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Will the next-gen leap be as bad for HDTV owners as it was for SDTV owners with PS3/360?

Empyrean Cocytus

Empyrean Cocytus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,721
Upstate NY
Something I was thinking about earlier today is how PS5 and Xbox Series X seem to be built with future-proofing in mind, with both devices rendering in 4k natively, and possibly being bumped up to 8k support in the future. With graphics and visuals being seen as all-important once again, it brings me back to 2005 when Sony and MS began their first all-out arms race against one another, with both devices pushing for 720p and 1080p resolution, and in response, left SD owners in the dust. Most notably was Dead Rising, which had text that could barely be read on an 480i SDTV screen - something which Capcom refused to patch. And with 4kTVs now becoming the mainstream, it leads me to worry that the next-gen might be a bridge to far for devs to test their games on lower-resolution TVs.

As someone who probably won't be buying a 4KTV for another year, should I expect disappointment if I'm still a 1080peon when the next gen cometh?
 
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Ababol

Ababol

Member
Oct 25, 2017
334
No. The jump from SDTV to HDTV was much higher because it was also a jump from (mostly) 4:3 to 16:9 and because it made some games almost unplayable on SDTVs because they didn't have enough resolution for certain fonts and details.

That is absolutely not the case when jumping from 1080p to 4K. If they offered 1080p 60fps for 4K 30fps games, 1080p would actually be a better option in many cases.
 
Slayven

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,184
I clicked on this thread thinking about Dead Rising, that was so fucked up. Skyrim was also unplayable on SD tvs because you couldn't see the menus

But no I don't think it will be that bad, SD to HD was a huge leap and I think scaling tools are a lot better
 

Deleted member 7883

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,387
Ababol said:
No. The jump from SDTV to HDTV was much higher because it was also a jump from (mostly) 4:3 to 16:9 and because it made some games almost unplayable on SDTVs because they didn't have enough resolution for certain fonts and details.
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first post sums it up perfectly. I had a giant old 1080i "HD" TV that lasted up until the final days of the previous generation. I wasn't able to read any of the text in any game post-Red Dead Redemption (oddly enough, Dead Rising 1 was fine lol). It was terrible. Unless the jump to 4K ruins text legibility, it'll be fine for most folks.
 
Slayven

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,184
another thing, you had people still hooking their shit upt to HD tvs using a/v cables
 
TheMoon

TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,779
Video Games
Don't drink all that 4/8k-ool aid. Who can even know how many ks they're being shown in motion when not pixelcounting screenshots.

SD-to-HD was such a leap in screen size that came with a move to widescreen for most people combined with a fairly big leap in shaders and effects that is what made that jump feel so spectacular. You going from 1080p to 4k with maybe HDR is gonna be a thing you'll have to talk yourself into really feeling the effect of. If you can even tell something's notably different.
 
EvilBoris

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,686
SD to HD was massive

But at the same time , dropping back to a 900p/1080p game from 4Kcb/ 1800p or 4K feels pretty horrible too

And that's before I even, consider HDR. Older non HDR games do look fuller and flatter too
 
exodus

exodus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,951
Nah, 1080p is more than enough to resolve any meaningful visual elements you might have in a game.

I'll be sticking with my 1080p plasma for the foreseeable future, even with new consoles coming out. TVs still aren't good enough and cheap enough to warranty me upgrading yet. I'd need to go OLED to surpass the quality of my plasma which is still too expensive for me. I'm waiting for the tech to get cheaper and the standards to mature a bit.

4K downsampled to 1080p still looks damned good.
 
digitalrelic

digitalrelic

Weight Loss Champion 2018: Biggest Change
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,124
No, because of diminishing returns. Similar to how the jump to 4K UHD from blu-ray isn't as significant as the jump to blu-ray from DVD was.
 
0ptimusPayne

0ptimusPayne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,754
Slayven said:
I clicked on this thread thinking about Dead Rising, that was so fucked up. Skyrim was also unplayable on SD tvs because you couldn't see the menus

But no I don't think it will be that bad, SD to HD was a huge leap and I think scaling tools are a lot better
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Yup immediately thought of dead rising when it launched on 360. Couldn't read shit on my screen lol.
 
EvilBoris

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,686
Jegriva said:
I didn't have the money, and it had still great IQ (it was a 2008 Bravia). No big regrets, Xbox One had many 900p games all the same.

Now with a steady job I can afford a Q70R and transitioned to a X1X.
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It must be a pretty revelatory jump!
Just like it was when we went from 720pish Xbox One games to 4K on X
 

dedge

Member
Sep 15, 2019
2,429
I don't think so, at least not for a while. Pro/X enhanced games are giving a lot of options for framerate vs resolution or bells and whistles modes. I think next gen systems will offer 1080p modes that offer framerate or enriched visuals for a lot of games.
 
Mentalist

Mentalist

Member
Mar 14, 2019
18,034
I stroooongly doubt it. On PC, 4K is such a minority, no one's gonna be expecting 4K to be the necessity.
 

severianb

Banned
Nov 9, 2017
957
No. Most people are using TVs that are too small to take advantage of 4K. The human eye is simply not capable of resolving the detail.

Check out this chart:

optimal-viewing-distance-television-graph-size.png


If your couch is 10 feet away, your TV needs to be at *least* 75" to see any difference between 1080P and 4K. Assuming perfect vision and flawless content.

I see a lot of people talking about their fancy new 65" OLEDs and how sharp their 4K is. I hope they are closer than 8 feet from their TV or have super vision.


(As an aside this chart shows how pointless 8K is. You would have to sit 6 feet from a 100+" screen to take advantage of it. I hope those people buying 82" 8K TVs are sitting 5 feet away)
 
AppleKid

AppleKid

Member
Feb 21, 2018
2,543
Nope, no transition will ever be that confusing again. Unless all games move to VR like On Cinema that is:
 
maximumzero

maximumzero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,931
New Orleans, LA
severianb said:
No. Most people are using TVs that are too small to take advantage of 4K. The human eye is simply not capable of resolving the detail.

Check out this chart:

optimal-viewing-distance-television-graph-size.png


If your couch is 10 feet away, your TV needs to be at *least* 75" to see any difference between 1080P and 4K. Assuming perfect vision and flawless content.

I see a lot of people talking about their fancy new 65" OLEDs and how sharp their 4K is. I hope they are closer than 8 feet from their TV or have super vision.


(As an aside this chart shows how pointless 8K is. You would have to sit 6 feet from a 100+" screen to take advantage of it. I hope those people buying 82" 8K TVs are sitting 5 feet away)
Click to expand...
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40" 1080p TV, sitting roughly 5 to 7 feet away, if I were to guess. Don't plan on upgrading my TV until it up and dies on me. (Even though there's a nasty "stain" on the picture that's viewable when a solid light color is shown, that's just annoying at worst.)
 
Jegriva

Jegriva

Banned
Sep 23, 2019
5,519
Black Chamber said:
Graphics and visuals were and always will be important to most people👍
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I remember with astounding clarity all the discussion I had with my friends around 1996-1999 on how 2d graphics was ugly. And I totally remember watching Destruction Derby at 10fps on PS1 and thinking "Yup, this is better than Yoshi's Island".
 
arcadepc

arcadepc

Banned
Dec 28, 2019
1,925
crt to hd did not suffer as much from resolution change, but mainly from the old input/output method (RF and Scart, 50/60 hz support, PAL/NTSC/SECAM etc). Many old TVs did not support 60hz or turned black and white.

Eg Dreamcast games via VGA output still look very good on digital TVs.
Now that TVs adopted HDMI, it should be less of a hassle.
 
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