First I heard about it was after this, how do we know he's any different?
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Will Smith Breaks Silence: “Deeply Remorseful” For Oscar Slap
- Thread starter DinkyDev
- Start date
Let's not forget you responded to a post asking you about Dave Chappelle's recent attacks on trans people with "there is a difference between a joke and hate speech". It was a pretty ignorant statement to make when you understand just how frequently the two are intertwined.
You are. Your whole fantasy of Rock not knowing despite the fact that he clearly knew is just nonsense that you are hiding behind in order to avoid admitting you are wrong.
Also on a side note why am I the only person you are responding to? Why do you not address any of the posts by The Adder for example. Or Kyuuji?
A good portion of that could be that you don't travel in the same social circle as all three of the participants in this, nor have you ever talked to Jada Pinkett Smith for any length of time, let alone 20 years.
... She shared it publicly before, so I am pretty sure that people who know her more than as the woman on a screen would be aware.
Like, I'm pretty sure Joe Biden doesn't tell everyone he meets 'I grew up with a stutter and I was bullied because of it'... but he's mentioned it enough times that people know it.
The joke was fucked up. The slap was fucked up. Both fucked up. The problem? People think that comedians are like gods or something. You can't say mean shit just because you can and you think is funny. So yeah, a comedian didn't get a way with it. On the other hand, Smith's attitude, the classic "macho" shit, is lame as fuck. You can be better, so much better without slapping people around.
Why don't you tell me about it then. I said I was not familiar with the discourse. I followed up my comment about the difference between jokes made in poor taste and something said out of a dislike for someone or a group with the intention of hurting or upsetting people.
Explain how that is ignorant?
You haven't known her for over a decade. You don't run in the same social circle. You haven't had a weird focus on her for over 20 years. Rock isn't a moron and it wasn't a secret.
The hoops you people are jumping through to avoid admitting that Rock was also in the wrong here is just amazing.
So we're to purely assume the best of Chris despite no reason to? That's on top of assuming he didn't know about her condition. It just seems we're having to assume a fair bit despite nothing to back it up
Yes. Jada has a talk show where she's spoken about this.
But besides that, I would expect the "comedian" who made a documentary on Black hair to know that, or at least display sensitivity. I wouldn't expect you to know that; you haven't demonstrated a prior interest in the topic that I'm aware of.
Some reactions to some takes :
_About the stand up freedom of speech.. BS. There is a difference. If say a stand up artist jokes about religion or any political subject, and people threaten him then you have a problem indeed. NOW if you personally insult or joke about ONE person, in the the room, and that people doesn't like it and slaps you, well.. that's a risk yeah lol. There is no freedom of speech there, it's a problem between 2 person.. If your joke is personal, you may have a personal response.
_Interestingly, about what is a slap. If the wife did it, nobody would have ever talked about that whole physical violence thing. If someone says something really not elegant to a woman, and she slaps in response, you're not going to hear about shocking violence. People are going to be all "yeah girl well done!"
Now the husband did it and i recall a woman journalist in France saying it was basically a sexist macho thing to protect his wife lol. And also suddenly a slap is like a shot gun or something.
When a slap is (i said it back then already) the most polite form of violence. It's the act of not punching someone, it's symbolical. It's literally removing your glove to slap someone with it like in ancient times! It's the gentlemen violence. I still think Smith acted like a fool but let's not talk about savage violence.
_Finally, about him laughing before. The way i interpret the situation: He witnessed the assault (that was an assault and an humiliation, intentional or not), and had the intuitive reflex to laugh to play the game on tv (he talked about that i think at the end), like he shouldn't react, or revolt. He had to accept the humiliation of his wife cause you don't do waves in that kind of show, you's a good boy and you shut up. Then he immediately felt super bad about it seeing her, and felt so guilty that he had to do something.
_About the stand up freedom of speech.. BS. There is a difference. If say a stand up artist jokes about religion or any political subject, and people threaten him then you have a problem indeed. NOW if you personally insult or joke about ONE person, in the the room, and that people doesn't like it and slaps you, well.. that's a risk yeah lol. There is no freedom of speech there, it's a problem between 2 person.. If your joke is personal, you may have a personal response.
_Interestingly, about what is a slap. If the wife did it, nobody would have ever talked about that whole physical violence thing. If someone says something really not elegant to a woman, and she slaps in response, you're not going to hear about shocking violence. People are going to be all "yeah girl well done!"
Now the husband did it and i recall a woman journalist in France saying it was basically a sexist macho thing to protect his wife lol. And also suddenly a slap is like a shot gun or something.
When a slap is (i said it back then already) the most polite form of violence. It's the act of not punching someone, it's symbolical. It's literally removing your glove to slap someone with it like in ancient times! It's the gentlemen violence. I still think Smith acted like a fool but let's not talk about savage violence.
_Finally, about him laughing before. The way i interpret the situation: He witnessed the assault (that was an assault and an humiliation, intentional or not), and had the intuitive reflex to laugh to play the game on tv (he talked about that i think at the end), like he shouldn't react, or revolt. He had to accept the humiliation of his wife cause you don't do waves in that kind of show, you's a good boy and you shut up. Then he immediately felt super bad about it seeing her, and felt so guilty that he had to do something.
I'd say the same to you, lots of people assuming the worst based on.... What?
I think the only reason its hard to believe is because of just how fucked up it is if he knew and did it anyway, and seemed to care about. If he knew it would hurt and did it anyway then yeah that's fucked. Comedians getting called out is good actually.
Man had been doing many hours a week of therapy after living a life of being neuro atypical and I know very well how that can effect decision making and information processing in a way others will never know. If he was putting in that much effort into maintaining a sense of mental order and this still happened im not sure what to make of it.
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The onus isn't on anyone to prove they don't know something. It's on others to prove they do. It does stretch believability though that he made that particular documentary and didn't know that one of the most prominent black actors in Hollywood had it. If he truly didn't know, though, then that joke was just a dumb adlibbed GI Jane joke, which is pretty consistent with where his career has been the past decade. Maybe stop hanging with the Sandler crew. But even if he didn't know, he does now. Fucking apologize, accept Wills apology and move on.
I'm just repeating myself from the last page somewhere I'm fairly sure but on the basis that he's had a history if making her a target. Did so for her activism, and has a knowledge of the relevance with hair and culture for black women since he did a show on it.
That's not to even mention, since when would it be fine to mock a woman for having a shaved head regardless of what you do or don't know? She could have alopecia, be battling cancer, have any number of conditions that could be a possible motivation to shave their head beyond it being for a style. If you don't know about the person anyway it should be an automatic no go zone
If you don't know about Dave Chappelle's attacks on trans people then look them up if you want to understand the context behind the sentiment. It's not a difficult one to search for and he hasn't been subtle about it. It would (genuinely) be faster than me writing it all out.
The ignorance is in trying to draw the hard line between the two, especially with something as vague as jokes made in poor taste. Comedy has a history of running cover for bigotry and hate speech, not least with regard to transphobia. Which is part of why people like Dave Chappelle, Ricky Gervais and Bill Burr all manage to keep their specials and stand-ups going despite using them as a platform to demean trans people for years. It's not hate you see, it's just a joke. It might be in poor taste but... He doesn't really dislike trans people he's just... and so on and so forth.
Chris Rock knows the history of black women hair in the US.
He also knows and outright doesn't like Jada.
He knew what he was doing. Certainly not the first time he has made jokes to appease the (white) masses at the expense of black people, namely women. It just didn't work out the way it normally does for him.
He also knows and outright doesn't like Jada.
He knew what he was doing. Certainly not the first time he has made jokes to appease the (white) masses at the expense of black people, namely women. It just didn't work out the way it normally does for him.
That's not how "facts" work. You can't just say "he clearly knew" and call it a fact.
Do you think the fact he made Good Hair makes it more or less likely that he would deliberately target her medical condition in front of millions of people?
That is the point people are making. He knew about her condition. He knew better than to make the joke. He did it anyway.
Dudes an asshole.
The fact that he made Good Hair makes it more than likely that he was full well aware of how harmful the "joke" was and yet decided to make it anyway.
How do you know that? You say they're in the same social circle, but how do you even know that? How do you know if they ever make contact unless it's for work? Your whole theory is based on the idea he follows her as much as you all seem too, and where's the proof of that besides like, three jokes he's aimed at her, two of which when she was in the news?
1. It was public knowledge.
2. The mother fucker has been taking shots at Jada for 25 years.
3. He made Good Hair, so if you want to give him the ludicrous benefit of the doubt that he didn't know Jada's condition specifically, he sure as fuck knew about the history of black women and hair in the United States of America and took a shot at her regardless.
His brother came out and said he didn't know. I don't think it's right to disregard that statement and assume he did because... reasons?
I think it's far too cynical to think that a man who cared enough to make Good Hair would use that information to knowingly and maliciously put a woman down in that way.
In a perfect world the next day Chris would have come out and apologised to Jada and clarified that he didn't know. If he did know, again he could have apologised for making a dumb joke that was insensitive of her condition.
I don't fault him for going underground and not wanting to reenter the fray though.
Either way, I don't think it justifies what happened to him. It's that simple.
So you are one of those people that thinks words are just words and cannot do harm?
That nothing anyone says justifies physical actions taken against them?
Just to add, making jokes about somebody's medical condition is by its very definition a form of hate speech, intentional or not.
That's what I'm gathering here, some people follow celebrities A LOT more than I do.
The mother fucker has been making jokes about Jada's personal and professional life for twenty-five fucking years.
I get that some of y'all are choosing to ignore that for the sake of your bullshit nonsense, but it doesn't change the fact.
If that's what you're getting then I think you're misunderstanding.
He didn't "fuck around with a back woman's hair" the way you're framing. He saw an actress with a shaved head sitting in the front row and made an off the cuff remark about her playing a role famously played by a woman with a shaved head.
Insensitive? Sure. Deserving of physical assault on stage in front of millions? Nah.
Nah you can read the rest of my posts in this thread to see I don't think that at all.
He didn't see "an actress."
He saw "Jada Pinkett Smith." He knows her.
Lets not do this shit.
He started in on her in 1997 when she was supporting the Million Woman March because, for some reason, he found the idea worthy of ridicule. He's been taking unprompted potshots at Jada ever since. This isn't even the first time he took a shot at her at an awards show!
Everyone is supposed to know cause it's "public" knowledge? I didn't know, and I can't help but think no one is less interested in the life of celebrities than other celebrities; I don't find it difficult to believe he didn't know, and whether he knows about the condition or not is irrelevant if he didn't know she had it. Lastly, I haven't seen anything showing he's made fun of Jada any more than any other celebrity, especially when one of those times she was on his show, and another time she was boycotting the Oscars Chris happened to be hosting.
People sure do love equating comedy to genius while dumbing it down to the pits.
I still don't think what he did was that huge of a deal. Not the ideal response but I get it given the context. I feel like both probably thought they went too far.
Imagine you're at a party and you accidentally or purposely make an insensitive joke. Someone you don't know comes slapping or whatever. You'd probably think, ya know, they got anger issues or whatever. I don't think Will does. It takes a lot of resentment to get up on stage and slap the shit out of someone for that level of insensitive joke. That was a slap decades in the making.
Huh? Because I said he probably doesn't follow celebs? Why would celebs follow people they have to work with and know personally?
I'm out.
The disingenuousness at this point from people defending Chris Rock is just ridiculous.
The disingenuousness at this point from people defending Chris Rock is just ridiculous.
I'd leave my partner if they did that too.
Well, severely condemn them and maybe forgive them eventually.
User Banned (Permanent): Inappropriate commentary surrounding mental health and racial dogwhistling across multiple posts, previous severe bans for inflammatory commentary in sensitive threads
Yep, at best it's a massive warning sign.