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Win in Game, Lose in Cutscene; Best (worst?) examples?

BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,926
We all know its a common trope in video games where the player can be an absolute beast when it comes to gameplay, but suddenly in the cutscenes your character becomes a feebled, wimp; often this happens during boss fights. The best games that use the trope find some way to have the player lose without diminishing their victory, the worst has enemies going "pretty good, kid" despite the fact that you absolutely wiped the floor with them.

So, what are some of the best and worse examples of this trope?

I'll start:

Fallen Order does this a few times especially when it comes to The Second Sister, I remember laughing when it happens.



Also Xenoblade:

 
Messofanego

Messofanego

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Oct 25, 2017
26,070
UK
I see this as another example of ludonarrative dissonance. The devs want to establish the hero's journey plotline and increase the stakes by having enemies that are stronger so hero is not OP all the time and there are dips in the plot, so sometimes it's represented as cutscenes but the gameplay challenge is not equivalent. It's something for devs to keep in mind that the storytelling is matched with the mechanics and design.
 
Conkerkid11

Conkerkid11

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,941
Pissed me off in Horizon: Zero Dawn basically right at the start at the end of the trial thing

So many people die for no good reason, and then you literally watch a man spawn behind you in a cutscene.

 
Hotbug

Hotbug

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Dec 3, 2020
1,495
FFXIV would like to know if it has permission to do this to you multiple times in order to show you how scary the expansion baddie is.
 
Like the hat?

Like the hat?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,550
Every time i battle in yakuza like a dragon i feel overpowered but then in the cutscene everyone is panting and out of breath

i chalk it up to them all being in their 40s
 

Lightus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,135
Kai Leng in Mass Effect 3. Was so frustrating because the devs never really even sold the audience on him being strong. They were just like "he's super strong trust us" and left it at that. Especially annoying since it resulted in the death of a beloved character.

A lot of the boss fights in Jedi Fallen Order. "You can't defeat me padawan!" *Loses* "and now I will leave unscathed because I'm so powerful!"
 
Richter1887

Richter1887

Member
Oct 27, 2017
39,143
Best.
tenor.gif
 
s y

s y

Member
Nov 8, 2017
10,421
BossAttack said:
Yep, except this is an example of it done right as it acknowledges the player's victory but then you lose through unexpected trickery.
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An even better example would be beating the boss in the prologue of devil may cry 5.

Game acknowledges the players victory but you don't get to play the rest of the game 😔
 
Morrigan

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
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Oct 24, 2017
34,293
Trails of Cold Steel doesn't just use this trope. It spams it the entire time to parody levels. It's absolutely insufferable. Those writers are hacks.
 
Richter1887

Richter1887

Member
Oct 27, 2017
39,143
Akainu said:
Does it count if it's a completely different enemy?
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Maybe not if you put it like that.

The way I meant is that you kill the demon then go on only for the game to tell you NO and you can't do anything about it.

Other games usually let you progress anyway but not Demon's Souls at that time.
 
Pasokon Deacon

Pasokon Deacon

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Oct 25, 2017
1,686
Devil Halton's Trap
Ovvv said:
Trails: the series
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It didn't used to be this bad, either. You'd have some of this early on in Trails SC, for instance, before winning the big important fights later, fair and square. Crossbell games are also pretty good about letting you just own your wins up and until you're fighting series-end mega bosses. It's with Cold Steel that you get the increasingly patronizing upsets like these, particularly in Cold Steel II. Like, there simply have to be more elegant ways of showing Class VII's inexperience than constantly making you fight just to lose. It's not trying to be some kind of Spec Ops: The Line inspired experience meant to make you think "why even play?", so...
 
Rhaknar

Rhaknar

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Oct 26, 2017
42,388
I hate this trope but having JUST played that bit of Fallen Order earlier, the fight doesnt even finish, it stops midway and the cutscene happens so it's not a good example.
 
Axumite

Axumite

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Nov 19, 2017
191
Mark It Zero! said:
First Dante vs Vergil fight in DMC3.
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I would argue that they should have made it unwinnable like the first Jet Stream Sam boss fight in Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, but DMC 3 is perfect as it is. And speaking of Rising
I hated that the Jet Stream Sam DLC ended with you fighting Senator Armstrong in an amazing boss battle, just to then get immediately defeated because Sam took the wrong approach to dealing with Armstrong's nanomachine bullshit.
 
OP
OP
BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,926
Rhaknar said:
I hate this trope but having JUST played that bit of Fallen Order earlier, the fight doesnt even finish, it stops midway and the cutscene happens so it's not a good example.
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Yeah, but it only stops because you're winning then the boss is suddenly like, "nope, I win. Stop the fight."
 
shadowman16

shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,781
Worst for me is undoubtedly that damn Majima Anywhere Komaki training fight in RGG Kiwami. Majima has a gigantic health bar and your locked to using the (currently useless) DoD fighting style. But you can beat him, with enough healing items. To which Komaki remarks something like "I never expected you to win, I'd have taught you the move either way" which drove me mad... yet somehow not mad enough as I forgot all about this when it came to replaying the game a couple of years later and made the exact same damn mistake.
 
VirtuaModel

VirtuaModel

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,711
Kai Leng in Mass Effect 3 is what first came to mind. I hated it and they made my character look incompetent.
 

Deleted member 33533

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Nov 17, 2017
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I always liked the fact that in the first Kingdom Hearts, you are supposed to lose to Leon but if you play smart, you can actually beat him. I also like that the cutscene after is different depending if you win or not. What I don't like is that in the cutscene where you beat him, Sora just kind of... passes out? Like he exerted himself too much or something.

In the same game, Sora does actually beat Cloud in the cutscene afterwards (and this is another fight where you're "supposed" to lose.) So they do it right here.
 
SofNascimento

SofNascimento

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Oct 28, 2017
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I suspected Kai Leng would be mentioned a few times in thread and it seems that's happening, but I should say that the entirity of Priority: Thessia was a low point in ME3, it was meant to be this tragic defeat and the game doesn't even begin to sell it. Kai Leng was only a particular bad part in that mission.
 
The Gold Hawk

The Gold Hawk

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Jan 30, 2019
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Every Uncharted game
Both Last of Us games.

Wipe out the 6 million bandits/militia/pedo cannibals/mullet militia/sad angry people and then go through a door/ squeeze through a gap/ turn a corner and get knocked out and kidnapped because the protagonist has no peripheral vision.

Like, in the Naughty Dog universes I could take over the world with like six guys. Just standing behind and off to the side of someone and waiting for them to pass through somewhere
 
eso76

eso76

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Dec 8, 2017
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s y said:
An even better example would be beating the boss in the prologue of devil may cry 5.

Game acknowledges the players victory but you don't get to play the rest of the game 😔
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Yeah I find this very interesting, I'm sure there are other examples of fights you are canonically expected to lose but can actually win, besides DMC 5, but can't think of any right now.
 

Deleted member 33533

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Nov 17, 2017
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Mifec said:
Literally ALL of XC2 lmao.
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It's funny because Xenoblade 1 was actually pretty consistent about not doing this. It regularly will have the fight end before you deplete their health bar if you aren't supposed to beat them in the story yet. Usually the boss will pull out a move that knocks everyone over before transitioning into the cutscene of you losing so it's more consistent.
 
Weiss

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Mifec

Mifec

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SuperiorTrashTalk said:
It's funny because Xenoblade 1 was actually pretty consistent about not doing this. It regularly will have the fight end before you deplete their health bar if you aren't supposed to beat them in the story yet. Usually the boss will pull out a move that knocks everyone over before transitioning into the cutscene of you losing so it's more consistent.
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Xenoblade 1 is also a good game. XC2 insults me by existing.
 
Sirhc

Sirhc

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Conkerkid11 said:
Pissed me off in Horizon: Zero Dawn basically right at the start at the end of the trial thing

So many people die for no good reason, and then you literally watch a man spawn behind you in a cutscene.

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Holy shit lmao, didn't play the dlc but that is hilariously bad, I thought you were exaggerating but you literally watch the game spawn him in behind you rofl.
 
Noppie

Noppie

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Oct 27, 2017
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Any cinematic shooter.

Gameplay: HAHA GUN GO BRRRRRR DIE YOU DOZENS OF FOES

Cutscene: Oh no, this man is POINTING A PISTOL AT ME, BETTER NOT DO ANYTHING BUT GIVE HIM WHAT HE WANTS
 
RXM027

RXM027

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Dec 18, 2020
1,017
Pokémon Mystery Dungeon Explorers has a pretty bad example. The fight against Grovyle is (at least I think) supposed to be unwinnable, as you progress regardless if you win or lose. Problem is, the fight is rather easy, so it just looks stupid when he somehow knocks you out in one swipe even after getting pummeled. It also sticks out because AFAIK it's the only fight in the entire PMD series that you can actually lose and still have the plot progress.
 
Diogo Arez

Diogo Arez

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Oct 20, 2020
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I don't mind unbeatable bosses themselves, but I hate games that make me go through the entire fight for nothing, at least Xenoblade ended the fight after a few seconds or certain damage thresholds but there are games especially some Turn Based Games that insist on making me fight an enemy all the way to then make my character die in a cutscene out of nowhere
 
Voyevoda

Voyevoda

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Nov 1, 2017
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My favourite example is from Yakuza Like a Dragon.

It's a massive spoiler for the endgame.

You beat Kiryu but he was actually holding back and knocks Ichi out with a punch so strong that Ichi imagines/dreams of slaying a dragon clad in armour, with a sword and shield, piercing the dragon in the heart only to wake up singing the Dragon Quest level-up jingle.

That was amazing and I'm not mad AT ALL that I lost in the cutscene. 😂😂😂
 
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