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halcali

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
6,317
Hong Kong SAR
Yo!

I'm about halfway through reading THE LORD OF THE RINGS (page 569) and Gandalf has just reappeared after seemingly being felled by a Balrog.
After reappearing, Galdalf gives a short description of his struggle to survive, but it seems like he's Jesus; practically indestructible (by his description) and can go as he pleases.

So, my advice to Gandalf: Take that ring, fly by eagle to Mount Doom and drop it into the volcano! Don't leave it up to fucking Frodo.

c701efea723bd0d20e7a48bc1e8ea868.jpg
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,305
Gandalf doesn't do it himself because he knows he wouldn't be able to resist the temptation, like his friend Saruman was.
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,615
I thought he died but the powers that be were like "quit slacking off your job isn't done" and sent him back?
 

H.Cornerstone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,727
......He can't. The ring was created be a fellow Maiar, and it would instantly corrupt him (and the eagles) and he would become a new dark lord.
 

BlueGeezer

Member
Oct 28, 2017
442
As others have pointed out it is not as he pleases. He was sent back until the job is done.

I envy you reading it for the first time! Now hurry up and then read the Silmarillion!!!
 
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halcali

halcali

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
6,317
Hong Kong SAR
......He can't. The ring was created be a fellow Maiar, and it would instantly corrupt him (and the eagles) and he would become a new dark lord.

Okay, I wasn't aware of that explanation. He doesn't seem corruptible, in any case.

The risk of becoming a Dark Lord would be grave, indeed... damn

edit: although, wasn't it Galdalf who threw the ring into the fire in THE HOBBIT?
 

TheCthultist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,450
New York
I always read it less that he's indestructible (in fact, he's probably to be just as easy as anyone else once you're in close) and more just that he'll keep coming back until the task is done.

The "just use the eagles" argument has already been answered in a bunch of ways, but it ultimately boils down to the fact that it ruins the fun of a good adventure story.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,305
the whole dang point of the series is that the lowest people on the totem pole (the hobbits) are the people who must save the world. it's written explicitly to be about that.
 

4CornersTHSA

Member
Jun 13, 2019
1,555
There are others on this site who can do a better job of explaining, but yeah Gandalf is essentially an angel (Maia in Tolkien's universe). His "bosses", the Valar, sent him back to finish the job and take out Sauron (a fellow Maiar, except a magnitude "greater").

And unfortunately the eagle plan wouldn't work, Gandalf himself says earlier he can't take the Ring as it would corrupt him.
 
Oct 30, 2017
15,278
The Eagles are an esteemed species of animals in Middle Earth and they typically do not bend to others' wishes. They only helped Gandalf because he's old as shit and they view him as a legend.

HOWEVER, that does not mean--nor was it ever expected--that they should bear the responsibility of destroying the One Ring.
 

AaronD

Member
Dec 1, 2017
3,265
Eagles are also Maiar. They would take the ring from G and become a feathered dark lord that would make Sauron look like Gollum.
 

Gpsych

Member
May 20, 2019
2,897
The more powerful you are the easier the ring is able to corrupt you. Epic beings have epic visions of what can be accomplished through power. Sam was all, "I will grow the biggest crops in the Shire!!!"
 

XaviConcept

Art Director for Videogames
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,914
Gandalf knows what would happen if he took the ring, hed get corrupted and then you would have to deal with the evil version of that dude. Not a good idea.
 

NinjaGarden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,550
Gandalf and the Eagles would succumb to the ring as everyone did, except with a much more powerful host.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,439
tongue-in-cheek. lol

I know ppl have been writing into the author suggesting this very thing since practically the 1950s. =p

But you gotta say it could be worth a try. No?
You get seen by the eye of Sauron and the wyverns would knock the ring bearer off the eagle. I think they made the right call.
 
Mar 3, 2018
4,514
I was always curious how much he can and can't help regular mortals. I've heard the gods of the middle earth would smite him or something if he tries to help too much? But then he helps them so much? Someone educate me
 

DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,710
......He can't. The ring was created be a fellow Maiar, and it would instantly corrupt him (and the eagles) and he would become a new dark lord.

It wouldn't instantly corrupt him. But it would eventually bend his will to evil.

In the book, he actually handles the ring once (maybe twice). He examines it at Bag End after Bilbo left. He's also probably handled it again in Rivendale. When Frodo awoke there, someone had put the ring on a new chain for him to carry around.
 

butalala

Member
Nov 24, 2017
5,288
He is an immortal spirit in the body of a man, with all of the frailties of a man. He can die (as you saw in FOTR), but his power level would attract Sauron's attention if he had tried to bring the ring to Mt. Doom, (that is if he managed to avoid the temptation to claim the ring for himself).

Gandalf's greatest abilities are in inspiring others to action (see: Thorin, Bilbo, Frodo, Aragorn, Theoden, etc.), so Gandalf is doing his best work among the people in Rohan and Gondor.
 

super-famicom

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
25,221
Catapult is a better solution

Mod Edit: Removed gif with ableist language
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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halcali

halcali

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
6,317
Hong Kong SAR
He is an immortal spirit in the body of a man, with all of the frailties of a man. He can die (as you saw in FOTR), but his power level would attract Sauron's attention if he had tried to bring the ring to Mt. Doom, (that is if he managed to avoid the temptation to claim the ring for himself).

Gandalf's greatest abilities are in inspiring others to action (see: Thorin, Bilbo, Frodo, Aragorn, Theoden, etc.), so Gandalf is doing his best work among the people in Rohan and Gondor.

Thank you, this is a very good, logical, reasoned, and truthful account. <3

I can continue the story knowing that a catapult wouldn't have been feasible.
 

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,301
The eagles are basically real world billionaires

They only show up when the world is about to end and take all the credit anyway
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,305
Yeah.. that's not good enough for me. I require logic. lol
I think it's actually pretty logical of a choice. The Ring is like the most powerful things in the world. If someone with power gains access, they'll be very dangerous. The more powerful they are, the more dangerous they'll be.

So Gandalf gives the ring to someone with basically zero power and surrounds him with people who he deems trustworthy to not take it for themselves.
 
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halcali

halcali

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
6,317
Hong Kong SAR
I think it's actually pretty logical of a choice. The Ring is like the most powerful things in the world. If someone with power gains access, they'll be very dangerous. The more powerful they are, the more dangerous they'll be.

So Gandalf gives the ring to someone with basically zero power and surrounds him with people who he deems trustworthy to not take it for themselves.

Well-said. <3
 

DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,710
I think it's actually pretty logical of a choice. The Ring is like the most powerful things in the world. If someone with power gains access, they'll be very dangerous. The more powerful they are, the more dangerous they'll be.

So Gandalf gives the ring to someone with basically zero power and surrounds him with people who he deems trustworthy to not take it for themselves.

Giving it a hobbit, the worst case scenario (if they don't lose it or have it taken) is that they become another Gollum.

Give it to Gandalf and he would effectively become Sauron 2.
 

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,059
Aragorn is the Jesus figure in LOTR. In response to the actual question, Gandalf was more or less being followed or watched the entire time, the whole point of Frodo doing it is no one suspected such a small insignificant person to be capable of carrying out a task like that.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,038
Gandalf's big weakness is his butterfingers. Dude is dropping his staff constantly. Get some duct tape on that or something.
 

Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,226
About the whole "the ring corrupting him" thing, it is rather confusing that that's such a big point about the actual ring, yet at the very beginning of the story Gandalf just casually takes the ring from Frodo to throw it into the fire.

At least in the movies, Jackson had him throw it in the fire still in the envelope and only handle it with the fire tongs so he never actually touched it.
 
Oct 29, 2017
13,470
Yo!

I'm about halfway through reading THE LORD OF THE RINGS (page 569) and Gandalf has just reappeared after seemingly being felled by a Balrog.
After reappearing, Galdalf gives a short description of his struggle to survive, but it seems like he's Jesus; practically indestructible (by his description) and can go as he pleases.

So, my advice to Gandalf: Take that ring, fly by eagle to Mount Doom and drop it into the volcano! Don't leave it up to fucking Frodo.

Gandalf isn't human, he is basically an angel given human form. As he says, he was sent back to complete his task.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,031
Yeah.. that's not good enough for me. I require logic. lol

Gandalf, and all the other Istari (eg: Saruman), are Maia spirits who inhabit the bodies of mortals and are thus ultimately limited by them (with exception maybe of age), despite their immense magical potential. Sauron was also a Maia. As others have noted what Gandalf fears is the One Ring's corruptive abilities, which speaks less about Gandalf's limitations and more about how powerful the ring is supposed to be. Sauron's very spirit and essence embody the ring, and the reoccurring motif is that the ring simply cannot, fundamentally by its form, ever be truly controlled. And nobody is immune to its ever subtle manipulative and corruptive powers.

As others have said, Gandalf being corrupted by the One Ring would ultimate amount to Sauron 2.0; an avatar of unbelievable power totally corrupted by Sauron's will. So for him it's absolutely not worth the risk, as he can feel the unavoidable corrupting surging through it.

The other factor, more thematically, is the role the Maia play in the creation and function of Arda. They are there, more than anything, to guide and aid in shaping its destiny, which is both kinda written but also not, as per the will of Eru. Gandalf is there to inspire good will and hope in men, to lead them into an age that will belong to them.

About the whole "the ring corrupting him" thing, it is rather confusing that that's such a big point about the actual ring, yet at the very beginning of the story Gandalf just casually takes the ring from Frodo to throw it into the fire.

At least in the movies, Jackson had him throw it in the fire still in the envelope and only handle it with the fire tongs so he never actually touched it.

It's not necessarily instantaneously corruptive. Like you don't immediately touch it and instantly fall to its will. It's more a case of the more time you spend with it the deeper its subtle corruptive roots dig into you.
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,722
About the whole "the ring corrupting him" thing, it is rather confusing that that's such a big point about the actual ring, yet at the very beginning of the story Gandalf just casually takes the ring from Frodo to throw it into the fire.

At least in the movies, Jackson had him throw it in the fire still in the envelope and only handle it with the fire tongs so he never actually touched it.
As noted, it's not about him touching it for an instant, it's about him carrying it long-term and maybe even trying to use it himself. It's really the movie that pushes the idea that it can instantly destroy him if he so much as touches it.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
I think it's actually pretty logical of a choice. The Ring is like the most powerful things in the world. If someone with power gains access, they'll be very dangerous. The more powerful they are, the more dangerous they'll be.

So Gandalf gives the ring to someone with basically zero power and surrounds him with people who he deems trustworthy to not take it for themselves.

Right, ultimately the reason why Frodo and Sam aren't as affected by the ring as others is because they're actually not all that interested in power. Hobbits aren't simple people, they're content people. They're more'n happy to chill under the shade of a tree smoking weed all day. People with power invariably want more, because the more power they have the more they can do with it. They understand its value but, to Hobbits, power has no value at all.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,054
I was always curious how much he can and can't help regular mortals. I've heard the gods of the middle earth would smite him or something if he tries to help too much? But then he helps them so much? Someone educate me

He's not just forbidden from using his full maiar powers, he's actually unable to. When he and the other Istari were sent to middle earth, they were explicitly locked into the forms of old men as a way of limiting their power. They aren't fully neutered (otherwise what would be the point of sending them in the first place), but their primary roles are to guide/aid/advise the peoples of middle earth, not take care of everything themselves.

However, it's heavily implied if not outright stated that possessing the One ring would effectively remove any limitations that their old man forms imposed, which is why someone like Gandalf or Saruman being corrupted by the ring would be just as bad if not worse than it returning to Sauron.
 

Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,226
As noted, it's not about him touching it for an instant, it's about him carrying it long-term and maybe even trying to use it himself. It's really the movie that pushes the idea that it can instantly destroy him if he so much as touches it.

Well, even in that same chapter Gandalf makes a point of how Frodo already finds it hard to hand over. Granted, the timeline is different in the book since Frodo's had the ring for 9 years at that point, but I can't remember in the novel if he just kept it on the shelf or actually wore it occasionally in that time. You're probably right though, from a filmmaking perspective, the visual of certain people not even wanting to touch it drives the point home better.
 

DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,710
About the whole "the ring corrupting him" thing, it is rather confusing that that's such a big point about the actual ring, yet at the very beginning of the story Gandalf just casually takes the ring from Frodo to throw it into the fire.

At least in the movies, Jackson had him throw it in the fire still in the envelope and only handle it with the fire tongs so he never actually touched it.

The corruption isn't instant. Bilbo willingly gave it up after 50+ years. Sam gave it up after a few days. Faramir never touched it, but knew it was within his grasp and just went "nope!" Its a huge temptation, but some can resist it to an extent.

Gandalf briefly handling it isn't a big deal to me.
 

atamize

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
904
Aragorn is the Jesus figure in LOTR. In response to the actual question, Gandalf was more or less being followed or watched the entire time, the whole point of Frodo doing it is no one suspected such a small insignificant person to be capable of carrying out a task like that.
I wonder what the original plan of the fellowship was. Had they not broken up, would they have accompanied Frodo all the way up to the Black Gate and then just peaced out?
 

Deleted member 52442

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 24, 2019
10,774
There are others on this site who can do a better job of explaining, but yeah Gandalf is essentially an angel (Maia in Tolkien's universe). His "bosses", the Valar, sent him back to finish the job and take out Sauron (a fellow Maiar, except a magnitude "greater").


this explanation is probably the coolest thing ive heard from the universe (not that the movies were bad, mind you)