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Wood Hawker (BeatEmUps) Review of CyberPunk 2077 rips into CDPR lies
- Thread starter VyechnayaSlava
- Start date
There is no "patching things as promised" with this game. A lot of the flaws & missing features (that they lied about) pointed out in the video would require fundamental re-design of game systems and engine features that you may as well make a new game in the process.
What a clusterfuck of a production. CDPR's management had no fucking clue what they were doing and promising.
What a clusterfuck of a production. CDPR's management had no fucking clue what they were doing and promising.
Can they? Sure, anything's possible with enough time. Will they though? Doubtful. There's just a toooon of shit to fix.
It seems like even as a Telltale game it would fail, if it's true that barely any of the dialog choices actually have any effect on anything. That seems like a major point of Telltale games.
Like LA Noire has an open world that's largely pointless, but that game is more about the story, interrogations, searching for clues, and occasional shootouts.
I think at the end of the day you can't completely ignore what the marketing, devs, and publishers say about a game prior to release, that's definitely going to influence someone's views of a game.
Haven't played the game, but the more I see and hear about it the more confused I am by the flurry of 9 and 10 reviews it received before launch. What happened there? Are game reviews predicated more on hype and expectations than the actual state of the game? It just seems bizarre that so many critics either didn't notice or didn't mind all these glaring issues.
Exactly, this isn't some Geralt doesn't have good movement. After watching that video I actually have new respect, on top of existing respect, for a lot of open world games in the past (some shown in the video).
Side note never saw this streamer before but this was a shocking well done video and the song was a nice surprise at the end (I mean it's not good, but that kind of not good that wraps around and is good again kinda thing).
Will start by saying: if a dev lies about features, that's wrong and fucked up and they deserve to be criticized.
However, Cyberpunk is another example in a long line of examples of why media blackout is the best way (for me) to experience things. I decided a while ago that if I know I'm going to play/watch something, I don't watch trailers. I haven't watched a single piece of Cyberpunk marketing since around March, and I fucking loved the game. I think people forget that these companies that make the things they love are just that- companies, in the business of making money and no other business. I don't trust a single word from most of these people.
Cyberpunk is a great fucking game (I played on PS5), that is buggy as hell. As someone who loved Fallout 3 and Skyrim (and The Witcher III at launch), I wasn't particularly bothered by the jank.
Whatever, hate the game if you want, but the backlash has been a bit extreme.
However, Cyberpunk is another example in a long line of examples of why media blackout is the best way (for me) to experience things. I decided a while ago that if I know I'm going to play/watch something, I don't watch trailers. I haven't watched a single piece of Cyberpunk marketing since around March, and I fucking loved the game. I think people forget that these companies that make the things they love are just that- companies, in the business of making money and no other business. I don't trust a single word from most of these people.
Cyberpunk is a great fucking game (I played on PS5), that is buggy as hell. As someone who loved Fallout 3 and Skyrim (and The Witcher III at launch), I wasn't particularly bothered by the jank.
Whatever, hate the game if you want, but the backlash has been a bit extreme.
I've finished the game and I really don't think so. At best they could maybe drag it from a 5 or 6 out of 10 up to a 7 but no patch or DLC is going to fix its fundamental problems. Like, I guess you can patch the bugs, the crashes, the missing sound effects and even the AI but how do you fix the dogshit tech tree, the bland as fuck world, the worthless dialogue choices, the bad level/mission design or the shitty filler littered across the map?
If you rush through the main story you can finish the game in ~15 hours (add another 5 for the important side quests) and the illusion holds up pretty well, especially if CDPR has assured you that any bugs/glitches you experience will be hammered out by the day one patch. Don't get me wrong, I think those reviewers have thrown away any credibility they had just to get some day one clicks, but I can kinda understand why it happened. It's the 9s and 10s the game has received AFTER launch that make me laugh.
Anyway, great review, I shared a lot of his opinions. All the talk of base console performance, bugs and crashes is a distraction from what honestly isn't a particularly good game.
OP
OP
So much this. CDPR apologists like to claim that things will be fixed, but the only way to fix this turd is a from the ground up overhaul
This video is hilarious and has to be in the running for the best thing to come from the release of this game. I played the song at the end multiple times it was so catchy and the glitches were so amazing.
Cyberpunk 2077 is definitely 2020's Anthem. Glitchy, shallow, built on lies with huge promised features removed, but defended by some people because of the story and atmosphere.
Edit: I think the most disappointing thing to me is "choices" having zero effect on the game. Is that actually the case or did the guy in the video just not realize things can play out differently??
Cyberpunk 2077 is definitely 2020's Anthem. Glitchy, shallow, built on lies with huge promised features removed, but defended by some people because of the story and atmosphere.
Edit: I think the most disappointing thing to me is "choices" having zero effect on the game. Is that actually the case or did the guy in the video just not realize things can play out differently??
I enjoyed the video, but the song really sealed the deal for me.
There is only so much they could do. But what surprised me about the video is actually problems with the content of the game. It makes me think that the initial reviews of the game was too soft on it. What a disaster.
There is a lot of truth when he says its a shame the bugs and performance issues are overshadowing the actual issues with the game itself from a design standpoint. This game was not ready to be launched due to its lack of polish, it wasn't ready to launch as a whole. It was an extraordinarily ambitious idea that can't be executed in four years of development.
That was a pretty damning video -- I thought that Cyberpunk's problems were just that the last-gen versions ran like crap, and that it had a fair amount of open-world jank. Hawker takes a deeper look, and shows that features from the game are completely missing, and that both the glitches and the scaled back design goals represent problems that won't be solved with a few months' of work and performance patches. The boring/pointless skill trees and limited body-mods are maybe the most depressing parts, since I thought this was supposed to be a game where you were supposed to tailor your character to how you wanted to play, and unlock game-changing abilities through cybernetic upgrades. Instead it seems like CDPR spent the last year or two completely homogenizing the game so that you can just blaze through it without bothering or thinking about how you want to shape your character.
To be fair though, I suppose this is a problem that many open world games face -- they want to provide the semblance of character upgrades and progression, but in order to accomodate 10M+ players and development deadlines they have to design a title where customization doesn't mean jack shit. Similarly, branching stories and dialogue options are irrelevant and all lead you down the same path because there simply isn't enough time or manpower to provide wildly divergent options.
I was previously mildly optimistic that CDPR was going to make things right with a few months' worth of patches and DLC, but now I really have no idea how they are going to dig themselves out of this hole.
To be fair though, I suppose this is a problem that many open world games face -- they want to provide the semblance of character upgrades and progression, but in order to accomodate 10M+ players and development deadlines they have to design a title where customization doesn't mean jack shit. Similarly, branching stories and dialogue options are irrelevant and all lead you down the same path because there simply isn't enough time or manpower to provide wildly divergent options.
I was previously mildly optimistic that CDPR was going to make things right with a few months' worth of patches and DLC, but now I really have no idea how they are going to dig themselves out of this hole.
Wow. I've seen the thumbnails for this person before and have seen a few of their videos. I never thought that they would produce this type of thorough takedown. It was obvious before that game reviewers (especially big sites) were just PR Hype machine extensions, but damn its embarrassing to see the 9s for this game all the same. PC version being reviewed is no excuse.
The section that breaks down just how much of the main story is basically non-interactive talking scenes is really damning. I played about eight hours on PC before getting a refund, intending to rebuy the game in a year or so to play the it at its best rather than rush through it at its worst, but there's a lot more wrong with this game than just bugs to fix.
Not entirely through it still got 10 mins to go but this is a great video. Makes a lot of good points and backs them all up.
Still personally my GOTY.
Still personally my GOTY.
If Hello Games could salvage No Man's Sky then CDPR can definitely do some good work on Cyberpunk.
I think they can definitely fix the problems with limited/pointless skill trees and upgrades, but issues with the story and narrative progression probably aren't worth the time and effort. Similarly, the glitches and jank can be smoothed over but I doubt that they are going to get Keanu Reeves and all the other voice actors back in the studio to provide more fleshed out missions and branching options.
Except that Cyberpunk seems like a failure regardless of whether you compare it to other RPGs or other sandbox/open-world titles. As an RPG, the character progression/customization isn't there, and neither is the story or dialogue options. As an open-world game, the NPC citizens and police simply don't measure up to similar games from nearly a decade ago.
After putting 60 hours in Cyberpunk it has way more in common with GTA than it does an actual RPG.
Valhalla is a deep RPG compared to Cyberpunk. Maybe Valhalla with cars is a more apt description.
Should every NPC be unique, and operating on its own particular daily schedule? No, that is probably not feasible. But maybe don't talk about it in the marketing materials if you can't deliver it.
That said, does this game even have any NPCs that are following a regular schedule? Maybe at least named characters or mission-givers? This video gives the impression that everyone in the game is either a static mission-giver, dialogue-box, or a zombie streetwalking NPC. Maybe Wood Hawker is just omitting examples of "working as intended" NPCs, but it seems like he is pretty charitable.
I got a decent deal on a physical PS4 copy that I had foolishly opened, so I was planning to sit on it until some more patches came along. After watching this review, I am definitely regretting not exchanging it for a refund when I had the chance. You can't just patch so many of these problems.
How in the world this game had originally scored a 91 on metacritic before the console problems came to light really shakes whatever faith I may have had in most review outlets.
Moreover, seeing how big of a step backwards from Witcher 3 this is in so many respects really makes me wonder what exactly happened at CDPR over the last few years (beyond the known problems like developer crunch, transphobic themes, social media issues, PR blunders, etc.).
Has any other major developer fallen this far, this fast in recent memory? Feels like a decade of reputation was erased in a matter of 2-3 weeks.
How in the world this game had originally scored a 91 on metacritic before the console problems came to light really shakes whatever faith I may have had in most review outlets.
Moreover, seeing how big of a step backwards from Witcher 3 this is in so many respects really makes me wonder what exactly happened at CDPR over the last few years (beyond the known problems like developer crunch, transphobic themes, social media issues, PR blunders, etc.).
Has any other major developer fallen this far, this fast in recent memory? Feels like a decade of reputation was erased in a matter of 2-3 weeks.
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Around 20min where he talks about the dialogue choices not mattering depending on class or what skills you level up, is that true? Seems dumb.
Also the part at 24min about crit chance & crit damage is wrong, but the gun still has + crit chance on it so it does seem like a whatever skill.
Also the part at 24min about crit chance & crit damage is wrong, but the gun still has + crit chance on it so it does seem like a whatever skill.
From a purely visual standpoint it is absolutely like nothing else. And thats what their wheelhouse is.
Everything else though is garbage.
It sounds Australian mixed with American. I'm guessing he's an Aussie who has been living there for a while and started to emulate the language.
Maybe it's his voice then because I keep thinking something close to a very articulate Joey Wheeler
I was also put off by the marketing and their attitude, but I figured I'd at least play this later for $20-30 since I do really love Witcher 3. Patches aren't going to fix this stuff though, these issues seem wildly fundamental.
User Banned (2 weeks): Misrepresenting moderation policy and downplaying concerns about transphobia
can't even say anything the guy says is wrong but after 120 hours playing the game it's still my goty and i would rate it a 9/10 as of right now. the score is definitely going to go up once the bugs are fixed and expansions come out. from my three friends who bought the game on steam not a single one thinks the game is bad or wants a refund. even in it's buggy state, steam reviews are mostly positive after almost 300k user reviewes so the game must be doing something right.
it's true that marketing kinda lied about this game. it was a mistake to try to sell this as a cyberpunk gta when in reality the game is cdpr's take on a ubisoft open world style game and they should have communicated it like that from the start.
that said you also have to blame yourself a little if you expected cdpr to combine the best of gta, deus ex, far cry and witcher all on a massive scale and on their first try. i myself also overhyped the game little but once i accepted the game for what it is and not for what marketing told me or what my own unrealistic expecations were i could feel how much love and effort was poured into this game. it's probably the best ubisoft open world game ever made. why? because first of all night city is one if not the best location i've ever seen in a video game. after 120 hours my jaw still drops on the floor everytime i ride through downtown on my akira bike with the radio on. no ubisoft game ever made me give a shit about any characters i interact with while here i love panam, judy, jackie, johnny and all the other ones. once the game was over i felt sad and empty because i wanted to spend more time with these characters, a feeling i usually only get from a good book that i enjoyed or some of the best rpgs like persona. the main story is fantastic. lots of side stories are fantastic and memorable. i love the gangs, i love the car designs and it's insane how much detail they put into the design of night city. as someone who was dreaming of walking around in a open world cyberpunk city ever since i read neuromancer when i was 14 years old it is literally a dream come true. the gunplay feels really good once you level up. when the game clicks and plays like a open world deus ex human revolution on a massive scale with a more satisfying story and characters you actually care about there is nothing else like it and you don't give shit if there is great police AI or not. you don't care that there aren't any yakuza like mini games (though i suspect we might still get a gwent equivalent in one of the expansions).
so yeah i love this game and it weirds me out that this site seemingly tries so hard to ruin the fun for everyone who feels the same by only allowing threads shitting on the game to be made but personally there is no way and zero chance i will let that damper my love for this game. can't wait to see what they have in store in the expansions.
it's true that marketing kinda lied about this game. it was a mistake to try to sell this as a cyberpunk gta when in reality the game is cdpr's take on a ubisoft open world style game and they should have communicated it like that from the start.
that said you also have to blame yourself a little if you expected cdpr to combine the best of gta, deus ex, far cry and witcher all on a massive scale and on their first try. i myself also overhyped the game little but once i accepted the game for what it is and not for what marketing told me or what my own unrealistic expecations were i could feel how much love and effort was poured into this game. it's probably the best ubisoft open world game ever made. why? because first of all night city is one if not the best location i've ever seen in a video game. after 120 hours my jaw still drops on the floor everytime i ride through downtown on my akira bike with the radio on. no ubisoft game ever made me give a shit about any characters i interact with while here i love panam, judy, jackie, johnny and all the other ones. once the game was over i felt sad and empty because i wanted to spend more time with these characters, a feeling i usually only get from a good book that i enjoyed or some of the best rpgs like persona. the main story is fantastic. lots of side stories are fantastic and memorable. i love the gangs, i love the car designs and it's insane how much detail they put into the design of night city. as someone who was dreaming of walking around in a open world cyberpunk city ever since i read neuromancer when i was 14 years old it is literally a dream come true. the gunplay feels really good once you level up. when the game clicks and plays like a open world deus ex human revolution on a massive scale with a more satisfying story and characters you actually care about there is nothing else like it and you don't give shit if there is great police AI or not. you don't care that there aren't any yakuza like mini games (though i suspect we might still get a gwent equivalent in one of the expansions).
so yeah i love this game and it weirds me out that this site seemingly tries so hard to ruin the fun for everyone who feels the same by only allowing threads shitting on the game to be made but personally there is no way and zero chance i will let that damper my love for this game. can't wait to see what they have in store in the expansions.
It's actually hard for me to digest this game was sailing at 90+ on Metacritic until the backlash started. What the hell was going on with reviewers?
A change in game development is understanding, they really should've scrapped the big open world and make a smaller city with better designed AI and everything, and you know, inform the customers about it
If Fromsoftware said in the trailer that NPC have their own schedule and everything, then yeah, it should be call out.
CDPR promised a living breathing believable world, and they fail to deliver and did not mention it when it near release.
If Fromsoftware said in the trailer that NPC have their own schedule and everything, then yeah, it should be call out.
CDPR promised a living breathing believable world, and they fail to deliver and did not mention it when it near release.
Can you elaborate? It looks like any AAA open world game, but worse.
Game may be my goty since i am really enjoying it, but i am basically playing it like a linear game with the open world as a backdrop. I just move from quest to quest and do not interact with the (extremely lacking) open world systems. Playing it that way it's a great game imo, but if you want to play around in a living, system driven future city it is straight garbage.
Hype and the desire to be out as soon as possible meaning the main story is just mainlined and there's not a time to digest and see how shallow the whole thing is.
Hype and the expection that this is going to be an amazing game plays a big part I think. There were outlets writing about the enormous number of bugs they experienced, but still gave the game 10/10.
How anyone can praise Keanu's performance with a straight face is beyond me. If it was literally anyone else he would be torn to shreds.
The direct comparisons to CDPR's promotional video are so bad. Class action lawsuit bad.
I was kind of let down by the positive coverage DF gave this game.
Did you watch the video? We are not to blame. CDPR is. They didn't deliver on their own promises.
They didn't 'kinda' lie. They lied. And you can't just blame it on the marketing department.
CDPR lied, and the game is worse for it. Because it needed those promised/shown features to actually be as immersive as you'd want this type of game/setting to be.
If I played this game in a world where games like Red Dead Redemption 2 didn't exist, and CDPR advertised it as what it was - I might have had a higher opinion of the game.
Sidenote: I didn't refund my copy either, despite having the option to. This isn't a for/against situation.
I was kind of let down by the positive coverage DF gave this game.
Did you watch the video? We are not to blame. CDPR is. They didn't deliver on their own promises.
They didn't 'kinda' lie. They lied. And you can't just blame it on the marketing department.
CDPR lied, and the game is worse for it. Because it needed those promised/shown features to actually be as immersive as you'd want this type of game/setting to be.
If I played this game in a world where games like Red Dead Redemption 2 didn't exist, and CDPR advertised it as what it was - I might have had a higher opinion of the game.
Sidenote: I didn't refund my copy either, despite having the option to. This isn't a for/against situation.
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I don't wanna sound like an asshole, I'm genuinely curious. If it fails as a RPG what makes it your potential GOTY? This was not advertised as a narrative driven shooter, it was supposed to be a RPG based on a tabletop game.