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PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,635
You gotta check out the old JP dub my man. Some of the best fights have minimal screaming and grunting. Funimation made the fights filled with grunts though for some reason lol

I've seen the Japanese version. Replace screaming with Masako Nozawa going "GK...KH..." through gritted teeth. It's basically the same thing.

I would not be interested in live action. Giving a Hollywood feature budget to a 2D animation company I could do.

But why do that when Toei already does the animation? Bringing in Disney or Dreamworks or whatever won't make Dragonball better.
 

donkey

Sumo Digital Dev
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
4,854
We're kinda already there.

BC8Yn7t.png


https://kotaku.com/comparisons-of-captain-marvel-to-dragon-ball-wont-stop-1833224455
 

Ocean Bones

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
4,725
It can be done and if done well it'll be a billion dollar movie franchise. Someone with vision will come along and bring it to life and it'll all Be so Obvious
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,635
It can be done and if done well it'll be a billion dollar movie franchise. Someone with vision will come along and bring it to life and it'll all Be so Obvious

Broly really didn't do that well in theatres. It was fine for a limited release, but Dragonball is never going to be Marvel. It's not going to happen.
 

erlim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,511
London
I've seen the Japanese version. Replace screaming with Masako Nozawa going "GK...KH..." through gritted teeth. It's basically the same thing.



But why do that when Toei already does the animation? Bringing in Disney or Dreamworks or whatever won't make Dragonball better.

A $100,000,000 Dragon Ball epic by Toei would me dandy with me. I agree with you, in fact, could you imagine the type of sequences they could imagine already possessing an amazing understanding of the source material.

The only prospect of having input of another creative team that could excite me is just the idea of having creators that came up on Dragon Ball coming up with some novel new scenarios that Toriyama wouldn't necisarrily dream up in this day and age. The same way you've had some amazing Amazing Spider-Man stories outside Stan Lee and Steve Ditko. Maybe something like not sidelining Gohan or something.
 
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Sander VF

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
25,956
Tbilisi, Georgia
Datrinti has some pretty good art to represent this idea.

Dragon Ball


Dragon Ball Z
I thought about the idea of Saiyan being played by actors of different races, seeing how it wouldn't unbelievable for them to have racial differences of their own, but then I thought that a white Vegeta looking down on Asian Kakkarot for being born as a "low class warrior" would have some bad optics.

Still could make both of them Asian and have Nappa as white or even black.
 

Deleted member 21601

User requested account deletion
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
810
As long as they do a good job (a faithfull adaption) and not a cheap shitfest like the last time and dont try to cram the entire DB manga in one movie it could work.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,060
I don't think Dragon Ball is well suited to live action at all, so I hope they never try that again. A CG film based on early DB could turn out good though.
 

Galkinator

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,953
Any sort of live action adaptation will be terrible and bomb in the BO. Not everything needs live action.
 

Sgt. Demblant

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,030
France
As much as I loved Broly, it also perfectly demonstrated why the property would never work as a live-action Hollywood film to me. As a cg film with the Toriyama style? Sure, why not. But considering how much better Broly looked than anything else before it, I don't know that there is much of a point to go full cg. These movies are starting to look pretty damn good already.

If you go live-action, there's the problem of where to start. Most fans want to go straight to the saiyan stuff and skip the kid Goku era. While original DB is my favorite part of the saga, it's definitely less iconic. It doesn't have many of the elements that people associate with Dragonball.
But doing the type of DBZ action that fans want would create a different problem. Look at the reactions to Man of Steel's finale. So many people just get turned off by that stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I live in France and Dragonball is ultra mainstream here. It's much bigger than most superhero properties, if not all. But people like it as it is, I don't think they're interested in a Hollywood version.

DB doesn't need Hollywood to gain mainstream popularity worldwide. It's already there.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,060
They don't even scream that long in Super. Three seconds, tops.

Either way, direct adaptations wouldn't work. They'd need to pull from multiple arcs and mix in their own stuff for it to work.
Yeah, the screaming was mainly to pad out episode lengths in Z to make sure they didn't run out of manga content.
 

Patapuf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,414
It could work but Hollywood adaptions usually want to root at least some of the plot in America or at least a nondescript real world setting.

This doesn't work with Dragonball.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,225
Haven't seen Captain Marvel yet, but what I've seen genuinely does look like a woman going Super Saiyan and shooting Ki Blasts.
That's because Carol Danvers literally goes Super Saiyan and shoots ki blasts.

Nlfgfvk.jpg


It's referenced as her going "Binary" in the fandom and the comics. Way back when after Rogue stole her powers, she got empowered by a White Dwarf Hole and went by the name Binary and was essentially a high tier cosmic character like Silver Surfer. After her normal powers got mostly restored, she lost said Binary state until she absorbed too much energy at one point and triggered it. Binary essentially functions as her Super Saiyan form these days. She's already strong, fast, durable, and so on, but going Binary makes her stronger, faster, etc. She usually absorbs excess energy to trigger it, but she can power up at will.

She basically goes from Aquaman tier to Superman tier. So yeah, Super Saiyan.

edit: a word
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,125
Sydney
After seeing photorealistic Pokemon being recieved well, I genuinely don't believe that translating Toryiama's designs is that hard in comparison.

The Pokemon material is working (at least so far remember we haven't SEEN the movie) because it's doing an excellent job of taking fantastical elements of the Pokemon universe and integrating them in a mundane way into a specific visual style; a noir mystery.

People are specifically getting excited by the novelty of seeing a world that very much looks like our own, that functions like our own, with some Pokemon peppered in. There's been no strong indication so far that this Pokemon movie will be about fantastic spectacle, huge Pokemon battles or anything like that.

Dragonball very obviously can't do that, it'd need a totally different conceptual framework, to the extent that pointing to the Pokemon example is pointless.
 

Nateo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,542
They need to do a loose adaption. Lose the attempt at doing the hairstyles etc.
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
When will Hollywood understand that you can't just take something successful from another culture, "westernize" it and expect it to have the same appeal?
 

Deleted member 9932

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,711
Nothing really changed. What a lot of you want is some bastardized western version of DB adapted to the superhero movie audience.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,125
Sydney
We saw snippets of Mewtwo and what I can only assume is a legendary uprooting the very landscape.

Yeah like most adapted movies there will probably be a big climatic battle or disaster scene near the end.

But that's not what the movie is about, it's a mystery film based on an adventure game starring a Pikachu who is very specifically not a strong fighter and uses his intellect.

But you can't do that with Dragonball. Dragonball needs lots and lots of lots of fighting scenes and spectacle and big battles.
 

Jonathan Lanza

"I've made a Gigantic mistake"
Member
Feb 8, 2019
6,808
I'd say Pokemon has always had an extremely consistent artstyle.
Lemme try and elaborate as best as I can.
Take someone like Goku, he's a manchild who is dumb as a rock most of the time, really likes to fight and has little to no social awareness.
His character is inherently very cartoony, there's nothing sarcastic or ironic about him, he doesn't make jokes or remarks or quips. That's just how he is partly to be funny and partly to be somewhat relateable to an incredibly young audience.

And I just really don't think that kinda stuff can really translate well into a live action format because the inherent exaggerated cartoony mannerisms of a manga/anime is part of how all of the above becomes endearing and not outright embarrassing to watch. Even the MCU movies as campy as they can be are still wrapped with a thin layer of irony and half the cast turn into witty wise crackers. One thing a lot of people fail to appreciate is how Dragonball effectively swerves from "look at these goofballs" to tense "holy shit there's no way they can beat this guy". I know it all sounds vague but I can't imagine them pulling off the contrast between the Ginyu Tokusentai being hyped up as these dark brutal warriors and then coming down being these goofy flamboyant dancing posers and then oh shit they actually ARE these dark brutal warriors as the big lumbering dumbass proceeds to snap a child's neck while his partners watch in genuine fear that they're about to be killed. I think that's too much to ask from a 2-3 hour movie that's also trying to fit within the limitations of live-action actors.
 
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Sander VF

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
25,956
Tbilisi, Georgia
Yeah like most adapted movies there will probably be a big climatic battle or disaster scene near the end.

But that's not what the movie is about, it's a mystery film based on an adventure game starring a Pikachu who is very specifically not a strong fighter and uses his intellect.

But you can't do that with Dragonball. Dragonball needs lots and lots of lots of fighting scenes and spectacle and big battles.
Thing is, I'm not entirely convinced that the setting of these hypothetical DBZ movies would be any harder pill to swallow than what you have in a typical cosmic superhero movie. On a purely conceptual level, Saiyan Saga is basically Man of Steel with more martial arts and mysticism (and a bit of an underdog dynamic) and less dour navel gazing bullcrap.

It also helps that the cookier elements of DBZ's Earth (like animal people and living dinosaurs) take a backseat in the Z part of the saga, to the point where they can downplay or straight up ignore some of them. The space stuff of DBZ is not hard to sell really, it's not too different from cosmic superhero stuff. The only things I can think of that presents any real difficulty are the afterlife segments that would have to be in a Saiyan Saga movie.

As far as the focus on action and spectacle goes, I don't think that superdudes beating the crap out of each other in big epic battles limits Dragon Ball's audience reach. It's a big part of the IP's appeal. If over the top action was a turn off to mainstream audiences, then every blockbuster under the sun wouldn't have a whole third act reserved for CG shit crashing into other CG shit.

Also another thing about Pokemon is that if it proves to be a success it is looking to be, you can bet that the follow ups will go whole hog into Pokemon trainer stuff and the like. This is them taking it easy in the beginning.

Lemme try and elaborate as best as I can.
Take someone like Goku, he's a manchild who is dumb as a rock most of the time, really likes to fight and has little to no social awareness.
His character is inherently very cartoony, there's nothing sarcastic or ironic about him, he doesn't make jokes or remarks or quips. That's just how he is partly to be funny and partly to be somewhat relateable to an incredibly young audience.

And I just really don't think that kinda stuff can really translate well into a live action format because the inherent exaggerated cartoony mannerisms of a manga/anime is part of how all of the above becomes endearing and not outright embarrassing to watch. Even the MCU movies as campy as they can be are still wrapped with a thin layer of irony and half the cast turn into witty wise crackers. One thing a lot of people fail to appreciate is how Dragonball effectively swerves from "look at these goofballs" to tense "holy shit there's no way they can beat this guy". I know it all sounds vague but I can't imagine them pulling off the contrast between the Ginyu Tokusentai being hyped up as these dark brutal warriors and then coming down being these goofy flamboyant dancing posers and then oh shit they actually ARE these dark brutal warriors as the big lumbering dumbass proceeds to snap a child's neck while his partners watch in genuine fear that they're about to be killed. I think that's too much to ask from a 2-3 hour movie that's also trying to fit within the limitations of live-action actors.
These are very convincing points actually. While the gag manga roots are very muted in Z, they are still very much there and would present a challenge to any adaptation.

Perhaps my belief in feasibility is simply overly emboldened by seeing positive reception towards a concept that was pretty much laughed off on paper by everyone here, including myself.

Whatever the case though, I'm sure we'll see for ourselves sooner or later. If someone snorted enough cocaine to greenlight that weirdo Sonic movie with Gangsta Paradise trailer music (to be fair Detective Pikachu is conceptually similar except it works somehow) and if someone else resolved to pull off fucking One Piece on a Netflix budget, then they WILL come for Dragon Ball sooner or later.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
42,700
It was red hot when Evolution came out. In fact it's never stopped being popular

They could have gotten the Kung Fu Hustle director to make a live action Dragonball years ago, but didn't, so I have no faith anymore
 
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Sander VF

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
25,956
Tbilisi, Georgia
It was red hot when Evolution came out. In fact it's never stopped being popular
Yeah but it's even redder and hotter now.

Another difference is that pop culture is into pushing nostalgia in a way it simply wasn't in 2009 or whenever that thing got released.

As I said, it's gonna happen. It will probably not be good if the other anime movies are any indication, but I do believe that an MCU-esque faithful execution is not impossible and posit that the franchise could be big in cinema in that specific scenario.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
Yeah but it's even redder and hotter now.

Another difference is that pop culture is into pushing nostalgia in a way it simply wasn't in 2009 or whenever that thing got released.

As I said, it's gonna happen. It will probably not be good if the other anime movies are any indication, but I do believe that an MCU-esque faithful execution is not impossible and posit that the franchise could be big in cinema in that specific scenario.

Like I said if they just made a slightly less silly, bigger budget Kung Fu Hustle, that would be the perfect live action DBZ movie. Tonally it fits the series fairly well and the director knows how to direct crazy action scenes
 

HardRojo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,119
Peru
Spend that money on giving the show consistent animation, better schedule and proper choreography. The ToP and the Broly movie were a step in the right direction.
 

viskod

Member
Nov 9, 2017
4,396
No go ahead.

If Dragon Ball Evolution made Toriyama so angry that he felt inspired to create Beerus and it got us Super then who knows what another American piece of shit will inspire him to create for the franchise.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,125
Sydney
Thing is, I'm not entirely convinced that the setting of these hypothetical DBZ movies would be any harder pill to swallow than what you have in a typical cosmic superhero movie. On a purely conceptual level, Saiyan Saga is basically Man of Steel with more martial arts and mysticism (and a bit of an underdog dynamic) and less dour navel gazing bullcrap.

It also helps that the cookier elements of DBZ's Earth (like animal people and living dinosaurs) take a backseat in the Z part of the saga, to the point where they can downplay or straight up ignore some of them. The space stuff of DBZ is not hard to sell really, it's not too different from cosmic superhero stuff. The only things I can think of that presents any real difficulty are the afterlife segments that would have to be in a Saiyan Saga movie.

As far as the focus on action and spectacle goes, I don't think that superdudes beating the crap out of each other in big epic battles limits Dragon Ball's audience reach. It's a big part of the IP's appeal. If over the top action was a turn off to mainstream audiences, then every blockbuster under the sun wouldn't have a whole third act reserved for CG shit crashing into other CG shit.

Also another thing about Pokemon is that if it proves to be a success it is looking to be, you can bet that the follow ups will go whole hog into Pokemon trainer stuff and the like. This is them taking it easy in the beginning.

Hmm, you've got me thinking here, and if I HAD to do a Dragonball movie (and obviously Goku is the main character), I wouldn't base it on Man of Steel, since that is something that is an origin story that has to hinge off of a bunch of lore and, as you say, "dour navel gazing bullcrap". It just doesn't work for Dragonball in a movie, as Evolutions showed us.

I'd do it like Dredd or Fury Road. A self contained story where Goku has to fight his way out of an incredibly violent, self contained situation with little connection to the wider lore, but at the same time you get a sense of the tone of the series, and Goku himself.

Like maybe he's coming back from Namek and he crashes on a planet, and gets tricked by the aliens inhabiting it and has to fight his way through a bunch of foes.

And since it's a self contained movie, each challenge in his way reveals a little more about Goku as a fighter and a character, and you can only guess at his wider motivations. But since you don't have the ability to do an origin story, the fighting, which is the thing you need to keep front and centre, can tell you all you need to know.
 
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Sander VF

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
25,956
Tbilisi, Georgia
No go ahead.

If Dragon Ball Evolution made Toriyama so angry that he felt inspired to create Beerus and it got us Super then who knows what another American piece of shit will inspire him to create for the franchise.
He probably wouldn't let them make another one without getting a really good, convincing pitch first.

Hmm, you've got me thinking here, and if I HAD to do a Dragonball movie (and obviously Goku is the main character), I wouldn't base it on Man of Steel, since that is something that is an origin story that has to hinge off of a bunch of lore and, as you say, "dour navel gazing bullcrap". It just doesn't work for Dragonball in a movie, as Evolutions showed us.

I'd do it like Dredd or Fury Road. A self contained story where Goku has to fight his way out of an incredibly violent, self contained situation with little connection to the wider lore, but at the same time you get a sense of the tone of the series, and Goku himself.

Like maybe he's coming back from Namek and he crashes on a planet, and gets tricked by the aliens inhabiting it and has to fight his way through a bunch of foes.

And since it's a self contained movie, each challenge in his way reveals a little more about Goku as a fighter and a character, and you can only guess at his wider motivations. But since you don't have the ability to do an origin story, the fighting, which is the thing you need to keep front and centre, can tell you all you need to know.
That's a pretty cool idea, but I imagine most people would want Saiyan Saga as the first DBZ movie. Something like this:

I kinda feel like the beginning of the Broly movie is a good template for a live action Dragon Ball. Show the destruction of Planet Vegeta, Goku gets sent to Earth, and then you do maybe a Spider-Man 2-esque quick montage of important story moments from Dragon Ball (Goku meeting Bulma, Goku going Oozaru for the first time, Piccolo vs Goku at the tournament), all leading to the present day at Kame House with Goku and Gohan visiting their friends.

From there you loosely adapt the Saiyan Saga. Raditz kills Goku, Goku trains in the afterlife while Nappa fights the good guys on Earth, Goku returns to take out Nappa and fight Vegeta as the climax. Post credits scene with Freeza.
Aside from that montage, I guess you could have Piccolo telling Gohan stories about his beef with his father while the latter is under his wing.

The problem is, the pacing would have to be nailed really well.
 
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bobbychalkers

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,603
Big budget 2D or 3D animated movie like Spiderverse, sure


Live action, hell no. A lot of anime could never be faithfully translated out of their original medium and Dragon Ball is patient zero.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,635
Like I said if they just made a slightly less silly, bigger budget Kung Fu Hustle, that would be the perfect live action DBZ movie. Tonally it fits the series fairly well and the director knows how to direct crazy action scenes

The problem is that Kung Fu Hustle, while a good movie, didn't do well at the box office here in the US - its initial theatrical run grossed around $17 million total. Part of that comes from the fact that it was a subtitled movie and subtitled films have a far lower ceiling than English films by default, but the other reason is just that the martial arts genre doesn't have a particularly wide appeal among moviegoers.

This idea I keep seeing throughout the thread that all you have to do is "MCU" DBZ and it'll pull a billion dollars at the box office makes no logical sense. The MCU took years to spin up into the cultural zeitgeist monster it is now, and it really took the Avengers coming out at literally the exact perfect time for the whole thing to hit its flashpoint.

Making a DBZ movie would come with a huge set of potential challenges, including a massive flame-war regarding casting and cultural appropriation, the budget would naturally be absurdly high, and the stigma of the last live-action DB film being an absolutely colossal failure won't be washed away just because Broly did well in a limited run for a few weeks.
 

thewienke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,946
Some of the plot points would be hard to replicate within a movie or two.

Vegeta's face turn happened over the course of like 100 hours of show. It felt fairly reasonable as it was happening. I'm not sure how you'd show this realistically without planning for a DBZ cinematic universe from the start. Let's say that the more recent face turns in Super would take an even longer time.

I also think the Universe Tournament saga would make for the best movie but I'm not sure how you get there out the gate without developing the characters into what they are.
 
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Sander VF

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
25,956
Tbilisi, Georgia
This idea I keep seeing throughout the thread that all you have to do is "MCU" DBZ and it'll pull a billion dollars at the box office makes no logical sense. The MCU took years to spin up into the cultural zeitgeist monster it is now, and it really took the Avengers coming out at literally the exact perfect time for it to hit its flashpoint.
The thing is, I do believe that DBZ franchise is already within the cultural zeitgeist worldwide (not in every country though. It's a non-entity here, for example).

Perhaps I'm vastly overestimating it based on the internet discourse (reports of people coming out into the streets to watch DB Super, celebrities referencing it, etc).
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
The problem is that Kung Fu Hustle, while a good movie, didn't do well at the box office here in the US - its initial theatrical run grossed around $17 million total. Part of that comes from the fact that it was a subtitled movie and subtitled films have a far lower ceiling than English films by default, but the other reason is just that the martial arts genre doesn't have a particularly wide appeal among moviegoers.

This idea I keep seeing throughout the thread that all you have to do is "MCU" DBZ and it'll pull a billion dollars at the box office makes no logical sense. The MCU took years to spin up into the cultural zeitgeist monster it is now, and it really took the Avengers coming out at literally the exact perfect time for the whole thing to hit its flashpoint.

Making a DBZ movie would come with a huge set of potential challenges, including a massive flame-war regarding casting and cultural appropriation, the budget would naturally be absurdly high, and the stigma of the last live-action DB film being an absolutely colossal failure won't be washed away just because Broly did well in a limited run for a few weeks.

You listed all the reasons Kung Fu Hustle failed, reasons a DBZ movie wouldn't have. And since when ahs the martial arts genre not had wide appeal? Jackie Chan become a cultural icon in the US solely because of his martial arts skills. Jet Li is only popular because of his. Crounching Tiger is one of the highest grossing subtitled movies in the US and it was martial arts focused. All you need is a compelling main character and good action pieces. DBZ's name recognition will do most of the rest. I don't think anyone is saying Dragonball needs to be a cinematic universe or anything similar to the MCU. They could start with 1 decently received movie and go from there. Nor do I think it would need to have an absurdely high budget, unless you consider the DC/Marvel movies to have those

Vegeta's face turn happened over the course of like 100 hours of show. It felt fairly reasonable as it was happening. I'm not sure how you'd show this realistically without planning for a DBZ cinematic universe from the start. Let's say that the more recent face turns in Super would take an even longer time.
Lol, Jason Statham's character face turned over the course of 1 F&F movie. Hell, he and the Rock now basically have a buddy cop movie coming out. It's not unprecedented nor would it require a tons of movies to have audiences accept it