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Will Half-Life: Alyx ever be released for non-VR?
- Thread starter Video Kojima
- Start date
I think what we're seeing here is something similar, but on a bigger scale, as to games with motion controls or other weird input methods get.
A lot of people have a very strict idea of what a "proper" game is, and anything deviating from that must of course be worse somehow, so removing all weird elements so they can play it is the right thing to do.
Someone will bring up accessibility here, and that's a fair question. But like... Alyx is probably the most accessible VR game you're going to find comfort options and settings wise. There's a limit to how accessible you can make an experience without compromising it and the game is probably already there.
A lot of people have a very strict idea of what a "proper" game is, and anything deviating from that must of course be worse somehow, so removing all weird elements so they can play it is the right thing to do.
Someone will bring up accessibility here, and that's a fair question. But like... Alyx is probably the most accessible VR game you're going to find comfort options and settings wise. There's a limit to how accessible you can make an experience without compromising it and the game is probably already there.
You're never going to freeze up because you're in a stressful situation with multiple enemies, your gun just went empty and you have to remember how to reload it because that's not muscle memory yet, and then you try to fire it but nothing happens because you forgot to ready it after loading the clip.
You're never going to get the experience of being rushed by an enemy which is bigger than you are, jumping to one side to avoid their attack, fumbling to reload your shotgun and dropping (throwing) the ammo on the ground because of how imposing a threat they are.
Sure, you could probably make the interactions work on a monitor, but seeing enemies as a 5" tall 2D image on your screen is not going to invoke the same visceral reaction that playing the game in VR does.
It's a fundamentally different experience, and the game design is built around that.
The Oculus Quest 2 is arguably the best way to play the game anyway, since it's wireless.
It's also one of the cheapest headsets, and you'd be able to get back most of what you paid for it if you were to sell it.
IMO it's OK for some games to just stay on platforms best-suited to them.
Trying to port Half-Life: Alyx to non-VR would be like trying to port Astro's Playroom to the PS4. Yeah, you could do it, but the Dual Sense is primarily what makes that game special, so what's the point without it? Or - Astro Bot Rescue Mission to non-VR as a more apt comparison.
Each of these three games is special because of how fully and entirely it takes advantage of the platform / medium it was designed for, and trying to fundamentally change the platform would also fundamentally change the game so substantially that it's practically not even the same game anymore without it.
Trying to port Half-Life: Alyx to non-VR would be like trying to port Astro's Playroom to the PS4. Yeah, you could do it, but the Dual Sense is primarily what makes that game special, so what's the point without it? Or - Astro Bot Rescue Mission to non-VR as a more apt comparison.
Each of these three games is special because of how fully and entirely it takes advantage of the platform / medium it was designed for, and trying to fundamentally change the platform would also fundamentally change the game so substantially that it's practically not even the same game anymore without it.
I disagree and that is absolutely not the only way it's inaccessible.
- VR supports most eye conditions
- Alyx has good seated mode options
- One handed support
- Left/right handed support
- Teleport options
- Snap turning
- Light sensitivity options
- Horror elements tuned to be accessible
- Game mechanics meant to be simple to grasp; confusing elements cut out after playtests
- Works with WalkInVR allowing people with upper mobility issues to play
I mean, the game is really built for VR. They would probably need to redesign the stage layouts and redesign all the encounters in the game to make it into more of a proper non-VR Half Life game which I highly doubt they're interested in doing. Basically it would take a non-trivial amount of work to properly convert this game to a non-VR game as I'm doubtful that Valve would just do a quick and dirty conversion because taking that game and striping out the VR would also strip out a lot of what makes the game interesting (story aside).
I don't think it would work at all - game is designed around VR, things that are so mundane normally are what helps to create a believable world in HL-A eg something as silly as opening a drawer.
I thought the Oculus Quest 2 was vastly inferior in terms of control and resolution vs the Index?
The Index is 1440×1600 per eye, while the Quest 2 is 1832×1920 per eye.
It doesn't have the grip controls of the Index, but I would not say that it's vastly inferior.
Being untethered for room-scale games is a vastly superior experience though.
And it's $299 vs $999.
If you want to play Half Life Alyx and have a gaming PC just get a Quest 2 ($300) and buy Virtual Desktop ($20).
You can wirelessly play Half Life Alyx and if you have a large enough space you can even play it in room scale which is the best way to experience the game. The barrier to entry is not as high as people think as long as they already have a gaming pc.
You can wirelessly play Half Life Alyx and if you have a large enough space you can even play it in room scale which is the best way to experience the game. The barrier to entry is not as high as people think as long as they already have a gaming pc.
I've commented on these points elsewhere in the thread. I agree, people who want a version that isn't VR want something else but I'm trying to make the point that reworking it into that something else would not necessarily be a bad thing, especially if Valve were to do it.
My point was that there are alternative tennis, boxing, golf, etc. sports games for people who didn't like the Wii's motion controls but may still want to play those sports in video games. There is no Half-Life: Alyx for HL fans that don't like or want VR.
I'm aware but as I said in a previous post some expectations are not unjustified - I'm sure Valve were expecting some backlash for the decision to move HL exclusively to VR (and that's assuming all future HL games are VR.) If Valve had built a new IP for their big VR game those expectations wouldn't be a factor. Portal is a good example here. It's something else but its only set in the Half-Life universe and was a sequel to nothing.
Nope and it shouldn't. It's clearly meant to be a VR game from the ground up. Anything less would be inferior.
It's hilarious to me when people rail against VR because it has "no games" yet when a game that adds something to the genre and changes the medium comes along, people get mad that it's inaccessible to more people because Of VR.
This game will not work in pancake mode.
Plain and simple. If people here can afford 3080s, they can afford a Quest 2 to play this game the way it's meant to be played.
This game will not work in pancake mode.
Plain and simple. If people here can afford 3080s, they can afford a Quest 2 to play this game the way it's meant to be played.
No, the game would just not be good.
This is what's going to happen, someone is going to make a mod to make the game playable in non-VR, people are going to play it, and then whine in forums about how the game is overrated and they don't see what's so special about it.
This is what's going to happen, someone is going to make a mod to make the game playable in non-VR, people are going to play it, and then whine in forums about how the game is overrated and they don't see what's so special about it.
Regarding it being a bad thing, put yourself into the developers' shoes. Do you really think anyone who put their passion, talent, and years of work into this game would want to turn around and spend more years remaking this experience from almost the ground up? Do you think anyone at Valve would want to do that instead of spending time and resources on just making another new game instead?
Especially because this is Valve we're talking about. Their projects don't get off the ground unless enough developers are excited and willing to collaborate on it.
It would be pointless for Valve to remake their latest game, which is not even a year old, and create an inferior version at that.
It misses the point entirely.
Accept that you need to either buy a headset or forget about the game.
Hopefully it will come to PSVR2 to make it more accessible to people without gaming PCs, but it's always going to require VR.
Would I want to satisfy as many fans of a much loved series as I can? Yes, without hesitation. I would do something in mainline HL for those not interested in VR given that Alyx is such a radical change for the series and obviously not one everyone will or can be onboard with. Perhaps I would have made Alyx a spin-off series for VR players. I suppose Valve could be actually going down that route but I don't think so.
If it was a new IP (the Portal example), one not attached to a long running series that despite it having been left in limbo for so long has generated expectations for future games I would see your point because the expectation for it to be reworked without VR is much less reasonable then.
I have an Index and I have played the game.. how many times do I have to tell people this!? VR doesn't make it superior to me. It makes it different, with positives and negatives all its own.
While it's understandable that VR games can't easily be made into non-VR games I'm disappointed I won't be able to play them since health issues prevent me from using the headset.
I'm glad gaming is branching out into new forms but missing out on experiences in IPs I enjoy is a real bummer.
I'm glad gaming is branching out into new forms but missing out on experiences in IPs I enjoy is a real bummer.
I don't think you're genuinely putting yourself in the developer's shoes then. These are individual people with their own volitions and passions, they don't live and work just to satisfy a small segment of a fanbase.
I agree they should do something, but that something isn't going to be a remake of Alyx. Again, in this hypothetical it would take time and resources not too shy from making an entirely new game, so why wouldn't they make - and why wouldn't you want - an entirely new HL game instead?
I would argue it's not a small segment of the fan base. Surely there's a significantly higher number of people interested in a new HL who don't have or want a VR headset than those who do. Alyx has done really well considering its requirements (even cheap VR headsets are not "cheap"), 45k players around release I think it was. Without those requirements I could imagine it having gone far, far higher. Maybe even Cyberpunk numbers. The hype would there for it to gain impressive traction I think. It being VR only dampened that hype for a lot of people (myself included even though I ended up caving and buying an Index, begrudgingly).
Alyx connects directly with previous games in the series. If you forgo that you're missing part of that story, unless we assume this hypothetical non-VR HL game covers the missing plot beats?
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"Small segment" was referring to those who would want a flat-screen remake of Alyx presently at whatever the development cost. We're not talking about "what if they put out a non-VR HL instead of Alyx back in Feb", there's enough hypotheticals going on here. Honestly though just take "small segment" out of my post and my point remains the same.
I think people would be okay with missing the story connections in Alyx (and they could cover the final minutes of Alyx in the intro) if it meant getting Half-Life 3 or whatever in return.
There are also alternatives to Half Life Alyx, they are the other Half Life games. Yet it still provides an entirely different experience as do other sport games compared to Wii Sports. It makes no sense, because the VR mechanics is what makes Half Life Alyx what it is.
You are looking at a surface level on the experiences you are comparing. Wii Sports is not even something to experience sports. Nobody is going to suggest non motion controlled sports games as an alternative. Because it is essential to the experience. The game you are playing is not even remotely the same as the sports. It strips rules, has a very low barrier of entry and does not attempt to provide a realistic experience. It would work with minigames too, but the sports make it relatable and easier to understand. Nobody is going to suggest to play Wii Sports instead of a real game of tennis. All of those things are very different experiences.
The game could be reworked to be used without VR, but every level and gameplay mechanic would need to be overhauled to work well. And in the end it would still be a completely different experience.
If you remove everything that makes Half Life Alyx special then people are not experiencing Alyx in a different way, they are experiencing a new game.
I'm sure plenty of people are interested in a non-VR Half Life, it can even tell the same story as Alyx but it still would not be the same game or experience if the entire design needs to be changed.
I've already commented on these points earlier in the thread so I'll just say briefly (again) that wanting a version that isn't VR is, yes, wanting a different game and that's not a bad thing for those HL fans that don't want the one being offered and would rather play something in keeping with the rest of the series.
Yes of course many of them would appreciate a completely new Half Life game that is not VR. Maybe even based on the same story. That there is demand for a new Half Life game is kicking an open door.
The only thing a version of Alyx would provide though is another game in the same universe that is completely different from the VR one.
Fans would enjoy that and it is not like that Valve has not wanted to make a new Half Life game. But they could not work out something out they were satisfied with. A non-VR version of Alyx would have the same problem. Now it can exist as another game in the Half Life universe no matter how they continue with it as it does not continue the main story.
If they want to make a non-VR version of Alyx they may as well do a Half Life 3 instead, but the reasons for not having done so before still apply.
6DOF controls can work fine on a TV, when the game has been explicitly designed to avoid unintuitive scenarios. The games that utilized them best had static cameras, were slower-paced, focused on one repeatable/permutable physical interaction per title/minigame, had very low stakes if you failed, and only lightly touched on depth perception-intensive challenges.
I've spent a lot of time dwelling on how to put into words the value of an HMD in a game like Alyx. There are the obvious ones like depth perception and head/hand interdependence and ability to augment natural leg and head movement for peering, hiding, dodging, snatching xen grenades, or just finetuning the final footing as you approach a world interaction. And not having to use a right stick at all frees your thumb, giving you one less abstract input to have to coordinate. But the biggest advantage might ironically be the least-frequently discussed because it's the hardest for me to put into words. It's the fact that this visual information is so 1:1 true to scale and depth, that it burns right into my muscle memory so my next movement is precisely what it needs to be. It's like glancing at your room and then relying on visual and muscle memory to get to your bed in the pitch dark.
The problem with TV-based 6DOF controls is that you can't even get an accurate 1:1 map of your surroundings in the first place. You have to sit there and play around until you find the intersection point in space, or the proper off-axis throwing angle to make a grenade his a certain spot on the screen. It's safe to say for the devs, that Alyx (like most made-for-VR games) was designed with the intent that players had tech that made opening a drawer a piece of cake. Any challenges for the player should be based on the physical skill required of the challenge, not the artificial challenges of fighting with inferior input/display tech.
I've already had moments of fighting with the inputs and tech in Alyx, heh. Lots of weird door interactions where one hand causes a blockage, and fidgety hand stuff in general, physical head moving beyond the space causing orange vision, that kind of thing -- using Oculus Touch controls if that's important. Most things I don't even bother reaching out and grabbing and instead opt for gravity glove flicking, but things like handles have magnetic snapping into place once you press to grab. Blink/shift movement feels terrible for me so I play with continuous movement. It might be a difference in how we play, but I almost never had my thumb free from the right stick anyway, I'm always using it for left/right look adjustment while I'm mostly physically facing a single direction. I don't know the limitations or how 6DOF controls work without having cameras on you for depth tracking though, so I'm mostly thinking hypothetically and talking out of my ass here.
I didn't experience that orange OOB effect much in the game, and it was usually a cue to just crouch.
I forgot I could use the gravity gloves for drawer handles, likely because I'm planning to be within arm's reach of the drawer to see what's inside it anyway. Reaching for a close object 3D space is also a less erratic selection method than a pointer-based selection like Gravity Gloves. They're fantastic for out-of-reach things though. It's all about the best tool for the moment.
In VR, stick-turning brings a disruption to my physical immersion and absolute sense of direction. I don't tolerate it, I've always played standing for the 1:1 connection, independence of head and hands, and full body movement for max agility in competitive play/high intensity scenarios.
As someone who enjoyed Tumble with Moves and a 3DTV, and got full-room immersed in Sports Champions table tennis, I can relate with the enjoyment of the 6DOF motion controls plus flat panel combo, but I also know its limitations and its inability to facilitate faster more demanding and more dynamic and improvisational interactions at anywhere near a tenth of the level that a VR HMD allows. It would be a nightmare for accessibility, a critical flop, a commercial "meh, what year is it?" There isn't even a product or market out there for 6DOF tracking sans VR anymore. It's regressive, not innovative, underqualified not adequate, and the opposite of the goal Valve wishes to pursue in this modern age. It's not a good strategic move by any stretch of the imagination, not even for a few thousand extra sales from the consumer who would take the bait on a half-baked product.
It's almost like games can be specifically designed around a a revolutionary new tech and not necessarily work well with conventional tech.
People really thought that HL: Alyx was just gonna be like your typical first person game that happens to have a VR mode.