When i say "extreme", it's more about choosing to buy or not a product, and trying to make people feel bad about their choices. Of course it's not extreme to say that J.K Rowling sucks.
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With Multiversus's announcement, here's a friendly reminder that J.K. Rowling is a piece of shit TERF.
- Thread starter Lord Vatek
- Start date
If I'm being honest with myself, I'll probably never play this game. But if any JK stuff is in it by default, so she gets some kind of royalties from my purchase. It's a no deal 100%.
If harry is DLC, I'll pick it up at some point. Love me some Adventure Time where I can get it.
If harry is DLC, I'll pick it up at some point. Love me some Adventure Time where I can get it.
Harry Potter was what got me into reading books and even reading books in English. That being said, even before we knew Rowling was a TERF it was quite easy to ignore HP, especially since the fantastic beasts movies and the cursed child plays are horrible. Learning she is a fucking TERF made it even more easy.
Haven't burned my books, but they must be locked somewhere, collecting dust and the pages turning yellow.
We have seen people who have PhD that love to post conspiracy theories or are antimask. By now I can expect anyone to say something stupid, regardless of their education.
My actual feelings on this topic are much less nuanced and I don't want to catch a ban for inflammatory behaviour (because unfortunately my mouth has gotten me in a lot of trouble here before!), so please read the following and then embellish it on my behalf with as many expletives and vitriol as you feel is necessary:
If you feel that you are a trans ally but cannot fathom why it's a bad thing to continue to support works and IP that continue to support bigots both directly and indirectly, you aren't an ally. You may not actively be a transphobe, but you're certainly transphobe-adjacent, and your ideology hurts more than your false allegiance helps.
If you can come onto a web forum with a trans flag in the top corner and say "Fuck JK Rowling, but also I'm going to buy this video game that indirectly supports their work even if I don't use the aforementioned character", don't be surprised when you catch heat for it for being wrong. Because you are wrong. And even if you were spreading your diatribe on a forum that wholly aligns with your fence-sitting, or even errs towards the opposite sentiment about "political correctness going mad", you would still be wrong. Just in a different place. Alongside more people.
In 20 years when this shit won't fly because of the maturation of Gen Y and Gen Z, you're going to look like an utter boomer moron when transness is rightly more widely accepted and you continued to assert that your line in the sand was hyperbolic book-burning because you refused to acknowledge that teaching kids about a transphobic person in a position of authority exposes malleable brains to transphobic ideology. Because you refused to align with trans people when they tell you that supporting transphobic work allows the propagation of transphobic voices into higher spaces.
If you can look at a single word that toxic, garbage pail of an author can say and then turn around to your trans peerage and say "But I still love Harry Potter", you are a fucking transphobe. I don't give a damn what you think - It's true. Maybe you do love the books and the lore and the childhood memories, and you can continue to enjoy the books and merchandise that you already own in secret if you really, really can't let go of a marketed intellectual property that badly. But as soon as you, in a matter of trans debate, inanely state that you still enjoy the books when the subject at hand is the proposed genocide of a supressed minority of people, you are a transphobe. And if you, facing the matter of transphobia and trans debate, let even one other soul outside of yourself know that in spite of her words you still love "Harry Potter", you are a part of the problem.
Fuck. I tried to keep as civil as I can. I hope I did well enough.
If you feel that you are a trans ally but cannot fathom why it's a bad thing to continue to support works and IP that continue to support bigots both directly and indirectly, you aren't an ally. You may not actively be a transphobe, but you're certainly transphobe-adjacent, and your ideology hurts more than your false allegiance helps.
If you can come onto a web forum with a trans flag in the top corner and say "Fuck JK Rowling, but also I'm going to buy this video game that indirectly supports their work even if I don't use the aforementioned character", don't be surprised when you catch heat for it for being wrong. Because you are wrong. And even if you were spreading your diatribe on a forum that wholly aligns with your fence-sitting, or even errs towards the opposite sentiment about "political correctness going mad", you would still be wrong. Just in a different place. Alongside more people.
In 20 years when this shit won't fly because of the maturation of Gen Y and Gen Z, you're going to look like an utter boomer moron when transness is rightly more widely accepted and you continued to assert that your line in the sand was hyperbolic book-burning because you refused to acknowledge that teaching kids about a transphobic person in a position of authority exposes malleable brains to transphobic ideology. Because you refused to align with trans people when they tell you that supporting transphobic work allows the propagation of transphobic voices into higher spaces.
If you can look at a single word that toxic, garbage pail of an author can say and then turn around to your trans peerage and say "But I still love Harry Potter", you are a fucking transphobe. I don't give a damn what you think - It's true. Maybe you do love the books and the lore and the childhood memories, and you can continue to enjoy the books and merchandise that you already own in secret if you really, really can't let go of a marketed intellectual property that badly. But as soon as you, in a matter of trans debate, inanely state that you still enjoy the books when the subject at hand is the proposed genocide of a supressed minority of people, you are a transphobe. And if you, facing the matter of transphobia and trans debate, let even one other soul outside of yourself know that in spite of her words you still love "Harry Potter", you are a part of the problem.
Fuck. I tried to keep as civil as I can. I hope I did well enough.
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Coming into this thread to say "Fuck JK Rolling but..." is this discussion's equivalent of "I'm not racist, but..."
If you're too attached to the IP that you feel you can't stop consuming it even if you support trans rights, then at least own up to it and be aware that this is your choice and is a compromise you should be doing but isn't. Don't come into these discussions to dismiss concerns just so you can feel less bad about yourself. This is bigotry simple and clean.
If you're too attached to the IP that you feel you can't stop consuming it even if you support trans rights, then at least own up to it and be aware that this is your choice and is a compromise you should be doing but isn't. Don't come into these discussions to dismiss concerns just so you can feel less bad about yourself. This is bigotry simple and clean.
Millions upon millions more also learned to love reading without HP.
What a weird argument. Good for you if that's how you got passionate about books but it's not the only way to do it. HP can disappear and kids will still read.
The cynic in me knows that HP will probably make it into the game. There's too much money on the table. Yeah, another terrible person is going to make even more money.
You can? This kinda feels to me like some weird get-out-of-jail card, that's not reasonably grounded in reality to be really valid. It's a good excuse to feel better about oneself, which I don't even mean as an insult, but honestly?
How can you like, enjoy, engage and buy "all things Harry Potter" while still claiming "but I never would support Rowling and what she stands for and where the money goes to that I just spent on this product", and actually think this is a valid out? With every buy within the Potterverse you actively support her transphobic means, this is not undone by saying "..but I really don't like it". Except you mean "..but I really don't care _that_ much", which would pretty much be the only valid reason here.
Again, not attacking you, but come on, your throwaway pseudo reasoning is not substantial or true at all.
Hear hear. It's time for Era to put its money where its mouth is, and stop fearing banning mainstream games. It's easy to ban stuff like Niche Vita Hentai RPG #89432 and pat oneself in the back, but it's the Cyberpunks and the Harry Potters that require actual courage and strong principles.
Absolutely agreed. But this has been said before and the administration doesn't share this belief it seems.
again, 100% agreed.
- Acceptable level of activism: Posting entirely meaningless and zero-effort "fuck [bigot]" statements in a videogame forum.
- Extreme level of activism: Not buying a videogame that directly supports said bigot.
... actually, yeah, that does check out with most Era posters.
So depressing. We're reading through the books with our daughter and she loves them. And you know, I do, too. Then and now. Hate it when a great thing is made by shitty people.
The sad reality is that the Harry Potter IP will almost definitely have some sort of presence within the game. As others have said its too huge an IP for it not to be. Regardless of how it is implemented JK Rowling will get paid. If there is HP content that is purchasable with DLC then the only thing we can do other than not play this game at all is to not buy any of the DLC to at least try to send the message that IP created by a horribly damaged, broken person causing actual societal harm is not welcome in any game.
Unfortunately i'm going to go ahead and assume that even if everyone with the knowledge of JK's history boycotts the game/DLC that it won't make a dent compared to all the people who either aren't aware of the whole situation, simply don't give a shit or are "gender critical" cunts who would be more than happy to throw their money at anything that supports transphobia.
I can't wait for the spineless gaming "media/journalists" to not even bring it up when WB Games inevitably start allowing interviews or features to promote the game. Personally i would support a Cyberpunk style ban on discussion relating to both that Hogwarts game and Multiversus the moment that HP content is officially confirmed to be in the game.
Unfortunately i'm going to go ahead and assume that even if everyone with the knowledge of JK's history boycotts the game/DLC that it won't make a dent compared to all the people who either aren't aware of the whole situation, simply don't give a shit or are "gender critical" cunts who would be more than happy to throw their money at anything that supports transphobia.
I can't wait for the spineless gaming "media/journalists" to not even bring it up when WB Games inevitably start allowing interviews or features to promote the game. Personally i would support a Cyberpunk style ban on discussion relating to both that Hogwarts game and Multiversus the moment that HP content is officially confirmed to be in the game.
There's nothing extreme about not buying an entertainment product or discouraging others from doing it, and it's honestly a problem that a lot of people think this kind of low effort is.
So why not, maybe afterwards, read through similar fantastical, fun stories like The Lightning Thief & Percy Jackson as a whole, maybe the Golden Compass series, Shadow & Bone, the All Souls trilogy and so on? It's not like Potter is the only kids compatible series out there, and I can absolutely assure you it's certainly neither the best written one, or the one with the best worldbuilding or characters anyway. It's just the most famous with the most merchandise.
I'm absolutely sure your daughter will love other, better and less hateful books as well or even more.
Yes. As a parent, I read many things with my kids. It's in no way restricted to one book or series.
I dont really see how going at Rowling furthers trans rights. It just creates a divide between allies or those who are sympathetic towards trans people who also like Harry Potter and are being told they're bad because they buy a Harry Potter game or a ticket to the cursed child or something. The ip is too big to fail, nothing the trans movement does will affect her. The best way to further trans rights is to change legislation and shame those who hold terrible beliefs into shutting the fuck up.
Going at Rowling doesn't further trans rights, but giving her an unchecked platform, sales and success substantially hurts trans rights.
Also, a fucking lot of what the Trans community did already absolutely affected her, to a point where she couldn't fucking shut up about it on Twitter. Bookshops banned her. And she apparently got banned from a future Potter-related project. Not even talking about a gazillion websites reporting on the shit she's saying and doing, which would very likely have never heard of it or ignored it otherwise. So.
These two statements seem to contradict one another. Especially with her having a detrimental affect on legislation surrounding trans people.
User Banned (3 Months) Dismissing concerns with regards to transphobia, account in junior phase
I feel if you're influenced by a children's book author to hate trans people you hate trans people already and likely vote accordingly. I dont think celebrities really move the needle politically
Rowling's rhetoric has been used both in the UK and the US to justify legislators trying to pass anti-trans bills. It's not as simple as "JK is making people hate trans people" - she's being used as an excuse by people with actual legislative power to curtail trans rights.
The best way to deal with people like Rowling is to directly oppose them.
You cannot say "separate the art from the artist" and then continue to buy media/goods that actively deposit money into that person's bank account.
I, thankfully, never grew up with Harry Potter and have no connection to the franchise but you have to accept that by buying the books, films, merch you are actively paying for JK Rowling to live her life and continue to spout hate and you are responsible for contributing to that even if you play the "no one knows who wrote Harry Potter" nonsense.
I, thankfully, never grew up with Harry Potter and have no connection to the franchise but you have to accept that by buying the books, films, merch you are actively paying for JK Rowling to live her life and continue to spout hate and you are responsible for contributing to that even if you play the "no one knows who wrote Harry Potter" nonsense.
genuinely weird how many people feel the need to insert themselves in the conversation to boldly state they like one of the biggest entertainment properties on the planet.
You aren't a protected class. You aren't under fire from anyone or anything. If you don't feel like making a transphobe pay through even the smallest personal consequence, and if your role in this conversation is to say, "JK is bad, but I still like Harry Potter." Sincerely, what are you doing? It's such an easy opinion to have and just move on with. Your action being coming in here to say that speaks volumes.
You aren't a protected class. You aren't under fire from anyone or anything. If you don't feel like making a transphobe pay through even the smallest personal consequence, and if your role in this conversation is to say, "JK is bad, but I still like Harry Potter." Sincerely, what are you doing? It's such an easy opinion to have and just move on with. Your action being coming in here to say that speaks volumes.
User Banned (1 Month): Dismissive whatsboutism with regards to transphobia.
I don't know dude... Do you put gas in your car? How can you do that while still being concerned about climate change? Do you eat animals? How can you do that while caring about any living thing?
The answer is people contain multitudes, the world is complicated, and we make the choices that make the most sense for us and our happiness and balance it with the rest like our morals.
I personally think it's enough to be an ally and advocate in your own way and you can do that while still liking and engaging with this IP. Putting a dollar into JKs pocket at this point is like adding a grain of sand to the beach.
"Hey guys, maybe try not to give any money in support of a terf"
"BURN ALL THE BOOKS GO ALL IN ON FAHRENHEIT"
That went from 0 to 100 gawdamn.
When Ubisoft came out as a piece of shit company, I didn't snap the Assassin Creed discs I already own in two. They already got my money from those and going back and replaying them will not effect them in a positive or negative way. But what can I do? At the very fucking least not buy the next one that came out.
It's not that hard of a concept to realize you can still talk about past experiences with an IP that helped you in a positive way, while also making others aware the many many issues that have since cropped up from the time it was influencing you.
"BURN ALL THE BOOKS GO ALL IN ON FAHRENHEIT"
That went from 0 to 100 gawdamn.
When Ubisoft came out as a piece of shit company, I didn't snap the Assassin Creed discs I already own in two. They already got my money from those and going back and replaying them will not effect them in a positive or negative way. But what can I do? At the very fucking least not buy the next one that came out.
It's not that hard of a concept to realize you can still talk about past experiences with an IP that helped you in a positive way, while also making others aware the many many issues that have since cropped up from the time it was influencing you.
No sweat, I appreciate you being open to the information and why Rowling in particular is so toxic.
Eh. Pushing money toward Mermaids while helping to further the person sending children toward their services isn't great. You can draw your line wherever but waving an ally status while feeling a need to put out there that you continue to engage with Harry Potter feels a little like having your cake and eating it. No one's able to stop you engaging with the IP but coming into a thread on Rowling's transphobia just to say you can continue to support the IP is a little odd.
It should be obvious that it's not solely about money at this point. Similarly it should be apparent as well that things like trans causes and issues are like moving a beach one grain of sand at a time. Waiting for the entire beach to suddenly move is futile, that's rarely how minority issues are resolved.
Jesus Christ.
You're the literal personification of the "And yet you participate in society" cartoon and expect an actual answer?
The Potter books and Blurays are, quite literally, the only books i've EVER thrown away. Not resold. Not given to charity or child's books collections. They're in the trash. I do my best from what I can to help with climate change as well, from using a car that's very economical to using a dang credit card that's supporting sustainable energy and plants trees. I do not eat animals if I can avoid it. I also do not post random bullshit gotchas taken directly from parody comics on messageboards.
The world is complicated, but this issue really isn't. So isn't your stupid reddit-level "argument". The only complicated thing here are the constructed hoops, apologies and justifications people make to not need to feel bad about themselves.
I think we misunderstand each other - I completely agree with you. In fact, I was arguing against somebody who had the point I think you believe I have.
He was saying that HP is still legitimate because a kid who he works with loves reading because of it, my response was basically yours. That yes, lots of people loved HP in the past tense but that doesn't make it appropriate now.
There are countless better written children's/YA fiction that aren't putting the coins in the coffers of dangerous transphobes.
If you replace Cyberpunk with Harry Potter here, would anyone agree? If you say, "You can enjoy Harry Potter and also still be against transphobia."
I don't know, does not seem right, you know?
Anyways, I am glad that my interest in Harry Potter universe evaporated so long ago. Still couldn't believe the creator of such a charming universe is in actuality such a hateful person.
People are big on public displays but weak on self interrogation. Allyship costs something. Do you want to be one of the people with moral standards rooted in social justice or someone who put it out of sight and out of mind for your own benefit?
Imagine you're someone with the privilege to enjoy JK Rowling's work or Mel Gibson's movies without being bothered by who they are and what they have done. Either you stand with the people that don't have that privilege or just like quietly leave the conversation so your posts don't serve as justification for people looking for any way to rationalize their selfish behavior.
Imagine you're someone with the privilege to enjoy JK Rowling's work or Mel Gibson's movies without being bothered by who they are and what they have done. Either you stand with the people that don't have that privilege or just like quietly leave the conversation so your posts don't serve as justification for people looking for any way to rationalize their selfish behavior.
If people gaming side didn't realise either – it's Transgender Awareness Week. You can find some information, including some great trans-positive media examples like Celeste, in the thread below:
www.resetera.com
It's also Transgender Day of Remembrance today if you want to understand the affect of transphobia laid bare:
www.resetera.com
Transgender Awareness Week 2021 ~ (13th - 19th November)
www.resetera.com
It's also Transgender Day of Remembrance today if you want to understand the affect of transphobia laid bare:
Transgender Day of Remembrance – 20th November 2021
Today is the 20th November; the Transgender Day of Remembrance. It is a day where we remember the trans people reported murdered between last year until now. Where we reflect on the senseless violence that trans people face simply through existing. For obvious reasons this thread will have...
www.resetera.com
I'm not going to judge people for reading HP still, I know trans folk who do. We all draw our lines where we can.
As others have said, coming into threads like these to defend your right to do so is unnecessary. If you read a thread like this and see someone saying "anyone who reads HP still is not an ally", you don't need to respond to it. Trans people and people who care about trans people having a limit to their tolerance of this stuff is perfectly reasonable. Their frustration and anger isn't hurting you, you are not a vulnerable class of person because of your desire to read these books, you don't need to argue with them about it.
If you truly are an ally it shouldn't matter. Keep it to yourself and carry on being an ally.
Of course, if it comes up in your personal life and you feel you're being unfairly treated or judged, you have every right to stand up for yourself. There is no need for you to insert yourself into a discussion and get defensive, though.
We all do what we can, yes, and many things come with a level of hypocrisy if we stand up for one thing over and other, but we also need to acknowledge context.
The current climate of transphobia is incredibly dangerous. Trans rights are being legitimised as a "debate" and "a matter of opinion". Rowling has a huge platform and is using her position as a woman who has experienced trauma to bludgeon trans people.
This is a crisis point situation where her talking points are literally leading to trans rights being rolled backwards by framing their right to exist as an opinion, and that is being weaponised by people on the right who seek to capacitively deny their rights by looping it back through those on the left who have been taken in by arguments put forward by people like Rowling.
Trans people are being actively harmed, and if we don't stand up to it now it's going to get so much worse.
The context here is that this is something that requires an all hands on deck approach from all allies, right now. I personally am not going to judge anyone for reading HP, but keep that to yourself. Coming into threads like these and arguing away the immediacy of the need to stand up is harmful.
As others have said, coming into threads like these to defend your right to do so is unnecessary. If you read a thread like this and see someone saying "anyone who reads HP still is not an ally", you don't need to respond to it. Trans people and people who care about trans people having a limit to their tolerance of this stuff is perfectly reasonable. Their frustration and anger isn't hurting you, you are not a vulnerable class of person because of your desire to read these books, you don't need to argue with them about it.
If you truly are an ally it shouldn't matter. Keep it to yourself and carry on being an ally.
Of course, if it comes up in your personal life and you feel you're being unfairly treated or judged, you have every right to stand up for yourself. There is no need for you to insert yourself into a discussion and get defensive, though.
Sorry, but this is not a good argument.
We all do what we can, yes, and many things come with a level of hypocrisy if we stand up for one thing over and other, but we also need to acknowledge context.
The current climate of transphobia is incredibly dangerous. Trans rights are being legitimised as a "debate" and "a matter of opinion". Rowling has a huge platform and is using her position as a woman who has experienced trauma to bludgeon trans people.
This is a crisis point situation where her talking points are literally leading to trans rights being rolled backwards by framing their right to exist as an opinion, and that is being weaponised by people on the right who seek to capacitively deny their rights by looping it back through those on the left who have been taken in by arguments put forward by people like Rowling.
Trans people are being actively harmed, and if we don't stand up to it now it's going to get so much worse.
The context here is that this is something that requires an all hands on deck approach from all allies, right now. I personally am not going to judge anyone for reading HP, but keep that to yourself. Coming into threads like these and arguing away the immediacy of the need to stand up is harmful.
I love yelling "fuck homophobia" while I chow down on my succulent, juicy Chick-Fil-A® Deluxe Burger™
Some of the conduct here is bloody disgusting.
Harry Potter is the easiest fucking franchise in the world to enjoy without giving a cent to Rowling. The number of extant second hand copies of books, DVDs, library copies, etc. should be enough for anyone who wants to appreciate the core content.
To then go beyond that to the point where you need to monetarily rationalize your support of new ventures of a bigoted transphobe who will in turn plow those revenues back into punching down at an already marginalized group, idk man, actually fuck off. You can't do the whole "separate the art from the artist" for something so inextricably linked to tangibly bad outcomes. Unless WB's comes out and says their share of the revenue is going directly to trans advocacy groups I don't get how there is even a debate here.
Trans lives matter more than the continued relevance of an entertainment franchise. If you have actual principles that put human lives front and center this is an obvious conclusion.
Instead the discourse belies that outrage is selective, talk is cheap, and personal gratification is paramount.
Harry Potter is the easiest fucking franchise in the world to enjoy without giving a cent to Rowling. The number of extant second hand copies of books, DVDs, library copies, etc. should be enough for anyone who wants to appreciate the core content.
To then go beyond that to the point where you need to monetarily rationalize your support of new ventures of a bigoted transphobe who will in turn plow those revenues back into punching down at an already marginalized group, idk man, actually fuck off. You can't do the whole "separate the art from the artist" for something so inextricably linked to tangibly bad outcomes. Unless WB's comes out and says their share of the revenue is going directly to trans advocacy groups I don't get how there is even a debate here.
Trans lives matter more than the continued relevance of an entertainment franchise. If you have actual principles that put human lives front and center this is an obvious conclusion.
Instead the discourse belies that outrage is selective, talk is cheap, and personal gratification is paramount.
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Yeah, transparent strawmen and whataboutisms are, without fail, the first line of defense against the notion that one may not, in fact, be the "ally" they want to think themselves as, or that it may at least require a modicum of actual effort and giving up things. Probably because that very thought is too unconfortable hold in one's mind for long enough to put any actual thought in anything beyond zero-effort, instinctive, defensive retorts.
Embarrassing case in point.
Guessing you're from York?
It's a shame it's so ingrained in our culture. It really does show the influence she has here, and sadly, that's reflected in the countries attitude.
And trans men. I "love" how trans women are dangerous criminals for her, while trans-men are confused fools. I honestly don't want to know what she thinks of enbies, I hope she doesn't even know they exist.
Tangentially relevant:
There was an entry in this year's Interactive Fiction competition that was about a fandom/fan-fic community that gets blown up when its beloved author reveals themselves to be... rather Rowling-like in her transphobia. It was the game that I rated most highly among the entries I played.
A Paradox Between Worlds is entirely text-based, so lots of reading, but I thought about conversations I've seen here while playing it. The primary mechanic--beyond reading--is choosing whether to like and/or reblog posts.
One of the cool things it does is show how even the smallest social actions online have ethical consequences.
This isn't self-promotion: I don't know the author, and it's free. A worthwhile read for a couple of hours imo.
There was an entry in this year's Interactive Fiction competition that was about a fandom/fan-fic community that gets blown up when its beloved author reveals themselves to be... rather Rowling-like in her transphobia. It was the game that I rated most highly among the entries I played.
A Paradox Between Worlds is entirely text-based, so lots of reading, but I thought about conversations I've seen here while playing it. The primary mechanic--beyond reading--is choosing whether to like and/or reblog posts.
One of the cool things it does is show how even the smallest social actions online have ethical consequences.
This isn't self-promotion: I don't know the author, and it's free. A worthwhile read for a couple of hours imo.