been extermination of mutants as a religious abomination. Are THEY right? Hell no!

Apocalypse and his crew believe strictly in survival of the fittest, with humans being inferior and not fit to survive by default. They typically get "culled" en masse and their biological material used to create artificial mutant soldiers. In futures where Apocalypse wins out, he typically institutes a strict caste system resembling fuedalism where weaker mutants and humans live and die at the whim of powerful alpha and omega mutants. Is THAT guy right?

Mr. Sinister and his clones generally consider EVERYONE to only be there for his amusement re: genetic experimentation and will happily murder you in extremely painful ways in order to create monstrosities to satisfy his own curiosity. Is THAT guy right?

Mojo is running an insane TV network and enjoys killing for ratings. Is THAT guy right?

The Hellfire club are mutant hedonists who will torture, maim, and kill based on money, status, and general pleasure. Are THOSE guys right?

The phalanx is an alien race/self replicating virus and long time X-villain that uses organic life as fuel and little else. Are those guys right?

The inhumans allowed a continent sized cloud to roll across the world, because thats how new inhumans were finding out if they got superpowers in the general population. This cloud had the nasty side effect of killing most mutants on contact, sterilizing them so they could not reproduce, or inflicting an incredibly painful and generally fatal disease called M pox. The inhumans resisted all efforts to remove this cloud until it hit the point where the entire planet would become too toxic for mutants to live. Were those guys right?

During Civil War 1, Starks crew attempted to force mutants to register themselves publicly, until the xmen pointed out that anti mutant terrorists had a habit of blowing up buses full of mutant children whenever it was possible to find and target them.

Theres a lot of nuance in the "how do mutants and humans coexist" argument, but theres a LOT of X-villains that aren't interested in having this discussion.
This was beautiful.