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Jun 22, 2018
2,154
But what about Shadowrun? But what about Crimson Skies? Or Mechwarrior? Or Fable? Or or or

They just have too many solid properties and not enough studios even though they are the largest first party publisher now by studio count it's just not enough to work on the games they have and work on new content at the same time. We're at the point in time where publishers are going to be more like movie studios where good ideas may only come out once and be forever cemented in history.
What do you mean it's not enough to work on the games they have and work on new content at the same time?

Are you suggesting they should never make a sequel to anything? I genuinely don't follow your point.

They obviously can't make every single possible game, but they should work on both new IPs and sequels as makes sense.
 

samred

Amico fun conversationalist
Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,586
Seattle, WA
The intro mentions Halo Wars... but Halo Wars 2 came out and tanked. And in the past year, we've seen two other "smaller series" sequels launch out of Microsoft Studios—State of Decay 2, Crackdown 3—and they both tanked.

Soo.... what are we doing here?
 

kung-fu-owl

Alt account
Banned
Jul 27, 2019
513
Only problem with this is, xbox gamers didn't buy the originals when they came out. This why MS has not green lit any sequels. You cant make a sequel to something if the first one sold poorly.

I don't think it's anywhere near as cut and dry as you appear to suggest. I find this narrative of Xbox gamers only buying particular genres of games rather frustrating and narrow-minded. It frankly sucks to see it persist in 2019.

Xbox gamers buy lots of games. Of all kinds of genres.

It's actually quite rare for a Microsoft first party game to bomb.

It's unfortunately not all that rare for them to fail to meet their high expectations and then shuffle off into obscurity because Microsoft has had this attitude of "bona fide hit or die" since the days of the original Xbox.

That attitude was probably at its worst during 360 era when MS had massive hits in Halo, Forza, Gears and Fable, which in turn inflated their expectations of all first party games across the board. Even games titles like Kameo and Perfect Dark Zero that sold really well still didn't get sequels because their success paled in comparison to that off Microsoft's heaviest hitters.

In the case of Quantum Break, I think the story there is that they had a 10 year relationship with Remedy that resulted in only 2 games to mild success and only slightly above average critical reception for one. I don't think working relationship was worth continuing investment for Microsoft.

Sunset Overdrive had a huge marketing campaign and the game wasn't a smash hit so Microsoft didn't want to or were perhaps dragging their feet in funding a sequel, during which time Sony got Insomniac on board for Spider-Man. There's no Sunset Overdrive 2 without Insomniac, so even if Microsoft did decide to fund it after all, it was likely too late.

Lastly, in regards to ReCore, MS believe in that IP. This coming from Shannon Loftis who was Studio Head at Microsoft Global Publishing at the time (their second party studio basically)
Announcing ReCore: Definitive Edition was a little bit of a signal to people that got into the world of Far Eden and fell in love with these characters that we believe that that's an IP with a lot of legs.

I would assume the trouble with ReCore is that Armature moved on to new projects shortly after the game first came out (including their work on Fortnite, which I imagine brought them tons of money) and Comcept was acquired by Level-5, leaving no other feasible studio to work on it. I don't think a ReCore 2 is a definitive no, I think that's an IP they'll bring back if they can find the right team for it.

To reiterate and draw the bottom line: Xbox gamers buy lots of games of all kinds of genres. It's not a matter of genres not having an appeal, it's a matter of Microsoft's standards and definitions of success. Hopefully now, going into the future, through Game Pass and PC releases (and occasionally Switch), Microsoft will return to some of these properties that didn't meet their expectations in the past as well continue to fund new IP.
 

Gartooth

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,440
Every publisher has dead IP but the issue is that Xbox has fewer core IP than most. Nintendo as a counterpoint has over 10 IP that I'd argue are core franchises and receive new games every generation compared to Xbox's 4.

The biggest reactions on social media about an Xbox IP at E3 was that one of their most beloved dead IP was being revived and put into Smash. This comes after a decade of fans begging them to bring back Banjo-Kazooie. (Not to mention other Rare IP like Perfect Dark.)
 

OneBadMutha

Member
Nov 2, 2017
6,059
Microsoft wasn't making many sequels or new IP before 2018. Now that they've got studios with autonomy, it's changed. I still don't see them chasing old partners though. Those partners and games were from a different strategy. Outside of Killer Instinct, I'm guessing the rest of the IPs lay dormant until a studio makes a compelling pitch for them.
 

DopeyFish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,796
What do you mean it's not enough to work on the games they have and work on new content at the same time?

Are you suggesting they should never make a sequel to anything? I genuinely don't follow your point.

They obviously can't make every single possible game, but they should work on both new IPs and sequels as makes sense.

they have too many properties that no matter what people are going to be disappointed that their big franchise isn't coming back

people can't forget that even though the studio count is growing, eventually it's going to plateau... but the amount of franchises they make will keep growing.
 

StrayDog

Avenger
Jul 14, 2018
2,614
MS is the master of sequels.... of Forza, Gears and Halo. The author just want sequels of some franchises.
 
Jun 22, 2018
2,154
they have too many properties that no matter what people are going to be disappointed that their big franchise isn't coming back

people can't forget that even though the studio count is growing, eventually it's going to plateau... but the amount of franchises they make will keep growing.
As I said, of course they can't make every possible game people could want.

The point is that both the new IP and old IP this gen have seen very few sequels. Far fewer than normal. This is what has caused a higher than normal amount of sequel begging.
 

Deleted member 224

Oct 25, 2017
5,629
A lot of the new franchises from Microsoft this generation have been middling at best. Sequels to games like Ryse or Recore aren't really needed. But, one of Microsoft's biggest mistakes this generation was letting Fable disappear at a time when open world action rpgs are incredibly popular in the AAA space.

Other than Fable, Microsoft needs to bring back Banjo Kazooie even if it's just a modern remake of the original 2 games.
 

KORNdog

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
8,001
This has honestly been true since about mid way through the previous gen, where they just seemed to take this "if it doesn't sell like gears of war or halo, we're not interested in supporting it" approach to development. Games that Sony cultivated into big franchises simply wouldn't have been given that opportunity to grow if they were in Xbox. They'd have been given one shot and no second chances. The amount of IP's MS own or are associated with that laid a really solid foundation for a sequel and yet weren't given the chance to have one is kind of insane when you look back at their library.

Some games are like uncharted. They may not start with the strongest sales in the world. But that doesn't make them worthless. It took one more game and one extra chance and look what we got from it. MS need to give more studios that chance to make better sequels.
 

MissCauthon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,555
They need to stop fucking around and actually do something with the Perfect Dark IP. Its pretty much the only franchise from them i give a fuck about

You pretty much answered yourself there. The only franchise you give a fuck about.
What people don't get is they can't make a sequel to something THAT WON'T SELL, maybe you and a few thousand people really are vocal about it but in the end most games like the one you described are ... not that popular. You might say hell no it is!!! but that's just you being vocal about it.
I can totally understand why they don't make these games. Like that new Battletoad game.
I love that franchise but i'm dead honest when I say that I HIGHLY doubt that game will bring a truckload of money like most of these companies want.

Just because a few loud fans, parade and god'ify a game doesn't mean it will sell enough to warrant them even wasting money to create said game.

I'm sure my comment will no go well with allot of folk here but that is just the truth.
 

Kilgore

Member
Feb 5, 2018
3,538
oh you xbots want Microsoft pay por sequels?

tenor.gif


Really I find irritating that a lot of people ask for sequels pretending they don't know the first game sold poorly.
 

Dimple

Member
Jan 10, 2018
8,564
The intro mentions Halo Wars... but Halo Wars 2 came out and tanked. And in the past year, we've seen two other "smaller series" sequels launch out of Microsoft Studios—State of Decay 2, Crackdown 3—and they both tanked.

Soo.... what are we doing here?

In what universe did State of Decay 2 tank?
 

Kilgore

Member
Feb 5, 2018
3,538
I bought Sunset Overdrive and Quantum Break. Why shouldn't I be allowed to ask for / hope for sequels to those games?
You can ask but you have to be aware that the game didn't sold well. Not making a sequel of a game that barely sold a million, or even less is not some oustrangeous decision of a crazy Microsoft burying all their promising ip.
 

Fiery Phoenix

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,838
Control might as well be a soft Quantum Break sequel. I wouldn't be surprised if they were set in the same universe.

But yes, this article is spot-on.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,930
the Netherlands
It's understandable that some people want sequels to these games, but at the end of the day every publisher with a big catalogue of IP has this issue (I'm sure you can make a whole list of Sony and Nintendo IP people want more games of as well) and the main issue is that the games apparently haven't done good enough for Microsoft to greenlight a sequel. Had games like Quantum Break and Sunset Overdrive sold 5mil+ copies, or if a game like Killer Instinct brought in $30mil a year I'm sure those would have gotten sequels by now or would have them in development.
 

JustinH

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,398
Lost Odyssey & Blue Dragon :(
I'd love for either of these, both of these, whatever! I don't think it's in the cards because it sounded like the relationship between Mistwalker and Microsoft was strained during the development of Lost Odyssey (going from memory from the "Oral History of FF7 article" on Polygon).

I never did try those DS Blue Dragon games, though.
 

Bugalugs214

Banned
Nov 26, 2017
1,686
Nah, the article seems to be all over the place... Halo wars 2 and KI were still being supported up till recently. I'm sure they are working on a new KI but they can't announce it this early.

They are bringing Flight sim back, and I'm sure they have other surprises.

People need more patience these games are taking longer and longer to make and it's not best to always announce them years out.
 

Abu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,019
😏
where's my sunset overdrive sequel

cool it with the forzas and halos phil, y'all got like 10 sequels for each one 😒
 
Jun 22, 2018
2,154
You can ask but you have to be aware that the game didn't sold well. Not making a sequel of a game that barely sold a million, or even less is not some oustrangeous decision of a crazy Microsoft burying all their promising ip.
I recognize they didn't sell amazingly well and I'm not saying it's an outrageous decision by Microsoft to not make sequels.

I'm still going to keep asking for them and there's nothing wrong with that.
 

Gabbo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,567
But what about Shadowrun? But what about Crimson Skies? Or Mechwarrior? Or Fable? Or or or

They just have too many solid properties and not enough studios even though they are the largest first party publisher now by studio count it's just not enough to work on the games they have and work on new content at the same time. We're at the point in time where publishers are going to be more like movie studios where good ideas may only come out once and be forever cemented in history.
Hopefully once Harebrained Schemes moves on from Battletech (or start up a second team), they can pick up Crimson Skies. As I never owned an Xbox or a 360, High Road to Revenge is a sequel I never got to play to the original Zipper Interactive games. Weisman, get on that!
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Most of the games people are listing that they want sequels for neither reviewed or sold particularly well. If it's a game or IP that has a tonne of potential, sure, give it another stab, but otherwise a new IP might offer something far better. Games like Crackdown never needed a sequel imo, whereas something like Banjo Kazooie has a lot more potential and is a far more revered franchise.
 

mogster7777

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,980
I'd love for either of these, both of these, whatever! I don't think it's in the cards because it sounded like the relationship between Mistwalker and Microsoft was strained during the development of Lost Odyssey (going from memory from the "Oral History of FF7 article" on Polygon).

I never did try those DS Blue Dragon games, though.
It would be nice for sequels but truth is they won't sell. Gaming enthusiast forum vs the Fortnite crowd.
 

kung-fu-owl

Alt account
Banned
Jul 27, 2019
513
It would be nice for sequels but truth is they won't sell. Gaming enthusiast forum vs the Fortnite crowd.

Lost Odyssey 2 and Blue Dragon 2 are easy sells in this day and age.

Easy.

Across Xbox, Game Pass and steam? No way those games are not viable.

Hell, Blue Dragon doesn't have even need to be AAA.
 
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iareharSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,940
Lost Odyssey 2 and Blue Dragon are easy sells in this day and age.

Easy.

Across Xbox, Game Pass and steam? No way those games are not viable.

Hell, Blue Dragon doesn't have even need to be AAA.

Blue Dragon is probably the least likely to be revived. While it only had one game on the 360, it had two DS sequels, a manga, and an anime - and as much as they tried - it just wouldn't catch on.
 

Segafreak

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,756
-Scalebound cancelled
-Doesn't give a shit about Rare's classic IPs or beloved ogXbox games
-Lost Odyssey 2 nowhere to be seen
-Sunset Overdrive which is one of the best games this gen doesn't get a sequel

Xbox used to have an amazing variety and quantity back in the ogXbox/early 360 days. Ever since Kinect things have gone downhill year after year. Output of games dropped, non-Forza titles mostly have mediocre scores. Still over-reliance on Halo/Forza/Gears.
 
Dec 15, 2017
1,590
Every platform begs for something, Sony for bc, Nintendo for decent hw and good prices/online...

Tbh I can't blame Ms... While I really liked those games, they were slammed by the press at release.

I would like a more intensive gaas approach with Forza Motorsport next gen so they can keep adding cars and tracks down the line. A focus on pre 2005 European and Japanese cars and I'll be hooked for years.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
Watertown, NY
The intro mentions Halo Wars... but Halo Wars 2 came out and tanked. And in the past year, we've seen two other "smaller series" sequels launch out of Microsoft Studios—State of Decay 2, Crackdown 3—and they both tanked.

Soo.... what are we doing here?

I would argue Halo as a brand has been milked a shit ton, and RTS games especially on console are very niche. State of decay 2 was a glitch fest, and crackdown 3 was a trainwreck in both it's final product, and it's execution.

Quality control has been the biggest issue. Even their "remaster" of voodoo vince was done by like 1 guy instead of having a budget behind it like all the ones sony has put up.

Their issue has been quality, and also how they market these games.
 

kung-fu-owl

Alt account
Banned
Jul 27, 2019
513
Blue Dragon is probably the least likely to be revived. While it only had one game on the 360, it had two DS sequels, a manga, and an anime - and as much as they tried - it just wouldn't catch on.

I think that makes it the most likely to be revived.

It didn't live on in sequels and transmedia because Microsoft were so desperate to push it.

It happened because there was opportunity for it.

Blue Dragon is, in my view, a stronger IP than Lost Odyssey, despite my thinking LO is the better game.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
Watertown, NY
Y'all really can't accept that no one wants to make em huh?

Why has it worked for Sony and Nintendo? Bringing back old games? I believe it's because of how XBox has handled their library throughout the gens and how they have trained their customers to expect and mostly invest their time into halo/gears/forza. And I don't mean on purpose. But their focus, PR and ad money definitely goes towards those titles.

Seeing battletoads this past year on the big stage was a big win in my eyes. But also I feel xbox is known more for games like perfect dark 0 which a sequel would make people fist pump in a E3 audience. So wouldn't a new Killer Instinct, or OG xbox game. IMAGINE if Ninja theory went back and made Kung Fu Chaos sequel. PEOPLE WOULD lose their shit.
 

Rogue Kiwi

Chicken Chaser
Banned
May 5, 2019
725
I'll never forgive MS for not giving us an Alan Wake sequel. As long as that doesn't exist they are doing a poor job in my eyes.
 

RedStep

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,651
And in the past year, we've seen two other "smaller series" sequels launch out of Microsoft Studios—State of Decay 2, Crackdown 3—and they both tanked.

Can you explain this one? The original was an XBLA game that broke out pretty nicely. The second was on Game Pass and still hit #1 on the NPD revenue chart at $30 (and doubled the sales of the original in its first month). You must have a very interesting definition of "tanked".
 

Raonak

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,170
MS does have a real problem with it in general. They don't make sequels unless the game is really successful.... but when they do, they just milk it to death.
How did they not instantly give insomniac a bag of money to make Sunset 2???

I get it didn't sell amazing, but the word of mouth around that game was fantastic. game franchises usually hit their stride in the 2nd game as the dev team has figured out what works and what doesn't, and sunset was a game that could've easily become a core franchise if MS supported it.

Instead they keep making sequels for games that should be taking a breather.
I find it mindboggling that MS hasn't managed to break out of the "Halo, Gears, Forza" mindset.


Like if ND was a MS studio, uncharted it would've probably not gotten a sequel (iirc, U1 didn't sell amazing), but if it did and U2 was successful, ND would've been forever chained to the uncharted franchise and there would be no TLOU.

It seems like MS will change their approach next gen. the new studios are a promising start.
 
Last edited:

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Great article, fully agree with everything. More frustratingly, as a fan of Xbox IPs, is the managements tone-deaf response when it comes to games that are well below standard, like CD3. It's usually along the lines of "It sold as expected" and "well, we thought it was good despite its reception", that's not good enough. Fortunately they to have "got" it, and I'm hopeful with Booty being brought in well see greater focus on increasing quality, so let's see.

Fable by PG is a dream come true too, so theres that.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
Watertown, NY
The people who created those IP at MS don't want make them again


It's gonna bomb.

I don't believe that. No one that created any of the originals for SOny made Shadow of Colossus, or Medievil. Same goes for Activision who had a skylanders developer make Spyro trilogy and crash trilogy.

Why not get Blue point to remake something for them? Who says Rare has to work on Perfect dark? There are a lot of hungry developers who love those titles that would love to work on them or create something new within those franchises.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,583
I played Conker for the first time a few days ago. I got really confused with the warning "it may be offensive" at the beggining, as I was expecting a Mario-like. Then it started with a hangover lol

I would love a new Conker, it's a unique IP. They could ditch the alcohol/cigar jokes and play with the industry itself.

I know it's not happening.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,620
Watertown, NY
Can you explain this one? The original was an XBLA game that broke out pretty nicely. The second was on Game Pass and still hit #1 on the NPD revenue chart at $30 (and doubled the sales of the original in its first month). You must have a very interesting definition of "tanked".

Where are you getting your info for Crackdown 3 doing well? It tanked like fuck in UK charts. It sold like shit from what NPD showed.