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Radarscope1

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,709
A considerable amount of the value of these companies is due to them being publishers. However, that's not worth as much to other publishers (first party or otherwise), who already have their own publication businesses.

Similarly, another large portion of the value of these companies is that they are multiplatform, with player bases on PlayStation, Xbox, Nintendo and PC. A first party purchase of those publishers would mean that some percentage of that player base would migrate, but the rest would be lost.

If you look at, say, Capcom, right now they have a market cap of ~US$6.5 billion. It would cost some unknowable amount (but higher than that) to purchase them. However, their actual value to Sony or Microsoft would only lie in their capacity as a developer of PlayStation or Xbox exclusive games. That would probably only be worth a few billion US dollars. Sony's recent purchase of Insomniac valued them at US$229 million, so here's a thought exercise - how much more is Capcom worth than Insomniac, to Sony, as a PlayStation-exclusive developer? 5 times more? 10 times? For anyone answering a number lower than 29 times, then Capcom's current market cap makes them overly expensive compared to Insomniac.

That's why with acquisitions, the focus of Sony and Microsoft has been on developers, rather than publishers.

Smart post, agree with your thrust here.
 

Mudo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,115
Tennessee
I dont see why not
But are all companies technically for sale, for the right price or could they all say no if approached?
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,336
I couldn't give less of a shit how profitable or stable they are, my beef is with the fact that their incredible stable of IPs is literally going to complete waste, they'll neither release sequels nor re-release anything except the same old crap over and over and over again, it's downright insulting for longtime fans. Follow any Sega centric youtuber (like SLX) and the frustration is palpable. They (corporate Sega) are unquestionably holding their own games hostage.

I have no affinity towards MS, but given that Sony or Nintendo would never ever purchase them, I've been secretly hoping MS would do the deed ever since the 6th gen.

Oh please. A corporation is under no obligation whatsoever to do anything with their old IP if they don't think it will be worth their investment.

For the topic at hand, all of the giants have huge businesses outside or adjacent to gaming. Namco, Square-Enix (through their Taito brand) and Sega run huge arcades all across Japan. Konami of course has their health centers and pachinko. Bandai used to be the third biggest toy company in the world after Mattel and Hasbro (I'm guessing with Lego they're now fourth). They're in all kinds of ventures that would need to be dismantled unless the new buyer would also want to run that, which would be a gigantic undertaking and/or a huge loss, which would not be appreciated by their own shareholders.
 

alphacat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,932
Isn't Sega Sammy worth around the same as Bethesda in terms of market cap? Why are people saying they are too large to be bought out? Forgive me I am not very knowledgeable about these things.
 

CrazyDude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,737
I'm really surprised MS hasn't thrown more money east side, if they could at least build a bigger audience for JP games maybe they wouldn't get left in the cold so often. Sony is the default for JP devs and barely make use of the JP IPs they have now so I couldn't see them buy any.
They tried during the 360 era and it didn't work out for them. I think they were just unlucky in that they did it when Japanese developers were having a bit difficulty adjusting to the HD generation.
 

LordBlodgett

Member
Jan 10, 2020
806
I really don't see Microsoft buying any of the large Japanese publishers. Their IP is worth a lot, but most of them are also involved in a bunch of non-gaming businesses (Except Capcom). There would likely be quite a bit of unhappiness from Japanese gamers, especially if things were made exclusive. Besides their value is in games that are mostly sold on Sony and Nintendo consoles, with minimal sales on Xbox. What I can see from Microsoft is partnering with one of them on Game Pass in Japan, since I think that is Microsoft's most realistic chance of getting into their market. Sony could afford to buy one of them for sure, and all of them would fit better under a Japanese company culture wise as well. Buying a public company is going to be expensive and harder than private, though it is completely possible.
 

Another

Banned
Oct 23, 2019
1,684
Portugal
Oh please. A corporation is under no obligation whatsoever to do anything with their old IP if they don't think it will be worth their investment.
Nor did I ever say or even imply they are under any such obligation, it's merely my reasoning as to why I feel Sega corporate need to bite the dust for the good of the brand.
I want a Sega that cares about it's legacy, how jaded do you have to be to not understand how that can be appealing to someone who grew up loving the brand from the time they were 5 years old?
 

Wein Cruz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,772
Ugh these acquisitions suck. I understand that sometimes it is necessary to save a studio from going under but every other case just limits my options and is only useful for fanboy bragging.
 

docannon

Member
Oct 28, 2017
285
I think it is more than likely that MS has at least attempted to buy one of these companies (if it is not on-going). Especially given what Spencer has said in the past:
He continues: "I think it would be nice if we found an Asian studio, in particular a Japanese studio, to add [to our studios]. I liked it when we had some first-party capability in Japan. We have a small team there, but I think we can do more. That said, through our trips to Japan, I love having Phantasy Star back on our stage with Sega -- I thought that was fantastic. Miyazaki-San, before with Dark Souls and now having Elden Ring on our stage... the Japanese creators have shown up more and more."

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...be-nice-to-buy-a-japanese-studio-phil-spencer

I think they make the most sense given MS and Sega's close historical relationship. It also makes sense given the potential synergies: a Sega branded xbox hardware, Total War franchise on PC Gamepass/XCloud. MS also has a shit ton of cash on hand (around $130B) so any purchase is certainly doable, especially if they spin off the non-gaming components.

Also, let me be clear, that I hate this. I hate the big corps getting even bigger. But at least I wouldn't hate MS+Sega as much as some of the other possibilities.
 
Oct 24, 2019
6,560
Yes. Nothing is off the table.

Are you saying this hypothetically, or are you aware of concrete discussions happening behind the scenes that are actually likely to materialize into a deal in the near future?

If so, do you know if the target publishers in question are bigger/more expensive than Bethesda?

It's not only possible, I'd say it's quite likely at least one gets bought.

Do you think any of the listed publishers are more likely to be acquired than others?
 
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Minthara

Freelance Market Director
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
7,940
Montreal
Are you saying this hypothetically, or are you aware of concrete discussions happening behind the scenes that are actually likely to materialize into a deal in the near future?

If so, do you know if the target publishers in question are bigger/more expensive than Bethesda?



Do you think any of the listed publishers are more likely to be acquired than others?

Of the 4 listed in the thread title, there's definitely an order of likelihood, yes.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,926
re: non-gaming sectors (animation, toys, print/publishing, health, amusement, etc) keep in mind, Nintendo is looking to diversify...
 

Meelow

Member
Oct 31, 2017
9,195
Let's hope not, I don't want Microsoft to be buying any more studios after Bethesida, nothing against them but buying everyone is just not the right way I feel.

Imagine if Microsoft bought Square Enix? I would personally have a meltdown and not because they are getting bought by someone but a company that can easily say "Square is not going to release any more games for Nintendo and/or Sony platforms"

That is scary.
 

andresmoros

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,468
Houston
It would be very dumb of MS to completely alienate these companies second biggest market: Japan. Xbox doesn't sell shit over there, so it would be such a waste of a market. Then again, MS has shitloads of money, they can do whatever the fuck they want. It doesn't matter.
 

Gio

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
837
Manila
Anything is possible if you have enough money, and Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo have deep, deep pockets. I think someone should buy Konami's IPs lol.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
Let's hope not, I don't want Microsoft to be buying any more studios after Bethesida, nothing against them but buying everyone is just not the right way I feel.

Imagine if Microsoft bought Square Enix? I would personally have a meltdown and not because they are getting bought by someone but a company that can easily say "Square is not going to release any more games for Nintendo and/or Sony platforms"

That is scary.

You should expect this though, I mean the next gen hasn't even begun and Microsoft has already made a huge inroad into having a monopoly.

All the other companies will be panicking about whether they should also be buying up developers and publishers or risk having them poached.

I hope you enjoyed having the majority of 3rd party games be multiplatform because those days are numbered.
 

Deleted member 56752

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 15, 2019
8,699
I hope not.

I'm not a fan of such hostile acquisitions b/c we are not talking about struggling studios its just like mere shopping. Im not sure this is gonna be legal if those big companies started to think about acquisitions, it will lead to antitrust and monopoly cases
I wonder about that. I think Bethesda was struggling more than they let on. How much do games like The Evil Within, The Elder Scrolls Online expansions, Dishonored, DOOM and Wolfenstein really sell?
 

foxuzamaki

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,563
We almost had a Nintendo owned namco, ended up with Nintendo getting monolithsoft which really kept MS afloat
 

vhoanox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,156
Vietnam
Wouldn't it funny if someone willing to buy Sega and Atlus still refuses to put Persona anywhere but Playstation (then 10 years later on PC)
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,708
I wonder about that. I think Bethesda was struggling more than they let on. How much do games like The Evil Within, The Elder Scrolls Online expansions, Dishonored, DOOM and Wolfenstein really sell?

They definitely released a bunch of games that seemed to fail to make a huge impact (did anyone really care about Rage 2?), and their next surefire megahits are years away. They have huge overhead, and their next three games are untested new IPs.

I don't know if they were quite at the point where they were treading water, but let's just say I wouldn't exactly want to be in their position.
 
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Ricelord

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,479
i could see sony buying squire or capcom but then again those game sell best on playStation anyway so there be no point on keeping them away from other platforms.
 

Deleted member 56752

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 15, 2019
8,699
They definitely released a bunch of games that seemed to fail to make a huge impact (did anyone really care about Rage 2?), and their next surefire megabits are years away. They have huge overhead, and their next three games are untested new IPs.

I don't know if they were quite at the point where they were treading water, but let's just say I wouldn't exactly want to be in their position.
I'm GUESSING too they might not have had the infrastructure to tightrope walk a pandemic either. That stability in Microsoft absolutely helps them and I think a lot of people are overlooking that. A LOT of people are doing this whataboutism with other publishers. And yeah, sure, anything goes, but I think the financial success of their publishing project from around 2013-2020 needs to be measured. It wasn't much of one and honestly this makes a lot of sense. The only real success on their end were BGS games. It seems like these studios can continue to focus on making single player games like they want to. They don't need to do these cheeky marketing videos to try to convince people anymore.
 

Meelow

Member
Oct 31, 2017
9,195
You should expect this though, I mean the next gen hasn't even begun and Microsoft has already made a huge inroad into having a monopoly.

All the other companies will be panicking about whether they should also be buying up developers and publishers or risk having them poached.

I hope you enjoyed having the majority of 3rd party games be multiplatform because those days are numbered.

I don't think that's true, let's say Nintendo bought Capcom, Namco, and KT, and Sony bought Square, Konami and Sega, we still would have massive indie games that are the future big publishers.
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,708
I'm GUESSING too they might not have had the infrastructure to tightrope walk a pandemic either. That stability in Microsoft absolutely helps them and I think a lot of people are overlooking that. A LOT of people are doing this whataboutism with other publishers. And yeah, sure, anything goes, but I think the financial success of their publishing project from around 2013-2020 needs to be measured. It wasn't much of one and honestly this makes a lot of sense.

Like, I don't know how they measure their fiscal years, but just as an example...what games are they releasing between April 1, 2020 and March 31, 2021? If that's their fiscal year, Doom was last FY and we already know Deathloop is next FY. They'd have, what, ESO Greymoor? Doom Eternal for Switch, if that ever comes out?

Granted, one of the things that's nice about being a private company is that you hopefully have a little less pressure to keep things constantly trending positive quarter to quarter, and if things happen to line up that way you can maybe have an "off year" without it being quite as much of an issue as it would be for a public company. But still, a games company has to release games, and they can only not release big games for so long. We know they wanted Deathloop to be a 2020 title. I don't know if it was delayed because of the pandemic or what, but a delay double hurts — it makes the game cost more while pushing the return further back.
 

Deleted member 56752

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 15, 2019
8,699
I don't think that's true, let's say Nintendo bought Capcom, Namco, and KT, and Sony bought Square, Konami and Sega, we still would have massive indie games that are the future big publishers.
I genuinely believe CDPR will fill the void of BGS in 5 years time. Mark my words, they'll be a publishing giant, they already have a store for distribution.
 

Harpoon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,576
You should expect this though, I mean the next gen hasn't even begun and Microsoft has already made a huge inroad into having a monopoly.

All the other companies will be panicking about whether they should also be buying up developers and publishers or risk having them poached.

I hope you enjoyed having the majority of 3rd party games be multiplatform because those days are numbered.

I'm not so sure about the other companies wanting to spend billions of dollars on panic acquisitions.
 

Kcannon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,663
If I were to guess, Capcom and Square would be the least likely purchases since both are enjoying plenty of acclaim and financial success right now, which may increase their perceived value. Zenimax's buyout was probably eased due to the Fallout 76 fiasco, which was apparently a big money sink for them.

As for the likeliest, probably Sega. Atlus-aside, they do not have any major hits lately. Yakuza is rather niche and Sonic lives by its olden days.

Bandai could go either way. Tekken and maybe Dark Souls are the only truly big thing they have, but the anime and toy division is their bread and butter anyway.
 
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Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,940
If I were to guess, Capcom and Square would be the least likely purchases since both are enjoying plenty of acclaim and financial success right now, which may increase their perceived value. Zenimax's buyout was probably eased due to the Fallout 76 fiasco, which was apparently a big money sink for them.

As for the likeliest, probably Sega. Atlus-aside, they do not have any major hits lately. Yakuza is rather niche and Sonic lives by its olden days.
Sega has other ventures that make them a ton of money. They're actually worth about 170% of Zenimax.
 

NSESN

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,320
The moment sony acquires a a japanese publisher Nintendo will do the same and people will be very angry