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Deleted member 3812

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There is currently a pending federal lawsuit filed in January 2020 regarding Descent (2019) formerly known as Descent: Underground filed by Little Orbit against Descendent Studios, the development studio for Descent. Little Orbit is accusing Descendent Studios of breach of contract, negligent representation, fraud, and trade libel/commercial disparagement.

This is an update to this thread I created last year regarding this game:

www.resetera.com

Wondering what's happening to Descent (2019), formerly known as Descent: Underground? Eric "Wingman" Peterson reveals on Discord what's going on

Eric "Wingman" Peterson known for developing Star Citizen has revealed on Discord what exactly is going on with Descent (2019), formerly known as Descent: Underground. On the Descent: Underground Discord server, Peterson has revealed that publisher Little Orbit has essentially breached contract...

 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
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Oct 25, 2017
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well this is a shit show. wonder if this might end up affecting Little Orbit's other games, namely Unsung Story
 

chrominance

Sky Van Gogh
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Oct 25, 2017
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Meanwhile, the Overload Kickstarter actually managed to ship a really good spiritual successor to Descent despite a) not having the Descent name because these guys got there first, and b) barely making their KS goal, probably in part because of the existence of Descent Underground.

In summary, go play Overload and forget this ever existed.
 

TeenageFBI

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Oct 25, 2017
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Meanwhile, the Overload Kickstarter actually managed to ship a really good spiritual successor to Descent despite a) not having the Descent name because these guys got there first, and b) barely making their KS goal, probably in part because of the existence of Descent Underground.

In summary, go play Overload and forget this ever existed.
Overload really is Descent but with nice modern technology. It's exactly what I wanted.
 
OP
OP

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The trade libel/commercial disparagement accusation comes directly from the statements Eric Peterson made on the Descent: Underground Discord last year that's included in the thread I created last year that was picked up by gaming news sites:

41. Upon information and belief, Defendants' false statements disparaging Plaintiff include, but are not limited to, the following:
•Folks that say [Descendent] scammed are WAY off base, we worked for nothing, this is a publisher [Little Orbit] holding it hostage trying to get the rights from us, which we have even offered but not for free;
•it is our belief that they [Little Orbit] can't afford the marketing or console publishing and have parked it;
•we had good progress then they [Little Orbit] breached and are trying to snag the IP we own;
•they [Little Orbit] didn't market the game, they didn't properly test it, they constantly asked for changes - they didn't understand the project or market -they were trying to get it into Walmart instead of focusing on digital - so many ways they breached.....and finally they were unable to pay. We had to hold their hands so often on small things - they commissioned a video - for marketing, it was so unassociated with the game we had to rewrite the storyline, and manage new shots just to make it tie in;
•Little Orbit wanting to go full Arcade in January, was typical, they were getting builds for months and then decided to PIVOT based upon the lack of sales for Overload - and that the name Descent did not mean anything in the industry anymore and that they would still need to spend on Marketing. The change indirection was typical of them, and they [Little Orbit] have a history of pulling stunts late to try to stiff devs [developers];
•Essentially they are trying to run us out of biz and take over the IP;
•we have offered to let them [Little Orbit] buy us out - they don't have the $$$,so consider that..if they can't even buy us out, how are they going to market, publish or finish the game? EXACTLY, they aren't.....so, here we are at an impasse - and those saying they fired us on Steam are way off base, you can'tFIRE the IP holder - they just stopped paying, and breached their obligations hoping we would fold and give them everything and then trust them to share;
•We are here because of their [Little Orbit] decisions. They wanted a SAAS model, they needed our assistance on console, even though we were onlycontracted originally for the PC, they lost a console partner and a 2nd console team, they asked for a new ui like 4 times, they offered to do said UI then leftit on us, they never tested properly, never marketed, and asked us to change to their completely new API in Decemberish;
•I mean as owner of the IP we wanted it as good as it could be and figured all of these changes they understood the impact to the schedule. Clearly they didnot, they would just yell at us and tell us to work 7 days a week. Then we researched their [Little Orbit] history and found a pattern of behavior as projects ran into trouble;
•Too many times I have seen publishers kill a game late, take it to market without the original devs, and pocket all the money......right is right - If someone [Little Orbit] doesn't honor a contract signed recently, why would anyone trust they would honor one in the future? Once you start digging into some people's past and find similar situations and talk to others that have dealt with folks it clarifies a lot;
 

ILikeFeet

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The trade libel/commercial disparagement accusation comes directly from the statements Eric Peterson made on the Descent: Underground Discord last year that's included in the thread I created last year that was picked up by gaming news sites:
unless they were true, putting that out there was definitely a bad idea
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
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Oct 25, 2017
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It seems like it must not have been true since Little Orbit is making the claim of trade libel/commercial disparagement over those Discord statements.
At the very least, with regards to the claim that everythibg was fine until LO came into the picture, I sure do remember them having a ton of problems and a lot of unhappy players/backers long before the deal happened.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
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Oct 25, 2017
93,038
Let me get this, the comapny is suing the studio they outsourced the project to?
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
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Oct 25, 2017
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At the very least, with regards to the claim that everythibg was fine until LO came into the picture, I sure do remember them having a ton of problems and a lot of unhappy players/backers long before the deal happened.
Given that the documents say that the dev approached LO for cash, doesn't sound like everything was roses
 

CrunchyFrog

Member
Oct 28, 2017
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Meanwhile, the Overload Kickstarter actually managed to ship a really good spiritual successor to Descent despite a) not having the Descent name because these guys got there first, and b) barely making their KS goal, probably in part because of the existence of Descent Underground.

In summary, go play Overload and forget this ever existed.

This times a thousand. Overload is everything Descent 3 should have been and more. It's virtually perfect.
 
OP
OP

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I've been monitoring this game since I am a fan of the Descent games.

From my understanding, Eric Peterson is a fan of Descent himself and he wanted to develop a game that would be a Descent clone since the last Descent game was Descent 3 released in 1999. There was a Descent 4 in development by Volition which is now Deep Silver Volition but it was scrapped and story plot elements and a game engine that was being developed for Descent 4 was rolled over into Red Faction.

Eric Peterson started Descendent Studios as a development studio for this new game and a friend of his who had ties with Interplay Entertainment put him in touch with Interplay who was interested in rebooting the Descent IP so they successfully negotiated a licensing deal with Descendent. Shortly after this licensing deal that allowed Descendent to use the "Descent" name and certain content that was still owned by Interplay, a Kickstarter was created and it was successfully funded by a lot of Descent fans who wanted to see a modern version of Descent.

Development began shortly after the Kickstarter was fully funded and the development costs soon became too much and all the Kickstarter funding was fully spent and more money was needed, from what I've read, Eric and the team was spending out of pocket to continue development of Descent: Underground.

Enter Little Orbit, the publisher who negotiated a publishing deal with Descendent for Descent: Underground, now renamed just Descent. Descendent was hoping that the money coming from Little Orbit would allow the team to completely finish development and get a beta out to Kickstarter backers and people who purchased the Steam Early Access version of Descent: Underground.

Descendent and Eric Peterson then went totally incommunicado, fans constantly asking for updates, asking when will Descent be released by Little Orbit. Then comes the Discord messages from Eric Peterson in late 2019 trying to give fans an update on the game itself.

Now this most recent development of a federal lawsuit being filed against Descendent and Eric by Little Orbit.

I have played Overload and really liked it, it's disappointing that the development team for Overload couldn't develop more stuff for Overload as originally planned.
 

chrominance

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Oct 25, 2017
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It is worth noting that the original plan for Descent: Underground was fairly removed from what you might consider a traditional Descent game. The single-player campaign was "mistakenly" left off the original pitch. It was intended to be a prequel, and mining mechanics would play a major role in the multiplayer part of the game. You would play as a pilot for one of several competing corporations fighting over deep-space resources or something along those lines, and to that end there was a whole class-based progression system. I don't know if the campaign ever got fleshed out as much as the multiplayer aspect did, but it was pretty obvious that the campaign was always a secondary concern.

I backed it because anything trying to bring back Descent at the time was welcome, no matter what form it was in. This was in the days before games like Sublevel Zero and Overload really established the (very small) second wave of six-degrees-of-freedom shooters and showed what could be done with more modern gameplay and graphics. Seeing those games bring new life to the genre in ways that Descent: Underground has never been able to do has been a silver lining to all of this, but as it stands I don't really have a lot of hope or interest in whatever this Descent reboot ends up being.

Messy, is development effected?

The case the developers made late last year (covered in KSweeley's previous thread linked in the OP) was that the game was pretty much done but stuck in limbo due to Little Orbit intentionally holding back the release. This lawsuit is basically Little Orbit saying all of that was garbage and that Descendant Studios misrepresented their ability to make the game at all given the staff and resources available to them.

So weirdly, it sounds like development hasn't been affected either way. Either Descendant Studios is telling the truth and the game's pretty much ready to go, or Little Orbit is telling the truth and the game was always in shambles.
 
Jul 17, 2018
480
Descent Underground was:
- kickstarted in 2015 making $600,000 and continued fundraising after that
- spent 4 years in early access with very little progress
- put in a $3 bundle in 2016 which made the backers mad
- changed from a single/multiplayer game to strictly multi and back to sp/mp game again citing budget issues
- put on Brightlocker in 2017: https://steamcommunity.com/gid/103582791440066538/announcements/detail/2633894414309993338
(another crowdfunding site, it shut down in 2019)
along with all the updates on the game because, as Wingman said, they didn't really want to post updates on Steam anymore
- completely outclassed by Overload which itself bombed because he original Descent devs didn't have the naming rights
- taken off the digital storefronts to "get some additional polish" (it turned out that the team was working for free in that time, for more than a year) and not because it sat on "mostly negative" rating for years
- bought out by Little Orbit
- got its name changed to just Descent
- given a 2019 release date by Petersen: https://steamcommunity.com/app/360950/discussions/0/1742232339947080248/
- disappeared

Even if Little Orbit is at fault here their history w/ the game starts only around early 2019 which was prefaced by years of lies and ineptitude.

It should also be noted that Petersen and his team are ex-Star Citizen devs so all this mess is not really surprising.
 

medyej

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,422
The fact this project got the Descent name instead of Overload and thus all the Kickstarter hype/money will forever be tragic :(. Play Overload people.
 
OP
OP

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The Descent: Underground Discord server is still active, I just checked the server, in the general channel, Eric, known as "Wingman_DU" on the server, made these posts regarding this filed lawsuit:

Wingman_DU 02/05/2020
I am trying to get permission from our lawyer as we answer the lawsuit, essentially they are claiming we defrauded them, when they had builds every other day until they stopped paying​

Wingman_DU 02/05/2020
We were 100% on the up and up, through all the scope changes and crazy last minute asks
Wingman_DU 02/05/2020
I am looking for an IP lawyer in Cali anyone know a good one?
Wingman_DU 02/05/2020
We plan to fight​

Wingman_DU 02/05/2020
We will be responding - the filing is just....hard to read, just one thing - they had builds all along the way, discovery will be interesting if it comes to that


Eric has recently stated that he wants the game released however, he also revealed that $600,000 (the amount raised through Kickstarter) "does not go very far" in terms of game development and that all of the Kickstarter money and at least $600,000 from Steam Early Access sales were put into game development before the publishing deal with Little Orbit was signed, he estimates that so far, $2.2.-$2.5 million was used up for developing Descent: Underground:

Wingman_DU 02/11/2020
Overload was a much smaller game - we reached for a lot more game play - as we figured the name was not enough nor the number of fans of 6 Dof - it needed more - we always set out to make a triple III game - 600k does not go very far - we actually put all of that in, and at least that much again in Early access money into the game before signing with LO - the final total is probably somewhere around 2.2-2.5m - hopefully we can resolve all of this and get the game out for everyone and re-ignite the flame - this is by far the hardest I have ever seen shipping a game.​
 
Jul 17, 2018
480
"Overload was a much smaller game - we reached for a lot more game play"

lmao, complete crock

Overload shipped with a 20 level singleplayer campaign (fully voiced by professional actors) and multiplayer and then added a level editor.
E: and eye tracking and VR support

Descent Underground after 4 years of development had 2 MP modes and that was it.
 

Primus

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Oct 25, 2017
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Little Orbit's CEO, Matt Scott, has a statement out about the lawsuit:

Hi everyone,


Today, some news sites reported our January lawsuit against Descendent Studios and CEO Eric Peterson, and I would like to send a message to the backers of Descent: Underground and fans of the franchise.


To start, I cannot know how frustrating this situation has been for you. I want to personally apologize for the lack of communication. Little Orbit remains under non-disclosure, and we are engaged in an active lawsuit, so we are severely limited in what we can share at this time.


With that in mind, I do want to say the following:


  • Descendent Studios has shut down their website/forums and ceased working on the game. This was made public by their CEO Eric Peterson some time ago.
  • Since then, we have made every attempt to resolve this matter without legal action, but all of those efforts have failed.
  • We did not receive any of the Kickstarter money, so we cannot refund any of those funds.
  • Since we do not yet have a release date for the game, we have processed refunds for all of the pre-orders we took.

Finally, we are all in this together. We love this game, and Little Orbit has spent a significant amount of time, money, and effort to help Descendent Studios deliver the game.


It is still our intention to get the game out as soon as possible.


Thanks,
Matt
 

chrominance

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Oct 25, 2017
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"Overload was a much smaller game - we reached for a lot more game play"

lmao, complete crock

Overload shipped with a 20 level singleplayer campaign (fully voiced by professional actors) and multiplayer and then added a level editor.
E: and eye tracking and VR support

Descent Underground after 4 years of development had 2 MP modes and that was it.

It's also ridiculous because, hey, if you thought $600,000 wasn't enough, you should've asked for more money for your "triple-I" game.

And while it's true that Overload had a smaller scope than Descent: Underground's original pitch, it's also true that Overload was a much more sustainable project as a result. The most obvious evidence is that they actually managed to put out a game, and one that reviewed fairly well, though its appeal was and is fairly niche. And they did it on half the budget Descent: Underground got from Kickstarter alone, never mind slacker backer campaigns and Little Orbit.

The Descent: Underground devs commented on requests to tweak the flight model for the game, saying that they hoped to get to this eventually but it was difficult because they had 20 different ships to balance. TWENTY. Descent 3 had THREE ships, and that's the most any Descent game has ever had. That's just one example of the devs making life harder for themselves for no real reason.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 3812

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Oh wow!!! This thread is directly linked in this article about the lawsuit:

techraptor.net

Little Orbit Files Lawsuit Against Descendent Studios

Sunday evening, a thread on Resetera by KSweely updated the situation between Little Orbit and Descendent Studios. Little Orbit filed a lawsuit against Descendent Studios last month, accusing the latter of breach of contract, fraud, negligent representation, and trade libel/commercial disparagement.

Sunday evening, a thread on Resetera by KSweely updated the situation between Little Orbit and Descendent Studios. Little Orbit filed a lawsuit against Descendent Studios last month, accusing the latter of breach of contract, fraud, negligent representation, and trade libel/commercial disparagement.
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
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The Stussining
Oh wow!!! This thread is directly linked in this article about the lawsuit:

techraptor.net

Little Orbit Files Lawsuit Against Descendent Studios

Sunday evening, a thread on Resetera by KSweely updated the situation between Little Orbit and Descendent Studios. Little Orbit filed a lawsuit against Descendent Studios last month, accusing the latter of breach of contract, fraud, negligent representation, and trade libel/commercial disparagement.
This is amazing lmao
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
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Oh wow!!! This thread is directly linked in this article about the lawsuit:

techraptor.net

Little Orbit Files Lawsuit Against Descendent Studios

Sunday evening, a thread on Resetera by KSweely updated the situation between Little Orbit and Descendent Studios. Little Orbit filed a lawsuit against Descendent Studios last month, accusing the latter of breach of contract, fraud, negligent representation, and trade libel/commercial disparagement.
that's...some top notch journalism...