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NihonTiger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,544
#1 in demo makes me think Punk did indeed help them siphon off viewers from other shows.

Might also be that, given the top 5, a lot of people went out on Wednesday night because nobody particularly ran away with it last night.

Either way, there's good numbers in that rating though the overall number might be lower than hoped for.
 

Lonewolf

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,900
Oregon
#1 show for the night
2nd highest demo rating in history
3rd highest rating in history

If people haven't ignored bonch00ski, just save yourself the headache. Trust everybody who has done so already, same shit different week.

Not bad for a show that had so many squash matches on it (Mox, Kingston, Allin vs. Wingmen, Black vs. Anderson) and a Dark main event quality match in Gunn Club vs. The Factory, and two botches in competitive matches (that bad injury to Matt Hardy and Red missing the moonsault) and a flat ending. Can't be mad at it (I wouldn't have booked this show this way, but hey, I'm not the booker).
 

Blah

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,603
#1 in demo makes me think Punk did indeed help them siphon off viewers from other shows.

Might also be that, given the top 5, a lot of people went out on Wednesday night because nobody particularly ran away with it last night.

Either way, there's good numbers in that rating though the overall number might be lower than hoped for.

Yeah, if you look at the numbers the 18-34 is actually flat but the increase in 18-49 and 25-54 (and 50+) is big. That perfectly aligns with who would be a Punk fan: people over 25 but mostly in their late 30s+. Coincidentally, that is also The Challenge's prime demo, so the battle rages on.

Not bad for a show that had so many squash matches on it (Mox, Kingston, Allin vs. Wingmen, Black vs. Anderson) and a Dark main event quality match in Gunn Club vs. The Factory, and two botches in competitive matches (that bad injury to Matt Hardy and Red missing the moonsault) and a flat ending. Can't be mad at it (I wouldn't have booked this show this way, but hey, I'm not the booker).

For better or worse, Tony seems to just book according to how he wants to book. Usually I'm super into it but I would say this week was a let down booking-wise on a week where I wouldn't expect one.

He seemed to want to get every name or face a WWE fan would recognize against new talent (Hardy vs OC to open is a perfect example), so I understand the logic, but definitely a weird show.
 

BoboBrazil

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,765
Not bad for a show that had so many squash matches on it (Mox, Kingston, Allin vs. Wingmen, Black vs. Anderson) and a Dark main event quality match in Gunn Club vs. The Factory, and two botches in competitive matches (that bad injury to Matt Hardy and Red missing the moonsault) and a flat ending. Can't be mad at it (I wouldn't have booked this show this way, but hey, I'm not the booker).
I'd really like to know what the thought process behind the booking of this show was, because next week's looks so far superior to this one, but this one is the one that had all the eyes on it.
 

Vaskie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,513
Am I wrong?

Christian
Andrade
Malakai
CM Punk

They've been #1 in the demo and overall before them and nothing much has changed since you took on all that payroll….and now you're gonna add Daniel Bryan and Adam Cole possibly?

The booking stays the same, the style of matches stays the same, you add all this talent and the ratings stay the same.

Something other than talent needs to change.

You have a problem..

Maybe take a break from the thread :/
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
47,443
To look at things positively, AEW is not in the business of one week rating pops. Even Friday's Rampage, while a nice feather in their cap, doesn't mean much in the long term.

I think one of the best examples of AEW's long term strategy paying off came in the form of the July 21 Dynamite:



Insane number, and look at the card:

Chris Jericho defeats Shawn Spears (w/Tully Blanchard) (10:59)
Doc Gallows (w/Karl Anderson) defeats Frankie Kazarian (6:27)
Darby Allin (w/Sting) defeats Wheeler Yuta (w/Orange Cassidy) (4:23)
Dr. Britt Baker DMD (w/Rebel) (c) defeats Nyla Rose (w/Vickie Guerrero) (12:07)
Orange Cassidy defeats The Blade (w/The Bunny) (8:45)
Lance Archer (w/Jake Roberts) defeats Jon Moxley (c) (13:24)

nothing that special, no crazy debuts or appearances being hyped up. Just a well built show with solid star power, and singles matches that felt important (kinda the antithesis of last night's card lol). That drew 1.148m.

lets see what happens next time a similar card is built up, but this time featuring Punk and Danielson.
 

Violence Jack

Drive-in Mutant
Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,156
I'd really like to know what the thought process behind the booking of this show was, because next week's looks so far superior to this one, but this one is the one that had all the eyes on it.

Knowing how TK operates, he probably wanted eyes on the up and coming talent. But usually just before every PPV there's one episode of Dynamite that seems to feature some of the lesser known guys and gals against established talent.
 

BoboBrazil

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,765
Knowing how TK operates, he probably wanted eyes on the up and coming talent. But usually just before every PPV there's one episode of Dynamite that seems to feature some of the lesser known guys and gals against established talent.
I feel like sometimes they just focus on the wrong up and coming talent. Brock Anderson isn't ever going to become anything. The Factory isn't going to become anything. You have people like Dante Martin, Private Party, Sammy Guevara, Wardlow, Thunder Rosa, and Tay Conti who are the future of the company, but they were nowhere to be seen.
 

Blah

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,603
Knowing how TK operates, he probably wanted eyes on the up and coming talent. But usually just before every PPV there's one episode of Dynamite that seems to feature some of the lesser known guys and gals against established talent.

Yeah, if you run down the card you see how many ex-WWE wrestlers were used to put eyes on younger and/or lesser known talent to a potential WWE audience.

Matt Hardy vs OC
Jericho face-off with MJF
CM Punk promo against Darby
Moxley vs Wingmen (with emphasis on showcasing Darby and Eddie) then followed up with Daniel Garcia
Christian face-off with Omega
Billy Gunn Club vs Nightmare Factory
Black vs Arn Anderson's clone baby

Like I mentioned a bit ago, there's a logic, but I would have prefer showcase matches for the young wrestlers instead. I get why they combine them with known talent since we see all the time how people say they don't watch because they don't know who the AEW wrestlers are. Bobo mentions a ton of people I would have loved to see though instead of some of the ones we got.
 

Lonewolf

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,900
Oregon
Yeah, if you run down the card you see how many ex-WWE wrestlers were used to put eyes on younger and/or lesser known talent to a potential WWE audience.

Matt Hardy vs OC
Jericho face-off with MJF
CM Punk promo against Darby
Moxley vs Wingmen (with emphasis on showcasing Darby and Eddie) then followed up with Daniel Garcia
Christian face-off with Omega
Billy Gunn Club vs Nightmare Factory
Black vs Arn Anderson's clone baby

Like I mentioned a bit ago, there's a logic, but I would have prefer showcase matches for the young wrestlers instead. I get why they combine them with known talent since we see all the time how people say they don't watch because they don't know who the AEW wrestlers are. Bobo mentions a ton of people I would have loved to see though instead of some of the ones we got.

It's just "Gunn Club" as they all share the last name. ;) That match also featured Tall Paul on commentary. Personally I would have preferred they had, for example, Private Party & Angelico vs. Moxley & co. rather than The Wingmen, but it seems like someone likes the Moxley/Kingston/Allin (w/Sting) grouping and that's kind of a hard group to book a competitive trios against. Maybe give The Factory some wins first and then feed them to that team? Personally, I would have put the tag team match on last and sent Lee Johnson out with a chair to give Black a reason to powder, if I was forced to book this particular set of matches.
 

Henry Hank

Member
Jul 25, 2019
5,559
This was never likely to be the new high watermark for Dynamite ratings. The Arthur Ashe show is the one that could do that. If they had debuted Punk on Dynamite it may have, but once that was already done, there were always bound to be a chunk of viewers who only tuned in for Punk's debut but didn't watch beyond that.

To be clear, last night's show is one of the two or three best performing Dynamites of their history. They did great. Mission accomplished. The only show to definitevly do better is the very first show, and the only other one neck and neck with this one is Blood and Guts. That's great company
 

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
37,146
This was never likely to be the new high watermark for Dynamite ratings. The Arthur Ashe show is the one that could do that. If they had debuted Punk on Dynamite it may have, but once that was already done, there were always bound to be a chunk of viewers who only tuned in for Punk's debut but didn't watch beyond that.

To be clear, last night's show is one of the two or three best performing Dynamites of their history. They did great. Mission accomplished. The only show to definitevly do better is the very first show, and the only other one neck and neck with this one is Blood and Guts. That's great company

Especially for a show with "a weaker card." People trying to spin this number as some sort of negative are deluding themselves. Could they have done more with a stronger card? Maybe. But TK's been good at sticking to the plan. I thought last night's show had some very smart booking decisions from a "bring in the casuals" perspective.
 

dennett316

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,987
Blackpool, UK
I think it says a lot when Dynamite has a weaker show it really tends to stand out, unlike WWE, where weak shows (especially on Monday nights) are the norm. Bad timing for one, I admit, but they tend to rebound from them pretty well.
 

Violence Jack

Drive-in Mutant
Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,156
Oof that drop after Punk. Still, it stayed over a million the entire episode and almost stayed over 600k in the demo throughout even with the bland stuff towards the end.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,135
Chile
Yeah, I think that's the case. At the end of the day, featuring more of the roster is undoubtedly better than rematch after rematch after rematch.

It's not really a bad thing, I mean, you can also look at it as a way of promoting new talent the day someone's who has pretty much legend status is arriving to the show. Double edged sword perhaps, but if there is something I do like a lot about AEW is that they are taking those chances
 

BoboBrazil

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,765
Everytime Dark enhancement talent was on screen the rating went down. If they would have done competitive matchups they probably would have done their best rating ever
 

Henry Hank

Member
Jul 25, 2019
5,559
AEW should follow their process rather than focus on maximizing a one week rating bump. It isn't like we don't have some more big debuts coming up. This wasn't the only chance to pull in new viewers.

Besides, that card had Moxley, Darby, Lucha Bros, Orange Cassidy, and Malakai Black wrestling and Omega, Bucks, Jericho, MJF, and Britt Baker appearing. That hard featured a lot of AEW's top acts.
 

PaulLFC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,177
Happy to see the ratings stayed fairly consistent and didn't drop substantially after Punk's promo. Hopefully bodes well for next week.
 

Lonewolf

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
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Oct 27, 2017
3,900
Oregon


That's a poorly booked card alright. Seriously, I like the kid, but why was Brock Anderson in the main event again? Flip places between Gunn Club vs. Factory with Lucha Bros vs. Blonds, bump Black vs. Anderson back a space and main with the tag match and they might have had a slightly higher rating and the show wouldn't have felt flat at the end.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
47,443
I feel like sometimes they just focus on the wrong up and coming talent. Brock Anderson isn't ever going to become anything. The Factory isn't going to become anything. You have people like Dante Martin, Private Party, Sammy Guevara, Wardlow, Thunder Rosa, and Tay Conti who are the future of the company, but they were nowhere to be seen.

yup

there's your top, a-tier talent, which I feel they're able to strike a good balance on when it comes to tv time/exposure... but then there's a HUGE group of b-tier talent on the cusp of stardom. one way or another, whether it's in other promotions, dark, BTE, dark side of the ring, or just taking advantage of the tv time they've been given, they've managed to connect with the audience. right now, AEW has such a huge amount of talent in this tier that they couldn't possibly hope to get them all on tv through dynamite and rampage alone. probably not even over two weeks of tv!

then... there's a tier BELOW that, where, as you've said... don't see too much potential. at least, not yet. not writing them off entirely, but they're simply not dynamite or rampage ready. it ain't right to bump some of the talent off the show to make room for, say, qt or billy gunn's kids. let the super green talent continue to develop on the dark shows, or loan them out to impact or nwa or even new japan to get experience. once they generate some buzz, maybe then you bring them onto tv.

there were too many of those c-tier talents on the show last night, no doubt about it.
 

Descendant

Fallen Guardian
Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,111
I mean how else are you going to build young stars, if they don't get put in prime positions on the card? Lets be honest here...Brock Anderson was not in the "main event", Black vs The Nightmare Family was.

They used Black's momentum to try and put a spotlight on a young talent, that isnt over yet. Lee Johnson coming at the end, does the same for him. Obviously this isn't top level talent vs top level talent, but you can't keep doing that all the time, or you end up in that vicious cycle where you get stuck seeing the same talent wrestle each other over...and over.
 

Henry Hank

Member
Jul 25, 2019
5,559
I mean how else are you going to build young stars, if they don't get put in prime positions on the card? Lets be honest here...Brock Anderson was not in the "main event", Black vs The Nightmare Family was.

They used Black's momentum to try and put a spotlight on a young talent, that isnt over yet. Lee Johnson coming at the end, does the same for him. Obviously this isn't top level talent vs top level talent, but you can't keep doing that all the time, or you end up in that vicious cycle where you get stuck seeing the same talent wrestle each other over...and over.

Yup. They've always booked to make everyone seem important. They should keep that approach even if it doesn't land for everyone. It's not a good idea to set your audience up to perceive a chunk of the roster as not being worthwhile at all.
 

Violence Jack

Drive-in Mutant
Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,156
I mean how else are you going to build young stars, if they don't get put in prime positions on the card? Lets be honest here...Brock Anderson was not in the "main event", Black vs The Nightmare Family was.

They used Black's momentum to try and put a spotlight on a young talent, that isnt over yet. Lee Johnson coming at the end, does the same for him. Obviously this isn't top level talent vs top level talent, but you can't keep doing that all the time, or you end up in that vicious cycle where you get stuck seeing the same talent wrestle each other over...and over.

Do what they did with people like Fuego, Red Velvet, and Brandon Cutler. They let those people build themselves on Dark and Elevation to the point that they became recognizable, developed their characters while improving in the ring.
 

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
37,146
I feel we got spoiled with the July specials and expected those same levels of match cards moving forward, and it just wasn't going to happen. Arthur Ashe should give us something like that though and deliver a top two Dynamite rating when it does.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,599
Brock Anderson is honestly David Flair levels of undeserved nepotism I really hope he was only around to be fed to Black.
 

SecondNature

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,189
The card sucked

put low end guys into their own feuds. They dont need to be paired solely with better guys.

put better women on the card and stop making the division just about britt baker. Get hayter away from baker.

cm punk was also wwe-styled shoved down our throat with all the LOOK HOW EMOTIONAL THIS IS junk. Hes supposed to feud with darby but darby has a random match instead.

same with kingston and miro. One sided mentions at best. The card made no sense.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
47,443
I mean how else are you going to build young stars, if they don't get put in prime positions on the card? Lets be honest here...Brock Anderson was not in the "main event", Black vs The Nightmare Family was.

They used Black's momentum to try and put a spotlight on a young talent, that isnt over yet. Lee Johnson coming at the end, does the same for him. Obviously this isn't top level talent vs top level talent, but you can't keep doing that all the time, or you end up in that vicious cycle where you get stuck seeing the same talent wrestle each other over...and over.

It's not the worst problem to have, and the intentions are all good... but I still think there's a balance to strike between featuring super green talent vs a metric TON of ready made stars that are already on the roster and feel underutilized.

Dark, Dark Elevation and other promotions is how you get that talent over, not your TV. They're quite literally not ready for prime time. We also shouldn't underestimate the average AEW viewer. This is the audience that popped huge for Nick fuckin Gage. If a Brock Anderson goes out and has a great match with Ishii or cuts a sick promo, they will catch wind of that and the crowd reaction will reflect that the next time he pops up on TV.
 

SirFritz

Member
Jan 22, 2018
2,096
yup

there's your top, a-tier talent, which I feel they're able to strike a good balance on when it comes to tv time/exposure... but then there's a HUGE group of b-tier talent on the cusp of stardom. one way or another, whether it's in other promotions, dark, BTE, dark side of the ring, or just taking advantage of the tv time they've been given, they've managed to connect with the audience. right now, AEW has such a huge amount of talent in this tier that they couldn't possibly hope to get them all on tv through dynamite and rampage alone. probably not even over two weeks of tv!

then... there's a tier BELOW that, where, as you've said... don't see too much potential. at least, not yet. not writing them off entirely, but they're simply not dynamite or rampage ready. it ain't right to bump some of the talent off the show to make room for, say, qt or billy gunn's kids. let the super green talent continue to develop on the dark shows, or loan them out to impact or nwa or even new japan to get experience. once they generate some buzz, maybe then you bring them onto tv.

there were too many of those c-tier talents on the show last night, no doubt about it.
I totally agree. They seem to often have the A guys on TV and quite often these C guys but never the B guys. People like Sammy, Starks, Hobbs, Dark Order, Best Friends, Santana, Ortiz, Blade are the guys they should be putting on TV more to make them into big stars. But a lot of these guys don't wrestle that often, especially not in singles matches.
 

PaulLFC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,177
I feel we got spoiled with the July specials and expected those same levels of match cards moving forward, and it just wasn't going to happen. Arthur Ashe should give us something like that though and deliver a top two Dynamite rating when it does.
I do agree we can't expect PPV quality cards every week. I'd just assumed they would have wanted to have one this week to capitalise on the big Punk interest after Rampage. I was surprised at the card we got this week when next week looks a lot stronger on paper, but thankfully it still did great in the ratings. Hopefully they can retain any new viewers that watched now, that's the main thing.
 

plagiarize

It's not a loop. It's a spiral.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,668
Cape Cod, MA
I do agree we can't expect PPV quality cards every week. I'd just assumed they would have wanted to have one this week to capitalise on the big Punk interest after Rampage. I was surprised at the card we got this week when next week looks a lot stronger on paper, but thankfully it still did great in the ratings. Hopefully they can retain any new viewers that watched now, that's the main thing.
If the teases are true, there could be more big stuff less than two weeks away. For a 'regular' dynamite with a weak card to pull their third best rating (ie ahead of most of the special dynamites we got recently) definitely shows Punk's a ratings draw.

Next we shall find out if he's a PPV draw. And what happens after All Out... well we shall wait and see I guess.
 

GatsGatsby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,282
West Columbia, SC
Who said they were excited? It's just "the thing they've always had on".

I can attest to that. My mother is 69 and watches Raw and Smackdown every week. Granted she switches over to Everybody Loves Raymond or whatever channel is doing a Law and Order or Criminal Minds marathon during commerical breaks. She's absolutely bored by WWE and prefers AEW but she still watches because thats what we've always done.
 

Descendant

Fallen Guardian
Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,111
Do what they did with people like Fuego, Red Velvet, and Brandon Cutler. They let those people build themselves on Dark and Elevation to the point that they became recognizable, developed their characters while improving in the ring.

Fuego was a combination of the Sammy Vlog and being a loveable loser on Dark & Elevation. He has so far been the exception to the rule. Red Velvet got more recognizable, because she was a part of that big time match with Shaq.

Brandon definitely didn't get over, because of Dark. He got over being the lacky to the Heel Elite on all of the main shows, and being great at it. Most people who get over is due to being on Dynamite, and now Rampage as well.

Look at Dante Martin, Dante has been killing it on Dark for months, but the crowd still didn't care for him until his star making performance on Dynamite.

You have to give the young guys a chance on the main show, even if they aren't over yet, how else will they get better/over?
 

Valkyr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,948
I don't really think the live vs not moves the needle much. It hasn't for Dynamite in the past.

Great number for Rampage though for that time slot.
 

BoboBrazil

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,765
Bad number in that the audience that tuned in for Punk didn't stay the next week. Good for the time slot though.
 

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
37,146


Was hoping Rampage would be in the 800k-900k range after Punk's debut, but #1 on cable and a strong demo number are both good signs, especially with it being #1 ON THE NIGHT including ahead of shows that began at 7pm or 8pm on a Friday.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
47,443
yeah the fact that it was #1 for the night and beat nfl pre-season is nuts

wrestling now owns monday, wednesday and friday nights lol
 
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