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WindowsCentral: Is the Console War Over For Xbox?
- Thread starter Sillegamer
- Start date
Xbox as a console is dead to me, since it no longer has exclusives. But MS as a third party could be potentially good, if their investments pay off. Xbox as a console can still be very good if MS can actually deliver with its console exclusive games, since there is many who wont ever touch a PC for gaming. But I dont see the next xbox selling more than xbox one, but probably close to what the xbox one sold.
Yes, because Microsoft's approach (and success) isn't predicated on getting the most plastic boxes in your living room...at least when they launch their streaming service. Add in PC and the first couple of years worth of cross-gen first party titles, and they'll be golden.
We need to stop acting as if PlayStation is infallible or something. It's not. The market is always changing. Very soon we're gonna have kids becoming adults that this traditional model doesn't appeal to. The ones raised with Netflix and Apple Music and a lack of the physical. Everything they want at their fingertips all the time. Xbox has a chance a small window to explode the brand globally for the newer generation.
what do you mean "so hard"? the xbox1 sold like 24 million consoles and xbone is at like twice that. i don't know if it's on track to do better or worse or the same as 360 but just because the xbone isn't as successful as the Ps4 doesn't automatically make it a failure
I like how people just accepted that buzzword "service" as a form of development regarding Microsoft. If Apple sells you a iPhone they are not selling just hardware but get you a walled garden (service). Selling closed ecosystems in the form of consoles is the ultimate form of selling services.
It's going to be a very different generation that's for sure.
I think console sales as a unit figure will slowly become irrelevant, much like the physical sales of games with continual increasing % to digital.
MS is obviously moving into streaming to compliment traditional, a users buying games on the 'droid or Apple xcloud app. I think I recall a rumor about an app for the SW. I wouldn't be surprised if they are making a native smart tv app.
I think console sales as a unit figure will slowly become irrelevant, much like the physical sales of games with continual increasing % to digital.
MS is obviously moving into streaming to compliment traditional, a users buying games on the 'droid or Apple xcloud app. I think I recall a rumor about an app for the SW. I wouldn't be surprised if they are making a native smart tv app.
Xbox one won't even be in the same ballpark as the 360 when said and done - maybe a little more than half of its sales ... and will end up being outsold by a factor of at least 2:1 by the closest competition. To add insult to injury, the underpowered Switch will pass it up in just it's third year of sales. That's just an asskicking any way you slice it
Good thing MS gave up on hardware, and went to a services model - their services are the best part of what they actually offer.
Good thing MS gave up on hardware, and went to a services model - their services are the best part of what they actually offer.
Doesn't really matter to me to be honest. I'll buy an Xbox because that's where the majority of my friends play and my gaming PC is where I play AAA 3rd party games. A Playstation won't ever be in my future because none of my friends play on it and I'm not spending $500 on a console I'll use 2-3 times a year for exclusive games I might like.
During the with Wii U dark ages? People have been saying Nintendo will be going third party since 19always.
Europe and Asia just don't give a crap about Xbox, Sony is the dominant console brand there.by miles and miles. Microsoft will always be number two in those regions so they will never be able to beat Sony overall. But with gamepass and if they right their first party output with their new studios they should be just fine, sell tens of millions of consoles and make Bank on digital revenue.
Believe me or not, but on this forum there were at least 2 posters who actually were happy about this :) No idea why, though.
What you're saying is certainly possible, but I don't think console hardware has been much of a barrier of entry to a bulk of otherwise would be console gamers. If anything, console gaming is more appealing than it ever has been in history. Add to that, with the growth of YouTube, social media etc, if anything PlayStation has increased its casual and global appeal as exclusives like TLOU, GOW, Spider-Man, Uncharted etc have become cultural and social media gaming phenoms that pull in insane numbers and interest.
Then there's the limitations of streaming with respect to competitive play for casual games like Fifa and Call of Duty. Will gamers really want to play these games online with the added latency etc offered by streaming?
The plastic boxes really help though. While from our perspective it always looks as though the battle for our money is most important, it's really the fact that they're providing a platform for third parties. So the cut of third party sales on your platform is all important. A physical platform really helps with that.
A cloud platform could potentially help as well, but as far as I know we're still not sure how Microsoft will be selling games through the platform. Or how much of a cut it then provides from 3rd party sales.
At the moment they all do well off that 30% cut from 3rd party sales, not quite sure how that works in the cloud world, but it certainly seems to be a lot smaller. Along with all the extra infrastructure costs associated with cloud gaming, which is very different to having a few online servers for multiplayer gaming.
I guess the real potential growth area is in non-playing subscribers, those who pay monthly yet barely use your services. It may just depend on which platform is best at obtaining that group of less engaged players. So cloud does kind of flip the market on its head in that way. When it comes to hardware that group could simply be costing you money, while with cloud, it's the heavier users that cost you money.
No they didn't. PS3 ended up selling more despite launching a year after the 360 and at a premium price.
Microsoft can have me back when they stop fucking around with everything except quality exclusive games and just make some goddamned quality exclusive games.
Enough Gears, Forza and Halo FFS. Throw some money around and let people create content that I can only get on Xbox. If the next console's strategy is centered around fucking Game Pass then they'll stay in third.
Enough Gears, Forza and Halo FFS. Throw some money around and let people create content that I can only get on Xbox. If the next console's strategy is centered around fucking Game Pass then they'll stay in third.
Whoever nails the cloud gaming as a service model is going to win the foreseeable future 100% guaranteed. If you think Sony is better poised than MS to win that fight then I don't know what to tell you. Console war in terms of units sold is soon to be dead, the metric to watch will be subscription revenue. There is huge untapped potential in this area and everyone knows it. Why else would Google be entering this space?
I've said before and will say again: ERA is super conservative when it comes to games industry forecasting. Whatever is the current status quo is always the consensus prediction for the future around here. Turns out this gen was still won with traditional artillery such as TFLOPs and strong 1st party exclusive output. These will continue to be a factors but hold far less weight.
I've said before and will say again: ERA is super conservative when it comes to games industry forecasting. Whatever is the current status quo is always the consensus prediction for the future around here. Turns out this gen was still won with traditional artillery such as TFLOPs and strong 1st party exclusive output. These will continue to be a factors but hold far less weight.
Microsoft had a chance to put Sony in its rearview mid-way through the 360 gen, but then they decided to try to go after Nintendo's market with the god-awful Kinect and ever since then they've been at the very back of the pack. It's rare to see a company (or division within a large company) crater as hard as MS did at the start of the current generation, but it was a thing to behold for sure. And no, they'll never be on top.
We don't know that. That's the problem, Microsoft isn't revealing if their Xbox business is profitable or not.
That's the "you can't fire me I quit" argument.
The only reason anyone would make that argument is if their console isn't selling well. If MS had won the generation I can guarantee you the PR would most certainly not be "number of consoles sold doesn't matter".
There is this really weird thing of a lot of Xbox fans just gobbling up whatever PR MS/Spencer put out, including utterly ridiculous stuff like this, and then parroting it.
As other people have said, if MS don't care about console sales and they don't matter then why are they making a console at all? Just make your games in PS4/5 in that case - they'll sell better and that's all that matters right?
You're right. The majority of last gen saw Xbox in an eternal second place to Nintendo, whereas Sony dropped to third for the majority of the generation.
PS5 already being announced as backwards compatible with PS4 have already guarantee Sony a huge portion of the current PS4 install base, so Sony already fighting the next gen battle before the console is on sale already giving PS4 owners a reason to stick with them.
In my opinion in order for Xbox to grow they gonna have to convince PS4 owners to buy both them and Sony consoles or find another 100 million console gamers else where.
In my opinion in order for Xbox to grow they gonna have to convince PS4 owners to buy both them and Sony consoles or find another 100 million console gamers else where.
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I don't have a horse in the race. And I don't think I'm parroting Spencer when I point out the change in strategy from the MS camp.
If all they cared about was console sales as the be all, end all metric to quantify success and revenue, then the moves they've recently made are actively sabotaging themselves;-
- 'Play Anywhere' release their exclusives on PC.
- Game Pass for PC
- Release Minecraft on competitors platforms.
- Stop investing in third-party timed launches.
- Invest in xCloud.
What they've stated before is that console sales have a saturation point of around ~300 million at the end of a generation cycle. So in essence, they've given up on the "number of consoles" metric to chase the 2 billion gamers across mobile, PC and consoles.
Consoles are just one part of the diversified portfolio of revenue from the Xbox brand.
As a gamer, i don't care how many consoles are sold, i care about games i like and make me interested in buying / playing them. That's the biggest Microsoft problem for me.
I also think that, following this strategy with ''selling content is more important than selling hw'', Microsoft will release one day their games on PS . I mean, they already do it for Steam, which is their competitor on pc front.
I also think that, following this strategy with ''selling content is more important than selling hw'', Microsoft will release one day their games on PS . I mean, they already do it for Steam, which is their competitor on pc front.
Xbox and its exclusives only will exist for me as an icon on my task bar. Its basically another infinity stone added to the PC gaming gauntlet.
Strength of platform really matters when it comes to developers with limited budgets picking which system to focus on, assuming no platform owner is willing to provide development/marketing assistance.
Trash article. Going off those poll numbers, the Switch should be selling terribly which obviously isn't the case.
I cant even get into a gears 5 tech test game. A lot of people got gampess ultimate and play Xbox I guess (granted, it was $1~
disagree
disagree
Maybe its true in the case of the traditional "My console is better than yours" bullshit that is still in full effect but just like NIntendo, MS are going their own direction with Game Pass, Xcloud, Azure etc. The days of waving around sales numbers as the only metric that matters is old and boring. Solid hardware, games and services are the way forward.
Wii doesn't count what I mean is "core console" COD/FIFA/GTA/Cyberpunk/etc etc etc. Sony and MS. Nintendo is to some extent outside that. I dont think even MS/Sony consider Nintendo direct competition anymore. MS put cuphead on Switch...
And yeah, PS4 was 1.8 TF and Xbox was 1.2. That's about 50%.
Even if PS5 is more powerful this time around I STRONGLY doubt it will be by 50%. So if it's 20 or 30 (IMO it will be less powerful, but lets say it's 20% more) Xbox will be in a much better position.
Matrick fubared Xbox at the start of last gen badly right? Kinect, 499...weak...Xbox wont get off to that horrible a start again.
I think if the console war was "over" third parties will stop putting games on Xbox. Is that even close to happening? And I'm not talking about certain niche Japanese style titles, I mean Ubi/Acti/EA/take 2
But yeah, every gen is a fresh start. Some people might not admit that. I agree Sony has an incumbent advantage in Europe but 360 showed it's not insurmountable. Europe outside of UK is not as large a market as people act.
I dont like playing on a mouse and k/b hunched over. To each his own...
I'm also historically into Halo and Gears. I'm not sure are those day and date on PC these days? I dont know.
Anyways PC is Microsoft Windows typically. This is why MS isn't mad at you. And why they put their exclusives on PC. It behooves them to keep a relative Windows monopoly and gaming helps that a lot.
Nobody's debating they have changed tactics. But the reason they have changed tactics isn't because "console sales don't matter any more". It's because they lost in console sales and that is the only option available to them to gain traction for the brand.
It isn't about having a horse in a race, it's about critically thinking about the things you're told from corporations with agendas and spin rather than swallowing those things hook, line and sinker without a second thought and then parroting them.
If sales were reversed and Xbox One had sold ~100 million while PS4 sold 40-50 million MS would not be saying "console sales don't matter". It's like when someone gets dumped and then they claimed they never liked that person in the first place, it's nothing more than saving face. MS would kill to be in the position Sony are, but they aren't, so they have to pretend they are happy with selling less than half of the PS4 because "console sales don't matter" (aka "I never liked her anyway").
I mean MS even released an advertisement with "best selling console in America*" when the Xbox One S outsold the PS4 for a whopping 3 months in one territory. So apparently console sales don't matter but MS were so desperate to show that their console sales were good, and so proud of beating the PS4 for a mere 3 months in one territory, that they released a very, very misleading advertisement. It's just like the "exclusives are bad for consumers" mantra when Xbox had a poor output, only to then go and buy up a load of 3rd party developers so their games will no longer be available on Playstation platforms.
This stuff is pure spin to try and distract from the deficiencies of the brand, and spin that turns on a dime if the situation is ever reversed. So I'm sure when all those developers who would have released their games on Playstation are releasing their Xbox exclusives the messaging will be the opposite of "exclusives are bad for consumers". Equally if Xbox ever beats PS in console sales all of a sudden I'm sure console sales will matter again as we have seen with the borderline misleading S advertisements.
Anyone who believes "console sales don't matter" is either incredibly naive or incredibly biased. It's much more the case that MS would want you to believe that console sales don't matter while they are losing in console sales, not that they really don't matter.
The quote you chose leads in the false direction. The whole article is all around the small "or is it" part at the end. The real summary of this article is: "don't read too much into PS4's 100mn+ sales".
And no, unlike any other generation, this new generation is NOT a full reset. One could'nt be more wrong with such an assessment. Millions of PS+ and XBOX Live subscribers and even more users with their digital libraries will be able to access all those titles on their shiny new console. This is a major switching barrier which is why it is a no-brainer to assume that XBOX is fighting an uphill battle.
I believe this is simply false. I believe in core gaming (this board) the most important thing is power and there's not even a close second is the crazy thing.
Go look in the next gen RDNA thread, people want so bad for PS5 to beat next Xbox (or a few people vice versa). Why do people want that so bad if it's not important? How about every console has a bunch of "secret sauce". Some wanted so bad to not admit Xbox was less powerful than PS4. Some wanted so bad that PS4 Pro wouldn't be less than X1X (remember FP16 secret sauce?"). People REALLY wanted a Switch Pro on here. People REALLY wanted the Wii U to be more than it was in technical terms.
It matters to core gamers. A lot.
I forever remember something Jaffe said. He said something like I wish graphics or machines would reach a level where nobody cared so we didn't have to dedicate 70% of our production time to pushing graphics envelopes and we could just focus on gameplay.
I though to myself, but dont you get it dude, you dedicate 70% of your team's time to that because that's what's important to people.
X1X I was wrong about, it did worse than I expected. But there is a lot of positivity around Xbox brand and I think it plays a huge part. It's really something you can be proud of owning. Is there a product with a higher "Q rating" than X1X? Q rating is used for beloved celebs, example, Keanu Reeves has a really high Qrating right now LOL. X1X is almost universally liked and seen as a good product.
How bad straights would Xbox brand be in without X1X? I think it'd be pretty bad. The 1.2 TF base machine trying to keep up in 2019 would have been absolutely brutal. At least now Xbox fans have the option to upgrade to the best console experience so it's tougher to criticize.
And oh yeah if you say power doesn't matter again, how much was Xbox mocked for weak in the beginning? I mean every thread about a 720P Xbox One game was many many pages. Every new multiplat that was inevitably deficient on Xbox got it's DF thread where Xbox was raked over the coals. Another comment I remember was it came out that one of the games on Halo MCC wasn't 1080P or something like that, and I just remember somebody commenting like "Cant even do 1080P on last gen game, Xbone is the worst". It was brutal. Dont say it doesn't matter. Any consumer faced with "these two machines are the same price but one plays games in a higher resolution etc" made the PS4 an absolute no brainer.
I think the thing is X1X cant take advantage of it's power, because it just has to play the same games gussied up. The other thing is it's 499. I wonder sometimes if the story would be different if MS went for a more mass market price for X, maybe 8GB RAM, some more noise and a matte finish (more like PS4 Pro), and 399. But I still think the product is a success.
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Agreed. If MS does somehow take the lead next gen you can bet they will be shouting their numbers sold from the rooftops and suddenly the numbers will matter again.
Over, as in, trying to beat Sony in console sales worldwide? I think so yes. I don't think that is a realistic target anymore.
Of course, there are other measures of success. Trying to convert as many users to GamePass as possible seems to be the current goal.
Of course, there are other measures of success. Trying to convert as many users to GamePass as possible seems to be the current goal.
User Warned: Antagonizing another user
I understand the logic behind the article but for it to be posted by someone with a ps avatar is funny, i bet the op was touching himself while posting this.
Well for me it is, but havent bothered with that shit since like PS1. I will buy a PS5 next year simply because I'm fully invested in the ecosystem after PS4 (digital / free games) and it's where all my mates play. I'm just too busy these days to have multiple systems so unlikely to get an Xbox, plus this gen at least there has been no games compelling me to do so.
Also taking a wait and see approach to streaming, I mean if it is actually decent & MS first party is appealing I'd sub for a few months towards the end of next gen to play their stuff. I'm still not convinced the latency will be low enough for gaming, but we shall see.
Whatever happens next gen I'm sure all companies involved will make obscene amounts of money and shareholders will be happy. As a gamer / consumer I couldn't care less about that and only care about compelling content and playing with my friends.
Also taking a wait and see approach to streaming, I mean if it is actually decent & MS first party is appealing I'd sub for a few months towards the end of next gen to play their stuff. I'm still not convinced the latency will be low enough for gaming, but we shall see.
Whatever happens next gen I'm sure all companies involved will make obscene amounts of money and shareholders will be happy. As a gamer / consumer I couldn't care less about that and only care about compelling content and playing with my friends.
People saying console sales don't matter, are kidding themselves.
What you think MS rather wants, sell you 3 subs or only 2.
Xbox Live is free money for Microsoft, outside of maybe licensing a few games from third party for Gold.
Gamepass with it having deals every month since launch, its almost certainly losing tons of money right now just on licensing fees alone.
Xcloud will also be a lot more expensive to keep running then gold with server farms etc.
So you think they wouldn't rather sell you a Scarlett(will probably break even on launch day)+30% cut of every third party game sold on it+XBL+accessories and maybe xcloud/gamepass.
Or only Gamepass and xcloud where they are gonna pay a ton of money on licensing fees.
Hell i would say the only reason Microsoft is even still in the console business, is so they can cash in XBLG subs every month.
What you think MS rather wants, sell you 3 subs or only 2.
Xbox Live is free money for Microsoft, outside of maybe licensing a few games from third party for Gold.
Gamepass with it having deals every month since launch, its almost certainly losing tons of money right now just on licensing fees alone.
Xcloud will also be a lot more expensive to keep running then gold with server farms etc.
So you think they wouldn't rather sell you a Scarlett(will probably break even on launch day)+30% cut of every third party game sold on it+XBL+accessories and maybe xcloud/gamepass.
Or only Gamepass and xcloud where they are gonna pay a ton of money on licensing fees.
Hell i would say the only reason Microsoft is even still in the console business, is so they can cash in XBLG subs every month.
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