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Deleted member 11276

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,223
Ok, so after the Xbox series X announcement, I'm pretty worried about any PC GPU that is below a RTX 2080.

We've seen a Hellblade 2 trailer that assumingly sports full ray tracing while also running at 4K and frankly, puts out every other game there is to shame. We also saw a PS5 title that supports full ray traced reflections AND runs at 4K60, while, and that is the important part, current games like Shadow of The Tomb Raider, BF5, Metro and Control look much worse than that and also take a deep hit in performance with RTX on (even if its just reflections like in the PS5 title). And those, with RTX on, can't be done at native 4K60 even on a 2080TI even though they are much simpler games and use less RT techniques.


Furthermore, leaked specs according to insiders, are 12 RDNA2 TFLOPs, which puts them in a league between RTX 2080 and RTX 2080Ti which is just crazy.

So is it safe to say that AMD's solution of real time RT puts the one in Turing to shame? Also the raw performance destroys every card under a 2080.

Sure, Turing also supports VRS and Mesh Shaders which could improve performance more, but is that really enough to catch up with the consoles?

Or maybe Microsoft and AMD found a way to drastically improve Raytracing performance in DXR and Nvidia will further accelerate that with RT cores, so having RT performance on par with RDNA2 or even better? I mean there is also Crytek's version of RT which is much more efficient than RTX and runs even without RT cores, so maybe it's more like that but with dedicated hardware next gen?



What do you think?
 

Dest

Has seen more 10s than EA ever will
Coward
Jun 4, 2018
14,037
Work
No.

Why do we grossly overestimate the power of consoles every cycle?
 

Masoyama

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,648
New gen always eats up the latest CPU/GPU. Use whatever you have until like 2021 and then upgrade after the market has stabilized to the new consoles.
 

Spazerbeam

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,448
Florida
No, I still don't believe any console released next year will be any more powerful than even a RTX 2070 Ti anyway.
 

ApeEscaper

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,720
Bangladeshi
Really hope not. Just bought a RTX 2060 was fucking expensive all my little savings gone damn Nvidia. Being on most current Turing architecture should definitely help and little but weak Rtx hardware inside little more futurrproof
 

Mullet2000

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,896
Toronto
Anything 2060S and up in power is going to do very well. The new consoles aren't going to beat a 3700x/2080 spec'd machine, no way.

I think 1070 and below will start having an abrupt rough time with newer games in 2020, though.
 

Deleted member 7948

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,285
So is it safe to say that AMD's solution of real time RT puts the one in Turing to shame? Also the raw performance destroys every card under a 2080.
AMD has been behind Nvidia for years now, the fact that AMD doesn't have a raytracing solution available right now should tell you enough. And crytek's raytracing isn't more efficient than RTX.

Even then, you can just reduce resolution/graphical settings and keep using old cards.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Sounds like by "current PC GPUs" you mean 1080ti and lower? They are already "obsolete" if you want to play games at 4k/Ultra/60fps. Or high end VR games. If you are fine with 1080p and don't play high end VR games, a 1080ti will still be great for some time. (note: it's unlikely Half Life Alyx will count as a high end VR game in this instance, Valve makes very well optimized games, and have created some very well optimized VR code in the past. I'm talking more like Hellblade VR).

In regards to ray tracing, it's neat sure, but the Hellblade II trailer didn't show anything obvious that couldn't be done without it. Screen-space reflections could work with the puddle reflections they showed.
 

Edgar

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,180
yeah , new consoles gonna have the power of 2080ti and i9 9900k with fastest ssd nvme available and its gonna have cutting edge cooling solution while at the sime time costing 500$.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 11276

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,223
i really don't see how Microsoft and Sony aren't going to be taking a sizable loss on each console even at $499, regardless how good their relationship with AMD is
I also think it's unrealistic, but look in the next gen console thread, we have heard multiple insiders saying that its 12 TFLOPs.
 

FlintSpace

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,817
I think so yes, next gen seems to be looking powerful than previous gen jump.

Buying that laptop for CP2077 was a mistake. :(
 

shinobi602

Verified
Oct 24, 2017
8,325
I mean, even an RTX 2080 can't run RDR2 today at 4K/60...

You'll be fine with a 2060/2070/2080 if you're not aiming to run everything at 4K/60 throughout all of next gen.
 

Komo

Info Analyst
Verified
Jan 3, 2019
7,110
Literally all "in-engine" these games won't look like this, and will most likely run perfectly fine on PC>
 

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,574
Definitely not. My GF still games on a fuckin 760 and that's fine. Hell I plan on getting at least another year out of my 980.
 

Dest

Has seen more 10s than EA ever will
Coward
Jun 4, 2018
14,037
Work
But 12 TFLOPs of Navi is basically confirmed now? And that truly is in the league of a 2080.
Can we stop throwing around the term FLOPS. Yes, it's a unit of measurement in computing power sure but obviously companies are flinging around numbers with absolutely nothing to show for it otherwise Stadia would be putting on a better show than it is currently. There's a lot more to a GPU than some burger flips.
 

z1ggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,187
Argentina
Every gen starts catching up or going a bit forward (except for PS4/X1) but after 1 or 2 years PC starts outperforming them again.
 

keidash

Member
Jan 31, 2018
287
I don't think we'll have an RDNA2 gpu with 12 TFlops this gen, maybe a gpu than runs like a 12 TFLOPS CGN gpu (around 9-10 RDNA TFlops).
 

Deleted member 47654

user requested account closure
Banned
Sep 10, 2018
2,612
No, you will still play Next gen games at 1440p, 1080p or 4K in medium without problems.
Why is this so hard to understand?
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,888
No.

Why do we grossly overestimate the power of consoles every cycle?
Can we stop throwing around the term FLOPS. Yes, it's a unit of measurement in computing power sure but obviously companies are flinging around numbers with absolutely nothing to show for it otherwise Stadia would be putting on a better show than it is currently. There's a lot more to a GPU than some burger flips.

All of these.
 

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,930
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
Ok, so after the Xbox series X announcement, I'm pretty worried about any PC GPU that is below a RTX 2080.

We've seen a Hellblade 2 trailer that assumingly sports full ray tracing while also running at 4K and frankly, puts out every other game there is to shame. We also saw a PS5 title that supports full ray traced reflections AND runs at 4K60, while, and that is the important part, current games like Shadow of The Tomb Raider, BF5, Metro and Control look much worse than that and also take a deep hit in performance with RTX on (even if its just reflections like in the PS5 title). And those, with RTX on, can't be done at native 4K60 even on a 2080TI even though they are much simpler games and use less RT techniques.


Furthermore, leaked specs according to insiders, are 12 RDNA2 TFLOPs, which puts them in a league between RTX 2080 and RTX 2080Ti which is just crazy.

So is it safe to say that AMD's solution of real time RT puts the one in Turing to shame? Also the raw performance destroys every card under a 2080.

Sure, Turing also supports VRS and Mesh Shaders which could improve performance more, but is that really enough to catch up with the consoles?

Or maybe Microsoft and AMD found a way to drastically improve Raytracing performance in DXR and Nvidia will further accelerate that with RT cores, so having RT performance on par with RDNA2 or even better? I mean there is also Crytek's version of RT which is much more efficient than RTX and runs even without RT cores, so maybe it's more like that but with dedicated hardware next gen?



What do you think?
You should spend some time informing yourself about these things. The Crytek verison of RT is not at all more performant/efficent/ or even as good looking as DXR enabled RT reflections - it is extremely limited and runs better on Turing than RDNA (even though it is not using hardware RT which Turing has).
There is no evidence that AMDs RT implementation is somehow superior to NVs.

The hellblade 2 trailer... I have quite a lot to say about it - but using something titled just "in-engine" that is 24 fps at 70% or so of 4K resolution as the representation of next gen graphics even though it has yet to be even proven as being real time running on a next gen console is not exactly wise.

Every generation this happens... PC GPU owners will of course be fine.
 

Dest

Has seen more 10s than EA ever will
Coward
Jun 4, 2018
14,037
Work
To add to that I don't know why anyone would hype up a AMD GPU. People should really keep their expectations low just knowing that alone.
No idea fam. AMD has been doing well on the CPU side of things but they haven't had a GPU that's wowed me. Sure, NVIDIA is more expensive but at least there's something that puts them out in the lead. I feel AMD is getting there, though.

But a current/slightly more current AMD card that's in a small box that's power and air deprived isn't going to give us the numbers that everyone wants to see and isn't going to give us 8K. We'll see 8K output for video, maybe. I'd like to be proven wrong on these boxes, and I'd like to see something that blows my PC out of the water but the chances of that happening are some of the slimmest I've ever seen.
 

Kromeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,828
Can we stop throwing around the term FLOPS. Yes, it's a unit of measurement in computing power sure but obviously companies are flinging around numbers with absolutely nothing to show for it otherwise Stadia would be putting on a better show than it is currently. There's a lot more to a GPU than some burger flips.

the xbox x thread was full of people stating the next gen consoles were going to outperform any gaming PC that doesn't have a 2080Ti and 9900K in, it's no surprise people seem to be thinking that
 

CreepingFear

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,766
For argument's sake, let's say yes. The beauty about the PC is that you can just swap the GPU out for an upgrade. You can't do that yet on the console. That OG PS4 and Xbox One are looking very old in the the tooth. They would be even worse if Sony and Microsoft never released the Pro and X.
 

LavaBadger

Member
Nov 14, 2017
4,986
Consoles are going to take a big step forward, and people with GPUs currently beating existing consoles (Like my 1080) may find themselves behind on GPU power. That's to be expected. And the GPU power of a console may well be an excellent deal, especially comparative to the absolutely nonsensical ballooning of GPU prices in the last couple years.

But many people are grossly overestimating what to expect from consoles next gen. 4k/60? Some games sure. With with ultra settings and full RTX support? Highly doubt it. We're going to be looking at a lot of "up to 4k" or "reconstructed 4k, and a lot of 30fps too. And all of that will still be a great upgrade over the current gen. It's merely the reality of how closed box systems (and the people who develop for them) work.

There's always going to be better PC parts. I for one hope the console step up means more competitive GPU prices in the PC space.
 

Altair

Member
Jan 11, 2018
7,901
No. People still get by with a 970. Current GPUs will be just fine for next gen games.
 

Roukira

Member
Dec 1, 2018
606
France, Paris
I have a RX 570 and I'm planning to upgrade next year with Ampere or Navi 2 depending on what's best for me. I'm thinking of keeping that GPU for atleast 4-5 years so I'll go for something like RTX 3070 in term of performance.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,078
You should spend some time informing yourself about these things. The Crytek verison of RT is not at all more performant/efficent/ or even as good looking as DXR enabled RT reflections - it is extremely limited and runs better on Turing than RDNA (even though it is not using hardware RT which Turing has).
There is no evidence that AMDs RT implementation is somehow superior to NVs.

The hellblade 2 trailer... I have quite a lot to say about it - but using something titled just "in-engine" that is 24 fps at 70% or so of 4K resolution as the representation of next gen graphics even though it has yet to be even proven as being real time running on a next gen console is not exactly wise.

Every generation this happens... PC GPU owners will of course be fine.
But dont you know, this generation will be different!
ITT: I am not worried about my 2070, I expect it to work for my normal workload for at least 5 more years.
 

freshVeggie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
272
Duh. Just look like how things have gone in past console generations.
Did you already forget the masses of PC gamers throwing their rigs out the window when PS4 & Xbox One launched?
 

Rosenkrantz

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,917
I really doubt it, mid-range GPU owners might tone down their settings, but high-end stuff will be just fine. We also don't know specs for PS5, if it's only marginally better than X1X then it won't really matter how powerful XSX is, devs still be making games with the weakest hardware in mind.
 

Mr. Poolman

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,975
If the high-end GPUs are outclassed by a console next generation (very unlilkely, 4K60fps is a pipe dream), they will be outclassed for a very short time frame.
PCs always reign.
 

LavaBadger

Member
Nov 14, 2017
4,986
I really doubt it, mid-range GPU owners might tone down their settings, but high-end stuff will be just fine. We also don't know specs for PS5, if it's only marginally better than X1X then it won't really matter how powerful XSX is, devs still be making games with the weakest hardware in mind.

PS5? Do you mean Lockhart? What rumor suggests the PS5 is only marginally better than the X1X?
 

Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
As per usual, AMD flop < Nvidia flop for gaming performance, flops are a terrible benchmark for power since there's always some overhead that's not included in the calculation, and don't assume that progress will never be made.
 

Windu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,617
You will probably upgrade your cpu first, most people probably haven't needed to upgrade it in a long time.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,078
I just wanna point out that next-gen GPUs will be based on off-the-shelf AMD GPUs that already have an established manufacturing process (with some extra bows and whistles). This is not the Cell era where console manufacturer try doing their weird and quirky architectures.
 

Duxxy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,680
USA
I'm still really skeptical about these specs. Sony and Microsoft were, at worst, breaking even on consoles this generation. It's hard to believe they're willing to lose hundreds of dollars on each system sold again.
 

Elven_Star

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,953
I plan to use my 1070 for 1080p60 gaming forever. I'm kinda glad console makers went for 4K this gen. It means my card will be viable for a long time at 1080p. As for raytracing, I have yet to see a single game or even trailer which would convince me to buy a new gfx card just for RT.
 

Orioto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,716
Paris
You should spend some time informing yourself about these things. The Crytek verison of RT is not at all more performant/efficent/ or even as good looking as DXR enabled RT reflections - it is extremely limited and runs better on Turing than RDNA (even though it is not using hardware RT which Turing has).
There is no evidence that AMDs RT implementation is somehow superior to NVs.

The hellblade 2 trailer... I have quite a lot to say about it - but using something titled just "in-engine" that is 24 fps at 70% or so of 4K resolution as the representation of next gen graphics even though it has yet to be even proven as being real time running on a next gen console is not exactly wise.

Every generation this happens... PC GPU owners will of course be fine.

I didn't find the video on the youtube page where you discuss the trailer in details, is there one yet ?
 

Mecha Meister

Next-Gen Guru
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,801
United Kingdom
lol, we know nothing about AMD's ray tracing capabilities.
Jumping to conclusions based on what little information we have isn't a good idea to say the least.

Games have scalability options, choose your settings and resolution.
 

ShapeDePapa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,936
My RX480 won't probably fare very well with next gen games lol. For GPUs that released in the last couple of years I don't think they'll be in troubles.