WindowsCentral: Xbox rumor roundup: 'Xbox Series S' Lockhart, new Xbox headset, May event, and more

tapedeck · Apr 21, 2020

What are the chances Lockhart can only stream next gen Series X games with Xcloud but it plays everything else natively?

For the record I do not believe this is the case at all but I was just thinking about it cause someone brought up that original leak that got so much right and claimed Lockhart was a 'streaming console'.

Pryme · Apr 21, 2020

Kingpin722 said:
Lockhart is being placed between the 2 superior consoles (Series X, PS5) and the Switch (cheaper, and arguably provides the most value of all). I don't see the vision at all for it.

The key word is 'affordable'. That's what you're missing.

Soapbox Killer · Apr 21, 2020

Taking in to account that the so called Xbox Series S will have a more modern chipset, even at 4 TF, I imagine this will be the equivalent of a Xbox One X with no disc drive, an SSD and more RAM.

The cost is where I am trying to figure this out at.

For an Xbox Series S to make sense in a world that still has the One X, it will have to be $200 less than the Series X but still more than a Xbox One X.

XSX. $549.99
XSS. $329.99
XBOX. $249.99

Its all very interesting indeed.

Yerffej · Apr 21, 2020

Lant_War said:
Yup. Microsoft's marketing backfired

There is no marketing for it yet. What?

Welfare · Apr 21, 2020

EvilBoris said:
Yep. That 1TB SSD is half of that.

A UHD Drive
GPU+CPU+Ram, casing , PSU, shipping,manufacture

299 seems like massively unreal expectations.

It's supposed to be digital only. Cut the UHD drive and you can build the system around that missing part, meaning a smaller case and overall lighter. Should be pretty small, and the rumor is that it's "flat", so most likely looking closer to a traditional console than the Series X tower.

Pryme · Apr 21, 2020

tapedeck said:
What are the chances Lockhart can only stream next gen Series X games with Xcloud but it plays everything else natively?

For the record I do not believe this is the case at all but I was just thinking about it cause someone brought up that original leak that got so much right and claimed Lockhart was a 'streaming console'.

Why wouldn't they just make an app for the Xbox One SAD then?

Deleted member 224 · Apr 21, 2020

DamnedLife said:
If it is going to be a cheaper option, then it won't reach those theoretical peak power anyway since it will have some cut down components. Also now architecture matters all of a sudden for TF numbers huh??

XSX, PS5, and Lockhart (if it exists) all have the same gpu architecture. Xb1X is a current gen machine, you can't directly compare its TF# to next gen TF#s

Deleted member 24417 · Apr 21, 2020

thefollower said:

Xbox fan who cries on Twitter because muh Sony muh fanboyism? Breaking news

Jaded Alyx · Apr 21, 2020

tapedeck said:
What are the chances Lockhart can only stream next gen Series X games with Xcloud but it plays everything else natively?

That would be a total waste of the hardware.

CorpseLight · Apr 21, 2020

Godzilla24 said:
I think this is what bothers some folks even though PS5 will sell well too.

Both companies will be fine and everything will sell like crazy. The hardware is not the main differentiation this gen -- its the services.
PS+ needs and overhaul, and PSNow needs some sort of price bundling with it.
Gamepass Ultimate is just too amazing a bargain, especially for someone with even just a midrange pc / laptop.

AndyMc1888 · Apr 21, 2020

EvilBoris said:
Yep. That 1TB SSD is half of that.

A UHD Drive
GPU+CPU+Ram, casing , PSU, shipping,manufacture

299 seems like massively unreal expectations.

With it being disc less this is where if MS is in the mood for a gamble you can afford to take bigger loss margins - no discs means more money straight to them from digitise purchases which will average out a lot higher with gamepass also

Pryme · Apr 21, 2020

EvilBoris said:
Yep. That 1TB SSD is half of that.

A console maker isn't buying a 1TB SSD at volume pricing for a mass market device at a penny over $100. Most likely less than that.

tapedeck · Apr 21, 2020

Pryme said:
Why wouldn't they just make an app for the Xbox One SAD then?

Maybe cause it's supposed to replace One X power wise? Again I'm not saying it's the case (it doesn't make sense to me) I'm just thinking out loud.

Deleted member 224 · Apr 21, 2020

Lant_War said:
Of course, and I bet your average Joe doesn't even know the word teraflop, but this idea of "Lockhart is less powerful than the One X" is rather widespread across forums / social media. They'll be stuck between downplaying Teraflops or confusing people about what Lockhart is (if it ends up being 4TF, that is).

Not really, the X will miss out on the majority of next gen games, and the Digital Foundry comparisons between titles on the 2 consoles will make the differences clear.

Godzilla24 · Apr 21, 2020

People will buy lockhart the same reason many are just content with purchasing Xbox One or PS4 over One X or Pro respectively. They just want to play the games for all of next gen that is at an affordable price and maybe don't want to wait years for prices decreases. Same reason why many are content to just purchasing a 5500, 1060 or 2060 over 2080ti.

jsnepo · Apr 21, 2020

Can we assume multiplatform and Xbox exclusive games will be held back? Lowest denominator, etc. bullshit.

Welfare · Apr 21, 2020

Soapbox Killer said:
Taking in to account that the so called Xbox Series S will have a more modern chipset, even at 4 TF, I imagine this will be the equivalent of a Xbox One X with no disc drive, an SSD and more RAM.

The cost is where I am trying to figure this out at.

For an Xbox Series S to make sense in a world that still has the One X, it will have to be $200 less than the Series X but still more than a Xbox One X.

XSX. $549.99
XSS. $329.99
XBOX. $249.99

Its all very interesting indeed.

Xbox One X is dead this year. MS have been putting it on sale for $299 multiple times this year, and won't even wait to ship the Cyberpunk bundle in September. There might be a few units left on shelves this holiday.

AndyMc1888 · Apr 21, 2020

Lant_War said:
Yup. Microsoft's marketing backfired

They haven't marketed a thing - the type of people who will buy this console don't frequent forums like this anyway

shinobi602 · Apr 21, 2020

Discussion is about what I expected it to be 😄

Cyclonesweep · Apr 21, 2020

I'm not too worried about the baseline. Go looK at PC, devs have been working with varying shit forever.

If what they are saying is true dropping from Series X which is 4k down to 1080p saves a lot of processing power, turn off ray tracing, saves a bunch of processing power and maybe if the games run 60fps locked drop down to 30. Honestly doesn't sound like a major deal at all

arsene_P5 · Apr 21, 2020

DamnedLife said:
Though the question is can you really get a next gen experience as you put it with just a 4TF machine when even One X is more powerful and with recent sales really cheap. Also let's not forget no true net gen exclusives for < 2years too.

Microsoft promised in 2019 to support Xbox One for 1-2 years. cross Gen ends holiday 2021 for XGS.

The Lockhart GPU is more modern and stronger than the Xbox One X GPU, because it's based on RDNA2.

tyraniboah said:
So teraflops didn't matter when it became evident that the Series X is more powerful than PS5, but now we're suddenly worried about game development being held back by a console less powerful than PS5? Which is it? Because it's not both

made my day.

tapedeck said:
What are the chances Lockhart can only stream next gen Series X games with Xcloud but it plays everything else natively?

Zero. You wouldn't need an Zen 2 CPU, 4TF RDNA2 GPU, GDDR6 RAM and an SSD to make a streaming device.

Jerm411 · Apr 21, 2020

AndyMc1888 said:
They haven't marketed a thing - the type of people who will buy this console don't frequent forums like this anyway

I posted in the XBOX OT, I'll repeat it here....

Jerm411 said:
Well ya know...when all the parents flock in to stores this Black Friday or Christmas, they're going to be worried about "console baselines", terraflops, and Lockhart "holding back the gen" so it's all just DOOMED....

Lee Morris · Apr 21, 2020

Lothars said:
yeah that's my feeling on it too. I don't see Lockhart doing anything other than why does this exist?

I wouldn't want to be in there marketing department.

Judge said:
They haven't even shown games running on either console yet. People need to relax lol

It doesn't matter that they haven't shown it. It's 100% guaranteed lower spec machine than Series X. People know this will mean Xbox games are going to have to be nerfed so that it runs on this machine. Unless it's a cloud box.

nullZr0 · Apr 21, 2020

Why does the mockup have an Eject button with no disc drive?

aisback · Apr 21, 2020

DocH1X1 said:
Nah Cerny already said TF's and CU count doesnt matter! So its fine as is!

I was actually being serious when I wrote that. We know MS is pushing XCloud and it could be a great machine for that.

RedHeat · Apr 21, 2020

nullZr0 said:
Why does the mockup have an Eject button with no disc drive?

Maybe to eject an SDD? who the heck knows lol

Scarecrowe · Apr 21, 2020

shinobi602 said:
Discussion is about what I expected it to be 😄

😭 help me

DoradoWinston · Apr 21, 2020

you would think that all these engineers that post on PS5 spec threads and talk about its SSD would know the 4TF the Series S would have != 6tf on the Xbox One X lmao

Rabalder. · Apr 21, 2020

flaxknuckles said:
What games you think are going to be 4K 60fps with ray tracing if Minecraft with ray tracing runs at 30fps 1080p on Series X?

Minecraft RTX is fully path traced and features no traditional lighting which is an incredibly resource heavy solution to lighting. One we simply won't be seeing in the AAA space for at least a couple of years. Console RT will likely be much more similar to Metro Exodus/Control's implementation with specific elements being ray traced. Fucking wild how much misinformation is being spread around about this.

christocolus · Apr 21, 2020

shinobi602 said:
Discussion is about what I expected it to be 😄

Lol.

ILikeFeet · Apr 21, 2020

Scarecrowe said:
Didn't directx12 ultimate introduce their own solution?

not a part of DX12U, no. they shown off DirectML, but they haven't shown live games running on it, just footage of a game being upscaled. and that ran on Nvidia gpus (which can use their tensor cores to accelerated DirectML). so there's a lot of unknowns for AMD

Cyclonesweep · Apr 21, 2020

Lee Morris said:
I wouldn't want to be in there marketing department.

It doesn't matter that they haven't shown it. It's 100% guaranteed lower spec machine than Series X. People know this will mean Xbox games are going to have to be nerfed so that it runs on this machine. Unless it's a cloud box.

Games will run worse on the Series S over Series X. Like others have said it could be something simple as a game going

Series X: 4k60, Ray tracing
Series S: 1080p30, no ray tracing

Doesn't at all mean games will run worse on Xbox as a whole.

Firmus_Anguis · Apr 21, 2020

shinobi602 said:
Discussion is about what I expected it to be 😄

I know you confirmed Lockhart's existence a while ago, but any developer impressions you could share? The earlier reports on Lockhart weren't... Great.
Have they had a change of heart?

Prine · Apr 21, 2020

jsnepo said:
Can we assume multiplatform and Xbox exclusive games will be held back? Lowest denominator, etc. bullshit.

No. Lockhart has been factored in to next gen from day one, as such it's architecture and specs would've been benchmarked with Series X, it should be able to keep up without encumbering SX with various ways to to scale.

Scarecrowe · Apr 21, 2020

ILikeFeet said:
not a part of DX12U, no. they shown off DirectML, but they haven't shown live games running on it, just footage of a game being upscaled. and that ran on Nvidia gpus (which can use their tensor cores to accelerated DirectML). so there's a lot of unknowns for AMD

Ok Hmm I'm sure they're cooking up something hopefully

MillionIII · Apr 21, 2020

All of the people talking about TFs but I think it will be more interesting to see if it has a disc drive or not.

Prine · Apr 21, 2020

shinobi602 said:
Discussion is about what I expected it to be 😄

🤣

Cyclonesweep · Apr 21, 2020

Prine said:
No. Lockhart has been factored in to next gen from day one, as such it's architecture and specs would've been benchmarked with Series X, it should be able to keep up without encumbering SX with various ways to to scale.

Yep. It's like people have never seen a PC before.

Taurus · Apr 21, 2020

Lant_War said:
Yup. Microsoft's marketing backfired

What? They haven't even revealed Lockhart so where's the marketing.

scrapple · Apr 21, 2020

that mockup on reddit, gimme gimme but we all know its not gonna be that small... sad face

Godzilla24 · Apr 21, 2020

There are lots of folks that won't even be able to afford lockhart version of next gen Xbox but the cool thing is MS is supporting Xbox One S and X for at least the first year of next gen with no exclusives so that those that want to play these upcoming games are not left out and gives them options to gradually transition into next gen. Its all about options with all these decisions and all the moves MS is making is stellar and firing on all cylinders.

Kingpin722 · Apr 21, 2020

Pryme said:
The key word is 'affordable'. That's what you're missing.

It has to be substantially cheaper than the PS5. $100 cheaper isn't going to justify the software & power difference.

EBomb · Apr 21, 2020

Series S will be a more capable 1080p console than Series X will be at 4K. #Math

arsene_P5 · Apr 21, 2020

Lee Morris said:
I wouldn't want to be in there marketing department.

It doesn't matter that they haven't shown it. It's 100% guaranteed lower spec machine than Series X. People know this will mean Xbox games are going to have to be nerfed so that it runs on this machine. Unless it's a cloud box.

What do you think will be nerfed?

Rabalder. said:
Minecraft RTX is fully path traced and features no traditional lighting which is an incredibly resource heavy solution to lighting. One we simply won't be seeing in the AAA space for at least a couple of years. Console RT will likely be much more similar to Metro Exodus/Control's implementation with specific elements being ray traced. Fucking wild how much misinformation is being spread around about this.

Not expecting path tracing we see in Minecraft recreated in big AAA games this gen. We need an PS6 and the successor to Series X for this.

tapedeck · Apr 21, 2020

Lant_War said:
Yup. Microsoft's marketing backfired

lol

Cyclonesweep · Apr 21, 2020

Godzilla24 said:
There are lots of folks that won't even be able to afford lockhart version of next gen Xbox but the cool thing is MS is supporting Xbox One S and X for at least the first year of next gen with no exclusives so that those that want to play these upcoming games are not left out and gives them options to gradually transition into next gen. Its all about options with all these decisions and all the moves MS is making is stellar and firing on all cylinders.

Microsoft is learning from PC it seems. People have tons of options there, developers try and make games playable on as many levels as systems as possible which helps sales of software tons

Deleted member 224 · Apr 21, 2020

Kingpin722 said:
It has to be substantially cheaper than the PS5. $100 cheaper isn't going to justify the software & power difference.

Ps5 will probably be priced the same as the XSX. Lockhart will be significantly cheaper than both. Which is exactly what the specs suggest.

Lee Morris · Apr 21, 2020

Cyclonesweep said:
Games will run worse on the Series S over Series X. Like others have said it could be something simple as a game going

Series X: 4k60, Ray tracing
Series S: 1080p30, no ray tracing

Doesn't at all mean games will run worse on Xbox as a whole.

I'm not saying they will run worse and I'm not talking about frame rate and pixels. The game will have to designed for a simpler machine from the outset and therefore the design on the game will have to be scaled back

rumbling · Apr 21, 2020

If you guys missed the memo: MS is betting on streaming as a big part of their strategy. And I think the main reason for that is the potential of having us playing "xbox" on our phones/tablets at 1080p. And yes that potential is HUGE compared to 4k streaming to our tvs.

I think "Series S" must exist for this reason. It seams super inefficient to down sample Series X to a phone. Having games running at 1080p for a 1080p stream seams correct.

I do not think "Series S" will launch this year. Neither in server racks or to our homes. I suppose that Xbox One S will handle 1080p (or in reality lower then that) streaming for the first year or so and than be replaced with "Series S" for an official launch of Xcloud. I do not think it will be available for consumers before they can sell them VERY cheap - at earliest a few years from now. But I am just guessing.

ReplacementPelican · Apr 21, 2020

Godzilla24 said:
There are lots of folks that won't even be able to afford lockhart version of next gen Xbox but the cool thing is MS is supporting Xbox One S and X for at least the first year of next gen with no exclusives so that those that want to play these upcoming games are not left out and gives them options to gradually transition into next gen. Its all about options with all these decisions and all the moves MS is making is stellar and firing on all cylinders.

Yeah, I know that some people aren't thrilled but it's a great move by Microsoft. Easing the transition for everyone.

WindowsCentral: Xbox rumor roundup: 'Xbox Series S' Lockhart, new Xbox headset, May event, and more

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