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MadLaughter

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,070
(CW: References to Suicide, discussions further down)

There is a thread dedicated to the X-men books since the status quo changed under Jonathan Hickman, but I feel like X-Men #7, which came out this week, is truly worth highlighting. Going to talk spoilers, and these details will probably reveal some key things about this awesome series that started with House of X and Powers of X last year.

Okay, here goes.

A little background: Mutants in the Marvel universe have had a rough go of it. A very rough go of it. It's been a common observation that groups like the Avengers and Fantastic 4 are not that far off from the X-men, but mutantkind faces incredible persecution from all sides that non-mutants don't have to deal with. Death robots created by the government, anti-mutant cults, religious extremists, everything. At this point, there have been multiple global near-extinction events that have hit the X-men. Genosha, where 16 million mutants were wiped out. M-Day, where Scarlet Witch depowered most of the remaining million. The terrigen mist clouds, lethal to mutants, that ravaged the globe and killed many more.

So, understandably, the mutants hit a breaking point. Long story short, they have accomplished two very important things, each that feeds into the other.

They have united.
RCO029_1568811166.jpg

On the island of Krakoa, a mutant state has formed, where all mutants are welcome. Xavier, Magneto, Apocalypse, Sinister, thousands more. Working towards a common cause.

Secondly, all mutants are immortal.
Dead-X-Men-Return-To-Life-Comic.jpg

Sort of. They can be killed, but through a combination of Cerebro, Mr. Sinister, reality warping mutants, healing mutants, and a mutant named Goldballs, they can be truly and genuinely resurrected. Not just clones.

Now you're caught up. Which brings us to X-Men #7. Krakoa, the mutant state, resurrection...New status quo means new moral quandaries. And this issue tackles a bunch of them.

The issue begins with a woman waking up in her bed on Krakoa, and finding family and friends waiting for her.

stD13bT.png


This is Melody Guthrie. Her ability was the power to create energy to let her fly, but she was one of the mutants who lost her powers on M-day, leaving her effectively human. This is the first mention of 'The Crucible', and we don't know any details at this point. The scene shifts, and we see Cyclops and Wolverine (in a bathrobe) drinking coffee in their matching recliners in their shared home on the moon, looking up at Earth through a massive window. They shoot the shit for a while, and Scott mentions that the Crucible is today. Wolverine says he isn't going, and sensing Scott has doubts about the ritual, explains that he doesn't love the choice but he isn't the guy to talk to about moral quandaries. He recommends that Scott go talk to a priest, and so... Scott tracks down Nightcrawler.

They talk briefly about a strange structure that Krakoa (the island) has created that no one can access except for Kurt, before the subject of the Crucible is again brought up.

ikhO1Ra.png


This is the setup for the rest of the issue Scott and Kurt and talking at length about how the nature of resurrection (And the fact that they can resurrect people to be healthier, younger, without traumatic memories if they choose...) is forcing them to ask questions that they now have to grapple with. Such as, if a mutant can choose to have their resurrection make them younger, why not...better? Why not with different powers? More powers? A more 'ideal' body?

As this is happening, we witness a former(?) villain named Exodus, telling the tale of the 'pretender', Scarlet Witch, and how she ripped the gifts from mutant kind. He's preaching this parable to a group of mutant children around a campfire. It's -very- culty.

LSw44v8.png


He asks the children if they know what the Crucible is. One of them responds: "I think it's where a broken mutant has to die so they can be an unbroken mutant."

We eventually return to Kurt and Scott, who are talking about how Kurt's religion reconciles with this new status quo. As they talk, we see Melody Guthrie, now wearing a crown of flowers, entering into some kind of arena. At the same time, Kurt and Scott join the massive crown of onlookers in the stands around the arena. She steels herself, and we see what the crucible truly is:

uOUshPq.png


It's Apocalypse, and a big fucking sword.

aovDZ6D.png


Essentially, the Crucible is the rite for depowered mutants to prove that they want to be a part of the new mutant society. There are a lot of different ways to read into this, and if you haven't read the issue I recommend checking it out to get the full context. I don't think that the issue is attempting to come up with a genuine answer to the questions they raise, because as Melody battles Apocalypse, Scott and Kurt do not suddenly have any revelations or become at peace with the idea of the Crucible. Additionally, they talk about the fact that mutants are now writing desires for their resurrections into their wills:

EAkAr7V.png


Apocalypse gives Melody a chance to surrender, be healed and remain a human, but she does not take it.

0vCiGHe.png


The issue cuts to a very different ceremony. Melody Guthrie emerges from the resurrection pod, and is welcomed back by a sea of mutants. Xavier, Storm, Magneto, Apocalypse.. She stands, and thanks Apocalypse. He tells her "What victory there is is yours and yours alone."

pMD06Ez.png


There's a lot of stuff in this issue that I'm still trying to think through. The Crucible concept is wild, and in a world where they cannot restore mutant powers unless they are fully reborn (and they will not bring them back unless they are dead) I imagine that there are more peaceful ways to manage the process. But the entire series up to this point has been about instilling a sense of pride and glory into mutantkind, and there have been multiple points in the myriad series where the mutants reveal that they are well and truly not fucking around. It's not about living together and hoping for the best, it's about living together and fighting for the best. Xavier's new vision is still coexistence, but no longer being shy about it.

The art is great, I had like 15 lines from the issue that were all contenders for the title, and it was really hard to narrow down which panels to include. I probably didn't narrow it down enough. Nightcrawler along with Apocalypse, Emma Frost, Kate Pryde and a few others have really thrived with Hickman's new status quo. This has been maybe my favorite run of Marvel comics in..a very long time, if not ever.

Lastly...

ml6z2elesw631.jpg


Cyclops was right.
 
Last edited:

Tace

Avenger
Nov 1, 2017
35,438
The Rapscallion
Yeah, this might be my favorite issue of the run so far. Hickman is doing some really wild stuff for the X-men and it's been a trip. It's creepy and disturbing and awe inspiring all at once.

I also love the idea of Nightcrawler starting a religion around these new concepts

Also,

Cyclops was right
 

Paterique

Banned
Nov 12, 2017
249
amazing issue all around....man Hickman is nailing this. Been dreaming of him on xmen for 10 years. my prayer has been exausted and its managing to blow my mind more than i coudve imagined
 

Rodney McKay

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,180
Such a cool direction this whole series has taken.

Love how weird and different and interesting it is.
 

Deleted member 16365

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,127
Great issue. I don't know that I would call it a suicide though. She had to fight and got her ass kicked before A finally went for the kill. More of a sacrifice or shedding a skin in the most painful way possible.

He made her earn becoming a mutant again.
 

Rhaknar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
42,390
Cyclops was right motherfuckers.

Is it time to buy a new tablet and resub to MU? It might just be.
 

aLaxLuthor

Member
Oct 29, 2017
151
I'm super interested to see what it leads to. How does it all go bad? Civil War, outside pressures?
I'm guessing it will be something much more interesting than I can think of.

I can't wait to read it in about 6 months when it hits Marvel Unlimited.

Seriously, sounds like a great run.
Also, huge plug for MU for anyone who doesn't have it. I've caught up on so many stories since I got it. Decades of Daredevil & Iron Man, Immortal Hulk, XTinction Agenda, Secret Empire etc
I wish DC had a service that was as good.
 
OP
OP
MadLaughter

MadLaughter

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,070
Great issue. I don't know that I would call it a suicide though. She had to fight and got her ass kicked before A finally went for the kill. More of a sacrifice or shedding a skin in the most painful way possible.

He made her earn becoming a mutant again.

Right, I put the warning more because they sortve say that the Crucible was their way of avoiding mass depowered mutant suicide. And voluntary death in any flavor might really rub people the wrong way, just didn't want people to feel blindsided.
 

bluexy

Comics Enabler & Freelance Games Journalist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
14,507
I loved this issue, but it's so incredibly fucked. Here's what the crucible is. The mutants are -killing people- through a cult ritual involving beating them to near death while gaslighting them into believing it's good for them, and then executing with a freaking sword. And then they replace them with superpowered clones. The X-Men are villains now. Everything about this is so wrong, but super interesting to read. I can't even imagine where Hickman is going to go with this, but it'll be a ride finding out.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
92,987
Y'all doing all this with a motherfucker looking just like The Maker.....
 

Star-Lord

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,754
(CW: References to Suicide)

There is a thread dedicated to the X-men books since the status quo changed under Jonathan Hickman, but I feel like X-Men #7, which came out this week, is truly worth highlighting. Going to talk spoilers, and these details will probably reveal some key things about this awesome series that started with House of X and Powers of X last year.

Okay, here goes.

A little background: Mutants in the Marvel universe have had a rough go of it. A very rough go of it. It's been a common observation that groups like the Avengers and Fantastic 4 are not that far off from the X-men, but mutantkind faces incredible persecution from all sides that non-mutants don't have to deal with. Death robots created by the government, anti-mutant cults, religious extremists, everything. At this point, there have been multiple global near-extinction events that have hit the X-men. Genosha, where 16 million mutants were wiped out. M-Day, where Scarlet Witch depowered most of the remaining million. The terrigen mist clouds, lethal to mutants, that ravaged the globe and killed many more.

So, understandably, the mutants hit a breaking point. Long story short, they have accomplished two very important things, each that feeds into the other.

They have united.
RCO029_1568811166.jpg

On the island of Krakoa, a mutant state has formed, where all mutants are welcome. Xavier, Magneto, Apocalypse, Sinister, thousands more. Working towards a common cause.

Secondly, all mutants are immortal.
Dead-X-Men-Return-To-Life-Comic.jpg

Sort of. They can be killed, but through a combination of Cerebro, Mr. Sinister, reality warping mutants, healing mutants, and a mutant named Goldballs, they can be truly and genuinely resurrected. Not just clones.

Now you're caught up. Which brings us to X-Men #7. Krakoa, the mutant state, resurrection...New status quo means new moral quandaries. And this issue tackles a bunch of them.

The issue begins with a woman waking up in her bed on Krakoa, and finding family and friends waiting for her.

stD13bT.png


This is Melody Guthrie. Her ability was the power to create energy to let her fly, but she was one of the mutants who lost her powers on M-day, leaving her effectively human. This is the first mention of 'The Crucible', and we don't know any details at this point. The scene shifts, and we see Cyclops and Wolverine (in a bathrobe) drinking coffee in their matching recliners in their shared home on the moon, looking up at Earth through a massive window. They shoot the shit for a while, and Scott mentions that the Crucible is today. Wolverine says he isn't going, and sensing Scott has doubts about the ritual, explains that he doesn't love the choice but he isn't the guy to talk to about moral quandaries. He recommends that Scott go talk to a priest, and so... Scott tracks down Nightcrawler.

They talk briefly about a strange structure that Krakoa (the island) has created that no one can access except for Kurt, before the subject of the Crucible is again brought up.

ikhO1Ra.png


This is the setup for the rest of the issue Scott and Kurt and talking at length about how the nature of resurrection (And the fact that they can resurrect people to be healthier, younger, without traumatic memories if they choose...) is forcing them to ask questions that they now have to grapple with. Such as, if a mutant can choose to have their resurrection make them younger, why not...better? Why not with different powers? More powers? A more 'ideal' body?

As this is happening, we witness a former(?) villain named Exodus, telling the tale of the 'pretender', Scarlet Witch, and how she ripped the gifts from mutant kind. He's preaching this parable to a group of mutant children around a campfire. It's -very- culty.

LSw44v8.png


He asks the children if they know what the Crucible is. One of them responds: "I think it's where a broken mutant has to die so they can be an unbroken mutant."

We eventually return to Kurt and Scott, who are talking about how Kurt's religion reconciles with this new status quo. As they talk, we see Melody Guthrie, now wearing a crown of flowers, entering into some kind of arena. At the same time, Kurt and Scott join the massive crown of onlookers in the stands around the arena. She steels herself, and we see what the crucible truly is:

uOUshPq.png


It's Apocalypse, and a big fucking sword.

aovDZ6D.png


Essentially, the Crucible is the rite for depowered mutants to prove that they want to be a part of the new mutant society. There are a lot of different ways to read into this, and if you haven't read the issue I recommend checking it out to get the full context. I don't think that the issue is attempting to come up with a genuine answer to the questions they raise, because as Melody battles Apocalypse, Scott and Kurt do not suddenly have any revelations or become at peace with the idea of the Crucible. Additionally, they talk about the fact that mutants are now writing desires for their resurrections into their wills:

EAkAr7V.png


Apocalypse gives Melody a chance to surrender, be healed and remain a human, but she does not take it.

0vCiGHe.png


The issue cuts to a very different ceremony. Melody Guthrie emerges from the resurrection pod, and is welcomed back by a sea of mutants. Xavier, Storm, Magneto, Apocalypse.. She stands, and thanks Apocalypse. He tells her "What victory there is is yours and yours alone."

pMD06Ez.png


There's a lot of stuff in this issue that I'm still trying to think through. The Crucible concept is wild, and in a world where they cannot restore mutant powers unless they are fully reborn (and they will not bring them back unless they are dead) I imagine that there are more peaceful ways to manage the process. But the entire series up to this point has been about instilling a sense of pride and glory into mutantkind, and there have been multiple points in the myriad series where the mutants reveal that they are well and truly not fucking around. It's not about living together and hoping for the best, it's about living together and fighting for the best. Xavier's new vision is still coexistence, but no longer being shy about it.

The art is great, I had like 15 lines from the issue that were all contenders for the title, and it was really hard to narrow down which panels to include. I probably didn't narrow it down enough. Nightcrawler along with Apocalypse, Emma Frost, Kate Pryde and a few others have really thrived with Hickman's new status quo. This has been maybe my favorite run of Marvel comics in..a very long time, if not ever.

Lastly...

ml6z2elesw631.jpg


Cyclops was right.
I'm not reading the seires but sounds neat! Also what is he right about?
 
OP
OP
MadLaughter

MadLaughter

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,070
I'm super interested to see what it leads to. How does it all go bad? Civil War, outside pressures?
I'm guessing it will be something much more interesting than I can think of.

They have seeded dozens of different challenges for Krakoa.

-Cerebro is a key factor in resurrections, and they keep backups of all mutants on earth. If the backups are stolen/destroyed/accessed...
-The resurrection process relies on a lot of moving parts. If one of the five mutants dies, and their redundancies die...
-Sinister's DNA reserves are being used, he could REALLY fuck things up if he tampered or withheld
-Just overall there there are SO MANY mutant villains on the island. Playing nice for now, but...
-There is a ban on precogs, but Mystique has a very specific problem with this...
-The island is sentient, and what if...it doesn't want them anymore?
-Multiple world governments want to wipe this place off the face of the earth

And that's just the start. They've laid groundwork for so, so much that could happen. But I personally hope this stays the status quo for a long time.
 
OP
OP
MadLaughter

MadLaughter

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,070
I'm not reading the seires but sounds neat! Also what is he right about?

Cyclops over the past many many years has been evolving from 'boy scout' and 'good' leader of the x-men to a more militant, aggressive version as he has been hardened by all the hell that comes with trying to keep mutants alive. He's been becoming sort of a fusion between the Xavier and Magneto ideals, and that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Xavier, Wolverine, The Avengers, Beast, etc. Eventually he basically gotarrested and locked up because they thought he was...too militant? They sort of lost me at the time.

But now their entire utopia has been established on the principal of not taking anyone's shit anymore, which was what his whole thing basically was. Others can probably give a more nuanced answer.
 

Pedro

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,967
Nightcrawler starting a religion...oh no...

image_a.jpg
holy shit, i had forgotten about this so thank you for bringing it here.

I'm curious if the talk about the Wills is also what creates the characters in the upcoming Children of the Atom, and maybe what induces the creation of chimeras. This was an incredible issue.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,179
You making this thread reminded me the other day that I mentioned something like this being a possibility for Wind Dancer to get her powers back.

Other than the ritualistic suicide by combat, I figured there might be a process involved for a depowered mutant to die and be reborn to be restored.

Hickman, now is your time. Not only to give Wind Dancer her powers back because we need more airbenders, mend my soul and bring back those buses of kids killed by the Purifiers. On screen, too!

I still haven't recovered from this shit:

RCO005-1469310001.jpg
 

Deleted member 16365

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,127
Cyclops over the past many many years has been evolving from 'boy scout' and 'good' leader of the x-men to a more militant, aggressive version as he has been hardened by all the hell that comes with trying to keep mutants alive. He's been becoming sort of a fusion between the Xavier and Magneto ideals, and that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Xavier, Wolverine, The Avengers, Beast, etc. Eventually he basically gotarrested and locked up because they thought he was...too militant? They sort of lost me at the time. Even baddies like Sinister, Apocalypse, and Magneto are living peaceful among those they once set out to dominate.

But now their entire utopia has been established on the principal of not taking anyone's shit anymore, which was what his whole thing basically was. Others can probably give a more nuanced answer.

Nah you got it. Cy's philosophy was always "we got this, leave us alone" and no one ever did. Most of the dust ups the X-Men have been a part of have been because people won't stop fucking with them (Cap caused AvX, Inhumans caused Death of X, etc). Now that they're doing their own thing they're happy, peaceful, and thriving.

That is the people on the island. Domino and X-Force are not exactly following the "don't start none won't be none" policy.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,179
Great issue. I don't know that I would call it a suicide though. She had to fight and got her ass kicked before A finally went for the kill. More of a sacrifice or shedding a skin in the most painful way possible.

He made her earn becoming a mutant again.
She wanted to die and knew she was going to die by fighting. No different than suicide by cop. Except the cop is a 6000 year old pale gray mutant shapeshifter with super strength and alien technology grafted into his body for more powers.
 
Jun 17, 2019
2,182
There would be no way that Kurt would be okay with this. No way at all given what happened to him and how he got back to life. This is going to end badly because Sinister is a lying, cheating, scum-bag, and A is honestly a megalomaniac. I'm suprised Xavier and Magneto are going along with this at all, and that Scott isn't questioning it.
 

JJD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,495
I loved this issue, but it's so incredibly fucked. Here's what the crucible is. The mutants are -killing people- through a cult ritual involving beating them to near death while gaslighting them into believing it's good for them, and then executing with a freaking sword. And then they replace them with superpowered clones. The X-Men are villains now. Everything about this is so wrong, but super interesting to read. I can't even imagine where Hickman is going to go with this, but it'll be a ride finding out.

They are not clones. Hickman made that clear a couple times, they are being resurrected, it's the same soul.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
I'm definitely a believer in this new mutant cult. The X-Men are so fucking weird and cool that I fucking love it. The great thing about it is that we're still getting series like Marauders, New Mutants and Excalibur that keep the classic adventuring feel of the X-Men while all this insanity is going on. This might be the most well rounded and consistent X-Franchise era ever.
 
OP
OP
MadLaughter

MadLaughter

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,070
There would be no way that Kurt would be okay with this. No way at all given what happened to him and how he got back to life. This is going to end badly because Sinister is a lying, cheating, scum-bag, and A is honestly a megalomaniac. I'm suprised Xavier and Magneto are going along with this at all, and that Scott isn't questioning it.

House of X and Powers of X do some wild things to pretty solidly explain why now, suddenly, Magneto and Xavier have to go to the lengths they're going to at this point.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,586
Elements of everything were bound to repeat themselves. It's just now that they're united, things won't go to shit the same way.

They'll go to shit in new, unexpected, exciting ways.

I'm curious how it will come tumbling down. Because they obviously won't go back to a Pre-HoX/PoX state at the same time they probably don't want to stray too far from the roots of the X-Men.

Cause as everyone might not want to admit it... Whatever they do with the X-Men in the MCU will bleed over into the comics. It's inevitable.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
I think Mr Sinister has always been just a narcissist who wants attention and appreciation. And now he's getting all the praise of Xavier himself for all that DNA gathering. I bet you Sinister is completely satisfied on his throne twiddling his thumbs because he sees himself as having "won."
 
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OP
MadLaughter

MadLaughter

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,070
I think Mr Sinister has always been just a narcissist who wants attention and appreciation. And now he's getting all the praise of Xavier himself for all that DNA gathering. I bet you Sinister is completely satisfied on his throne twiddling his thumbs because he sees himself as having "won."

Yeah, surprisingly he's been causing like almost no problems from what I can tell. They've somehow found the equilibrium to keep Xavier, Magneto, Sinister and Apocalypse all happy.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,445
I loved this issue, but it's so incredibly fucked. Here's what the crucible is. The mutants are -killing people- through a cult ritual involving beating them to near death while gaslighting them into believing it's good for them, and then executing with a freaking sword. And then they replace them with superpowered clones. The X-Men are villains now. Everything about this is so wrong, but super interesting to read. I can't even imagine where Hickman is going to go with this, but it'll be a ride finding out.

Question: How will you feel if this isn't the story Hickman's telling?
 

bluexy

Comics Enabler & Freelance Games Journalist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
14,507
Question: How will you feel if this isn't the story Hickman's telling?
i don't need hickman to directly address the souls/clones argument in-text to enjoy it as it's read, so long as it continues to remain thematically cohesive. and if he does address it in-text, i'm comfortable riding out the roller coaster.
 

Yams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,840
So I haven't kept up. Is X-men stand-alone or should I read the other Hickman books
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
So I haven't kept up. Is X-men stand-alone or should I read the other Hickman books

Start with the 2 miniseries House of X and Powers of X (six issues each, recently collected in a hardcover) then you can move onto this X-Men series. New Mutants, Marauders, Excalibur and X-Force also branch out from HoX/PoX if you're interested in more traditional series.

Whatever you do, DO NOT, under any circumstance, read Fallen Angels.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,179
I'm curious how it will come tumbling down. Because they obviously won't go back to a Pre-HoX/PoX state at the same time they probably don't want to stray too far from the roots of the X-Men.

Cause as everyone might not want to admit it... Whatever they do with the X-Men in the MCU will bleed over into the comics. It's inevitable.
I don't think it'll bleed over quite as strongly given they're setting this up as a 10 year status quo. Elements of this might actually bleed into the MCU.

There might be blurbs of this being the plan that Xavier and Magneto were working towards before breaking apart due to ideology (which would make sense, as this is the explanation given for why they were combative for such a long time; Magneto started to have doubts about the plan once humanity increased the dickishness) and some other flavors that combine classic X-Men with this current run.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,179
How will Mystique destroy Krakoa?
Xavier and Magneto are using Mystique for their wetworks. She does so under the promise that they'll use their fancy shit to bring back Destiny, Mystique's lifelong friend/partner/spouse. They won't do it and continue to dangle that carrot in front of her because Moira McTaggart doesn't want precog or clairvoyant mutants on Krakoa.
 

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,827
Every time someone gives me logical reasons to like Cyclops
main-qimg-34b7897f50ad9f63360639ac39279601


Mutant persecution in the Marvel Universe was always an interesting concept but it never made a ton of sense to me in relation to the rest of the world. You got people high fiving Spider-Man on their way to an anti-mutant rally. Would anyone ever really know or care for the difference between a mutant and an enhanced human? Then you factor in the Inhumans and you start to wonder how anyone ever knows the difference.