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WoW Classic showed me how much gaming changed in 15 years
- Thread starter grmlin
- Start date
Nothing OP listed is exclusive to WoW. It's more of the identity of game design of that era than anything.
Yeah I think I spent more time on thottbot and wowhead than in the game.
Divinity is one of them. You're really used quest markers nowadays, always nice to see when you've to figure something out yourself...
I still never got to beat 2 but I really enjoyed playing it. Fantastic game and that's exactly what I meant as well.
Ya, I really missed out, too. I started playing 6 months after launch and the entire server was a ghost town, the only other players I saw were idling in Ironforge. I read about what WoW was like at launch in 2004 and it was just completely night and day different from what I played in 2005.
I've been trying to watch a lot of Classic WoW and it's seeming like to me it's a combination of "you had to have been there" and "it came out at the right time"
Because I totally understand why people would view what others would view as a lack of QoL as something that can enhance the MMO experience
But I absolutely will never be able to change the fact that no, I absolutely do not have the time to spend a significant amount of time waiting to group up, grind, or line up for a quest. I could definitely pinpoint a time where I absolutely would be down for that, but it's something that will never be in the cards as an adult still progressing through life with ever increasing responsibilities and other things and hobbies (and even other games) that I'd also like to dedicate my time to
PSO and WoW are two games I wish I picked up when they released even now, but eh, can't rewind time
Quite amusing how ppl are implying Classic WoW is 'hardcore' ... at its release back in '04 , WoW was considered quite a streamlined mmorpg by seasoned MMO players.
The current WoW must be totally on rails for ppl to be saying this (I haven't played since just before the 2nd expansion for reference)
The current WoW must be totally on rails for ppl to be saying this (I haven't played since just before the 2nd expansion for reference)
Been playing the last two days and I'm reminded of just how much I love classic WoW questing.
A lot of the objectives are incredibly simple to be sure, but goddamn did Blizzard nail everything else. The writing, the storylines, the various zones, the music. Even though none of it is new to me this time around, I'm having so much fun leveling. Azeroth will always be a magical setting for me.
I actually think questing is still good in WoW and has been in every expansion, but there's definitely something special about the vanilla zones. The stakes are bit lower, everything is more grounded, and you feel like a small part of a massive world (as opposed to current WoW where you're a legendary hero).
A lot of the objectives are incredibly simple to be sure, but goddamn did Blizzard nail everything else. The writing, the storylines, the various zones, the music. Even though none of it is new to me this time around, I'm having so much fun leveling. Azeroth will always be a magical setting for me.
I actually think questing is still good in WoW and has been in every expansion, but there's definitely something special about the vanilla zones. The stakes are bit lower, everything is more grounded, and you feel like a small part of a massive world (as opposed to current WoW where you're a legendary hero).
God I love the investment in exploring and world building classic WOW offers by ditching all the streamlined crap that lets people can raid in 20 minutes and get flashy whizzbang lights to make sure they feel good afterwards.
The concept of "I don't have enough time to XYZ" is like the one area of complaint that I'll never be able to empathize with. If it's a priority, great, if it's not, play something that doesn't ask the time investment. And I say this as a dad with two kids and limited game time.
The concept of "I don't have enough time to XYZ" is like the one area of complaint that I'll never be able to empathize with. If it's a priority, great, if it's not, play something that doesn't ask the time investment. And I say this as a dad with two kids and limited game time.
I agree 100% with this.
I would like to add that i think the the move towards Synthetic engagement has a lot to do with that these days Wow basically competes with Netflix, Facebook, Apple and every other tech company that fights for your attention. Do you think investors would be happy to hear something like:
" Yeah you know we will remove all these QOL and instant gratification dopamine spikes, aswell with going back to making classes unique and special compared to everyone can do everything, and switch to slow progressive character growth instead. This will bring alot more revenue!"
On a side note i found quite a lot of similarities in the so called "S curve" in business and Wows subscriber growth from Vanilla.
Also watch this if you want to look at the terrible truth of what retail Wow have become: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfRzu0iqaWI
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One of the things that I find interesting is just how much headspace classic takes and for all the right reasons. While at work I plan the next part of my adventure out in the back of my mind. I need to get some more linen cloth for my tailoring and first aid on my mage for example and then I can craft myself some nice bags.
Retail wow has that to some extent but in a very toxic way. You have to constantly keep up to date with it or youll fall behind. There's nothing fun about that and by the end of the month when I have to choose if I want to resub I let it lapse.
I'm really enjoying the ride and feel no rush for endgame.
Retail wow has that to some extent but in a very toxic way. You have to constantly keep up to date with it or youll fall behind. There's nothing fun about that and by the end of the month when I have to choose if I want to resub I let it lapse.
I'm really enjoying the ride and feel no rush for endgame.
yes yes!
It absolutely amazes me how people just chat in the global chat and talk about the good old times. Also how people thank each other for help, even if it's just a friendly jump in front of you lol.
Meanwhile I'm standing at the shore fishing, my cat likes some fresh fish :)
Games changed a lot. But i do not agree that is more welcoming at the end of the day. It just takes away the completion satisfaction and allows developers to not overthink quest design cause they just show you where to go.
As a proof of this i present to you the biggest evidence of all. Please try Zelda BOFTW. The design principles reminded me a lot of WoW classic. A modern game did the not hand holding thing and at same time was grate for novices and veterans.
Hmm, this has me wondering. Will my panda/diablo/zergling show up in WoW Classic? I assume the pets/mounts from later versions don't show up.
I can't confirm personally but I did see someone with the panda pet yesterday
Really? Because my experience in the first three days has been everyone scrambling to get Questie/TomTom/QuestHelper addons working as quickly as possible to make Classic just like Retail.
Same here. Maybe the first few hours before all the quest add-ons appeared. There was so much going on in WoW, who really had time to read it all, figure where to go and complete a quest. Even more so when you wanted to rank up another character to 60. Those quest add-ons were a time and sanity saver.
Retail wow leveling is almost completely automatic. It shows where to get the quest, where the quest objective is. 100% drop rate for quest items, and where to turn in the quest. Rinse and repeat.
With classic it tells you the quest objectives physical location and you have to actually READ the text to figure out where to go. It makes it much more involved and fun.
With classic it tells you the quest objectives physical location and you have to actually READ the text to figure out where to go. It makes it much more involved and fun.
fuck
Quest helper addons are nothing new, and were pretty popular even back in vanilla. Something that's often lost in the excitement of how much better/different classic is from modern WoW is that a lot of the QoL changes that happened over the years were simple Blizzard rolling popular addon functionality into the base game.
But then it wouldn't be Classic!! As they said though get an add on you casual! /s
In 2004 people said WoW was for babies, comparing it to other hardcore mmos around the time.
In 2019 people say WoW Classic was hardcore, comparing it to the nowadays version.
People that says "damn, vanilla was so hardcore" are not comparing it to DAOC, EQ or UO, they are comparing it to the shitstorm that is WoW today.
How much of a shitstorm is it today?
I played WOW back when it came out -- my hayday was vanilla through TBC. I recall coming back and giving it a shot years later -- I think 2013 or 2014 -- And was kind of aghast by how all of the character and feeling of the world even being a world had kind of been removed in service of utter convenience. For example, you no longer had to find friends and travel to a dungeon to do a dungeon. Like you wouldn't grab some friends and travel to Diremaul and face all the dangers there and figure out where everything is. You would just queue up, the game would auto match you with people from other realms, you'd teleport to the dungeon, you'd mechanically go through it with other players who never say anything, and collect a reward. It was extremely convenient, sure, but (at least in my opinion) the game had fundamentally been changed from being an adventure in a world to being a motion you go through to acquire things.
It's so bizarre that you could do every dungeon in the game without actually traveling to them or even knowing where they are. When you remove the danger, the adventure, the journey, all of it - in order to make the game easy and convenient - you just kind of lose a feeling of connection to the material and lose any feeling of ownership over the things you'd acquired. I hope WOW Classic's popularity signals to developers that convenience and guaranteed rewards aren't everything.
I just wanted to point out how different the game was back then. :) I don't think the game released with all these addons available at the start, right?
Yup. Idk where this idea that most people actually "figured it out" comes from. We all did that shit back in the day.
No, adddons later but many of us still put crazy hours into classic haha. If they wanted real classic, they would drop adddons.
Yep, WoW made MMOs far more accessible at the time. How people that played EQ at launch viewed WoW at launch is basically how people that played WoW at launch view MMOs today. lol
i got some on the ah for 40s each
almost got my mount hehehehe
The problem was that very, very few players actually did the dungeons. For every person who made the journey, read the lore and followed the story there were 10 who didn't even know it existed. Blizzard made content more accessible because otherwise the majority of the player base weren't experiencing it.
Also have to say, one area that they have significantly improved on is the integration of dungeons into the main storylines. Back in vanilla it was so easy to miss a dungeon due to the fact they often just sat in a zone with very few breadcrumb quests or integration with what was happening.
It's interesting to see how all of the mountains of QoL additions they inserted into WoW over the years, especially the LFG system, was a detriment to the game.
It made the game seem less like a world, and more of a very graphical website.
It made the game seem less like a world, and more of a very graphical website.
I was surprised by how much I've found myself enamored with WoW classic (hadn't played since 2006)
I don't think I appreciates at the time how fine tuned and we'll designed a lot of the content is. Coming from a month of FFXIV right before diving into classic, the difference is like night and day.
FFXIV is so streamlined and frictionless that it barely feels like a game to me. I played through 65 levels without finding a single scenario where I had to do anything different. Every single enemy that I encountered at level 15 is the same as every enemy I encountered at level 60. I repeat my rotation until it is dead and there is *literally* nothing I can do to change that.
In WoW classic I am constantly taking into consideration the environment around me, the new abilities I've added to my kit, the type of enemy I'm fighting, the range of quests I'm working on, where I want to go next..... if I play my cards right and make good decisions I do well. If I play poorly or make bad decisions I do poorly. There are some things that are better to do by cooperating with other players. I have to interact with them and communicate.
I just can't really get over how empty FFXIV felt by comparison.
The singular takeaway seems to be that WoW classic resembles a single player RPG whereas modern MMOs like FFXIV, when you take away the dungeon co-op, resembles a mobile game more than anything else.
I don't think I appreciates at the time how fine tuned and we'll designed a lot of the content is. Coming from a month of FFXIV right before diving into classic, the difference is like night and day.
FFXIV is so streamlined and frictionless that it barely feels like a game to me. I played through 65 levels without finding a single scenario where I had to do anything different. Every single enemy that I encountered at level 15 is the same as every enemy I encountered at level 60. I repeat my rotation until it is dead and there is *literally* nothing I can do to change that.
In WoW classic I am constantly taking into consideration the environment around me, the new abilities I've added to my kit, the type of enemy I'm fighting, the range of quests I'm working on, where I want to go next..... if I play my cards right and make good decisions I do well. If I play poorly or make bad decisions I do poorly. There are some things that are better to do by cooperating with other players. I have to interact with them and communicate.
I just can't really get over how empty FFXIV felt by comparison.
The singular takeaway seems to be that WoW classic resembles a single player RPG whereas modern MMOs like FFXIV, when you take away the dungeon co-op, resembles a mobile game more than anything else.
I don't agree. I've played vanilla WoW and I'm currently on and off Guild Wars 2, I'd say I socialized more in the latter.
Yeah WoW was a trailblazer for collector editions, and the unsealed boxes actually become collectors items.