Nice, keep it up, and don't worry if you are to wordy while writing.
that's what editing is for :P
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WritersEra |OT| Publish before you die, writing writer writes
- Thread starter weemadarthur
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that's what editing is for :P
I don't write a lot of reviews, but I've put a short one on Goodreads here? Really liked it overall, and I'm looking forward to the second!
And thank you - I don't think it necessarily made for a better book, but I think lots of writers have that one idea they keep working on over the years? I found Gingernuts of Horror fairly approachable and friendly, so hopefully you hear back from them soon!
Whelp I'm officially submitting to markets again. This is fun. It's been a minute since I had to do the whole research and submit.
Speaking of maps, saw this article on twitter and thought I'd pass it on your way.
Fantasy Maps Don't Belong in the Hands of Fantasy Characters
Speaking of maps, saw this article on twitter and thought I'd pass it on your way.
Fantasy Maps Don't Belong in the Hands of Fantasy Characters
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Thanks fleur, that was a fascinating read. I try to work through the concept of industries that must exist to allow various technologies, but I didn't know the word for "taxation map".
Wow. Thank you so much. Seriously. Getting reviews (especially written) can be such an uphill battle, and I know they're time consuming to write. Really appreciate it, and super happy you liked it! First books are always a bit embarrassing, and since this was my NaNo book it was even more by the seat of my pants. Hopefully book two will deliver even more.
For Stickman, I think it's a great thing. That's a lot of care and planning to put into a book, and to get it out after that is also a huge accomplishment. I know a lot of people that have books percolating for years upon years that never quite get out the door. I can't wait to dig in. For Gingernuts, they've been really personable as you say, and it does seem like they're going to review it in June. I'll keep my fingers crossed until it actually happens, and then I'll panic because I'm sure they won't be as generous as my friends and family... I do have an interview with them coming up next week sometime I think (like yours), though, so the ball is starting to roll. Hopefully I can use the building steam from all the recent activity to launch the sequel. I'm aiming for Halloween. Naturally. :)
If you do find someone cool, share! I love maps, and I might be in the market for one myself for another project.
You're very welcome! I didn't realise it was a NaNo book (I've never managed to finish one - my quickest first draft was about four months) - that's all the more impressive.
I'll look forward to it in October/November! Having some advance press should serve you well too - I'll keep an eye out for that interview.
Well, it's what I did during my attempt at NaNo anyway. I didn't finish either, but I did get get 37,000 done and it was enough to submit for consideration to a publisher, and they released it in chapters on their magazine while I finished up the book. It was a very educational experience, that's for sure. I'll be forever grateful to Cyan and everyone for helping nudge it along. Proof that NaNo pays off in all kinds of ways. \[-_-]/
And yay! Cheers. Let's just hope the advance press is 'good'. Haha.
Anyway, what about you? Are you working on a 3rd horror novel or anything else in particular?
I'm juggling a whole bunch of things - I've finished a sci-fi novel related to the other two but not yet managed to find a publisher for it, written most of another horror novel that's probably unpublishable (it's got alternating first-and-second-person viewpoints to represent disassociation, but I think I might have overdone the complexity a bit), I'm doing contract work for a small videogame company, and I'm also experimenting with a children's book!
The sales of my two novels have been... lower than I'd like, so I'm thinking I need to branch out a bit.
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How do you all choose what idea(s) to pursue? Normally I just write whatever pops into my head, but lately I'm trying to really think about things before (and outline!) so I don't end up with something accidentally impossible to sell, but it's left me totally shaken over committing to something and I keep flip-flopping between ideas.
With great difficulty! I find it hard not to get distracted - starting a new project is always more exciting than putting in the harder work to finish one. You really just have to commit to something and accept you might get it wrong - I've put months of work into projects I don't expect to ever finish or publish because it took me that long to realise they weren't working, but I still got something out of the experience, even if it was just learning which mistakes to avoid next time.
I often outline stuff and then just decide is it something Id want to write.
Sometimes I outline write a chapter or two then realize, Im more excited to write my already ongoing stories (3 or 4 or so), but then writing all these ongoing stories sometimes Im like I just want to write something goofy and silly since everything else I do is all in various states of seriousness.
That said, I just have to be in the mood to write what I want to pursue.
Before I got an agent, I just came up with an idea, and if that idea stayed in my head for a few days and weeks, with me constantly tinkering around with it, adding to it, and, most important of all, talking to other people about it, so they could ask me weird questions about the idea, challenge me to think of it in ways I hadn't thought, and still think it was interesting, then I'd just go ahead and write it.
Now, I have to at least run the basic idea by my agent before I go ahead with it, because there are some things that she doesn't feel confident about trying to sell. If I ever decide I absolutely, positively have to write an urban fantasy with angels it, I'll have to find another agent for that one, she won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. The same goes for torture-porn based stories.
For my current work in progress, it was one of three ideas that I tossed at her, she wasn't so hot on the other two, but it can be a bit weird now to have a professional voice intoning, "Yeah, that might sell, no, that one WON'T," and then move ahead based on that.
Parts of this sound amazing, other parts make me go... if I got in that situation would I still be able to write.
my goal with my writing is to tell tales I want to see but no one else has really done (or at least haven't done the way I am doing them) so in my head all of them are tales that if you compare to other works just won't sell because there is nothing out there to prove they will sell. (that being said they likely won't sell lol)
I don't know how I would be able to do being forced to write what would sell.... though to be fair... I don't really know what I would do to move onto another story either. already spent 15 years with this one.... and likely have at least 10 more before I finish the rough draft... and a lifetime of editing ahead of me so I suppose I won't have to worry about that even if I do have success >.>
I sent my agent some ideas and still haven't heard back, so naturally I assume they're all terrible. 😬
To be fair, she's not actually telling me, "You need to come up with commercially viable ideas." But she is telling me which ideas I propose she's interested in, or enthusiastic about, and warns me about the way the market is going when it comes to certain topics. I mean, she took on my insane cyberpunk/magic hybrid novel, and EVERYBODY, even the publisher that acquired it is like, "Man, this is a tough sell..." so it's not always about the marketability of a book.
But, once you decide to go the trade publishing route, you're acknowledging that you're in the business to sell books, in bookstores, so... y'know... in order to sell books, they have to have some kind of reasonable market appeal for the publisher to make their money back, and for you to earn out your advance. It's a bit of a limitation in one regard, but it also means you don't have to pay for editors, line editors, cover artists, printers, distribution, marketing, promotion, or any of the other stuff that indie publishers need to consider depending on the scale of their ambition.
Probably your agent is just busy.
I have to keep painfully reminding myself that I'm Just The Newbie. I've moved up the rankings a little, since at least now I've got a debut coming, which puts me above the brand spanking new clients. But at the same time, she's got commercially successful, or award-winning authors that already have proven track records, so I'm always going to be pushed off to the side compared to those writers.
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I haven't had to worry about that later stuff yet. I want to finish my entire story... no matter how many books that is... before i even worry about editing and what not proper (though I do have plans to redo books 1 and 2 again soon)
that all being said... working with an editor would be interesting... though I have given it thought... and I think as I do my own pass in edition I will also need to make notes on a ton of things. I have a habit of putting things in my story that don't seem important at the time, but after you get farther in you can realize they were setting up something (basically I'm trying to give my story a good amount of rereadability by putting in little things for people to notice on a second read through after they have gotten farther and learned other things)
Some of those things are lines that are designed to be a bit awkward to stand out but might take 2 books before it suddenly makes sense why that character said what they said. (these lines are rather rare, like 1 or 2 per book at most.)
I will have to see in practice how well I pull off such a thing, but I'm hoping to get them to read well enough that it doesn't feel like bad writing but still stand out enough that it just suddenly clicks for some readers when the whole picture becomes clear.
lots of weird stuff like that. it's why I do do some rewrites as I'm not some sort of genious who can just plan out everything perfectly. I have to change a few things and during that time I sneak in such things.
though I have found in general I have gotten better at planning such things and setting them up well in advance. I have a couple of things that I still don't know what they connect to though >.> so either I will eventually figure that out or just remove them lol.
I'm close to finishing my first draft so I'm going to ask a mod to ban me until July 1st. Really don't want to get distracted by E3 news. See you guys later.
I have now revealed that the novel I'm doing for this year's Nano in November is Copper's Resurrection. From now to October I will be doing outlines on quite a bit of days working on plot, characters and such to ensure that this will be one of the better written novels I would do for a long time. Here are 10 things to note about it:
1. It's a sequel to Copper's Resistance and the final one in the Copper(R) trilogy.
2. It takes place 3 weeks after the events of Copper's Resistance.
3. It has the most chapters in the trilogy with 25 as opposed to 22 from Copper's Resistance and 16 from Copper's Revenge.
4. It has less action scenes than the previous Copper novels but still has a lot and the violence is more brutal than previous Copper novels as well.
5. It's the first in the trilogy to have a female villain as the main villain.
6. Many of the chapters are named after quotes from movies, trailers, games and such. For example the "Let the Past Die" chapter is based on a quote Kylo Ren says in Star Wars The Last Jedi.
7. It is by far the darkest Copper novel, taking itself even more seriously than Copper's Resistance(which was dark quite a bit at times). However, humor is still present, though not as common as the previous novels.
8. Despite being a Copper novel, his appearance is less than usual for this one.
9. Unlike the previous novels where big armies were the main threats, various gangs are the main threats here, each different from one another with their own set of goals.
10. It has quite a bit of sub plots, but the main one revolves around Copper and the Manlo army trying to complete various missions for other people around a variety of planets that are in deep trouble while dealing with various gangs and a very powerful woman that helps those gangs out.
I might do excerpts if that's possible.
1. It's a sequel to Copper's Resistance and the final one in the Copper(R) trilogy.
2. It takes place 3 weeks after the events of Copper's Resistance.
3. It has the most chapters in the trilogy with 25 as opposed to 22 from Copper's Resistance and 16 from Copper's Revenge.
4. It has less action scenes than the previous Copper novels but still has a lot and the violence is more brutal than previous Copper novels as well.
5. It's the first in the trilogy to have a female villain as the main villain.
6. Many of the chapters are named after quotes from movies, trailers, games and such. For example the "Let the Past Die" chapter is based on a quote Kylo Ren says in Star Wars The Last Jedi.
7. It is by far the darkest Copper novel, taking itself even more seriously than Copper's Resistance(which was dark quite a bit at times). However, humor is still present, though not as common as the previous novels.
8. Despite being a Copper novel, his appearance is less than usual for this one.
9. Unlike the previous novels where big armies were the main threats, various gangs are the main threats here, each different from one another with their own set of goals.
10. It has quite a bit of sub plots, but the main one revolves around Copper and the Manlo army trying to complete various missions for other people around a variety of planets that are in deep trouble while dealing with various gangs and a very powerful woman that helps those gangs out.
I might do excerpts if that's possible.
I have a couple questions for folks with more experience...
1. For those of you who are self-publishing, what do you do for book covers? I'm currently just using clip-art, but I'm not a graphic designer, so it doesn't look all that great.
2. I've started on several real projects (particularly a fantasy series and a mystery/fantasy procedural), but to get more writing practice in stories that don't require as much world-building, I set up a pen name for erotica stories (well, not so much erotica as fiction with sex scenes). Does anyone else do those? And if so, do you recommend continuing with self-publishing, or finding an erotica publisher? So far, I've self-published (ebooks only) three 40k word books (in a six-book series that's mostly written, but the last three books need to be fleshed out) and a short story. It seems harder to advertise erotica than other genres.
3. How much time do you spend on editing rather than writing? For a six-month period, I was averaging one to two thousand words a day, but now that I'm at the editing stage on some of my projects, the writing has died down to almost nothing. I find myself doing four to six drafts of each chapter to prep it for release (again, without a publisher, so I'm editing it by myself).
1. For those of you who are self-publishing, what do you do for book covers? I'm currently just using clip-art, but I'm not a graphic designer, so it doesn't look all that great.
2. I've started on several real projects (particularly a fantasy series and a mystery/fantasy procedural), but to get more writing practice in stories that don't require as much world-building, I set up a pen name for erotica stories (well, not so much erotica as fiction with sex scenes). Does anyone else do those? And if so, do you recommend continuing with self-publishing, or finding an erotica publisher? So far, I've self-published (ebooks only) three 40k word books (in a six-book series that's mostly written, but the last three books need to be fleshed out) and a short story. It seems harder to advertise erotica than other genres.
3. How much time do you spend on editing rather than writing? For a six-month period, I was averaging one to two thousand words a day, but now that I'm at the editing stage on some of my projects, the writing has died down to almost nothing. I find myself doing four to six drafts of each chapter to prep it for release (again, without a publisher, so I'm editing it by myself).
For the one book I self-published (here) I found some open-use stock photos I liked, then used Microsoft Paint 3D to combine them and tweak the lighting effects. I used a filter in the Windows photo tool to up the contrast before putting the title font on top of it all. Took about two hours, and they're both fairly straightforward pices of software.
I'm not a graphic designer either, though, so some people will have done much more sophisticated pieces.
if anyone wants to join DTL and myself in track your words publicly feel free to add yourself to
I've been using Affinity Designer. I like the software (to the extent I understand how to use it). I actually kind of like how the covers for the series came out, especially when looking at all the covers together (they're variations on a theme), but in comparison to real books, they're primitive looking. And the short story cover is horrible.
So I'm beta reading for a friend, spotting spelling errors, fixing grammar etc. Had anyone done this before? I've helped out a few times with young fan fiction writers but it's been a while since (many years). How can I balance between my friend's very different prose style from my own preferences? Some things I just wouldn't word in that way.
For instance, he wants to keep a line in where the character sees a shadow pass across the sky and then opens her eyes. I say that the character won't notice a shadow if her eyes are closed. But he reckons most people can tell if the sky darkens even with their eyes closed.
I want to let my friend have his own voice in his work, but I also think he's wrong here.
For instance, he wants to keep a line in where the character sees a shadow pass across the sky and then opens her eyes. I say that the character won't notice a shadow if her eyes are closed. But he reckons most people can tell if the sky darkens even with their eyes closed.
I want to let my friend have his own voice in his work, but I also think he's wrong here.
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When I proofread I don't fight the author THAT much. I'll argue grammatical construction all day, and I have lively discussions about subtext with a poet who I regularly edit, but in the end I'm not the person responsible for the art. Just tidying up.
Also I would notice a change in light level with my eyes closed, but I think it needs to be worded like that rather than like "sees a shadow" or it won't make sense.
Also I would notice a change in light level with my eyes closed, but I think it needs to be worded like that rather than like "sees a shadow" or it won't make sense.
It depends on how well you know your friend's sensibilities, and your own time availability.
If your friend asked you to be absolutely brutal and leave no stone unturned, then have at it, especially if they asked you how you would improve things if you were making changes.
If your friend is only asking about big picture changes like plot, character and you get the sense they're largely happy with the style, then leave it alone.
But correcting grammar and spelling errors is definitely a matter of time. At this point, unless someone were paying me, and if there were a LOT, I'd probably just mention there's a lot of grammar/spelling errors, but not go in to make the changes. At some point, they'll have to do that themselves, or hire a copy editor if they really can't do it.
1. Ask a friend or pay through a service like fiverr. If you know what you want you can generally get something nice done cheap.
2. The very thought!
3. Something like double the time to write.
I have a question that I'm hoping someone here knows the answer to. Would it be legally dicey to write about a fictional organization that's supposed to be an offshoot of a real, trademarked one (like, say, the Boy Scouts) and is kind of similar in some ways, though clearly fictional?
Nah you're good. It's what the Simpsons call "legally distinct." Like Bojack did an episode on Scientology, maybe look to them for inspiration.
That's what I figured (and hoped) so I'm glad to hear that. I'll have to track down that episode.
I think the probably the most hilarious take on Scientology that Scientology couldn't sue was the "Mindhead Church," that appeared in Steve Martin's Bowfinger movie.
How do you make a hate-worthy villain in more grounded ways? I'm writing a story where the main villain is this, let's say internet famous "auteur", the lead developer behind this famous indie game the story centers around. I want him to be the sort of person the some of his team learn to hate, but also the sort of person who garners some intense hatred and intense defense, a real base breaker sort of online celebrity. I want to avoid any obviously no no content (a la rape) for obvious reasons and murder is naturaly too far but i'm stuck as yo how to make this guy seem truly awful in a "normal" way.
Indifference. Callous and/or calculating indifference. For example, indifference to the suffering of others (some people see that as horrific, others admire it as cool practicality or 'eye on the prize' attitude). You could sprinkle all kinds of indifference around to varying degrees to really build up hate but also sell an angle that's attractive to some. Ignoring animals in pain, coworkers with issues, strangers in trouble, family in need, etc.
He blames others for his mistakes and takes credit for their accomplishments.
Stephen King had a great section on this in his book On Writing where he lays out how he decided to set up the main antagonist (I think of his book Insomnia?) where the chapter introducing him, he kicked a dog. Pretty evil. But King focuses on the lead up before he kicked the dog. The man was running for local office and doing campaigning that day. It was hot, he was uncomfortable on his suit, and had to climb up a steep ass hill to get to this one house. As he gets there, there is a dog on a chain barking at him the entire time. It never stops to even take a breath. The man, who incidentally is smiling the whole way up in case someone is looking at him, knocks on the door, calls out for someone, and peers through some fo the windows to see if anyone is in there. There's no one, the house is empty. Sweaty, tired, annoyed, he drops his smile and turns to the dog that had been barking at him this entire time and kicks it before going back down the hill. The idea here is King shows that his villain is professional right up to the point he realizes no one is watching, then he's an asshole.
I think you should focus less on dramatic ways to make him hate-worthy and more on what he already is: a boss. If he's in charge of a small studio, then he's essentially a boss in charge of managing, assigning projects, making sure everyone is busy and on task. Within that context, draw from your own experiences of shitty things bosses have done to you or friends. And I mean the really petty stuff. Like do they set unrealistic expectations and get pissy when you don't meet them? Do they make people do shit jobs as a punishment/to flex their own power? Are they creepy to women working there/incredibly mean to them? Someone doesn't have to do something dramatic for your reader to hate them, they just have to be a shit, if you get what I'm saying.
Most people of this type in the real world get away with it by being carefully selective about who to abuse. They use a combination of charisma and cruelty, often reeling people in by super-nice to them and giving them the impression that they're not this nice to other people, or that they're showing a side of themselves that others don't see, to give that person a sense of privilege. Then when they start the abuse, there's a lot of gaslighting involved with the whole, "I wouldn't have done this if you hadn't provoked it."
In cases of deliberate, public cruelty, it's usually a careful selection of someone powerless who can't really go up the chain of command to get action. The best manipulators of this type always use the truth, to some degree. Like they would never yell out an intern who has done nothing wrong, that everyone like. But if there is an intern that people feel isn't cutting it, or is kind of a jerk anyway, then they go "full blast" on that person. It's really a matter of being careful of applying the abuse/power, and ensuring that anyone targeted can't bypass the person and call in help from higher powers.
Of course, this doesn't work forever, which is usually how these people eventually get caught out.
I brought this up in the current CWC Thread, but I've been trying to do more sci-fi and I've been having trouble making my universes stand out. Anyone got any tips/experience writing sci-fi? Any tricks or tips that they found really worked and helped their stories?
My own experience is focus on your characters, and make them interact with your setting in a belivable way. Doesnt matter how much you explain and do exposition, what will make it break is having the people that live in your world feel weird on them.
Just keep in mind that your world building is an accent, not the star of the show, though sometimes it may momentarily steal the show if you do something really cool with it. The thing about SF or Fantasy world building is you can easily go overboard with it, and at that point, you're not telling the story anymore, you're showing off to readers how much thought and effort you put into something that's not really advancing your story.
If you want to make your SF world stand out, then probably the easiest way to do it is by showing aspects of your world that other stories in the genre usually don't. That's one of the reasons why cyberpunk was such a breath of fresh air in the 80s. Writers like William Gibson ignored the usual SF tropes of ships and lasers of the future, and started thinking, "Hey, what if computers got REALLY powerful, and could simulate reality, the corporations we have now got powerful enough to influence countries and became super-powers in their own right?" Up until then, lots of SF was robots, starships, and wars between empires.
In the same way, urban fantasy exploded once people took fantastical elements of worldbuilding, and stuck them into our modern environment, instead of creating their own Middle-Earth/Narnia as everyone thought at the time was Standard Operating Procedure for fantasy. Just mull over some of the aspects of your world that might not have been portrayed to death already in existing genre fiction, and see if you can't put a spin on it.
If you want to make your SF world stand out, then probably the easiest way to do it is by showing aspects of your world that other stories in the genre usually don't. That's one of the reasons why cyberpunk was such a breath of fresh air in the 80s. Writers like William Gibson ignored the usual SF tropes of ships and lasers of the future, and started thinking, "Hey, what if computers got REALLY powerful, and could simulate reality, the corporations we have now got powerful enough to influence countries and became super-powers in their own right?" Up until then, lots of SF was robots, starships, and wars between empires.
In the same way, urban fantasy exploded once people took fantastical elements of worldbuilding, and stuck them into our modern environment, instead of creating their own Middle-Earth/Narnia as everyone thought at the time was Standard Operating Procedure for fantasy. Just mull over some of the aspects of your world that might not have been portrayed to death already in existing genre fiction, and see if you can't put a spin on it.
Sorry to be one of those people, but would it be possible to get comments/thoughts on my first five pages? I've gone through massive editing for my book and finally feel it's "done" (well, as done as it ever could be) but I'm still nervous and generally extremely low confidence. Asked friends but honestly haven't got much from them. Could use some feedback, if you guys are willing.
Thanks—if it's against the rules let me know, sorry if so!
Thanks—if it's against the rules let me know, sorry if so!
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You absolutely can! Also pop into the discord, where there is an excerpts channel just for that purpose.
Please specify whether you want beta reading feedback on all sorts of items, or one thing in particular? And do you want a gentle critique since right now you're feeling low?
I think beta reading on everything would be better. It's only the first five pages, but I just wanted to get some general impressions and answer that brutal question—"would you want to read more?"
Thanks for asking! You can be honest, it'll just be nice to genuinely get opinions. Asked so many people and haven't got much so anything will help. It's been professionally edited, but I'm still nervous.
Here's a drive link:
Thanks for asking! You can be honest, it'll just be nice to genuinely get opinions. Asked so many people and haven't got much so anything will help. It's been professionally edited, but I'm still nervous.
Here's a drive link:
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lostconst18
I have read it and will send feedback to you via PM.
May I ask first, if english is a first or second language for you? We have a lot of international participants in writing group.
I have read it and will send feedback to you via PM.
May I ask first, if english is a first or second language for you? We have a lot of international participants in writing group.
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I keep having ideas and I already have something that's got 8 chapters.
I want to finish it eventually. This community seems as good as any!
I want to finish it eventually. This community seems as good as any!