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Would sony been as strong in late 90s if Nintendo had secured the Final Fantasy franchise?
- Thread starter SantaC
- Start date
It just depends on too many factors. To me, the biggest is that we don't really know what an N64 version of FF VII would have been, so it kind of begs the question of would FF VII have been the enormous success it was if it wasn't on PS1. Maybe it would have been the Castlevania 64 to PS1's Symphony of the Night.
I had both a N64 and PS1 later. I was perfectly content with the MP offerings and platformers on the N64 and I likely wouldn't have thought about getting a PS had I not seen my step brother play through FF8. I didn't care for Tomb Raider, I never thought Crash was a good game (especially when you had great 3d platforming games on the N64). I really liked syphon filter and MGS but I wouldn't have bothered if it wasn't for the JRPGs. FF was absolutely a selling point for me. I look back so fondly on that first experience that I can't help but smile now. I miss the old FF formula a lot these days.
You have the causation backwards. 90's Squaresoft was successful because the original Playstation was such a hot ticket item. Not the other way around.
It sold over 100 million. It would've been fine without the Final Fantasy games. Especially with all the other great games on the system.
This is how I feel. It wasn't JUST squaresoft, they basically triggered other devs, including Enix, to cut away from Nintendo as well. It was a big deal as Nintendo had a huge hold back then.
Personally I don't think the final fantasy games on PS1 are very good at all so yeah I'd say it would still be really strong with the likes of Metal Gear Solid, Castlevania and the like.
What many young gamers didn't know is that the Sega Saturn was beating the Playstation in Japan.
Final Fantasy 7 was the reason that reversed that fact.
After that, many developers decided to follow the Square Soft Tsunami and chose Playstation over Saturn.
So saying X game or Y game would have allowed Sony to reach 100 millions units anyway is not correct. Many games wouldn't exist on Playstation if Square didn't change the destiny of Sony in Japan (japanese productions were huge at the time).
Without FF7, things wouldn't be entirely different but Sega would have been in a better shape being bankable in Japan, and Nintendo would have faced a less powerful rival.
Sony would have remained powerful, but fate would have been different for Sega and Nintendo.
Final Fantasy 7 was the reason that reversed that fact.
After that, many developers decided to follow the Square Soft Tsunami and chose Playstation over Saturn.
So saying X game or Y game would have allowed Sony to reach 100 millions units anyway is not correct. Many games wouldn't exist on Playstation if Square didn't change the destiny of Sony in Japan (japanese productions were huge at the time).
Without FF7, things wouldn't be entirely different but Sega would have been in a better shape being bankable in Japan, and Nintendo would have faced a less powerful rival.
Sony would have remained powerful, but fate would have been different for Sega and Nintendo.
If Nintendo had released the N64 including the 4MB expancion pack + a CD reader, the story would have been completely different.
Exactly. It's not like Square brought FF7 exclusively to the PSX then continued to make games for Nintendo. As I said earlier in the thread, Nintendo lost Square as a third party developer, meaning all of their games, not just FF, were exclusive to the PSX. It took them years to recover that relationship and only this year will they receive their first official (not counting FFXV pocket) numbered Final Fantasy since six 25 years ago, and even then it's old PlayStation ports including, ironically, Final Fantasy VII.
It's a weird concept to think about, because Square getting enamored with the amazing storage space of the CD format and then leaving Nintendo was a direct consequence of what made Sony become a rival in the first place. Nintendo and Sony were working together on their CD drive, and Square had started developing for it, with Secret of Mana taking full advantage. Then when Nintendo canceled the Sony CD drive without warning, causing Sony to decide to go it on their own and make their own game console, and after that Nintendo canceled the Phillips CD drive without warning, they left Square in the lurch with their CD projects, having now wasted a lot of time and effort, knowing how so much better games on CD could be than on cartridge. So when Sony announced their CD-based console and Nintendo announced their cartridge-based console, that's when Square jumped ship and convinced their friends to do so as well (and Nintendo reportedly told them "and don't come back!").
So it's weird to think of a timeline where Square stays with Nintendo but Sony still becomes a rival. I guess maybe it could have happened if Nintendo had stuck with the post-Sony Phillips deal and kept with CD drives.
So it's weird to think of a timeline where Square stays with Nintendo but Sony still becomes a rival. I guess maybe it could have happened if Nintendo had stuck with the post-Sony Phillips deal and kept with CD drives.
Well, not exactly.
Final Fantasy 6 was already a multi million seller and fans were growing in the west.
It was already a hit.
Playstation made of it a mega hit.
But for sure, the console maker chosen by Square would have made huge profits by the game itself and events that occured because of Square influence at the time.
For instance, journalists were talking about Dragon Quest on Saturn as huge rumour. Many of them in europe thought FF7 phenomenon played a role to convince Enix to finally join Sony. Last chance of Sega to survive and reach the Skies of Japan was dead. Nintendo was in little trouble too.
Yeah man, FF7 didnt solely sell 100m consoles. Back then it was a movement for sure. it still would have been seen as a juggernaut. The games were cheaper than the cartridges and there were so freaking many. Good lord. The number of decent mid tier titles was overwhelming.
Ahahahaha, this is hilariously wrong.
No. FF7 was massively anticipated even before the generation of consoles had even come out. FF6 and its predecessors being the best in the genre made FF7. The Playstation did not. People and magazines were going nuts over what was to come long before any character designs, dev info or details were known about the game. Loooong before the first clip of FMV showed up and more.
You are talking about a multi million selling rpg. The first or one of the first to manage to do so in the west and east IIRC. It was not "made" by the PSX any more than OOT was "made" by the N64. Those franchises had histories of greatness. Thats why they were anticipated the way they were.
Ahahahaha, this is hilariously wrong.
No. FF7 was massively anticipated even before the generation of consoles had even come out. FF6 and its predecessors being the best in the genre made FF7. The Playstation did not. People and magazines were going nuts over what was to come long before any character designs, dev info or details were known about the game. Loooong before the first clip of FMV showed up and more.
You are talking about a multi million selling rpg. The first or one of the first to manage to do so in the west and east IIRC. It was not "made" by the PSX any more than OOT was "made" by the N64. Those franchises had histories of greatness. Thats why they were anticipated the way they were.
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Square legitimized the PS1 in a lot of people's eyes. People who were like "It was a CD Player", yeah so was the Sega CD. I don't know if every single developer that eventually developed games on the PS1 go on to develop for Sony if Square wasn't there leading the charge.
It may have changed the landscape a bit for Sony. the Squaresoft golden age would be impacted more.
Nintendo had higher entry costs for game creators, so we might not have seen as many RPG's at first.
I bought a PS1 for Twisted Metal 2.
Nintendo had higher entry costs for game creators, so we might not have seen as many RPG's at first.
I bought a PS1 for Twisted Metal 2.
The thing that would have changed things is Nintendo not using cartridges and not launching a year later than the competition.
Nintendo gave Sony a win on a silver platter. The monstrous momentum Sony had with the PS1 also carried over nicely into the PS2.
Nintendo fucked up big time with the N64. Three extra games wouldn't really change this.
Nintendo gave Sony a win on a silver platter. The monstrous momentum Sony had with the PS1 also carried over nicely into the PS2.
Nintendo fucked up big time with the N64. Three extra games wouldn't really change this.
Yep PS1 made FF a mega hit .
Yeah it used to sell millions before but we talking about 2 plus times sales numbers for FFVII compare to before.
Not to mention the amount of money Sony put into marketing it.
Same for me. If Nintendo would have kept Square, i would have chosen Nintendo 64 like 95% of my otageeks friends at the time. (And i'm not saying that as a Nintendo loyalist, i'm a Sega Nuts)
Yeah, all of you all are wrong here.... Selling multi millions worldwide IS already a hit. This is like saying Halo 3 was made by the console because it sold a magnitude more than its predecessor. Thats not how it works. Halo 1 and 2 made the franchise huge and anticipated. A franchise "breaks out" when it starts doing multi millions worldwide. It can further grow from there is marketed properly and improved upon, but give the company credit where its due.
In Europe, Wipeout with techno music was big.
I remember us gathering at a friend that had a playtation to play wipeout and resident evil.
Personally I was playing on PC at that time but I remember having fun with wipeout at his house.
It was really ingrained in the culture here in the late 90s just like Nintendo was in the 80s, early 90s.
I remember us gathering at a friend that had a playtation to play wipeout and resident evil.
Personally I was playing on PC at that time but I remember having fun with wipeout at his house.
It was really ingrained in the culture here in the late 90s just like Nintendo was in the 80s, early 90s.
But halo 3 did not sell magnitude more than its predecessor .
Halo 2 sold over 8 million .
Your talking about give a company it's due when it was Sony marketing that help FFVII sell such huge amount to begin with .
You talk about WW but Nintendo was not even big in EU and Sony is who made consoles huge over there .
If you want you can say PS and FF help each other but PS1 would have been big without FF .
EDIT i should also add that a series selling big in one region don't mean it will do it in others DQ is perfect eg of that .
MH is another perfect eg of hardware helping a series grow by huge amounts .
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If anything FF would have suffered and not become as big as it did, which was in large part due to the presentation and production the CD format allowed them to put into the game.
Sony still had their low licensing fees as an advantage. That's why nearly everyone jumped ship from Nintendo.
FF didn't mean much outside Japan at the time and FFVII, which boomed the series due to CG background and cutscenes couldn't have got the same attention in the west on the N64(ie without the CG stuff). So no, it wouldn't have mattered much. Even in Japan, PS still had a lot of big hits outside the FF series.
Suquare would have hurt way more than Sony if they stuck with Nintendo.
Suquare would have hurt way more than Sony if they stuck with Nintendo.
I think FF was unknown
It easily would've. Square are not a big deal in the west.
It does and always will, long as you're outputting at the same res, rendered cutscenes will always take more space than real-time ones.
Yeah they would have, big part of their success was the branding. Playstation wasn't just for kids and teens (PC was for nerds), they aimed to get new demographic (they succeeded). The Guardian in example has written bit about it. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/dec/03/how-playstation-infiltrated-youth-culture
Of course having Final Fantasy didn't hurt, but it would had been a huge hit even without it. Nintendo wouldn't had been the leading platform even with the help of Final Fantasy.
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Well for one those games would have been incredibly different on the N64. They could have absolutely not have been what they were on PS1, so it's like comparing apples to oranges. The amazing FMV sequences (at the time) and the marketing surrounding them is what sold Final Fantasy to the mainstream masses. RPGs were still very niche games back then, and an FF7 on the N64 would probably have been just as such.
If all other factors were held constant, then FF staying with Nintendo would have led to the N64 being marginally more successful and the Playstation being marginally less successful.
Like others have said, Nintendo's cartridge decision effectively took them out of the running. Many iconic PS1 games simply weren't possible on the N64. Add licensing and manufacturing costs, and the N64 becomes a very unattractive platform for many 3rd-party developers.
It was a really bad decision. I recall being frustrated by Nintendo as a company that I really wanted to do well. N64 had great games, but it could have been so much more than it was.
Still, PS1 turned out to be a great platform and good for gaming. Circle of life and all that.
It was a really bad decision. I recall being frustrated by Nintendo as a company that I really wanted to do well. N64 had great games, but it could have been so much more than it was.
Still, PS1 turned out to be a great platform and good for gaming. Circle of life and all that.
I actually don't know. I want to say no, they wouldn't be in quite the same position. Final fantasy 7 was a very, very big deal.
On the other hand, it was Sony who made it a very big deal in the west. Final fantasy was highly revered in enthusiast circles, but final fantasy 7 came out mainstream. maybe Sony could have tried to do that with another game, but I can't think of another suitable franchise.
On the other hand, it was Sony who made it a very big deal in the west. Final fantasy was highly revered in enthusiast circles, but final fantasy 7 came out mainstream. maybe Sony could have tried to do that with another game, but I can't think of another suitable franchise.
The Playstation offered a lot of great games outside of the RPG genre. If Square stayed with Nintendo that might have had a small impact but in the long run I doubt it would change things.
FF7 (or actually Squaresoft in total) definitely created the success of PS1, which, in my opinion, would have ended behind N64 if it hadn't.
Sega CD, Saturn, 3DO, CD-i all had CD drives, it was Nintendo's hold over the big Japanese publishers (plus a few western ones) that created its hegemony. Notably Nintendo, Capcom, and Squaresoft. Nobody was getting around those brands, you had to have a Nintendo if you cared about the future best games. Consoles are always sold on promise. Squaresoft moving over was both a blow and set the sands underneath that promise shifting. It created interest for the Playstation that made people also look at new kinds of properties like Gran Turismo and Metal Gear Solid.
Sega CD, Saturn, 3DO, CD-i all had CD drives, it was Nintendo's hold over the big Japanese publishers (plus a few western ones) that created its hegemony. Notably Nintendo, Capcom, and Squaresoft. Nobody was getting around those brands, you had to have a Nintendo if you cared about the future best games. Consoles are always sold on promise. Squaresoft moving over was both a blow and set the sands underneath that promise shifting. It created interest for the Playstation that made people also look at new kinds of properties like Gran Turismo and Metal Gear Solid.
What is this revisionist history where the PS1's success and its library is reduced to just FF? That PS1, which is arguably among the consoles with one of the best (and most diverse) libraries? What about MGS, Tomb Raider, Tekken, Spyro, Crash, GT, RE, Driver, WipEout and the dozens of other franchises that had success on the platform?Let's say that squaresoft decided to make FF7, FF8 and FF9 exclusivlely for N64 instead of PS1, how would sony fare? Would they even survive going into PS2?
How much of an impact would it been on the industry?
"Would they even survive going into PS2"
Bruh, you have to be trollin