• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

ninezeroone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
296
www.wired.com

Xbox Has Always Chased Power. That's Not Enough Anymore

Specs go a long way. But in exclusive interviews with WIRED, the Xbox team explains why they're thinking outside the teraflops.
Pulled some quotes:
In interviews with WIRED, Xbox executives detailed a more holistic strategy going into their splashy November launches. As with the previous generation, Microsoft will offer a high-octane Xbox and a stripped-down alternative: the Xbox Series X and Series S. But Xbox's two-console launch is just the superscript. "So much of my experience as a gamer 10, 20 years ago was dictated by what device I played on," Xbox head Phil Spencer tells WIRED. Today, he says, he's pushing for a reality in which "the device doesn't dictate to me what I can do—I'm going to want to bring my experience to any device, whether it's a PC, my phone, or a great console."

"It was a pivot," says Liz Hamren, head of gaming engineering at Xbox, of Xbox's dual-console, next-gen strategy. "The truth is that the CPU and I/O performance is roughly equivalent between these two products. It's really around the resolution." The $500 Series X falls in line with Xbox's machismo hardware traditions, while the $300 Series S mirrors a more contemporary understanding of gamers—people less likely to stand open-mouthed in the "4K TV" aisles of Best Buy, and more likely to unwind after a tough shift with 30 minutes of brain candy wherever they park their body. While both consoles have essentially the same CPU, the Series S has no disc drive, less storage, and sacrifices the Series X's tricked-out 8K graphical capabilities. If you're in the business of comparing teraflops, a measure of a console's graphical power, the Xbox Series S has three times fewer than the Series X. But it's still a next-gen console; it will enhance some older Xbox games to a maximum of 1440p. (2017's Xbox One X supports 4K resolution.)

"There was a lot of debate. Should it have a disc drive or not? Is this next-gen performance? What does next-gen performance mean and how do we measure it?" says Hamren. Accessibility is one way; Hamren says the $300 price point for the Series S was an early objective. She also wanted people to feel comfortable gaming for just 20 minute sittings, perhaps a habit built off mobile and popular online games' pick-up-put-down designs. Xbox's new Quick Resume technology, available on both consoles, lets players suspend action in their Outer Worlds games and immediately resume wherever they left off in Yakuza 0. "I can walk into my house, maybe I have an Alexa or a Google Home, and I'm like, 'Turn on my Xbox.' I can sit down, I can play, and then I can go off and do something else, versus psychologically feeling like I need more time," she says.

Sarah Bond, who heads up Xbox's gaming ecosystem division, says the company has learned a lot from how players interacted with Game Pass on the Xbox One. "We see that people actually spend 20 percent more time playing games, try 30 percent more genres, and play 40 percent more total games, including outside the subscription," she says. "We have seen the highest levels of engagement ever on our own games and growth in the playerbase." After landing on Game Pass, she says, Grounded reached a million players in 48 hours. Microsoft-owned Minecraft's user base has ballooned to 132 million.

Rather than "power" or "performance," Xbox's big word this time around is "choice." Audiophiles and cinema geeks can enjoy music and film wherever they go; gaming is making that transition, too. Xbox head Spencer says that now more than ever the company sees customers on PC who they never see on Xbox. "We don't look at them as lesser because they didn't go buy one of our consoles," he says. "At some point, we're going to have Xbox customers who only know us on their phone, and that's also fine."
 

Chuck795

Member
May 7, 2020
738
Xcloud on the phone is super cool, glad to see it seems that they will be expanding on that.
 

MrBob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,668
PC Gamers molding MS next generation of systems:

Watching Xbox One, PC, and Game Pass players modulate their settings on 2019's Gears 5 or the Halo: The Master Chief Collection, Spencer noticed that while some adjusted for the best possible fidelity (even if a 30-frames-per-second frame rate woodchipped their gameplay), a lot optimized for feel. They'd easily sacrifice a couple of luminescent sunbeams for more reactive shooter mechanics. The critical question for the Xbox team: Why was that compromise so attractive?
 

Shark

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,126
Raleigh, NC
This really reads like an ad for most of it. 'Unholy-good'?

Phil's candid response about ray tracing was pretty endearing though. As was his realistic take on how little of their audience has or will have a 4K TV. I liked reading that.

The S targeting casual players who they think want to play for short 20 minute bites seems at odds with getting the most out of a subscription service as that seems like the primary way Xbox expects you to play on that box.

This gen is going to be fascinating. Something's going to give and the landscape probably won't resemble things as they are now in 6-7 years. Going back to an article like this when that time comes will either be prophetic or a miss. I doubt there will be little in between.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,320
The S targeting casual players who they think want to play for short 20 minute bites seems at odds with getting the most out of a subscription service as that seems like the primary way Xbox expects you to play on that box.
Not really? I mean the expectation is this group generally does not beat games and will be likely to bounce around if they had freedom to just download a new game as opposed to going months without playing a game.
 

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
This really reads like an ad for most of it. 'Unholy-good'?

Phil's candid response about ray tracing was pretty endearing though. As was his realistic take on how little of their audience has or will have a 4K TV. I liked reading that.

The S targeting casual players who they think want to play for short 20 minute bites seems at odds with getting the most out of a subscription service as that seems like the primary way Xbox expects you to play on that box.

This gen is going to be fascinating. Something's going to give and the landscape probably won't resemble things as they are now in 6-7 years. Going back to an article like this when that time comes will either be prophetic or a miss. I doubt there will be little in between.
Honestly, I'm so pleased with his comment on ray tracing. I've yet to see a single example that justifies losing the ~40% framerate enabling ray tracing takes up. Just zero interest in right now.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Game Pass is a ridiculous thing to exist. And it only exists because Microsoft is very big.
No lies.

MS have achieved the gold standard of gaming eco systems, there's nothing that compares currently. PC, console, cloud, all seamlessly integrated. Just fill it with new games!
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,359

Legit changed my gaming habits. If Microsoft can keep the service at the quality it is now, or better, with a similarish price, I'd be very happy with the service and willing to pay.

MS have achieved the gold standard of gaming eco systems, there's nothing that compares currently. PC, console, cloud, all seamlessly integrated. Just fill it with new games!

They did a fantastic job here too. Few things I would love to see:

1.) Hopefully one day Apple & MS can work things out (mainly on the Apple end)

2.) They need to keep improving the Windows Store & Xbox App for PC

3.) Hopefully drop Gold on Console, or at least on F2P games

4.) New studios need to deliver - I'm looking forward to seeing what they make
 

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,096
Chicago
Game Pass, Game Pass, Game Pass. They struck absolute gold and nobody else is even close to matching the value proposition it offers. Once people subscribe, they're engaged with the Xbox ecosystem in some way or another and that will encourage folks to take the extra step and purchase a Series S or Series X to remain engaged in it. GP is easily their biggest asset.
 

Zelas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,020
No lies.

MS have achieved the gold standard of gaming eco systems, there's nothing that compares currently. PC, console, cloud, all seamlessly integrated. Just fill it with new games!
We currently have a gold standard ecosystem WITH games in Steam. Its been available across several form factors too. The Windows Store and the issues it causes is still very problematic.
 

Deleted member 68874

Account closed at user request
Banned
May 10, 2020
10,441
Really looking forward to this upcoming generation. The Xbox ecosystem is going to save me thousands of dollars over the next 7 years.

Gamepass is bringing STALKER 2 to consoles, so it's already humanity's greatest invention.
 

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
10,515
Chicagoland
I could have asked this in 2 dozen or more older threads, but why can't (or when will) xCloud be used on a large HD / UHD screen?

Will it come to web browsers? That's the one thing Google Stadia seems to do more of, but I realize everyone who is paying money, or will be paying money for these things, is really just "beta testing" cloud streaming right now, and for the next couple years. Even though its officially launched.
 

Shark

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,126
Raleigh, NC
Not really? I mean the expectation is this group generally does not beat games and will be likely to bounce around if they had freedom to just download a new game as opposed to going months without playing a game.
I guess I feel like if this hypothetical person or group of people exists in a meaningful way (like MS says it does) and their gaming habits were that limited and sporadic, an ongoing subscription service with a huge library seems like absolute overkill. Why wouldn't they just stick to F2P or FIFA?

MIcrosoft in the article thinks games are akin to how most people prefer to consume music and movies and I'm not sure I see it. They're very different experiences. Music and movies almost always match my mood and temperament at a given time. I don't think people sift through a library of games the same way. Not to mention that music and movies are a much more passive activity with a different level of required attentiveness.

I'm willing to admit I could be comically wrong about this with a huge blind spot. Microsoft obviously has the data, research and cohesive vision to make this gambit and to reach an underserved specific type of 'casual' gamer.

Microsoft from 2020 and beyond is casting the biggest net that lets no consumer slip through. I'm fascinated by this strategy and how it actually plays out.
 

Deleted member 68874

Account closed at user request
Banned
May 10, 2020
10,441
I could have asked this in 2 dozen or more older threads, but why can't (or when will) xCloud be used on a large HD / UHD screen?

Will it come to web browsers? That's the one thing Google Stadia seems to do more of, but I realize everyone who is paying money, or will be paying money for these things, is really just "beta testing" cloud streaming right now, and for the next couple years. Even though its officially launched.
While not confirmed, I wouldnt be surprised to see them hold off on that until the Series X blades are installed. 720p on a large 4K screen wont be pretty.
 

Firefly

Member
Jul 10, 2018
8,622
I could have asked this in 2 dozen or more older threads, but why can't (or when will) xCloud be used on a large HD / UHD screen?
Idea is to have gaming on the go and make it accessible for people who want to play these games without buying any console or PC.

You could sideload the app and make it run on a TV though.
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,424
PC Gamers molding MS next generation of systems:

Watching Xbox One, PC, and Game Pass players modulate their settings on 2019's Gears 5 or the Halo: The Master Chief Collection, Spencer noticed that while some adjusted for the best possible fidelity (even if a 30-frames-per-second frame rate woodchipped their gameplay), a lot optimized for feel. They'd easily sacrifice a couple of luminescent sunbeams for more reactive shooter mechanics. The critical question for the Xbox team: Why was that compromise so attractive?

Thats been going on forever in PC gaming, I think it must have been quake 3 arena the first time I was watching a Clan vs Clan tourney and one of the players had their visuals stripped down to like... No textures, just polygonal surfaces; and when I asked why in IRC.EntertheGame everyone explained it was the way to cap your FPS easily because performance matters in competitive play, and beauty doesn't. 🤷‍♂️

That moment probably birthed me as a fps over fidelity fan.
 

Grue

Member
Sep 7, 2018
4,890
Good read, even if nothing we haven't necessarily heard before.

This really reads like an ad for most of it. 'Unholy-good'?

Yeah, even if you agree with the article's take on things, it's not exactly impartial journalism:
It is a euphoric experience to scroll through the Game Pass library and know that it will instantly delete any FOMO you had from missing a big game launch. ... What luxury.


This though was a neat summary of the strategy, and really emphasised to me the complete shift in philosophy we've had from the Xbox One launch:

"They're deemphasizing themselves as the center of the living room and more emphasizing getting people into the ecosystem," says Joost van Dreunen, cofounder of game analytics company SuperData


Finally, "deep melting" needs its own hashtag:

"I think we're really good at the melting-into-the-couch," she [Liz Hamren, Xbox] says. "I think we've nailed that. We'll continue to be great at that. We're never gonna abandon it. But also, I do want us to feel like no matter how you play—deep melting into the couch or casual—we support it."
 

Neural

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,820
Italy
No lies.

MS have achieved the gold standard of gaming eco systems, there's nothing that compares currently. PC, console, cloud, all seamlessly integrated. Just fill it with new games!
So true for me. I'm actually playing an awesome game, Wasteland 3, without having paid for it and while Xbox is my destination of choice, I often do half-hour sessions at lunch break where I just do some exploration, manage my characters/inventory and so on. It definitely changed my gaming habits.
 

Bede-x

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,388
Assuming they mean loot boxes are bad, it's actually nice to see them mention them as some of the things that has an effect, other than teraflops. We just need them to say microtransactions, instead of loot boxes.
 

Xx 720

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,920
I think they should aim the advertising of the S at families, in particular with younger kids. For a relatively cheap price you could get the kids an S and gamepass and never need to buy anything else.
 

Shoshi

Banned
Jan 9, 2018
1,661
User Banned (1 Week) - Platform Warring With long history
So Xbox players spends less time on each game compared to PS4? Quantity over quality is what they seem to be going for IMHO.
 

4KLobster

Member
Dec 17, 2017
283
Japan
Gamepass is awesome, no doubt.

PC Xbox app, beta or not, is also not awesome, like, not at all... software, on Windows, they should be able to know one or two things about it, no? Must say I find this baffling.

Last game played on GamePass: Bards Tale 3; more or less in a casual 30mn here and there way so, this means I am their target audience for the S, right?
 

crazillo

Member
Apr 5, 2018
8,179
Xbox is really offering many entry points into their ecosystem, and they all target different players. Series X is for enthusiast console users, PC and Steam are for PC enthusiasts, Series S is for customers with limited budgets as well as casuals, kids and families, and Android shall reach people who are already on their other products or reach audiences in countries and continents where there is hardly any console business. Xbox definitely always used to have that power and hardcore narrative going, this is definitely changing alongside the much broader array of content that we can expect in the future.
 

meenseen84

Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,933
Minneapolis
I could have asked this in 2 dozen or more older threads, but why can't (or when will) xCloud be used on a large HD / UHD screen?

They have really been saying that Xcloud is meant to be an additive experience for their current customers. They want to get that right first.

Also, I could be way off with this, but a lot of people leave their TVs in a "standard" mode which have a lot post processing and latency. Then when you combine that with the latency of cloud, Bluetooth, being Xbox One S games (mostly 30fps), you probably aren't getting a good experience and they don't want to push that. When they upgrade the datacenters with Series X, you will see higher frames and hopefully the benefits we are seeing with HDMI 2.1 can somehow put Smart TV apps into auto low latency or game mode.
 

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
10,515
Chicagoland
They have really been saying that Xcloud is meant to be an additive experience for their current customers. They want to get that right first.

Also, I could be way off with this, but a lot of people leave their TVs in a "standard" mode which have a lot post processing and latency. Then when you combine that with the latency of cloud, Bluetooth, being Xbox One S games (mostly 30fps), you probably aren't getting a good experience and they don't want to push that. When they upgrade the datacenters with Series X, you will see higher frames and hopefully the benefits we are seeing with HDMI 2.1 can somehow put Smart TV apps into auto low latency or game mode.

Those are very good points. Hadn't thought of some of those.
 

Voodoopeople

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,848
Judging by how high the review scores have been to their recent releases I would say they have both.

Indeed. I mean, just going on the apparently fabled Metacritic, Sony averaged out at 73 in 2020 so far. Microsoft at 77. Across all the games they both released. So the quality argument seems to not really hold water if it's trying to be used against MS.

I'm personally holding out for Sony to show much more on the wider services front, but their recent PR strategy so far leaves me thinking they aren't innovating in that space.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,365
I've said it before and i'll keep saying this but Game Pass is heralding in a golden age for gaming. It's honestly incredible. I remember saving up for months to buy 1 game on the NES, and sometimes my naive kid self fucked up and bought terrible shit like Double Dragon 3 that i then basically had to wring every last bit of enjoyment i could out of it. Kids these days have an affordable option to play more games than they ever would realistically have the time to tackle, and those of us who aren't mega rich who need to be careful in these uncertain times can enjoy their gaming hobby without it breaking the bank. What more could you ask for, really?
 

Hockeymac18

Member
Nov 14, 2017
832
I could have asked this in 2 dozen or more older threads, but why can't (or when will) xCloud be used on a large HD / UHD screen?

Will it come to web browsers? That's the one thing Google Stadia seems to do more of, but I realize everyone who is paying money, or will be paying money for these things, is really just "beta testing" cloud streaming right now, and for the next couple years. Even though its officially launched.

I think that's the long-term plan - i.e. make it available on as many hardware platforms as is possible. See: the Netflix model.

Obviously, it's not that simple, though; especially when some of the makers of these hardware have their own game streaming solutions and would rather not allow MS's competing on their platform. This is largely why you probably won't see Xbox Game Pass streaming on PS5 or an Apple TV anytime soon. I do think, eventually, we will get there - just not sure when.
 

Hasi

Banned
Apr 25, 2020
283
So Xbox players spends less time on each game compared to PS4? Quantity over quality is what they seem to be going for IMHO.
That's exactly how it looks honestly. Xbox acquiring Bethesda pretty much screams it

Ah yes, Bethesda, a publisher infamous for its shovelware.

At this point, why bother reading an article if you're only looking for things to twist along to your narrative?

She says people play 40% more games, but this is partly offset by the fact that people also spend 20% more time gaming.

And how do you know that it's not the opposite: people spend more time engaging with high quality experiences rather than grinding collectables while they save up for their next game. When time, rather than money is your limiting resource it makes sense to only play stuff you really enjoy.
 

RF Switch

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,118
Ah yes, Bethesda, a publisher infamous for its shovelware.

At this point, why bother reading an article if you're only looking for things to twist along to your narrative?

She says people play 40% more games, but this is partly offset by the fact that people also spend 20% more time gaming.

And how do you know that it's not the opposite: people spend more time engaging with high quality experiences rather than grinding collectables while they save up for their next game. When time, rather than money is your limiting resource it makes sense to only play stuff you really enjoy.
I think your sarcasm meter is broken
 

Voodoopeople

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,848

Not sure that would mean a bias or anything. They are though reflecting a very common sentiment amongst the general public. I mean, if Sony or Nintendo quadrupled their developer staff in 2 yrs and launched a successful new service that tens of millions are on course to be subscribing to, it starts to penetrate non gaming specific media.
 

catboy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,322
Not sure that would mean a bias or anything. They are though reflecting a very common sentiment amongst the general public. I mean, if Sony or Nintendo quadrupled their developer staff in 2 yrs and launched a successful new service that tens of millions are on course to be subscribing to, it starts to penetrate non gaming specific media.
i more meant that they are a very well known and popular outlet so of course they will get pr puff pieces. just like how sony used them to reveal ps5 details, it's not going to be critical journalism in these articles.
 

Voodoopeople

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,848
i more meant that they are a very well known and popular outlet so of course they will get pr puff pieces. just like how sony used them to reveal ps5 details, it's not going to be critical journalism in these articles.

Yeah. Agreed. It's like when mass market sits up and pays attention at console launches and e3, then ignores it all again.
 

shark97

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
5,327
god i hate this article lol. So many cliches. "it's not about power". Yeah. Yeah it is.

The Xbox One's graphical power was off the charts when it launched in 2013.

There were literally massive huge threads in 2013 roasting Xbox One alive for it's 720P COD port as soon as that became known, but ok wired.
 

FGLS1992

Banned
Apr 8, 2020
423
Indeed. I mean, just going on the apparently fabled Metacritic, Sony averaged out at 73 in 2020 so far. Microsoft at 77. Across all the games they both released. So the quality argument seems to not really hold water if it's trying to be used against MS.

I'm personally holding out for Sony to show much more on the wider services front, but their recent PR strategy so far leaves me thinking they aren't innovating in that space.

And that is with Xbox Game Studios releasing more games than PlayStation Studios.

Next year the output will be good, and 2022 will be bananas.
 

Voodoopeople

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,848
And that is with Xbox Game Studios releasing more games than PlayStation Studios.

Next year the output will be good, and 2022 will be bananas.

What is currently undeniable is that Sony releases have been EVENTS. MS need to get some of that themselves and with their new studios they have all the right ingredients. Short of Halo Infinite I wonder what their next one will be. Starfield?
 

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
Cecilia is respected, right? "Unholy-good" doesn't sound like something that Microsoft PR asked them to say, sounds like she's just injecting her opinion. Which she does in some of these articles. Which seems fine.

Anyway, this is a lot of reading haha. Interesting so far!
 

Adrifi

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jan 5, 2019
3,466
the Spanish Basque Country
So Xbox players spends less time on each game compared to PS4? Quantity over quality is what they seem to be going for IMHO.
That's logical since Game Pass exists. A lot of people try a game, they don't like it and they uninstall it. I guess PS4 players play fewer games as PS Now is not as popular, and that's why they spend more time on each one in average.
 

FGLS1992

Banned
Apr 8, 2020
423
What is currently undeniable is that Sony releases have been EVENTS. MS need to get some of that themselves and with their new studios they have all the right ingredients. Short of Halo Infinite I wonder what their next one will be. Starfield?

Yes. Sony this year alone had and will have bigger games than Xbox this Gen and this is the difference right now. Hopefully the field levels and the competition rages on even more to our benefit.
 

12Danny123

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,722
They have really been saying that Xcloud is meant to be an additive experience for their current customers. They want to get that right first.

Also, I could be way off with this, but a lot of people leave their TVs in a "standard" mode which have a lot post processing and latency. Then when you combine that with the latency of cloud, Bluetooth, being Xbox One S games (mostly 30fps), you probably aren't getting a good experience and they don't want to push that. When they upgrade the datacenters with Series X, you will see higher frames and hopefully the benefits we are seeing with HDMI 2.1 can somehow put Smart TV apps into auto low latency or game mode.

Microsoft can take advantage of a loophole via PWAs. They can create a Game Pass PWA and create a controller that connects to WIFI.