Uhh, the M+ thing wouldn't do shit and neither would ML. This just reads like YOUR wishlist of things you hate and want gone.
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World of Warcraft: Shadowlands |OT| Anima Crossing: New Prison
- Thread starter Prophet Five
- Start date
- Activision/Blizzard OT
- Status
M+ gearing is fine. The things that frustrate me though would be farming Soulletting Ruby and Unbound Changeling every season because they still end up being the best trinkets for me. It doesn't feel good having to farm the same trinket that you already own because the ilvl artifically got bigger.
That being said, what Blizzard has to do is re-evaluate gear drops in raids, because currently M+ yields far more gear than what you currently can get out of a raid. I think a very simple band aid would be to just bring back bonus rolls. That should bring it closer to M+.
That being said, what Blizzard has to do is re-evaluate gear drops in raids, because currently M+ yields far more gear than what you currently can get out of a raid. I think a very simple band aid would be to just bring back bonus rolls. That should bring it closer to M+.
One change I would definitely make to m+ gearing is the addition of some kind of currency that lets you upgrade the ilvl of a piece you have from M+. Say you have a ring from a +5 but want to upgrade to +10 - you spend X currency but also you only have the ability to upgrade any item to the max level of m+ you have done.
I am staunchly against any "gear from this specific activity should only be relevant to this specific activity" system. I think that's just makes player stratification worse and is basically the devs giving up.
I am staunchly against any "gear from this specific activity should only be relevant to this specific activity" system. I think that's just makes player stratification worse and is basically the devs giving up.
Valor upgrades are a good system, but the one frustration I have is that the Valor cap should be dropped after like 2 months into a new season, tops. The most hardcore players have already cleared the hardest content by that point. There is no need to keep dragging things out.
Bonus rolls or have bosses drop tokens (in addition to gear) for everyone and at X amount of tokens you can just straight up buy a piece of gear. I also think they should change tier sets to not be restricted to certain slots, and instead just be equip any 2/4 pieces of armor from the raid. Makes it quicker for casual/normal raiders to get access to set bonuses, and helps out world first at the same time. Also, catalyst open the first or second week of Mythic.
Ok so I guess I'm confused then. The system I mentioned in my previous post would explicitly prevent needing to re-farm m+ trinkets you already have since you can upgrade them. Do items from previous seasons have a hard cap and only current season items can be upgraded with valor?
Yeah, you can't upgrade an item from a previous season higher than it would have been able to go in it's original season.
Valor does make it pretty easy to refarm trinkets if you really need to though, since you can run the key at literally any level and hope for a drop you can upgrade. (Valor has also been a good thing for getting people to run keys of all levels for this reason.)
FWIW avoiding the feeling of reframing trinkets is why they're doing a different set of dungeons each season for 10.0, so that's already kind of the solution there.
I think one of the bigger problems is situations where you need to farm That One Item for whatever reason - usually that's trinkets, because trinkets vary wildly in effectiveness, although weapons are also occasionally a thing. Right now the best tank trinkets for me right now are the Hakkar one from DOS - which requires a low-chance roll on a dungeon run, or an even lower-chance roll from the vault - and probably the Mythic version of the trinket from The Nine last raid, which is content people just aren't going to be doing on a regular basis, and there's still the drop chance factor.
M+ is great for general gearing, but it's not great for *specific* gearing, and inappropriate loot is less likely to find its way to someone else deserving than happens in a raid. That is where raids have the *potential* to be a better source of gearing - not as good for the individual, but better for the team - but it's not really working out like that.
Edit: ToTheMoon : of course, the risk with that is the last-season-trinket-is-better-than-any-this-season-offering issue I just mentioned!
M+ is great for general gearing, but it's not great for *specific* gearing, and inappropriate loot is less likely to find its way to someone else deserving than happens in a raid. That is where raids have the *potential* to be a better source of gearing - not as good for the individual, but better for the team - but it's not really working out like that.
Edit: ToTheMoon : of course, the risk with that is the last-season-trinket-is-better-than-any-this-season-offering issue I just mentioned!
That's a fair concern! Hopefully they'll be quite aggressive with balancing trinkets from older dungeons in Dragonflight to minimize the chance of it happens.
whats this about everything being account wide? are they making your character's gear account wide like Diablo? that would be dope.
like imagine if you wanted to change to another dps or another healer, and you could just use the same gear (well assuming they can wear the type of armor)
like imagine if you wanted to change to another dps or another healer, and you could just use the same gear (well assuming they can wear the type of armor)
No. Gearing won't be account wide, they explicitly mentioned that as one of the exceptions. He meant stuff like Dragon Riding for alts, story progression, some reputation stuff (but, again, you wouldn't get gear you receive when it got rewarded on your main) etc.
It's more a first step rather than a 'hey, everything is account wide now, enjoy!'
Pruning raid difficulties is something that needed to happen years ago
Can someone explain the loot lockout he is talking about here? is it just that a character can never get the same piece of look twice?
In ff14, you can get 1 piece of loot per boss a week, but can keep killing it until you get something
how does that work for guilds? do they just keep killing something until everyone gets a piece of loot? Raids in FF14 are also smaller right?
Man it took 280 loots of Scale Belly to get that damn sword, all that for a transmog I probably won't ever use lol.
There's no way that doesn't become just as degenerate as what we have now.
That's not true for current savage content, only for normal mode
Normal mode you can kill the boss as many times as you want until you get a piece of gear off of it and you are limited to one piece of gear per week (until the next patch hits, then there is no weekly limitation). 8 pieces of gear drop from a boss and there are 8 raiders, so unless you are targeting something, you'll only have to do it once. You can keep on killing it after you get loot, you just wont get any loot.
For savage mode (the highest difficulty excluding the ultimate fights), you have one chance to get loot on the boss per week. If you don't get it, then too bad. try next week, but everyone does get a pity token that you can trade for gear once you collect like 4 to 8 of them. After your one attempt at loot, you can still keep on killing the boss if you want to, whether its just for fun or to help someone else out.
How is that any different than running an infinite number of splits? Other than the fact they don't have to pay people to trade.
Yeah... that was my first thought as well. I have a hard time imagining this not being a massive pain in a raid that's larger than a handful of bosses.
What Piecake says makes sense though. Like this system would be fine for LFR (shorter wings, auto-filling groups if someone leaves after a boss, less powerful loot). But for traditional raiding, with raids that have the size and progression style that WoW players are accustomed to... you wouldn't just be able to copy over that system.
(Also worth noting, again, that the number of players who actually partake in this system on the same level as World First raiders is vanishingly small compared to the larger WoW player base. Doing something for them that ends up hurting the rest of the game is a bad move.)
Gratz!
In ff14, you can join a savage raid every day of the week and kill all of the bosses with completely different groups and it doesnt matter. You are not locked into a raid or group as There are not restrictions besides you not being able to get loot after your first boss clear for the week. You will also lessen the amount of loot that people will get if you join a savage group and have already cleared it for the week. If like 4 or 5 people have cleared it for the week, and they join a group with 3 to 4 people who havent cleared it for the week, no loot will drop. The 3 to 4 people will only get the weekly pity token
That won't really change the behavior though, they'll still spam an endless number of splits on lower difficulties in order to gear up for mythic.
True, I imagine Scripe wants it because he just thinks it will make that easier and less of a hassle to do. He also might be want this for mythic difficulty as I think i remember hearing that heroic and mythic gear is done differently. (havent played WoW since Wrath, but the announced expansion sounds like something I might actually be interested in)
Gear in FF14 really doesnt matter all that much. There is no gearing up as savage raids are tuned to be cleared week 1 with penta-melded crafted gear. Savage content is still a challenge and only really good groups kill it week 1. The purpose of gear in ff14 is help weaker players and weaker groups eventually clear it without needing nerfs (though it is still a challenge as only like 10 to 20% of the players clear the savage tier before the next savage raid tier).
Gear for ultimates dont really matter at all because you can't outgear it as your gear is scaled to a specific number. FF14 just released the newest ultimate and that 1 fight was killed in like 7 days. (only like 1% of players clear these).
I don't have experience with FFXIV end-game but are the raids filled with trash mobs or does it jump from boss to boss? I was watching Arthars prog through the new Dragonsong's Reprise(?) and it looked like they could just queue in and were straight into a boss arena. I think this is more of a different case than say a normal raid in WoW that lives in the world - but are all the FFXIV raids like this?
I also agree that catering to the tiny small percent of players is detrimental - I think that's something that Blizzard (and other companies that run live service games) have had trouble wrapping their head around. Because streamers/esports players have such a big platform but represent a small % of the playerbase, a lot of the discussion is skewed in what is actually necessary or healthy for the game(s). The community and development then gets splintered on what to focus on - the larger casual fan base or the esports/competitive scenes. I don't think Blizz has ever successfully managed either in all cases that we've seen (WoW, SC2, OW, HotS). Hearthstone is maybe the closest I've seen to some parity and balance between the two but even then there have been large periods of time where there was discontent through the community.
Hot intake incoming:
I like raid trash. There ARE some raids where it's overdone, but when done right I like the pallete refresh trash grants between raid bosses. Also, when done right, raid trash gives a preview of the mechanics of the upcoming boss...
I would not like it if the game just got rid of trash.
I would not like it if the game just got rid of trash.
There are no trash in modern ff14 8 man raids. Over an expansion, there are 3 tiers of savage 8 man raids with each tier having 4 bosses. Each of those bosses has a separate instance that you queue up separately and it will take you right to the boss.
24 man alliance raids are different. the 24 man raids are more casual and is around normal difficulty. The new one you queue in, and do like 4 bosses and there are 2 mini-bosses inbetween the bosses as well. So yea, that is more like a WoW raid experience except there is a lot less trash and there are a lot of teleport checkpoints so you dont have to walk through the whole damn place if you wiple
I personally would like to see ff14 add some trash and some space to the ff14 normal 8 man raids as I think it sets a vibe and an atmosphere (they did do this for the first 2 8 man raids, but got rid of it during their 2nd expansion). For example, the new 8 man raid is literally you going deeper and deeper into an area that has a shit ton of experimental monsters. Its just kinda weird that you only see 4 boss rooms.
For savage, i love the you queue up and you are right there at the boss because I certainly dont want to walk all the way back and do all that crap after I wipe for the 20th time, lol
Definitely - I think having a full raid environment with NPCs that aren't just bosses is one of the better things about WoW raids. They help tell a story and give a more lived in immersive experience. Something like Dragon Soul was so rough in LFR and running through it for loot (never did it in Normal or higher) because it was basically a series of bosses but there was still trash and you just teleported everywhere. So it was like worst of both worlds. Castle Nathria had an awesome feel to it and while there was a fair bit of trash it still felt great to run around in and feel like it was a full designed castle.
Thanks for the info - what are the rewards/gear like for the different raids? I read someone say that the top tier are only competing for cosmetic rewards and not actual gear upgrades? I wonder if that method would work for WoW - the best guilds would still do the content since there are new mechanics but the gear gulf will just be more stablised across patches
savage raids still reward the highest available gear, but there's equivalent gear that can be earned through tokens and trading-in upgrade items. BIS for a given job is always going to include some savage gear, but it's not necessary to do it to keep up with the high end.
the main difference is that there isn't any meaningful world or instance content where gear impacts performance outside of those same savage raids, which is partially why that wouldn't be a 1:1 fit for WoW
Which is why I think that they should just allow a skip (like the boss skip they currently have). Kill a mini trash boss for 6 weeks, collect 6 fragments or w/e, turn it into a NPC in the raid, and they'll kill all the trash for you.
Raids without trash at all would just feel....empty.
The reason it was such a big deal this time was because of the tier bonuses that got added, those things were a huge DPS bump when you got them.
That said, you can't really fix the RWF through raid design. These guilds will do whatever it takes to get any edge they can. The only way to fix it will be to set some kind of rules, either through the guilds themselves deciding on guidelines anyone who competes must follow or Blizz just taking over and making it like MDI, and short of that anything else would just be band-aids that don't address the real issue: that these guilds will abuse literally any game mechanic they can in order to win the race.
Yea, the ultimate raid is the hardest content and the reward is essentially just cosmetic and a title. If you see someone walk around with "Legend" in their title somewhere, you know that the've cleared one of the ultimates. You can think of the utlimate as like a 15 to 20 minute boss gauntlet around end boss mythic difficulty (just a guess).
Ultimates are item scaled as well, so the ultimates released like 8 years ago are still really challenging (though they are easier due to class changes and consumables). If WoW did that and just got rid of some of the filler mythic bosses, then theyd have a bunch of evergreen aspirational content that you could do any time you wanted, even 3 patches later and it would still mean something.
And like you said, it would also be a lot less work for Blizzard too as balancing would be much less of an issue and they wouldnt have to worry about creating new stat items for mythic as it would be all cosmetic. It would also stop the degenerate behavior of the RWF guilds as if it is item scaled, then gear really wouldnt matter, just skill.
I was actually reading about that achievement a few days ago and was dreading doing it, only to realize I did it on a character back in 2010 haha
See if anyone has any suggestions here. I just noticed 2 of my characters out of 30 have some kind of auto loot on. I went into the interface settings and made sure that it is not enabled there and it isn't. I have reset settings to default, turned off add ons, done everything I could possibly think of but these two characters still auto loot no matter what. No others do, the only thing I can think of was these two were boosted from an expansion boost at some point, so maybe that turned something on I can't see. Anyone have any idea?
Playing through BC using chromie time, I think it is still disappointing the Arakkoa never became a playable race. I would say Ethereals as well, but at least with them they don't have a huge amount of customisation and armor options, so that might be too boring. With Allied Races they should go nuts; who cares if there is like 30 of them.
Raid Rewards Experiments in Season 4
Today, we’d like to share some of our rewards plans for Season 4 regarding the acquisition and effectiveness of Raid gearing overall. As we head from 9.2’s Class Sets & Creation Catalyst into Dragonflight, our team has been doing a lot of thinking about our rewards philosophies, including...
us.forums.blizzard.com
"It's worth noting that the systems we'll be talking about today are designed around specific goals to fit with Season 4's shorter runtime"
Still think Blizzard believe they have a decent chance of launching DF in 2022 and that's why we didn't even get a release date mentioned.
I don't think they'll hit it but I believe in it more than the (crazy!) people who are saying q2 2023.
I don't think it will either. I think it'll be Feb/March 2023, and with the pipeline in WoW, that is perfectly fine.
Sepulcher February > September
Fated September > January
January Season 4 ends, prepatch
Raid Rewards Experiments in Season 4
Today, we’d like to share some of our rewards plans for Season 4 regarding the acquisition and effectiveness of Raid gearing overall. As we head from 9.2’s Class Sets & Creation Catalyst into Dragonflight, our team has been doing a lot of thinking about our rewards philosophies, including...
us.forums.blizzard.com
Hilarious. So the upgrade items are only available on specific difficulties: If you want the heroic version of an item, you must kill 20 heroic bosses, same for mythic. And people thought Blizzard would finally give us a fun system to get cool gear by dropping heroic upgrade items on normal difficulty and mythic upgrade items on heroic difficulty.
What are they thinking? The number of players is probably at a record low, there is no new content and it's the end of the expansion - and they still can't be bothered to make gear acquisition easier for casuals? Any hope I had for Dragonflight just disappeared. It will be exactly like the last few expansions. Want good gear? Better do Mythic raids, Mythic+ dungeons or rated PVP. Because fuck casuals. I'm out.
Why would they ever drop higher difficulty loot on lower difficulties? What's the point in running Mythics if it doesn't reward the highest gear? This is not about 'fuck casuals', this is simple 'get reward for the difficulty you play on'Raid Rewards Experiments in Season 4
Today, we’d like to share some of our rewards plans for Season 4 regarding the acquisition and effectiveness of Raid gearing overall. As we head from 9.2’s Class Sets & Creation Catalyst into Dragonflight, our team has been doing a lot of thinking about our rewards philosophies, including...
Hilarious. So the upgrade items are only available on specific difficulties: If you want the heroic version of an item, you must kill 20 heroic bosses, same for mythic. And people thought Blizzard would finally give us a fun system to get cool gear by dropping heroic upgrade items on normal difficulty and mythic upgrade items on heroic difficulty.
What are they thinking? The number of players is probably at a record low, there is no new content and it's the end of the expansion - and they still can't be bothered to make gear acquisition easier for casuals? Any hope I had for Dragonflight just disappeared. It will be exactly like the last few expansions. Want good gear? Better do Mythic raids, Mythic+ dungeons or rated PVP. Because fuck casuals. I'm out.
But yes, by the sounds of it it's best if you're out. Having unrealistic expectations and blaming the devs for them is not a healthy way to approach a game.
To offer an incentive to the majority of the players so that they keep playing the game instead of quitting?
We are talking about 3 items max here.
Sure, lol. This game right now is purposely designed to cater to a small minority of Mythic raiders/Mythic+ players.
Yes, me and most of the player base.
The incentive is right there: do the more difficult content, get rewarded justly. Easy enough.
Nowhere am I saying their proposed system is flawless or should be implemented as they're talking about now.
Is it? Do explain how. I would call myself a casual, I don't do Mythic +, rated PvP or mythic raiding. I do a social raid a week, do the weekly objectives if they reward gear and open the vault. Am at 260+ ilvl and that's plenty to do all the content my casual ass wants. But I guess, because I'm not rocking a solid 270+ ilvl that means Blizzard sucks and doesn't pay mind to the casual playerbase? Quite a leap for me.
Most of the player base does not share your opinion on this.
But again, quit if you want. For me it's simple: tie the best gear to the highest difficulty content, scale down from there. Gear I receive should prepare me for harder content out there, not immediately scale me past. That makes the content itself useless.
It's obvious you don't see it that way though and that's fine. Enjoy the WoW-less life with the masses.
Yeah, I don't want to attack anyone here, but if you don't plan on doing Heroic and Mythic raiding, what's the point of getting that level of gear anyway? You can get gear that's good enough for all of the content just from questing and maybe doing a few low level keys. I'm on ilvl 250 and the highest key I've done is a 6 and haven't even touched the raids on anything other than LFR. In the questing zones I melt everything in my path already.
I get the desire to be the strongest your character can be, but at some point it becomes pointless to keep gearing up if you don't intend to do higher level raiding.
I get the desire to be the strongest your character can be, but at some point it becomes pointless to keep gearing up if you don't intend to do higher level raiding.
I really like this system. It represents what Blizzard tried to do with titanforging (getting raiders engaged with farm content), and it also in a way fills the void left by not having bonus rolls anymore.
Also, I wonder if existing BoE's will still be flagged as BoE when they drop off their Fated boss' respective loot table.
Also, I wonder if existing BoE's will still be flagged as BoE when they drop off their Fated boss' respective loot table.
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