Xbox sales are plummeting even in the US. It's pretty much dead in the water here in Europe.
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Will Sony expand PS NOW to rival Gamepass? (All major first party games included with service)
- Thread starter g23
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Obviously sales are plummeting, the Xbox one is half a decade old and the next one is coming out in a year.
Worldwide sales were always bad, unless people have deluded themselves to think otherwise.
Omg how could I forget Stadia.
Also what I said is not wrong. "UPlay Plus is only available on PC and only in their store"
So is only Stadia they plan to expand for now? Because if they expand to every platform, I can garantee you that their full price sales will take a huge hit.
User Banned (3 Days): Antagonizing another member
hey, aren't you that die-hard Xbox WAIT FOR BUILD fan guy? How's that always being right working out for you?
Its inevitable that the success of gamepass will mean that Sony will have to start offering something comparible at some point. You don't have to Nostradamus to predict that.
Sony will probably be the last hold out, eventually when all the big publishers want to move their subscription services across all platforms they'll be pressured into doing similar if things go well. Sony's output is so good at the moment that they have the ability to keep things as they are from their own studios, people will still buy their games.
The bigger issue is that Sony clearly had a problem with EA Access for the longest time and it's obvious they don't want anything like that really interfering with their own PS Now service. I imagine they'll be very reluctant to allow any services on their platform which effects their revenue from games sold, the problem they have is when other platforms start allowing it, you have the potential of Xbox having a couple of very competitive subscription services providing all the latest releases from a ton of the biggest publishers and Sony facing off against that with their normal sales model. It'll be interesting for sure.
The bigger issue is that Sony clearly had a problem with EA Access for the longest time and it's obvious they don't want anything like that really interfering with their own PS Now service. I imagine they'll be very reluctant to allow any services on their platform which effects their revenue from games sold, the problem they have is when other platforms start allowing it, you have the potential of Xbox having a couple of very competitive subscription services providing all the latest releases from a ton of the biggest publishers and Sony facing off against that with their normal sales model. It'll be interesting for sure.
Sony's major first-party titles are selling like hot cakes, industry demands their games. Only this gen Sony has like 5+ exclusives sold more than 10M copies. From business perspective the only thing that could make sense is expand PS Now with previously released games but not with first-party day 1. Microsoft's situation is that not many people are willing to buy their first-party day 1 for 60$. There are lots of reasons for that. And their major strategy now is to grow gamepass at all costs. They need a high number of users to make their business scheme profitable.
I don't really get MS here. Why not make GP a true online service that's also available on PS4 , Switch, PC, Mac basically doing a stadia/Netflix clone for games and stop selling hardware (at a loss most likely) altogether.
This is probably what they want to do.
The biggest setback is not being able to have a unified library without xCloud - PC Gamepass is a totally separate thing and many here don't think it's as worth it as it's console counterpart. Assuming Nintendo and Sony will allow XBL sign ins on their platforms, I'm certain we will see this in the future.
I don't think they need to. They sold around a 100 million ps4s, and a lot of people will just upgrade to PS5 especially if it has the backwards compatibility. MS is doing a lot of experimentation but they are not in a good posiition and even with next gen soon I'm not sure if people are willing to give a chance to them (and I'm the guy who loves Gears 5 and the Xbox one x)
You still need a hero device. This is why MS continues to invest in Surface and Google continues to invest in Nexus/Pixel. When you depend 100% on others for the hardware that can have some bad consequences.
This is why Amazon pushed so much hardware as well. They could have allowed Sony and Apple back in the day to handle ebooks/audiobooks but they would have led to them giving up a big slice of the pie.
Well, the use i quoted said literally this:
If I can sell one box that plays great games for basically free, and the other is much more expensive, that sells itself.
They're not going to stop selling hardware, and Sony would never in a million years let gamepass on their console. They barely budged on crossplay. If the competition runs laps around your own services how does that make them look?
Xbox is still a profitable business and they do well, I don't get where the idea comes from that they're a floundering business.
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This would only ever happen if MS has massive success next gen. With the value proposition I could see this happening in perhaps 2+3 years but it all depends on content.
As it stands I think Sony will stick to their very successful model. I can see the 2 platforms work like HBO Vs Netflix.
That being said, I think streaming is inevitable. MS are coming in hard and Sony will do what they can to compete naturally.
As it stands I think Sony will stick to their very successful model. I can see the 2 platforms work like HBO Vs Netflix.
That being said, I think streaming is inevitable. MS are coming in hard and Sony will do what they can to compete naturally.
Eventually 1st party games show up on PSNow already, it's just not very fast. They won't do day 1 releases for years and if they do it'd probably be more due to Stadia then Game Pass. I wouldn't be surprised if PSNow goes back to selling streaming versions for $60, but with day 1 options.
This, basically.
At the moment as the runaway market leader, with a string of highly successful first party games, there is no pressure to change.
if next gen gamepass starts to have a significant impact, then they may consider it, but it does not feel likely.
Gears playerbase has bounced backed thanks to GP, and sku sales isnt what MS is focused on anymore, your applying your outdated model that is irrelevant to services model. More people are playing Gears then ever, and i assume subscriptions have shot through the roof and will continue to with other big games releasing on the service.
Oh boy, another thread about Gamepass. At this pace I'm tempted to believe it's something people secretly want to see on their favorite platform.
SONY doesn't have to mimick GP, but for sure Xbox won me, beginning of this generation I was 100% PS4 now I barely switch on that console.
SONY doesn't have to mimick GP, but for sure Xbox won me, beginning of this generation I was 100% PS4 now I barely switch on that console.
Gamepass is just a rental service. If Sony wanted a rental service full of third party games, they would do it themselves and a Gamepass consisting of only xbox first party games is worthless
Imo sony can't just make their first party in some sort of service... each individual exclusive game they make cost ton of money..
If anything nintendo really need to do this. It would make switch 100 times more appealing.
If anything nintendo really need to do this. It would make switch 100 times more appealing.
You're arguing with made up numbers here. More people are playing Gears than ever before? Yeah, I really doubt that.
Not every game is suited for monthly services. AAA single player high budget games are not suitable for monthly plan.
at the end I feel it will devalue their games and it's slippery slope that they might not recover from once customers associate their games with 10$ or 1$ a month .people might not be willing to pay 60$ for them again
at the end I feel it will devalue their games and it's slippery slope that they might not recover from once customers associate their games with 10$ or 1$ a month .people might not be willing to pay 60$ for them again
Consoles is irrelevant to the subscription market. The reason why Game Pass is drawing in lots of indie and third parties is because Microsoft pays them to appear on Game Pass. For indies this a huge opportunity for exposure.
Being on PlayStation Store despite being a larger user base doesn't guarantee more money and success.
When you think in that perspective, Sony does not have an advantage.
Why would they go to a subscription model is they make way more money the way they selling the game now.
Because all of the sudden Sony will stop caring about making more money?
Sony gaming division makes more money than MS gaming division. They sell more consoles too.
Because all of the sudden Sony will stop caring about making more money?
Sony gaming division makes more money than MS gaming division. They sell more consoles too.
Yeah, if Game Pass is successful Sony won't be far behind.
A Sony Game Pass would arguably be better than Xbox GP.
I could easily see them getting 50 million subs at $10 a month, raking in way more money than they make from just selling games.
120 * 50 million = 6,000,000,000 dollars year
I don't even know what that number is but it's big!
A Sony Game Pass would arguably be better than Xbox GP.
I could easily see them getting 50 million subs at $10 a month, raking in way more money than they make from just selling games.
120 * 50 million = 6,000,000,000 dollars year
I don't even know what that number is but it's big!
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Maybe. But they will be the last of the three is my guess.
Businesses seeing no need to change because they're doing really well fail all the time.
that's assuming MS continues to pay out the ass for said indies the next 5 or however many years. questionable whether the gravy train continues once they gain
"enough" subscribers
How would a Sony game pass be more successful. Sony couldn't even get good recent third party games on PSNow despite saying that they'll improve the quality of PSNow.
The same people who say that GP is unsustainable are now saying that a Sony GP will be more successful.
Let's be honest if PSNow and GP released at the same time and had the same model. PSNow would be the first to go belly up.
If GP is unsustainable PSNow would be even more unsubstainable and lead Sony in ruin.
The Netflix model is a high risk high reward business model and only the companies that have other businesses to absorb the losses can successfully play this model.
Because their first party games are more highly regarded than Xbox's.
First Party games, especially Single Player Narrative games that are finished at 20hours aren't going to sustain a business.
The best we will see is Sony releasing their games a year later. Even then that's a stretch.
The number is a lot less impressive when you consider that the Playstation division already has a revenue of 20 billion a year of which 10 are from PSN alone. So yeah, they're already making more money than that just by selling video games.
Last year PlayStation brought in something like 18 billion in revenue.
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Close. Games and Network Services brought in 20.8 Billion, an 18% YoY INCREASE from FY 2017.
12.5 Billion of that was JUST from PSN, which exceeded the entire amount Microsoft's gaming division brought in combined.
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Saying Sony "has to" do something like Gamepass is lunacy. They're completely steamrolling Microsoft right now and it isn't close at all.
To match what Sony makes in revenue from PSN with Gamepass, Microsoft would need over 100 million people paying 10 dollars a month, every month, every year.
For reference, Netflix only has 60 million US subscribers and 150m globally. 100m people on Gamepass is complete fantasyland.
And this completely impossible figure would still be 8 billion dollars short of the non digital revenue Sony brings in outside of PSN.
Keep in mind also that the PS4 is a six year old system. Revenue should be in decline for this thing due to market saturation. In the first or second year of a NEW system, total revenues would skyrocket.
Close. Games and Network Services brought in 20.8 Billion, an 18% YoY INCREASE from FY 2017.
12.5 Billion of that was JUST from PSN, which exceeded the entire amount Microsoft's gaming division brought in combined.
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Saying Sony "has to" do something like Gamepass is lunacy. They're completely steamrolling Microsoft right now and it isn't close at all.
To match what Sony makes in revenue from PSN with Gamepass, Microsoft would need over 100 million people paying 10 dollars a month, every month, every year.
For reference, Netflix only has 60 million US subscribers and 150m globally. 100m people on Gamepass is complete fantasyland.
And this completely impossible figure would still be 8 billion dollars short of the non digital revenue Sony brings in outside of PSN.
Keep in mind also that the PS4 is a six year old system. Revenue should be in decline for this thing due to market saturation. In the first or second year of a NEW system, total revenues would skyrocket.
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All of this.
I also don't see a long term business model giving away more than a couple of AAA games a year on a sub service at $10/mo or so. It's a race to the bottom IMHO, because it invites excessive monetization and cutting corners in production. The math doesn't add up otherwise.
Splintering of publishers going with their own focused services will only continue as well, diluting things just as what is happening to Netflix etc. Consumer overload in terms of subs is already rising.
Amidst all of that, the contenders who can command $60/pop on many millions per title can vastly exceed the profits possible for each dev. Primarily this is Nintendo, Sony, and Ubi right now.
With BC in both consoles, this generation will not be a complete reset.
Good post containing some actual numbers to provide much needed perspective in this thread.
There's also something I've been thinking about since PS+ started to "suck" at the same time PS4 became a runaway success. Perhaps someone can correct my thinking on this because I'm not a business analyst, but the following seems intuitively true to me:
The more successful a platform and, specifically, the higher projected software sales are, the more it will cost a platform holder to secure content for a subscription service. Microsoft has very cleverly weaponized a lower install base in a way that Sony cannot answer 1:1 because Sony would have to pay ~2x the amount MS pays to compensate publishers for potential sales. Having a larger install based of course should also mean more subscription revenue, but the question is whether that revenue can scale proportionally, since subs are a much cheaper way for consumers to get a bulk of content. What proportion of the userbase needs to subscribe to turn a profit when your first party games are all selling millions at launch?
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Not sure what you're getting at here.
Fiscal year revenues for a 6 year old system should be MUCH lower than revenues for a new launch, because everyone who is in a position to buy a console pretty much already has one. Everyone paying for games on PSN and buying them retail will keep doing so for next generation, only they'll be paying hundreds more for new hardware, new accessories, etc than they were before on the system they already owned.
There is no "reset"- vendor lock in is a thing. No one is really interested in "losing" their digital games or friends lists by moving to a new platform. The same people that are on PS4 currently will almost certainly be moving to PS5, and the same people within the Xbox One ecosystem will probably move to Microsoft's new platform.
New generations are never a reset because you have brand loyalty, sequels people are gonna wanna play, backwards compatibility and people already having long running subscriptions.
Might also be worth mentioning that Microsoft literally does not compete at all with Sony in the vast majority of the EU and JP. There's no possibility for a "reset" there even under the most extreme circumstances. Sony has that market entirely to themselves (Nintendo aside, who is going after a different demographic) no matter what happens.