WWI or WWII which war was more influential?

[MrMephistoX]

So I've gotten the history bug and started listening to Dan Carlin's: Hardcore History Podcast series on WWI a war I knew very little about save for the fact that it was sparked by the assassination of Arch Duke Franz Ferdinand and then every nation in Europe got dragged into it through a system of alliances. Oh and the stupidity of calvary charging a machine gun nest astride horses, mustard gas, trench warfare and the red barron.

What I wasn't prepared for was how much of a hell on earth it was for the soldiers: rotting corpses in the trenches with nowhere to bury them, living in pits etc.

It was way worse for Europe so just curious to get that perspective. IMHO I'd still vote WWII for everyday people but WWI was way more helish and inhumane for soldiers perhaps? Obviously the regime changes and state failures like the Russian Revolution still echo today.

 

[Midramble]

One was the first of it's kind, the other introduced nukes. Hard to say.

 

[iRAWRasaurus]

I would say ww1 since it pretty much is still affecting us today and it did set up ww2. Thus bringing us to the present.

 

[Nuclearaddict]

WW2 wouldn't have happened without WW1. We are where we are today, because of WW1.

 

[Deleted member 42055]

I mean from now on for as long as humans exist we will live with the fear and the capability to destroy ourselves in an instant .. so I'll say WW2

 

[Umbrella Carp]

WW2 doesn't happen without WW1. Also entire Empires that had stood for centuries fell during WW1.

 

[Tokyo_Funk]

WW1. World War 1 caused a lot of the financial and social-economical issues that led to WW2, including the debt Germany had to pay back that caused the depression of Germany. Hitler leveraged how unfair it was that Germany lost and pointed fingers to get the support he needed to justify another war.

 

[Xaszatm]

Well, there is a direct line between the Assasination of Franz Ferdinand and the creation of tentacle porn so I say WWI

 

[ThereAreFourNaan]

Both were enormously influential. I might give a nod to WW1 but only barely, as I think the collapse of the Russian Empire, the Hapsburg Empire and the Ottoman Empire were three major shockwaves that kept on giving. The tricky part is disentangling this from the effects of Ww2 because in many cases both impacted the same outcomes in important ways, like Indian independence for instance.

 

[Bluebot]

Your thread title, survey, and actual thread premise don't match.

 

[darkwing]

WW1, without it there would not be any WW2

 

[Xaszatm]

Also, the current mess in the Middle East? All the result of white folk carving up the Ottoman Empire without care.

 

[Acorn]

Depends on how you look at it, ww2 and nukes effectively ended the prospect of two huge countries directly engaging each other but ww1 was why ww2 happened.

There is a parallel universe where we didn't punish Germany so much with the Versailles treaty and ww2 didn't happen. Or atleast didn't have a European front but then again Stalin would've eventually done something.

What was the question again? Oh yeah probably 1 there is a case for 2 but I'm too lazy to make it.

 

[MrMephistoX]

Both were enormously influential. I might give a nod to WW1 but only barely, as I think the collapse of the Russian Empire, the Hapsburg Empire and the Ottoman Empire were three major shockwaves that kept on giving. The tricky part is disentangling this from the effects of Ww2 because in many cases both impacted the same outcomes in important ways, like Indian independence for instance.

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Yeah from a military standpoint lots of horrible weapons and civilian casualties and the holocaust make WWII seem like the obvious choice but holy shit more people died in the battle of verdun in one day than D-Day and empires fell, the Middle East got carved into what we see today and just Jesus at generals disregarding human lives of their own soldiers for their own egos gives WWI serious weight and without it probably no WWII or Cold War.

 

[MrMephistoX]

Your thread title, survey, and actual thread premise don't match.

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Wish I could edit it so the poll title matches the thread title...I started it earlier in the day.

 

[SweetNicole]

WWI caused WW2, but WW2 essentially setup the modern world order. I'd say 50/50.

 

[SweetNicole]

Wish I could edit it so the poll title matches the thread title...I started it earlier in the day.

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[CoolestSpot]

Like most franchises, the first one set ground work and was game changing but sequel went all in and doubled the tension. So I'd say WWII.

 

[Ogodei]

World War 2 did what World War 1 "set out" to do. It was the war to effectively end total interstate warfare, both by raising the stakes to the point where the costs would be too high and forging the UN.

 

[BeforeU]

WW1 led to WW2 so its obvious, not even debatable lol

 

[shaneo632]

WWII was the sequel so WWI.

 

[MrMephistoX]

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Lol thanks!

 

[Hollywood Duo]

It's all the same thing

 

[Rocket Man]

WW2 happened because of WW1, but the scope of WW2 was so massive and fucked up that most current geopolitical issues today can eventually be traced back to it

 

[Deleted member 31817]

WW1

partitioning of the middle east alone, let alone the treaty of versailles, arms race, LON etc.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

WW2 happened because of WW1, but the scope of WW2 was so massive and fucked up that most current geopolitical issues today can eventually be traced back to it

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The entire middle east debacle is bc of WW1 rn not 2. The Israeli-Palestine conflict started in the late 1800s then was officially started with the Balfour Declaration in.... drum roll...1917. Fall of the Ottoman empire, arab nationalism, sykes-picot agreement, denying a kurdish state and just generally creating mandates that foster sectarian bs and are drawn on imperial lines and not based on culture, religion or ethnicity.

Also not even related but the bolshevik revolution

 

[Deleted member 25600]

WW2 created a more lasting impact in terms of technology and turned the United States into a monstrous superpower.

So I vote 2, even though there wouldn't have been 2 without 1.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

WW2 created a more lasting impact in terms of technology and turned the United States into a monstrous superpower.

So I vote 2, even though there wouldn't have been 2 without 1.

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Is the US becoming a monstrous superpower really so signifcant? They were already an imperialist power for decades before then and for the rest of the regions substitute the US for the French or British.

 

[Anthony Hopkins]

I would say Ww2 it seeded the creation of nuclear weapons, rocket technology, Radar and tank design went through a revolution.
Also Turning making his enigma machine was a pretty big deal.

 

[APerfectOrganism]

If you want to get more first hand accounts of the horror of WW1, now better known as the forgotten war, read All Quiet on the Western Front and watch They Shall Not Grow Old. WW1 and the horrors that came out of it, are beyond "they lead to WW2". That is a gross oversimplification of a complicated, pointless, yet timely atrocity and breakdown of globalism and the nation state.

Many of the causes of WW1 are upon us today - the horrors of the war rewrote many of the Western perceptions of war, and for what may be the first time, led to a large movement of anti-war sentiment.

Some above also spoke about the war precipating the Russian revolution and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. And of course, then we get to the fact that the failure of the Treaty of Versailles and Trinanon, the failure of the League of Nations, and the continued assault of eugenics on the new frontiers of genetic science that we get to WW2.

All this notwithstanding, one can, and hopefully does, make the opposite argument. Really, this whole idea is silly - as both are infinitely affecting. It's just that one more often captures the public's conscious.

 

[Grug]

They're the same war. Just with a prolonged ceasefire in the middle where it was temporarily fought with economics.

 

[ThereAreFourNaan]

WW1 led to WW2 so its obvious, not even debatable lol

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The Franco-Prussian War led to WW1 but I doubt you'd see many argue it was more influential than WW1. It's open to debate for sure.

 

[Pagusas]

WW2's scale completely dwarfs WW1 in such a giant way I see no way of ignoring it

 

[FF Seraphim]

This is hard to choose. WW1 literally paved the way for WW2 to happen. However, the actions of WW2 decided the world order for over 70 years.

 

[Regulus Tera]

WWI is the one where military tactics got completely overrun, not to mention it is directly responsible for the geopolitical upheaval that led to WWII.

 

[FreeMufasa]

They're the same war. Just with a prolonged ceasefire in the middle where it was temporarily fought with economics.

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This is where I'm at. Like how we call the war in 1600s the Thirty Years' War, I can see these conflicts being called the Second Thirty Years' War in the future.

 

[joecanada]

I would say ww1 since it pretty much is still affecting us today and it did set up ww2. Thus bringing us to the present.

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This is my answer as well

 

[Masoyama]

WW2 wouldn't have happened without WW1. We are where we are today, because of WW1.

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Yup .this right here.

 

[Keldroc]

It's WW2. Yes, WW1 is a direct cause, but the decisions made during WW2 and the shifts in power that led to the US becoming a superpower are unique to that war, and influenced the rest of the century far more than anything that happened in WW1.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

It's WW2. Yes, WW1 is a direct cause, but the decisions made during WW2 and the shifts in power that led to the US becoming a superpower are unique to that war, and influenced the rest of the century far more than anything that happened in WW1.

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I asked earlier but how exactly is the US becoming more powerful more significant than all of the upheavals during and after WWI.

 

[Deleted member 25600]

Is the US becoming a monstrous superpower really so signifcant? They were already an imperialist power for decades before then and for the rest of the regions substitute the US for the French or British.

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WW2 eliminated all potential rivals and made the US the primary manufacturing economy in the world at the time, as most of the infrastructure in Europe and Asia was extremely damaged or destroyed. It directly created the 1950s golden age that Republicans love to look back on fondly.

And that's not even mentioning military growth and power.

 

[sibarraz]

I could be wrong, but I recall reading that the Versailles treaty wasnt really that harsh and that didnt fuck up Germany as much as people think, but that Nazis used it as propaganda to justify most of their politics

 

[Deleted member 31817]

I could be wrong, but I recall reading that the Versailles treaty wasnt really that harsh and that didnt fuck up Germany as much as people think, but that Nazis used it as propaganda to justify most of their politics

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Over 15 percent of Germany was unemployed in 1930

 

[Kill3r7]

It's WW2. Yes, WW1 is a direct cause, but the decisions made during WW2 and the shifts in power that led to the US becoming a superpower are unique to that war, and influenced the rest of the century far more than anything that happened in WW1.

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As you say, WWI set the groundwork for most of the significant events that took place during WWII and the rest of the century. The rise of Communism in Europe and Russia can be directly attributed to WWI. Essentially the political landscape that we witness today can all be traced back to WWI.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

As you say WW1 set the groundwork for most of the significant events that took place during WW2 and the rest of the century. The rise of Communism in Europe and Russua can be attributed to WW1.

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Yep, the cold war and the last 30 years of various ME conflicts can be traced back to WW1, not two.

 

[Deleted member 13798]

World War 1.

The extremely expensive podcast by Dan Carlin on Hardcore History about it open my eyes to that, and even in like 12 hours worth of material, that was only scratching the surface of what exactly was going on, and how most of those things lingered into present-day still.

It's WW2. Yes, WW1 is a direct cause, but the decisions made during WW2 and the shifts in power that led to the US becoming a superpower are unique to that war, and influenced the rest of the century far more than anything that happened in WW1.

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A lot of that can be traced back to World War 1, particularly with the United States being positioned as a superpower. It wouldn't come to full fruition until later, but it was already well underway

 

[Stitch AU]

Well, there is a direct line between the Assasination of Franz Ferdinand and the creation of tentacle porn so I say WWI

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I was going to say the same...well maybe not exactly the same lol. But the assassination of Franz Ferdinand may be one of if not the most important event in modern history. It sparked a chain of events that has completely shaped this world since that point.

 

[thediamondage]

I mean there really isn't any comparison, WW2 involved nearly every part of the globe, brought about the atomic age, involved the greatest horror mankind has EVER witnessed (holocaust) and up to this date is probably the biggest example of how cruel we can be to each other. WW1 was fairly isolated in Europe. There hasn't been a WW3 so far BECAUSE of WW2, whereas WW2 came a generation after WW1 so clearly the world hadn't absorbed that lesson yet.

 

[PeskyToaster]

I bet in the future they will merge into one war. Like the Hundred Years was

 

[danm999]

WW1 pretty much set the table for the rest of the Twentieth century, including the events of WW2 and the Cold War.

Eric Hobsbawm called the period beforehand the "Long Nineteenth Century", the period from the French Revolution in 1892 and 1914, and the "Short Twentieth Century", WW1 to the collapse of the USSR.

I think it's a pretty good inflection point.