Would Sonic X-Treme have saved the Sega Saturn?

[Uzumaki Goku]

One thing that was notable about the Sega Saturn. It lacked a "true" Sonic title. People instead had to settle with a Genesis port of Sonic 3D Blast. I find the story of Sonic Xtreme's development very interesting. (Yuji Naka rather infamously shook his head and said "Good luck")

Would a true Sonic game have saved the Saturn? Perhaps not... but it might've lasted just a little bit longer if it had released.

 

[sir_crocodile]

Nope, too many other problems.

A great one would have helped (like Mania), but Xtreme wasn't shaping up to be good at all.

 

[Rotobit]

Depends on when it would have launched, especially in the west. If it came too late then the damage would have already been done. The Saturn's problems were more than just its library, really.

I also feel it'd need to be revealed + released before Mario 64 was ever shown because that'd have just been embarassing from a mainstream perspective at the time

EDIT: Looking at it, the space between the Saturn's release in the US and Super Mario 64 being shown for the first time was May 1995 through November 1995.

 

[FormatCompatible]

No. By the time the game came out the system was already pretty much a lost cause in the US, and the game itself never seemed like a big technological leap like Mario 64 so I feel like it would've been perceived as dated too.

 

[Red Arremer]

Not really, no. The Saturn was going to fail regardless of whether it would've had Sonic or not. The reason it failed wasn't exactly software releases (though the slim pickings didn't help it of course), but Sega's floundering with the add-ons to the Mega Drive, which also were basically directly competing with the Saturn, along with Nintendo launching the N64 and the Playstation entering the market.

 

[Uzumaki Goku]

Not really, no. The Saturn was going to fail regardless of whether it would've had Sonic or not. The reason it failed wasn't exactly software releases (though the slim pickings didn't help it of course), but Sega's floundering with the add-ons to the Mega Drive, which also were basically directly competing with the Saturn, along with Nintendo launching the N64 and the Playstation entering the market.

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I must admit.. I do find the story of Sonic Xtreme's troubled development very interesting.

 

[Huey]

I think Sonic Xtreme was a result of all the problematic decisions that Sega was making at the time rather than the cause of them, so imagining a world in which it turned out great is really imagining a whole different system and Sega at the time.

 

[Teh_Lurv]

No, the Saturn as a console was flawed to it's core. People will say how wonderful it's 2D library is today, but back in 1995 it was the wrong console at the wrong time.

 

[Indelible]

Nope, the Saturn was already well behind the PlayStation at that point. it might've given the system a small bump in sales but nothing could stop the damage that was already done.

 

[Unicorn]

A band aid on a dam leaking from a dozen spots.

 

[Deleted member 36578]

I chose the Saturn over the ps1 back then and never regretted it. The system came with Virtua Cop, Virtua Fighter 2 and Daytona USA!!!!! A new Sonic would've been cool but Sonic Jam was a kick ass collection so I already had my Sonic fix. There were loads of other games I loved for the system. Even with Dreamcasts Sonic Adventure, which was a killer launch title, no single game could save a sinking ship that was Sega at the time.

 

[Uzumaki Goku]

Honestly... wasn't the Sega Saturn's early surprise launch (which seemed like a brilliant idea but turned out to be a boneheaded decision) what helped kill it?

 

[Deleted member 36578]

Honestly... wasn't the Sega Saturn's early surprise launch (which seemed like a brilliant idea but turned out to be a boneheaded decision) what helped kill it?

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Lots of things didn't help it, and that was one move that didn't do it any favors either along with a high price. Playstation came into the scene and took a lot of the public mind share. That vast majority of my friends bought a ps over the Saturn.

 

[Sir Hound]

Some 3D Sonic game should have been there at launch. It was madness to make and release anything else before. But that's easier to say in hindsight.

 

[NZerker12]

Nope but if Sonic Mania or Sonic Robo Blast 2 were on there probably.

 

[Borman]

No, Sonic X-treme barely existed on Saturn at many points of its development. What they were making at different points wasn't great, and certainly wasn't a cohesive game that could even get close to Mario or Crash, or many other titles.

 

[andymcc]

No. If the system would have have a coordinated launch in the west with a Sonic title in the launch window, it would have helped. SEGA should have had Japanese talent working on a Sonic game back when they were developing the system in 1993. SEGA Japan didn't see the forest through the trees with regards to Sonic's popularity and basically letting SoA use unproven/new teams to develop their premiere franchise was, quite frankly, dumb as hell.

No, the Saturn as a console was flawed to it's core. People will say how wonderful it's 2D library is today, but back in 1995 it was the wrong console at the wrong time.

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I think if the Saturn had launched closer to the PS1 and at a lower price point (like the PS1), it would have made a bigger difference. It NEEDED to launch with EA sports titles and could have afforded to have more localized Japanese titles.

 

[KillstealWolf]

Sonic Adventure didn't save the Dreamcast, why would Sonic X-Treme have saved the Saturn. Dreamcast had a lot more going for than Saturn ever did.

 

[Gartooth]

No, the instances where a single game saves a platform are pretty rare. The Saturn was already at a disadvantage so if Sonic Xtreme was good it wouldve held the game back if anything.

Mario 64 is a far more mindblowing game in 3D than Sonic Xtreme and it didnt allow for the N64 to beat the Playstation. Heck the N64 pretty much failed in Japan. Comparing the prototype of Sonic Xtreme to Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot wouldnt have done that game favors back in 1995/1996.

 

[AfterTheFall]

I was so annoyed it was cancelled at the time.

 

[Dr. Collins]

Nothing could have saved the Saturn. Just like nothing could have saved the Wii U. Sometimes hardware just doesn't turn out well, and the timing just isn't right.

 

[Deleted member 24079]

The Saturn in the US was just not going to work in a market with ps and n64. Arcades were already losing steam and arcade quality games at home don't seem as cool as 3D worlds the others offered.

 

[GamerJM]

It probably wouldn't have even been that good of a game. It always looked like something on the tier of Sonic 3D Blast to me.

 

[andymcc]

It probably wouldn't have even been that good of a game. It always looked like something on the tier of Sonic 3D Blast to me.

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Yeah, I was a huge Sonic fan as a kid and it never looked very appealing. I wanted the Saturn for Virtua Fighter lol

 

[Dr. Collins]

I was so annoyed it was cancelled at the time.

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Not only canceled, but never even really left the early prototype stage. They went through so many different gameplay styles to find something that would work.

 

[crpj31]

Basically Saturn failed because the bad relationship between Sega Japan and Sega USA.

 

[captmcblack]

$399 Sega Saturn surprise release alongside 32x and friends is what did it, not an absence of Sonic Xtreme.

If it released at launch, it would've been unremembered as the rest of the gen unfolded. If it released in 1996, it'd have been obliterated in the wake of Mario 64/N64. If it released in 1997, the shadow of FF7 would've blotted it out. By 1998, even if the Saturn was still Sega's future, PS1 and N64 were approaching the peak of their power.

In short, a new Sonic game would've helped (even if it was just a new high-quality 2D game like Mania), but nothing was going to change how that gen went.

 

[Kaydigi]

X-men versus street fighter in the US would have helped Sega immensely

 

[sibarraz]

Not really, no. The Saturn was going to fail regardless of whether it would've had Sonic or not. The reason it failed wasn't exactly software releases (though the slim pickings didn't help it of course), but Sega's floundering with the add-ons to the Mega Drive, which also were basically directly competing with the Saturn, along with Nintendo launching the N64 and the Playstation entering the market.

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I disagree with the software not being one of the main reasons than the Saturn failed. Sega Lord X did an excellent analysis of it

 

[andymcc]

I disagree with the software not being one of the main reasons than the Saturn failed. Sega Lord X did an excellent analysis of it

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The Saturn appealed to Japanese tastes way more than the Mega Drive/Genesis. I chalk it up to the popularity of VF/VF2 and Sakura Wars.

 

[Warszawa]

Nah, wouldn't have made a jot of difference. As has already been said in this thread, Sega Xtreme was the result of the same mistakes and the rifts going on at Sega that led to the Saturns failure in the first place. Sega couldn't compete on integration, costs, developer support, market distribution or market price.

This wasn't a tough enemy in the form of Nintendo like before, this was Sony's Playstation which completely changed the industry from top to bottom. It seems quaint but Sony had everything lined up in place to engulf the market.

Sega could have course corrected a few mistakes and made a better attempt at release but the Saturn was always going to be an also ran and bitter pill to swallow for overseas markets.

 

[EinBear]

It's still so crazy to me that the Saturn never had a (proper) Sonic game.

The story of Sonic X-Treme's development has been told so often that it's become this accepted thing that's easy to just sort of gloss over.

But then you take a step back and it's just INSANE to think that Sega never got their shit together enough to release a game from their flagship series on their flagship console.

 

[andymcc]

It's still so crazy to me that the Saturn never had a (proper) Sonic game.

The story of Sonic X-Treme's development has been told so often that it's become this accepted thing that's easy to just sort of gloss over.

But then you take a step back and it's just INSANE to think that Sega never got their shit together enough to release a game from their flagship series on their flagship console.

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SEGA of Japan just basically wanted to focus on Virtua Fighter. It was huge in Japan, even if its success wasn't nearly as close overseas.

 

[Aaron]

Nope. Even if it was one of the greats (which, given its troubled development history, seems doubtful even if they did manage to release something), Saturn was just bogged down by too many other problems for one killer app to totally turn things around.

The three most superficial things that could have helped the Saturn out a little in the U.S. - having a solid, exclusive Sonic title that could stack up against Mario and Crash, ready to go by Christmas '96, launching at $299, and not bothering with that stupid early launch that upset more people than it made happy. I think those factors combined would have at least given it a more solid foothold.

But none of that would have countered out the more fundamental problems, that Sony had the cash to turn the PlayStation into a juggernaut, the Saturn was difficult to develop for, Sega had burned too many bridges with the 32x (seriously, change any one thing about Sega's history as a console maker and they come out looking a lot better if you just nix the 32x), etc.

I do also kind of wonder what would have happened if Sega had their ish together for Square to decide to go with Saturn for Final Fantasy 7, as they were originally considering. Sony's design documents were much more thorough and finalized which is what won them over on the PS1.

It's still so crazy to me that the Saturn never had a (proper) Sonic game.

The story of Sonic X-Treme's development has been told so often that it's become this accepted thing that's easy to just sort of gloss over.

But then you take a step back and it's just INSANE to think that Sega never got their shit together enough to release a game from their flagship series on their flagship console.

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It hurts to know we didn't get a full game out of this:

I tend to agree with a point TheGeekCritique made about this though, I think Sega could have made a great game featuring Sonic on the Saturn, but the tech probably wasn't there to even try and approximate the Genesis gameplay in 3D (Adventure 1 tried doing this moreso than any other game in the series). Because obviously even Sonic Jam's Sonic World section wasn't really trying to do that, it was just cool playing around with Sonic in a 3D space.

 

[Red Arremer]

I disagree with the software not being one of the main reasons than the Saturn failed. Sega Lord X did an excellent analysis of it

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I mean yeah. What I meant is that it wasn't just the software that was the issue.

 

[andymcc]

I do also kind of wonder what would have happened if Sega had their ish together for Square to decide to go with Saturn for Final Fantasy 7, as they were originally considering. Sony's design documents were much more thorough and finalized which is what won them over on the PS1.

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i'd say the Saturn's abysmal video playback codec didn't help either. can you imagine what some of the highly beloved pre-rendered scenes from FFVII would have looked like? game probably would have had to have been bundled with the MPEG cart.

 

[Virtua Sanus]

Arguably the best Mario game ever was not enough for Nintendo 64 to come even a fraction as close to the original PlayStation, so a super messy, low quality Sonic game (which X-Treme absolutely was on the way of becoming) had no chance of doing much other than maybe having SEGA America abandon it at a slightly later date.

Sony doubling down on third parties and promoting them on the same level as their own stuff is the best thing the PlayStation did for it's success honestly. Nintendo and SEGA did not know how to compete, and Nintendo only really was able to get any North American foothold by focusing so hard on shooting and sports games.

 

[AgonyRon]

Back in the days I thought the screenshots looked awesome, but now I've seen in in motion it seems like gameplay would have been very very boring. I kknow they went for 2D with 3D elements, but the the 2D part was not even close to the original Sonic games. The 'not so real' 3D doesn't add anything at all to the Sonic formula.

 

[sir_crocodile]

It hurts to know we didn't get a full game out of this:

I tend to agree with a point TheGeekCritique made about this though, I think Sega could have made a great game featuring Sonic on the Saturn, but the tech probably wasn't there to even try and approximate the Genesis gameplay in 3D (Adventure 1 tried doing this moreso than any other game in the series). Because obviously even Sonic Jam's Sonic World section wasn't really trying to do that, it was just cool playing around with Sonic in a 3D space.

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It looked great for the time, but that was really hard to control to do the tasks even for the small sandbox, so I kind of understand it.

Sega have never ever worked out how to get Sonic right in 3D

 

[Aaron]

It looked great for the time, but that was really hard to control to do the tasks even for the small sandbox, so I kind of understand it.

Sega have never ever worked out how to get Sonic right in 3D

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I'll always point out SA1's efforts to make the 2D Sonic gameplay work in a 3D space:

And frankly, the only reason it's aged poorly is 1998 jank, they absolutely could have made something great if they'd kept honing in on this type of gameplay and level design and improving it. SA2 shares a lot of the same foundations but its levels are generally far more linear and emphasize spectacle.

...however to redirect to the topic at hand, it also demonstrates pretty well why you were probably never going to get a good, 3D Sonic in line with the Genesis series on Saturn. It probably would have needed to be severely limited in scope compared to something like SA1, which still only barely scratched the surface of taking those 2D principles and design philosophy and trying to make it work in a 3D space.

 

[sir_crocodile]

I'll always point out SA1's efforts to make the 2D Sonic gameplay work in a 3D space:

And frankly, the only reason it's aged poorly is 1998 jank, they absolutely could have made something great if they'd kept honing in on this type of gameplay and level design and improving it. SA2 shares a lot of the same foundations but its levels are generally far more linear and emphasize spectacle.

...however to redirect to the topic at hand, it also demonstrates pretty well why you were probably never going to get a good, 3D Sonic in line with the Genesis series on Saturn. It probably would have needed to be severely limited in scope compared to something like SA1, which still only barely scratched the surface of taking those 2D principles and design philosophy and trying to make it work in a 3D space.

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SA1's camera was so bad it was unreal

 

[Combichristoffersen]

No. The Saturn had far too many problems, and the 32X and Mega CD had burnt too many bridges. A Sonic game with a weird fish-eye lens view wouldn't have been able to save the Saturn.

 

[andymcc]

I'll always point out SA1's efforts to make the 2D Sonic gameplay work in a 3D space:

And frankly, the only reason it's aged poorly is 1998 jank, they absolutely could have made something great if they'd kept honing in on this type of gameplay and level design and improving it. SA2 shares a lot of the same foundations but its levels are generally far more linear and emphasize spectacle.

...however to redirect to the topic at hand, it also demonstrates pretty well why you were probably never going to get a good, 3D Sonic in line with the Genesis series on Saturn. It probably would have needed to be severely limited in scope compared to something like SA1, which still only barely scratched the surface of taking those 2D principles and design philosophy and trying to make it work in a 3D space.

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i've had this game since japanese launch and had no idea you could get on the buildings like that lmfao

SA1's camera was so bad it was unreal

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and the launch Japanese one has an EVEN WORSE camera...