Michael Bay isn't around for this one, so probably not.
They blew two massive opportunities just because they couldn't wait to release BvS and JL and because they hired a deeply flawed filmmaker to spearhead the whole universe. What a huge fuckup. Guess they can try Justice League 2, but they only had one shot at Batman vs Superman.
The only thing I remember is a trailer butchering queenthrow in suicide squad , it would have done a billion easy if it was any good , the marketing was superb
James Wan will be the 2nd director to have two $1 billion+ movies in two different franchises. James Cameron being the original, of course.
That's a lie on multiple levels. First off, that line was speaking to Watchmen. Second, it MoS' script and direction were how they were before Snyder even signed onto the project. David Goyer wrote the script and, again, Roven dictated things based on the success of Nolan movies. Not that Snyder is a stranger to making things dark or absolves his part. But jeez, y'all project so much negatively on one person, it's no wonder why you make the hate personal.
Stage One: Nottingham
The script was originally sort of a procedural tale, told from the perspective of the Sheriff as he investigated Robin Hood's actions and tried to figure out who was 'terrorizing' the area. Arguably not a bad take, certainly novel within the context of other movies that deal with the character. A little silly, perhaps, but likely to be easily salable to the audiences that make CSI and Law and Order monster pieces of programming.
The earliest in-depth response came a few days after the film was released, in an interview with the Empire Film podcast. In it Snyder, and writer David S. Goyer (who should not be let off the hook for this either), talk a lot about how that ending came to be. And it doesn't make anyone sound great.
Here's what Snyder said in 2013 about Superman killing Zod:
In the original version of the script, he just got zapped into the Phantom Zone. David [S. Goyer] and I had long talked about it, and Chris [Nolan] and I talked long about it. And I was like, "I really think he should kill Zod, and I really feel like Superman should kill him."This account is backed up by Goyer, who, in the same podcast, said that Nolan told them there was no way they could have that ending. He flat out told them not to write it. Goyer added that they talked to people at DC who told them "No way. No way." Which Goyer and Snyder apparently didn't see as a logical reading of the character, and more of a challenge to find the one situation where Superman would kill. Snyder said, later in the Empire podcast, "I just felt like we were able to create this scenario where either Superman is going to see these people get chopped in half or he's gotta do what he's gotta do."
Snyder on JRE, when?Rogan may have wanted the movies to be like the Dark Knight trilogy's tone, instead he got grim dark murder heroes living in a hellscape that made Nolan's Gotham City appear not so bad.
I get what you're saying but I don't think Titanic counts as a film franchise.
They already did that with Aquaman.WB has to be giving Wan the sweetheart deal that Nolan has at this point right? They just need to sit back and not interfere and those directors will make bank.
Flaming hot takes
Scripts aren't static, they get heavily altered once production is done then altered on-set by writers. The script for Russell Crowe's Robin Hood was a good example of this, it was a completely different concept to what they made.
https://www.slashfilm.com/how-nottingham-became-robin-hood-screenwriter-tells-part-of-the-story/
David Goyer isn't the one giving Snyder orders, it's the other way around. While Snyder's had problems with WB, he wasn't their puppet director he had a lot of control over his movies and the DCEU. Superman snapping Zod's neck? Snyder was one of its creators and biggest supporters.
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/03/a-brief-history-of-zack-snyder-defending-the-end-of-man-of-steel/
Rovan may have wanted the movies to be like the Dark Knight trilogy's tone, instead he got grim dark murder heroes living in a hellscape that made Nolan's Gotham City appear not so bad.
throw in suicide squad , it would have done a billion easy if it was any good , the marketing was superb
Flash is coming out as is Batman. It's taking longer than expected due to scheduling of other things, but they are happening.
Justice League has been almost completely swept under the rug. If Aquaman has proven anything, it's that the general public has completely forgotten about it. Only places like Era that are deep into this stuff continue on as though it's this irredeemable black spot that they need to wait 15 years before trying trying again.
Aquaman is about to do a billi at the box office; Wonder Woman and Batman have a very real chance at doing the same by 2020. Should that happen, no way does a Justice League movie not become a priority for WB. The only reason it isn't right now is the last one came out last year and they're making other shit right now.
It's well documented that Nolan was vehemently against the snap. Goyer/Nolan originally script/story had the movie end with Zod sent back through the singularity. Snyder had to say persuade Nolan that he could make the snap work. Nolan's instincts were 100% correct. I wish he made the movie instead.
It's odd to break out an anecdote about a Robin Hood movie from nine years ago explaining standard practice to counter the point that in MoS' case, it was Goyer's script. MoS' production wasn't an ordinary situation. Even the second link you get, a snide article from Kotaku of all places, mentions Goyer wanting and agreeing with the decision but apprehensive of if they'll allow it. Same blurb has the lame wording of not letting Goyer "off the hook" for a decision in a movie from three years prior to its writing. Like these dudes are on trial. Most of all, it misses the point of saying y'all try to scapegoat all the problems of a movies onto one person. That's not how these movies are made, be they small or large scale. Film making is a collaborate process. There's always this weird under currant with directors on nerd properties that takes it to a personal level. Be it Snyder, Lucas, Rian Johnson, Paul Feig, etc. Seems like it's gotten worse nowadays. People were more sensible about how Last Temptation of Christ handled Jesus than dudes are about Superman and Luke Skywalker.
The fact that Snyder thought there needed to be an origin story explanation for Superman's aversion to killing people kind of says it all.
Which is funny because he didn't develop an aversion to killing at allThe fact that Snyder thought there needed to be an origin story explanation for Superman's aversion to killing people kind of says it all.
The fact that Snyder thought there needed to be an origin story explanation for Superman's aversion to killing people kind of says it all.
If Marvel's head honcho Kevin Feige went to watch Aquaman and wants Gunn and DC to succeed, why can't internet nerds do the same and just enjoy good movies? I'm willing to bet over 50% of the GA does not know Avengers doesn't belong to DC or Batman doesn't belong to Marvel. A rising tide lifts all boats.
They blew two massive opportunities just because they couldn't wait to release BvS and JL and because they hired a deeply flawed filmmaker to spearhead the whole universe. What a huge fuckup. Guess they can try Justice League 2, but they only had one shot at Batman vs Superman.
It's not merely aversion to killing. It's about killing the last of his own people, and cutting out the last link to a heritage he searched for his entire life, in order to save his adopted people. It's...handled poorly, to put it lightly.
I wouldn't put Suicide Squad on that list. It already did almost 800 without a China release.There are plenty of CBM I feel should have done a bil if handled correctly, especially post Avengers.
Justice League
BvS
Suicide Squad
X-Men
Spider-Man
And FF should have done SS/GoTG numbers, at least
I feel GoTG2 could have done it as well if not for the strong dollar at the time. Thor also could have done it, but had to recover from Thor 2, which was mediocre. I also feel like Sony and WB's marketing is inifinitely superior to Disney/Marvel. I think FFH will clear a bil, especially if the marketing in China is on point as Venom was.
With the way the international market has expanded (especially China) and domestic pricing, more and more movies will be clearing 1B. With Aquaman there will be 37 1B+ movies. Out of that, 18 have come in the past 4 years. 2019 is looking to set a record for 1B+ movies.
Which is funny because he didn't develop an aversion to killing at all
Erm, no it wouldn't have. Suicide Squad did $750m without a Chinese release, a billion was never on the table without that market.
I wouldn't put Suicide Squad on that list. It already did almost 800 without a China release.
It definitely would've gotten closer with good WOM, but I'm not sure it would have hit the mark. China is just too big a market to ignore. The only franchise that can get away with it is Star Wars and Batman.suicide squad had terrible word of mouth
if people actually liked it and it was quality , a billion was definetely in play for it,
the marketing resonated bigly in america and europe , the film itself did not
Just got back from seeing Aquaman for the 2nd time. (Liked it more this time than the first somehow)
Is it too early to say that DC solo movies (based on Wonder Woman & Aquaman) have a higher ceiling than Marvel solo movies? As far as 💰 goes of course.
Spider-Verse was a masterpiece but I'll wait and see what Sony does next before I start singing their praises. Basically since Spider-Man 2 in 2004 they've spent 14 years mismanaging the property. Venom was goofy fun but it gave no indication that they righted the ship. I honestly think since Spider-Verse was an animated film the producers/executives that usually give bad notes were either too confused by the process or disinterested that they just left them alone. I hope I'm wrong and Morbius is a great movie.
It did better domestically than all except IW and BP. There's probably still some overseas markets that wouldn't be too excited about a female led superhero flick.Wonder Woman made less than all of 2017 and 2018 MCU except for Ant Man and the Wasp, so that's not the best example.
It did better domestically than all except IW and BP. There's probably still some overseas markets that wouldn't be too excited about a female led superhero flick.
True, but then you can also make the argument that her first ever solo film did almost as good as Thor's third and Spider-Man's sixth.You can't cherry pick territories to make an argument though. Domestically, Aquaman will do well, but not be anything all that special either. So either way, I don't think that you can combine the two to make sweeping statements.
It definitely would've gotten closer with good WOM, but I'm not sure it would have hit the mark. China is just too big a market to ignore. The only franchise that can get away with it is Star Wars and Batman.
You're right. Forgot about those.Avengers hit a billion without China every single time and unless Avatar has completely dropped in popularity (I personally doubt it after I visited Pandora this past year), that's another franchise that can hit it without China. Your point still stands though, China's BO is just too big and will only get bigger in the next few years. The Batman's performance will be interesting to see at the BO. I'm looking forward to that.
In the end, Venom was probably a big help for Spider-Verse because Avi Arad and Matt Tolmach were likely too busy on that garbage to meddle in Spider-Verse, which was overseen by Lord, Miller, and Pascal instead.
Good thing for you is that this exact scenario is happening right before our eyes!I'd be 100% down for an ongoing 30% RT MorbiusVerse if it keeps the Spider-Verse in Lord & Miller's hands.
True, but then you can also make the argument that her first ever solo film did almost as good as Thor's third and Spider-Man's sixth.
Time for a Gold Booster and Blue Beetle movie.I definitely think people are getting a bit carried away with DC's characters have more pull and higher ceiling/higher floor than Marvel's. The market is changing and there are opportunities to be had. For instance, Venom's first movie did better than Wonder Woman and Thor 3 and almost as good as a 2nd GoTG and SM:H for instance.
EDIT: I want to see a random unknown DC character or ensemble movie a la GoTG and Ant Man. Shazam was already known before his movie. Give me an obscure one.
Sometimes I feel like I'm one of the only 3 people on the Internet that likes both MCU and DCEU moviesIf Marvel's head honcho Kevin Feige went to watch Aquaman and wants Gunn and DC to succeed, why can't internet nerds do the same and just enjoy good movies? I'm willing to bet over 50% of the GA does not know Avengers doesn't belong to DC or Batman doesn't belong to Marvel. A rising tide lifts all boats.