Would you consider Poison to be a debuff in games?

[Phendrana]

So I've recently started playing Slay the Spire. What an awesome game! Today I had my first run using The Silent where I focused on a Poison deck. It was amazing, I was wrecking everything with a combination of multi-hit attacks (powered by Boots) that each added another level of poison. It's probably the most fun deck I've assembled so far.

Anyway, I started fighting the boss of Act 2, The Champ. I had him dead to rights. He was taking 60+ poison damage per turn, and I was a few cards away from killing him. And then he used his Anger ability, completely removing all 'debuffs'...which included all of the poison I had inflicted him with. This surprised me - I have always understood something like Poison to be a Status Effect in games, whereas Buffs and Debuffs are a separate class of abilities that generally affect stats in some way. Anyway, the boss started spamming 27x2 attacks after that and I couldn't recover quickly enough before he finished me off.

The reason I'm making the thread is because I told this story to my friend, and he basically responded with 'duh'. He couldn't relate to my surprise at all. "A debuff is any negative effect", he said. "That's common knowledge."

So I wanted to ask everyone here to see if it's just me who has always understood status/buffs/debuffs this way? Or is this really common knowledge as my friend claims?

 

[jph139]

I would consider stuff like "status effect" and "debuff" and "affliction" and whatever to all be the same thing, in common parlance. Unless a game specifically differentiates between them, I'd assume they're all one bucket.

 

[Joco]

Your friend is right.

 

[kiaaa]

I generally link buffs/debuffs to stats but mmos call pretty much any negative effect a debuff.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I'd consider it a DOT unless it impairs the enemy in some other way. However I also wouldn't fault a game designer designating it as a debuff.

 

[Lucas M. Thomas]

I'm with you, OP. A debuff is something like attack, defense or speed stats being temporarily lowered. Poison is a status effect alongside paralysis, sleep, burned, etc.

 

[Deleted member 8468]

I always thought status effects are anything that affect a player, buff or debuff.

Poison is a debuff.

 

[MinerArcaniner]

I mean...I can see it, but I always figured debuffs affected other stats and not health directly.

 

[Ginger Hail]

Is a Status Effect not just a form of buff/debuff?

 

[kubev]

Poison seriously decreases your attack power in Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, so I can understand it being considered a de-buff at times.

 

[Deleted member 426]

Oh I wish I'd voted the other way now.

I would classify poison more as a status effect than a debuff, but if a move 'removes debuffs' id absolutely expect that to include poison.

 

[Phendrana]

However I also wouldn't fault a game designer designating it as a debuff.

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Oh, me neither. Wasn't meaning this as a slight against Slay the Spire at all.

 

[Hella]

Status effects encompass both buffs and debuffs, as well as any other effect. Anything that alters the stats of your characters in an unusual way is a status effect.

Sorry OP, but poison is a (negative) status effect.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Oh, me neither. Wasn't meaning this as a slight against Slay the Spire at all.

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Didn't mean to imply you were. Just that I don't think there's a 'correct' answer and it's ultimately defined by the game.

 

[Zeno]

I'm with you, OP. A debuff is something like attack, defense or speed stats being temporarily lowered. Poison is a status effect alongside paralysis, sleep, burned, etc.

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Yep. This is how I see it.

 

[Dogui]

It's 100% arbitrary. No way to get an objective answer.

I grew up with jrpgs and all of them (that i remember of) divides debuffs from negative effects, so that's the way i learned.

 

[Larrikin]

If its a positive effect, its a buff. If its negative, its a debuff. Whats not to understand?

 

[DrArchon]

Poison is just another kind of DPS in most games (SOTN not withstanding). It's not like Paralysis or Defense down where the DPS gain depends on the rest of your kit. You know exactly how much you're getting out of Poison.

 

[unholyFarmer]

Good question OP. Your friend got it wrong by saying it is "common knowledge". My reasoning is the following:

- Poison as an ailment that damages the character overtime: not a debuff, just like sleep or confused status are not a debuff.

- Poison as a status that weakens your character, by reducing str, hp etc: debuff

- In case you have both: ask a quantum mechanics specialist

 

[jon bones]

no, it's a DoT

 

[NoblesseOblige]

If its a positive effect, its a buff. If its negative, its a debuff. Whats not to understand?

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clearly it's not as objective as you seem to think it is given the nearly 50% split in votes

 

[Velocity:Design:Comfort]

Nah, you're right OP. Think pokemon. Poison does not change a pokemon's stats. Think FF. Poison does not change the turn order or their damage amount.

A debuff would change those things, but poison doesn't.

 

[Velocity:Design:Comfort]

no, it's a DoT

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only in real time games

 

[Aeana]

Is regen a buff?

 

[Chettlar]

I agree with you. Poison is Damage over Time, which is a form of attack.


A debuff is not an attack on it's own. It is an attack that affects other attacks or other abilities.

Causing damage over time is not a debuff, it's damage...over time. A debuff would be something like, all hits now do more damage against this enemy, or this enemies health is capped at it's current health and it cannot heal back up past it, or it's stats are lowered by 10 in all areas for 30 seconds, or it's ability to perform an attack or heal has been disabled. These are things that affect the fight and other attacks and damage received on both sides, but the concept itself is not one of doing damage specifically.


I have always heard the words buff and debuff as "modifiers" to other damage dealers. Causing a debuff to an enemy in many games of all genres can often involve doing no damage at all. But it's the upcoming damage that the debuff is in the service of. Some debuffs feature a small amount of damage, but that's more of a combination of two concepts.


Poison is a noun. It is a thing. It is the damage number, just over time.

A debuff is an adjective. It is a modifier for whatever comes after.

 

[Henchman]

Would say it's a debuff yes but can honestly understand your point !

 

[low-G]

When I'm stabbing enemies with a poisoned dagger I'm actually buffing myself.

 

[Larrikin]

clearly it's not as objective as you seem to think it is given the nearly 50% split in votes

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Granted this is more about the common perception, but

Nah, you're right OP. Think pokemon. Poison does not change a pokemon's stats. Think FF. Poison does not change the turn order or their damage amount.

A debuff would change those things, but poison doesn't.

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I feel like Pokemon is the outlier here that's giving people the wrong understanding that debuff/status are somehow different things.

Statuses are encompassed in the 'debuff' umbrella. Negative Stat Changes and Status Effects are both debuffs.

 

[capitalCORN]

Poison is reverse-regen, so it's a debuff.

 

[LiK]

No, it's a status effect.

 

[Larrikin]

No, it's a status effect.

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e.g Final fantasy, all buffs and debuffs are "Status effects" like haste, slow, doom etc. Status Effects are buffs/debuffs.

 

[Giever]

I would generally consider it to be a status ailment or effect, but also I think it makes sense for a game to group them all up under debuffs if it suits the purposes of the game.

 

[Actinium]

All persistent negative effects are debuffs, all persistent positive effects are buffs. You can split them up into sub catagories but i feel like you almost never see those divisions along the lines of debuffs and dots, more often it's things like afflictions, curses, ailments, more like in-universe terminology while 'debuff' is an out of universe catch-all gamer word.

 

[Ira]

Buff and debuffs are just positive and negative status effects, and those encompass all kinds of effects. I'd say it's common knowledge, but I guess sometimes they're treated as separate concepts even though the distinction strikes me as sort of arbitrary.

 

[Anno]

Yes. Any lingering effects that help you are a buff, any that harm you are a debuff.

 

[Quad Lasers]

Unless it's some kind of trait that is always present(aka "This character gets +5 heal after every turn" or something), I would consider anything that temporarily and passively hurts/help you to be a debuff/buff.

 

[Truly Gargantuan]

If Regen is a buff, then it's opposite, Poison, is a debuff.

 

[hydruxo]

Anything that has a negative effect on the player / enemy for a period of time is a debuff. So poison is a debuff.

 

[Rubblatus]

The default expectation should be that a Poison is a Debuff. The term Status Ailments/Effects only has value in games where buffs/debuffs exist that can carry across multiple battles if they're not addressed, like Poison and Sleep in Pokemon. They warrant the extra distinction in that context because the normal behavior for buffs/debuffs in Poklemon is otherwise stat manipulation changes that reset after being dispelled, expire naturally, or having the fight end.

That's how I've always used it, anyway.

I'd consider it a DOT unless it impairs the enemy in some other way. However I also wouldn't fault a game designer designating it as a debuff.

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I dunno. Every MMO I've played doesn't even bother to make a distinction between DoTs and debuffs in the UI.

 

[Minsc]

Debuf. No question about it personally.

Any negative condition is a debuf, as are negative status effects.

 

[sleepnaught]

My MMO experience tells me it's a DOT

 

[Griffith]

I can see logic in it being either one. It depends on what type of poison it is. If it is a poison that is debilitating in some way like causing your character to miss more attacks it would be a debuff. If it is a poison that damages the character over time it could both be considered a debuff since it's slowly reducing the character's HP but also it is a status effect. I don't mind it being either one provided the rule is consistent.

 

[Etrian Darkness]

You captialised Poison so I can only think of the Final Fight character. Also it is basically a debuff, because it isn't exactly a positive thing to have.

 

[capitalCORN]

It's also a debuff since it can be inflicted outside of combat and tends to be character specific. Not so much with DOTs.

 

[kamineko]

I use the terms interchangeably

 

[Rotobit]

I'd say "Status Effect" first, but it's still technically a debuff.

Some games also have poison directly lower things like speed, too. Can't remember any off the top of my head but pretty sure that's a thing.

 

[MrMegaPhoenix]

I feel buffs are things that affect stats and elemental resistances. It's the type of thing that makes you think strength or weakness.

Poison, blind, frozen, paralyse,etc aren't the same. They are more suited to being afflictions that change your status, not strengths.

That being said, different games call things differently

 

[Vex]

Just chiming in to say that enemies in Slay the spire can be bullshit. The game literally creates enemies to combat your build. When I figured this out, I lost all interest in replaying after getting one win with each character.

 

[Deleted member 5359]

I'm pretty sure I've seen it go both ways: some games require specific spells or potions to remove poison, where in other games a generic "clear all debuffs" spell or potion also includes poisons.

Don't have a strong opinion either way, as long as it's consistent within a particular game.

 

[Mr. Genuine]

You need better friends, OP.