Chappelle's hatred of the trans community does not "border" on hate speech. It IS hate speech. Full stop.
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Will Smith Breaks Silence: “Deeply Remorseful” For Oscar Slap
- Thread starter DinkyDev
- Start date
This is a pretty muddled argument.
I don't see too many people arguing that all words are fine.
Being ok with Richard Spencer being belted but not with assaulting a comedian for a dumb joke isn't all that inconsistent. I also don't consider it sheltered to acknowledge that distinction.
And yet some are acting like he is only apologizing now lol.
There's a difference between a a gram and a tonne too and there's a whole load between you're bypassing there. Attacking people's conditions may not be hate speech, but it also isn't a joke or remotely acceptable.
Well it's rather sheltered to frame it as a joke. It's an attack on somebodies medical conditions. Would you consider that a joke? Like if I see you missing a leg, that's not my place to make a joke from right? If we're best friends for years maybe if i know youre comfortable with it, but someone you don't really know close enough for that? Someone you also went at for their part in activism before? That doesn't seem like a joke
Will Smirh ruined comedy and comedians able to get work. Every night, all comedians are physically attacked and brutalized. He should be paying damages to Comedians unable to work safely, like Patton Oswalt.
I get the feeling this is getting locked soon, just like the rest of these Will Smith slap threads.
It's incredibly inconsistent.
Unless, of course, you want to completely divorce yourself from Black women and the cultural history surrounding their hair.
This is a horrible take, you're not him and don't know what was going on in his head
That requires some amount of self-awareness I'm pretty sure these posters lack.
He called a woman who has a medical condition that makes it hard for her to grow hair "G.I. Jane".
How the hell is that not mocking her hair issues?
Chris's joke was absolutely in terrible taste, I already said that. There is a difference between joking about something in poor taste and deliberately demeaning a person or group of people out of a personal dislike or hatred for them.
'It was a joke' continues to put in a lot of work covering for bigotry and demeaning remarks. How people continue to think hateful comments become sacrosanct as soon as you put them into a microphone in front of an audience with a smile on your face is beyond me.
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It's also pretty easy to hide demeaning commentary as a 'joke in poor taste.'
This is... definitely a conclusion a person has come to.
It's not good. It's not well thought out. But it is a conclusion.
Also don't duck The Adder
Does it not go beyond just 'poor taste' though? Chris Rock has himself actually produced a documentary, Good Hair, with the description:
First things first, he didn't know she has alopecia so he wasn't mocking her condition.
He simply saw an actress with a shaved head and lazily equated her with a role famously played by an actress with a shaved head.
I don't blame Jada if she was upset, and I'd like to think that Rock would apologise to her.
Yep, Chris of all people should have known exactly what he was doing. And yep...he knew exactly what he was doing.
Fuck Chris Rock.
I dont disagree, but this isn't a one time thing for Chris. He gave her shit for her part in the million woman march. He's done a show about hair and culture so he knows there's layers to what he's doing there. He's had a history of making her a target so it kinda seems like more than just a joke in bad taste when it's got a pattern.
Chris Rock didn't learn any real lesson, at this point he could repeat the joke in a set and he'd get cheered for it, "defending" the slap on that point is silly.
Will slapping him was the dumbest move possible and he clearly knows it, that moment and joke have now been immortalized. I hope Will can heal, he must be going through some shit if he thought going up to smack Chris in the middle of the Oscars was the correct decision to make in that moment. I hope Rock isn't too deeply affected knowing his history of being bullied, and I hope Jada can move on from a shit show she had nothing to do with.
Will slapping him was the dumbest move possible and he clearly knows it, that moment and joke have now been immortalized. I hope Will can heal, he must be going through some shit if he thought going up to smack Chris in the middle of the Oscars was the correct decision to make in that moment. I hope Rock isn't too deeply affected knowing his history of being bullied, and I hope Jada can move on from a shit show she had nothing to do with.
People are not saying that all words are fine. They're saying that there is no speech one can say, no matter how abhorrent or inciteful, that can warrant some vague notion of "violence" (and the deliberate vagueness of the violent act in question is the point, because this obfuscated framing allows them an infinite moral high ground to sneer at people who don't give as much of a shit as they do; it's really all about validation at this point, hence certain posters constantly feigning outrage about Era instead of actually talking to people). These are different arguments, and if you think the latter, you cannot be okay with Richard Spencer being clocked regardless, at which that point it becomes an argument about how your principles are upholding white supremacist status quos, which is not surprising given the sociopolitical make-up of this forum but I digress.
Do I think that Chris Rock said anything as harmful as Spencer did? Of course not. Because like with violence, I can differentiate between different levels of harmful speech. But there are posters here who, for one reason or another, literally think a slap is as much the end all be all as anything other physical violation you can do to a person.
Chris Rock has been attacking Jada for years. He literally made a movie about black womens hair. What are you even talking about?
Fair enough. I disagree with those people.
I also disagree with those people.
I see you continuing to duck me. As a reminder:
And
Even if you were somehow ignorant to the context of Black women and hair, which Chris certainly isn't, most people have the most basic appreciation that if you see a woman with a shaved head you don't start using it as a focal point in your mocking of them. For a host of reasons. Not if it's intended to be playful and not offensive and mean spirited.
Basic shit.
Basic shit.
Okay now you are showing how uninformed you are on the topic. Rock had been insulting her for literally YEARS. And her condition was not some deeply held secret. It was a known issue for her. Rock also made an entire documentary about black women, their hair, and the cultural significance of it for them.
Stop defending someone that does not deserve it. Especially if you don't know what you are talking about.
Nah I know the history. He's made what 3 jabs at her in 25 years? As a comic, how may other people has he taken shots at multiple times over that period? And like I said, I don't blame her for being pissed.
The only defence I'm making of Rock is that he didn't deserve to be assaulted on stage for making that dumb joke.
Honestly, I am not familiar with this documentary. Or if there is a history between Chris and Jada, I did see some comments earlier that lead me to believe that there is more to it beyond just the incident at the Oscars. Chris should apologize to Jada for the joke.
I agree, which makes it harder to determine a comics intention, e.g., one of my favorite comedians is Jim Jeffries, he made a lot of misogynistic jokes in some of his shows. Does he hate women? or does he just think it's funny to make those kinds of jokes? (He has toned them down over the years though as a result of backlash). My ex HATED him, but my current girlfriend really enjoys his shows.
It appears more difficult to find the line, I have autism (so does Jim Jeffries), so my interpretation of some issues is going to be different to others. I personally think that you should be able to joke about anything but the attitude towards the joke and intent is important to consider.
I completely understand the opposing view to this position though, or why jokes about minorities should only be made by someone in that minority group.
At the end of the day, I think that comedy is a tricky area to judge based on just the words that are used, intent and the general tone are very important.
It's more than a "dumb joke" though. That is the point people are trying to make to you. It went WAY past "just a joke".
You continuing not to get that despite it being explained to you over and over just proves my point.
I choose to believe he didn't know about her alopecia and that he wasn't deliberately mocking a medical condition.
He saw an actress with a shaved head and said she could play the role of a woman with a shaved head. It was a dumb joke.
I highly doubt the guy behind Good Hair would intentionally do so. He still fucked up monumentally and hasn't really said much since.
I know Chris dealt with bullying and apparently has a social disorder and while its not an excuse for the shit he's said on more than one occasion its unsettling that he's been deemed iredeemable.
by who?
Chris is a few apologies away from being alright in the minds of most people.
And why not?
If Will's had 4 months to apologize, Chris has also had 4 months to clarify his "joke."
So you choose to believe a fantasy instead of just admitting that you're wrong?
That is....something.
Does anyone have any proof of this besides that YT video that showed him jabbing her on his show, and then two other times over a span of 30 years? Everyone also keeps mentioning his documentary, but again, how was he supposed to know she had a condition? It's not exactly rare for some women to have their hair shaved, how can you prove he knew she had a condition besides the existence of an interview she had about it that I doubt Chris Rock even saw?
What are you talking about? What is factually incorrect?
I mean, he's still had 4 months to clarify what the joke was supposed to be and apologise to her right?
Who established the negative?
I'm not being pedantic. People love to conveniently forget that Rock started this whole thing with a crude, adlibed joke.
So where's the responsibility he bears to the person he wronged?
- Her medical condition was public knowledge.
- Whole articles were written about it and she talked about how self conscious she was about it.
- Rock and the Smiths have been in the same social circles for years and years
- Rock made an entire documentary about black women and their hair.
Are you seriously going to sit there and say that Rock didn't know? Really?