I'm in the same boat that I couldn't give a shit if NPC'S have routines and lives. The difference here is that CDPR told everyone that NPC's would have daily routines and they knowingly lied.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Wood Hawker (BeatEmUps) Review of CyberPunk 2077 rips into CDPR lies
- Thread starter VyechnayaSlava
- Start date
I'm in the same boat that I couldn't give a shit if NPC'S have routines and lives. The difference here is that CDPR told everyone that NPC's would have daily routines and they knowingly lied.
Honestly even if I like the game, it's very apparent that some people are putting their hands over in their ears when it comes to criticism of it. This video alone has so many receipts, that E3 video is full of stuff that they never said was taken out but wasn't in the final product. Elements removed that would have made it the " living, dynamic world" they kept promising.
Btw , "I'm taking it as is , I didn't follow the promises of the Dev's nor the development cycle" is not a valid defense of the product. Maybe get up to speed on why so many people are critiquing the game the way they are
Even if the developers didn't promise thing, the lack of any dynamism from NPCs is a problem in a game that is so reliant on its world. Nobody would have cared if each NPC didn't have a home-life and all that, but the fact that they are literally nothing more than scenery with a list of different states-of-being that can be counted on one hand does harm the game's immersion-factor. For instance the fact that Pacifica, Night City's supposed 'bad side', is literally the exact same in terms of danger as the place named "Corpo Square," should be a blatant example of this. The game literally does nothing to actually make the world outside of story quests seem like anything but a theme park, and so people take notice and see that as a detriment.
And whilst those specific routines in RDR2 don't truly matter, stuff like being able to do outlaw stuff and have NPCs actually react to you, or not being able to go to certain areas if you've got a high-enough bounty on your head, or being able to greet or be a dick to people on the street; they all contribute to a game that allows more role-playing than the supposed role-playing game that is Cyberpunk.
But you're right, nobody does care in Demon's Souls! Must be hypocrisy, right? Maybe if games didn't have different aims and goals and can, therefore, be disappointing for different reasons. It's like running up to the stage at The Oscars and calling out the entire film industry as hypocritical because they gave Parasite the Best Picture award despite its utter lack of riveting fight scenes.
Even if you truly don't care about any of this; people do, and in all likelihood the things you care about in Cyberpunk 2077 aren't things that everyone cares about either. That's how the incredibly diverse and completely nonsensical world of 'video-games' has worked for decades.
critique away all your want, no one is telling you not to , nobody is defending the lies or broken promises,
people are just saying they enjoyed the game.
Maybe because it's a video game. Basically interactive toy. Different people having different expectations. For some highlighted issues will be a dealbreakers, some won't notice or won't give a damn
It literally has a water marked disclaimer that its a work in progress, that was only made public because the media went berserk with praises.
OP
OP
Again, things were promised to be in the final game. If those things couldn't be done, and had to be removed after being shown off since it was a "work in progress", be transparent and tell your customers not to expect what was shown.
Despite my enjoyment of the game (I think it's an 8/10), the 2018 gameplay trailer featured so many things removed from the final game that just made it looks like a cheap knockoff when they are compared. CDPR studio heads rushing this game was their own downfall.
Just talking about the E3 demo. They did say wall running was out. They should be called out for the things they promised in interviews.
Still one of only two games (PC version) I really enjoyed this year (other being THPS1+2), but I didn't pay attention to any of the marketing bullshit and I also didn't want an open world GTA~esque game either. I'm sure its a horrible disappointment for people who bought into this game being the second coming of video game Jesus but that doesn't mean the game is *bad* (outside of the obviously broken console versions), its just nothing revolutionary.
Glad to see we're finally allowed to post Cyberpunk topics outside of the main thread though :)
Glad to see we're finally allowed to post Cyberpunk topics outside of the main thread though :)
Nobody said it was *bad*, they just said it's not good. If you enjoy this 6/10 game then that's fine, everyone has their mediocre games they enjoy. Sometimes I just like playing Dynasty Warriors.
Crossing Eden it's been too long! Glad to see you pop up. I can see where some of the praise is coming from but you have to block out completely your expectations of what the game promises to be and what the game actually is. If you can not focus on all it's faults and put your blinders on then by all means enjoy it but you can't defend the game at all.
The technical mechanics of the game is simply less than mediocre compared to the other big open world city based games, which could be totally fine if the game wouldn't be so unpolished and buggy.
This video is excellent, but, (and this is probably OT) are CP2077 threads OK only if they drag the game? Or is the moratorium over?
People disliking the game doesn't mean they were expecting "the second coming of Jesus" either.
But good for you, glad you've enjoyed your very pretty, horrendously buggy, "competent" at best open world adventure game.
Was about to ask this. Why do multiple CP2077 threads get a pass if they're negative?
Been wondering the same. Several threads not too long before this have been locked and don't get why this is an exception.
Also how much of the video are spoilers? I've been wanting to watch but apparently there's spoilers?
He got the free stuff too, doesn't mean you can't talk trash about it.
This wasn't sent to him by CDPR, it was sent by a viewer who sends him a ridiculous amount of gifts.
Great video from Wood, been following him for years but sort of fell off recently since his current style usually isn't my jam.
User warned: Metacommentary
Yeah I been wondering the same
Only negative threads are allowed lol
Welcome to Era.gif
I am amazed so many reviewers gave this game such high scores (lots of 9s) given that the game seems to objectively be poor on multiple systems, they weren't permitted to show their actual gameplay experiences, and lots of the issues outlined in this video are prevalent and ingrained in the code. Makes me not really want to trust reviews on AAA games when they don't seem to be very honest about the quality of a game.
They were only sent the least broken version (PC) to review and a lot of them mentioned it was buggy but a solid game underneath. Plus I'd assume a lot of outlets mostly played the main story which is arguably the best parts of the game .
It's really shifty that CDPR hid the console version before and should have cancelled the last-gen base consoles
Lots of game reviewers seemed to conflate 'glitches' with just really bad game design, so it was good to see someone call this out specifically
I figured, but, thought I'd try and get some clarity on the inconsistency.
Interesting
The PC version suffers all of the issues shown in the video.
And Cyberpunk only plays bad on last gen consoles.
I haven't played Cyberpunk 2077 but some of the criticisms in the portion of the video I could be bothered to watch seemed so asinine. Who cares if you can't browse shops like you can in RDR2? Did anyone really go and look at the individual items on the shelves more than once before going straight to the catalogue? As far as I'm concerned it's a textbook example of pointless AAA bloat creating unnecessary work and setting ridiculous expectations.
Also I'm really tired of seeing videos comparing what you can do in GTA5 compared to this. They obviously have completely different goals and while I appreciate that elements of Cyberpunk's AI are clearly substandard, even non-existent, things like car chases in GTA5 constitute a huge chunk of the game. Tell me how things like dialogue trees and ability to approach missions in different ways are in GTA5. It's almost like different elements are important in different games and they have therefore been given completely different levels of focus by the developers.
Also I'm really tired of seeing videos comparing what you can do in GTA5 compared to this. They obviously have completely different goals and while I appreciate that elements of Cyberpunk's AI are clearly substandard, even non-existent, things like car chases in GTA5 constitute a huge chunk of the game. Tell me how things like dialogue trees and ability to approach missions in different ways are in GTA5. It's almost like different elements are important in different games and they have therefore been given completely different levels of focus by the developers.
Well they did play the Pc version for the initial reviews. And my experience with it (even on a lower end PC ) have been great so far. I know people are hating on this game hard for some reasons that are very justified, but some of the other reasons arent an issue imo. Yeah it doesnt live up to the hype but most games dont. Im really digging this game so far.
The console versions seem to be absolute trash so that is a shame. Hopefully it gets the next gen update soon at least for Series consoles and PS5.
It's a valid excuse. The wider point is that all stores and interaction with NPCs is all equivalent to each other with zero uniqueness.
There's a lot of ways to skin that cat without going as far in-depth asRed Dead Redemption 2.
Like we've pointed out again and again, the comparisons are there because CDPR didn't just say that they wanted to emulate Rockstar or Ubisoft but actually designed a world that was meant to have equivalent levels of sandbox interactivity. They specifically called out Red Dead Redemption 2 at one point.
Obviously Rockstar doesn't have the "dialogue trees" because that's not part of the project scope or even game design. It's not meant to have it.
Comparing this game with GTA5 makes perfect sense, that's what they were aiming for. I was just listening to a dev saying how they wanted to make the players feel absolutely immersed in Night City and how they wanted to make the city as believable as possible, so that was an extremely important element of the game.They were aiming for the king, if you will, and they didn't simply miss the weapon backfired terribly. Not to mention GTA5 came out the previous gen... and, as mentioned in this thread already, there are some elements in this game that are outdated compared to GTA3...
There is a case to be made that the individual elements of this game wouldn't be as great as in games solely dedicated to them. For example, gunplay wouldn't be as good as Doom or the cinematic as good as The Last of Us 2. I have some reservations about this but it makes sense. But the problem isn't that 2077 is not as good as those games, it's terrible in even the most basic asepcts of open world design, cops being the best example.
The point of his shopping rant is that it's one of the many examples of how backwards and noninteractive the game is. It breaks the illusion that this city and its citizens are real. The lack of police chases add to that. It's absolutely ridiculous that police can't get in a car to chase you or at least send drones after you. What's the point of even having wanted system if it's so easy to get away? They marketed this game as this revolutionary, ridiculously immersive experience and these two things are some of the evidence that contradicts that promise. Obviously it's a video game but immersion matters to a lot of people in a game like this.
That was a great video...I just can't believe that none of the review scores reflected this before the whole debacle began.
So many reviewers gave high reviews when the issues raised in this video are in all versions of the game.
This whole debacle has made me question certain reviewers now.
So many reviewers gave high reviews when the issues raised in this video are in all versions of the game.
This whole debacle has made me question certain reviewers now.
I watched the entire thing, which is pretty rare in my case when a video is this long. Wood Hawker really went all in, so glad I didn't buy Cyberpunk even though I own a Series X.
I usually stay on the positive side of gaming, but I must say this game looks really, really bad. It's a glorified talking simulator.
I usually stay on the positive side of gaming, but I must say this game looks really, really bad. It's a glorified talking simulator.
GTA5 didn't come out on the previous gen. It was a PS3/Xbox 360 game.
The fact Rockstar can keep printing money by re-releasing the same game for what is going to be three generations of platforms is a testament to the sandbox they created.
The fact Rockstar can keep printing money by re-releasing the same game for what is going to be three generations of platforms is a testament to the sandbox they created.
CDPR literally marketed the game as the next gen of open world, and all those comparisons do is show how much they missed the mark and even fall short of games decades old.
In the video, the promotional clip speaks of the "armored" car.
There is no such thing in the game, right? Every car from the laughable Smart, to the taxi (that is bulletproof in cutscenes), to the big rig have always resulted in me getting damage from the basic police/gang fire.
There is no such thing in the game, right? Every car from the laughable Smart, to the taxi (that is bulletproof in cutscenes), to the big rig have always resulted in me getting damage from the basic police/gang fire.
CDPR specifically cited RDR2 themselves, and they also referred to Cyberpunk as being an open-world game. "An open world, action-adventure" to be more precise.
What "open world, action-adventure" game should Cyberpunk be compared to then? The latter Far Cry games? Because even GTA3 is doing fundamental open-world things *at a bare minimum* that this game doesn't, and I'm not sure how much of that you can just level at "It's almost like different elements are important in different games".
You cant really have a true next gen experience when you are releasing on last gen consoles. This game hasnt done anything that i feel couldnt have been done before but its still very immersive and a really cool experience so far, imo.
Like people saying the game is absolute trash....its far from that. It might not meet your expectations and sure they hyped those unrealistic expectations but i dont think the game should be labeled trash because it isnt a true next gen experience. Especially when we havent gotten a true ng experince.
I guess some people were expecting this to be that game. It isnt. But trash? I wouldnt say that.
Like people saying the game is absolute trash....its far from that. It might not meet your expectations and sure they hyped those unrealistic expectations but i dont think the game should be labeled trash because it isnt a true next gen experience. Especially when we havent gotten a true ng experince.
I guess some people were expecting this to be that game. It isnt. But trash? I wouldnt say that.
You should really watch CDPR's marketing videos for this game. They are interspersed in the Wood Haker video here. The reason the comparisons exist is because all of their marketing materials suggest it was going to be *at least* equivalent to those experiences, and more frequently far better. More dynamic, more personal, more intimate.
It turned out most of that was either (a) marketing bullshit that was based in real goals...but never corrected the marketing to match the reality of the final product or (b) intentional and just a poorly executed slight of hand (illusions of choice in dialogue or situation outcomes) to get people to believe the game was going to be something more. Something worth spending money to upgrade your PC/console to maximize.
It was not what they proposed or promised. It fell incredibly short by all accounts.
Can you still have fun with it? Sure! If you want to love something enough, you can ignore the faults and only see the best parts. You can have a "rose-colored glasses" experience if personal insecurity demands it. Plenty of people loved Anthem too and did their best to ignore the obvious flaws in the game. "low-sodium" subreddits and all that bubble shit. I've loved plenty of terrible games (and music and movies), difference is I have no problem acknowledging them as such. Like with Star Citizen, some just can't help but to treat this products as their own creations/children and have defended the game at every pass and from every critique.
Ya hate to see it.
This game makes WD Legion look like the next-gen open-world experience. Its open-world mechanics are inferior to those of PS2 GTAs. There is nothing to do with this open-world. Literally, outside of being a walking simulator admiring the visuals, what is there to do in the open-world outside of quests?
As far as shop section goes, this is what the Ripperdoc menu looked like in the original demo
And this is the menu in the final game
Even if they couldn't animate every single upgrade you'd get at the Ripperdoc, the original menu design kept you in the world as you select what you wanted while the new one just throws you to a separate menu.
But you can build an experience that elevates its genre, Cyberpunk doesn't do that.
In regards to the bolded i just gotta say "Clearly."
The different paths dont' really matter here, the AI is so truly broken that it effects everything else in the game and half of the sell of Cyberpunk 2077 was "Night City" and how immersive and advanced and carefully crafted it was.
Going into the shop and having the shopkeep talk to you in a natural way, with multiple voice lines that change depending on things like time of day and all that, goes a LONG way towards making you feel like the world is real. Going to the same vendor multiple times and not only do they same the exact same thing every single time but there are no "shops" just menus? Yes - it's fuckin substandard compared to other AAA open worlds.
We aren't comparing this game to pie in the sky high dreams and hopes. We're comparing it to other AAA games - some of which are fucking 5+ years old. "But but but this isn't a sandbox! This is an ARRPEEGEEE" .... an RPG set in an open world. A sandbox world if you would. And it's nothing but empty, hollow but oh so pretty garbage.
It's kind of wild to me to say things like "You can't expect cyberpunk to have cohesive half decent open world because they have skill trees and conversation paths". like actually yes - we totally can. If you're trying to make a game in a gigantic city where you use a car to get around then probably all the AI in your cities citizens should probably know how to fuckin drive.
It might look excessive or like wild criticism just to jump on a bandwagon but when you actually move around this world and try to enjoy it these things start to stick out brighter than all the neon .
And these are the big obvious things. I'm playing on a PS5 - this game has crashed 30+ times for me so far but it doesn't hold a candle to how junior league this world/gameplay mechanics feel. There are so many little things that pull you out of the game. They are definitely folded in alongside some cool characters and creative missions but godamn... you have to really work sometimes to ignore all the things that feel like they are missing.
The more I play the worse my score gets in the end. Feels like a 6.5 right now. I was going to try and finish up some more of the gig missions and stack a bit more cash together to look for cool clothes for the final mission or something like that but I think i might just finish this up as there doesn't really seem to be any reason to hang out in Night City anymore.