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WTF. PS5 can’t display RGB 4:4:4 like PS4 Pro in all frequencies, stuck with YUV422/420.

flipswitch

flipswitch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,959
Is this correct?

Why can't it do RGB 4:4:4 like my Pro at 60hz and at all other frequencies.


is this come kind of bug?

forgot to add in HDR. Could mods please add that to the title. Thanks.
 
Kromeo

Kromeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,872
I thought this was just for 4k 120hz?

In the settings it says it's outputting 4k 60hz in RGB
 
Samaritan

Samaritan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,697
Tacoma, Washington
I'm wondering the same thing. Even over HDMI 2.0b my PS4 Pro was able to output at 4K/60Hz RGB.

EDIT: I should specify that this is after disabling HDR, where there should be enough bandwidth over HDMI 2.0 to support RGB.
 
OP
OP
flipswitch

flipswitch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,959
ItsTonyB said:
I think it does it regardless as it starts 60hz even on 30fps games. The only time I've ever seen it change on pro or ps5 is when playoff bluray out changes to 24hz
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I'm using the Pro cable with my PS5 since my setup is only 2.0. Would it make any difference if I used the supplied cable with PS5?

I understand that 60hz is in YUV with HDR, but I'm getting all other frequencies, including 30hz in YUV. That wasnt an issue with my Pro.

so it's a bug?
 

Deleted member 23046

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,876
Try with the PS5 cable just in case, and need to activate high-bandwith on all port of your TV, but even with that not all port are necessarily equal (just try them all).
 
OP
OP
flipswitch

flipswitch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,959
Manfred said:
Try with the PS5 cable just in case, and need to activate high-bandwith on all port of your TV, but even with that not all port are necessarily equal (just try them all).
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I'm running through an AVR. My AVR is using the "enhanced" feature in HDMI. Exactly same as my Pro.


When I turn off HDR on the PS5 I can bet HDR, but with it on its YUV.
 

Sprat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,684
England
flipswitch said:
I'm using the Pro cable with my PS5 since my setup is only 2.0. Would it make any difference if I used the supplied cable with PS5?

I understand that 60hz is in YUV with HDR, but I'm getting all other frequencies, including 30hz in YUV. That wasnt an issue with my Pro.

so it's a bug?
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I'm not sure to be honest. I'm using the Pro cable too.

But with the ps5 forcing everything into hdr I think it will always be YUV unless using a 2.1 TV.

The only way around it is to disable hdr when playing non hdr games.
 
OP
OP
flipswitch

flipswitch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,959
Lowrys said:
www.resetera.com

Sony PS5 HDMI 2.1 Bandwidth is Currently Capped at 32Gbps (vs Xbox Series X 40Gbps) News

This will be updated.
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com
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Isn't that just regarding HDMI 2.1 only? My issue is with HDMI 2.0.

HDMI 2.0 Image Details

We now turn to a 4K HDR monitor equipped with HDMI 2.0. We connected the PS5 using the same bundled HDMI 2.1 cable. Here the situation is clearer. Due to HDMI bandwidth limitations, the PS5 switches even the UI to YUV422 HDR instead of RGB HDR. The 4K 120Hz setting is gone, replaced by a max 4K 60Hz. It seems that HDR content renders in either YUV422 or even YUV420 to save bandwidth, while non-HDR content is YUV422 exclusively. Again, not a big deal, as most games are just fine in 4:2:2, and streaming apps usually go for 4:2:0 to reduce bandwidth consumption for obvious reasons.

By comparison, the Xbox Series X appears fine to run everything at 10-bit color depth with no subsampling, although checking the 4:2:2 support box is advised to avoid artifacts and enable compression. The PS5 doesn't seem to offer such an option, but does provide a lot more information on what's happening with the image.
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cooldawn

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,449
Lowrys said:
www.resetera.com

Sony PS5 HDMI 2.1 Bandwidth is Currently Capped at 32Gbps (vs Xbox Series X 40Gbps) News

This will be updated.
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com
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I know people rely on Matt for information but how would he know if this is an issue Sony is actively looking to patch? There's a difference between 'by design' and a bug.

For instance, a couple of days ago Jim Ryan didn't feel storage was an issue (transferring PS5 game to cold storage). A major quality of life change that would greatly benefit everyone.

I hate the way PS5 controls HDR. My PS4 Pro also used 4K 60Hz RGB. Wish PS5 'switched' when necessary rather than force a washed-out screen.
 

Joker22Hero

Member
Nov 3, 2020
43
Does it actually visibly matter? Not trying to attack the validity of the thread, but I'm curious what it really means
 
Ogawa-san

Ogawa-san

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,686
I have a Samsung TV with 3 normal HDMI 2.0 ports and one that, while still 2.0, has some extra bandwidth (~24Gbps). My PS5 only reaches HDR 4:4:4 on that port, for the others it's limited to 4:2:2.
 
Muffin

Muffin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,342
1. This doesnt visibly matter unless you use your PS5 with a 4k 120hz monitor/tv close to your face and read a lot of texts. So unless you like to hang out in the menus right in front of your face, you wont notice a difference.
2. As in the thread linked above, while its currently capped at 32 Gbps, someone posted that the chipset is theoretically capable of more. So I imagine it gets patched.

This isnt as big a deal as the thread title makes it sound.

Edit: The OPs issue seems to be with Hdmi 2.0? That just seems like a bug to me or there is another issue going on.
 
Muffin

Muffin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,342
@OP the Pro cable is 2.0, right? Then its no wonder. A 2.0 cable doesnt have the bandwith for 4k 60hz HDR and 4:4:4 at 10 bit at once. That exceeds the spec. At least I'm pretty sure. Try with the 2.1 cable.
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
8,277
My PS4 Pro always switched to 422 in HDR, but otherwise was in RGB. PS5 does the same at 60hz on a HDMI 2.0 input. If you have an HDMI 2.1 input the PS5 will do RGB 12 bit in HDR at 60hz, and 422 at 120hz. The only difference now is that the PS5 is always in HDR unless you turn it off manually.
 
Pheonix

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
Wait a min.. so your issue is that the PS5 isn't supporting 4K/60Hz RGB when connected to a display using "HDMI 2.0" cables?
 
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OP
OP
flipswitch

flipswitch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,959
Muffin said:
@OP the Pro cable is 2.0, right? Then its no wonder. A 2.0 cable doesnt have the bandwith for 4k 60hz HDR and 4:4:4 at 10 bit at once. That exceeds the spec. At least I'm pretty sure. Try with the 2.1 cable.
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Pheonix said:
Wait a min.. so your issue is that the PS5 isn't supporting 4K/60Hz RGB when connected to a display using "HDMI 2.0" cables?
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My tv is HDMI 2.0, I understand that was HDMI 2.0 you can't do 4K/RGB at 60hz, however it appears that all other frequencies are in YUV, such as 30hz when in HDR mode, and so on.

Here's a screenshot.


XE3VBjf.jpg

Is this image showing YUV in 24,35,30hz, or is YUV only for 60hz mode?
 
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Pheonix

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
flipswitch said:
My tv is HDMI 2.0, I understand that was HDMI 2.0 you can't do 4K/RGB at 60hz, however it appears that all other frequencies are in YUV, such as 30hz when in HDR mode, and so on.

Here's a screenshot.


XE3VBjf.jpg

Is this image showing YUV in 24,35,30hz, or is YUV only for 60hz mode?
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From that image... You are getting YUV422 with HDR that can drop to YUV420 in everything up to 60Hz if using HDR. But everything non-HDR is at your default output of YUV422.

I believe that this simply means that when the PS5 detects it's connected to a non-HDMI 2.1 device, it revets to a max YUV422 out. But I also believe that HDMI 2.0 can't handle RGB444 even at 60Hz.
 
the-pi-guy

the-pi-guy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,276
flipswitch said:
My tv is HDMI 2.0, I understand that was HDMI 2.0 you can't do 4K/RGB at 60hz, however it appears that all other frequencies are in YUV, such as 30hz when in HDR mode, and so on.

Here's a screenshot.


XE3VBjf.jpg

Is this image showing YUV in 24,35,30hz, or is YUV only for 60hz mode?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
YUV is only in 50/60Hz mode. There isn't a YUV attached to the 24, 25, 30hz:
24, 25, 30, 50(YUV), 60(YUV)
They only specify it for the latter two.
 

TitanicFall

Member
Nov 12, 2017
8,277
flipswitch said:
My tv is HDMI 2.0, I understand that was HDMI 2.0 you can't do 4K/RGB at 60hz, however it appears that all other frequencies are in YUV, such as 30hz when in HDR mode, and so on.

Here's a screenshot.


XE3VBjf.jpg

Is this image showing YUV in 24,35,30hz, or is YUV only for 60hz mode?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It says it supports 4k 60hz at RGB right at the bottom (non-HDR). If you have HDR on it supports all those frequencies under HDR.
 
ShapeGSX

ShapeGSX

Member
Nov 13, 2017
5,228
Muffin said:
@OP the Pro cable is 2.0, right? Then its no wonder. A 2.0 cable doesnt have the bandwith for 4k 60hz HDR and 4:4:4 at 10 bit at once. That exceeds the spec. At least I'm pretty sure. Try with the 2.1 cable.
Click to expand...
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Consoles don't know if a cable has the bandwidth for HDMI 2.0 or 2.1. The cable is not the culprit.
 
ShapeGSX

ShapeGSX

Member
Nov 13, 2017
5,228
Ogawa-san said:
I have a Samsung TV with 3 normal HDMI 2.0 ports and one that, while still 2.0, has some extra bandwidth (~24Gbps). My PS5 only reaches HDR 4:4:4 on that port, for the others it's limited to 4:2:2.
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So if a port only supports 18Gbps (HDMI 2.0 max bandwidth) the PS5 will limit the chroma subsampling to 422? Well that's stupid.

Edit: actually, 4K 60Hz at 10 bit with 4:4:4 requires 20.05Gbps. So that actually makes sense. HDMI 2.0 bandwidth won't support that.

But if you tried 1080p 60 10bit and it still forced you to 4:2:2, that would be stupid. :)
 
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Jedi2016

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,701
Can you actually see a visible difference, or do you just not like the number being big enough?
 
pswii60

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,673
The Milky Way
Muffin said:
@OP the Pro cable is 2.0, right? Then its no wonder. A 2.0 cable doesnt have the bandwith for 4k 60hz HDR and 4:4:4 at 10 bit at once. That exceeds the spec. At least I'm pretty sure. Try with the 2.1 cable.
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The console doesn't know which cable you're using, hence PS5 has a "4k video transfer rate" option in the settings, so you can lower chroma for lower bitrate cables/devices.

In that setting, at 60hz, default = 444, -1 = 422, -2 = 420. 120hz is max 422 on PS5 due to the 32gbps limit.

Source: my own extensive testing of the different options :)
 
headspawn

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,619
cooldawn said:
I know people rely on Matt for information but how would he know if this is an issue Sony is actively looking to patch? There's a difference between 'by design' and a bug.
Click to expand...
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He said that he was told with good confidence that the hardware is capable of full speed required, therefore it seems more likely than not that it will be updated; hell, the box says "8k" and does not support that yet either, the best guess is that it will be updated to support this as well. So we do know for a fact that this part of the system is going to be updated "Soony", this has a good chance of being updated as well and IF it isn't, it is not for the fact that the hardware isn't capable.. I think that was the reasoning he was going with.

www.laptopmag.com

PS5 to output 8K content in future update, Sony says

Sony is working on a software update to enable 8K on PS5
www.laptopmag.com www.laptopmag.com
 
RivalGT

RivalGT

Member
Dec 13, 2017
6,399
PS4 Pro does RGB at 4k60, but not 4k 60 HDR with RGB as it's a limitation of HDMI 2.0. PS5 can do 4k 60 HDR RGB, it's when you enable 4k 120hz that you lose RGB. Also your TV has to support HDMI 2.1 if you want RGB 4k 60 or Rgb 4k 120. If you have an AV receiver, then that too has to support HDMI 2.1. PS5 will likely get updated to support the full bandwidth of its chip, so that will fix any issues anyone on HDMI 2.1 may be having. If your still on HDMI 2.0, then you will never see 4k 60 HDR with RGB. HDMI 2.1 is a hardware feature, it's not just about having a 2.1 cable. It's why Sony and MS can advertise 8K and 4k 120hz, it's because the hardware supports it.
 
RivalGT

RivalGT

Member
Dec 13, 2017
6,399
flipswitch said:
My tv is HDMI 2.0, I understand that was HDMI 2.0 you can't do 4K/RGB at 60hz, however it appears that all other frequencies are in YUV, such as 30hz when in HDR mode, and so on.

Here's a screenshot.


XE3VBjf.jpg

Is this image showing YUV in 24,35,30hz, or is YUV only for 60hz mode?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Did you try disabling HDR? HDMI 2.0 doesn't support RGB at 4k 60hz. At 4k 60 hz with no HDR you should be able to get RGB. Also PS5 has HDR on at all times unless you disable it.
 

bes.gen

Member
Nov 24, 2017
3,354
flipswitch said:
My tv is HDMI 2.0, I understand that was HDMI 2.0 you can't do 4K/RGB at 60hz, however it appears that all other frequencies are in YUV, such as 30hz when in HDR mode, and so on.

Here's a screenshot.


XE3VBjf.jpg

Is this image showing YUV in 24,35,30hz, or is YUV only for 60hz mode?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
screenshot clearly states yuv for only 50hz and 60hz at hdr.
 
Muffin

Muffin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,342
pswii60 said:
The console doesn't know which cable you're using, hence PS5 has a "4k video transfer rate" option in the settings, so you can lower chroma for lower bitrate cables/devices.

In that setting, at 60hz, default = 444, -1 = 422, -2 = 420. 120hz is max 422 on PS5 due to the 32gbps limit.

Source: my own extensive testing of the different options :)
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Sure, but this is about the OP using a TV with a HDMI 2.0 port and the ps4 pro cable (which I assume is 2.0 and as such 18 Gbps?). There are some 2.0 ports on TVs with some special features that support slightly higher badnwidths, so either only the cable or the cable + his TV port are the culprits here. 18 Gbps is not enough for 4:4:4 at 60hz if you have HDR turned on. Think it needs something around 20. So he wouldnt be able to use the default setting of the PS5 options at 4k 60hz HDR.
 
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