Will Bluepoint Games remake The Legend of Dragoon?

[Kaah]

THAT'S a lie, initial JP sales on that game were awful. Demon's souls was a sleeper hit in JP, selling about 30k copies initially and only 160k copies by the end of the year. The JP/Asian version of Demon's was also MUCH worse than the EU/US version, as it had a number of (once again) frustrating, gamebreaking bugs that were included on disc for the US.

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No, the hype was real right when the game was released in Japan it's why the US release was so anticipated, and I remember that perfectly for one very good reason : it's the only game in my entire life that I imported from Asia (the HK version had english text) because the word of mouth was ridiculously good.
Also original impressions from western press were awful. The only reason Demon's Souls scored so well in US and Europe is because of the 6 months hype from Japan and import.

You think the game was so hyped and popular that Sony decided it was too hype and said "Altus, you handle this hot new game!"

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I don't know, maybe because Yoshida hated the game he played and Sony didn't believed this kind of game had a chance to find audience outside Japan ?

 

[PlanetSmasher]

Developing a new game from scratch is basically how Bluepoint already operates, and FF7R stretching over multiple games was a choice not a requirement. The point is that Bluepoint would have the freedom to expand, re-work, and remove segments as they see fit. This would let them flex their creative side more and start stepping into developing original titles.

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This would be a very different kind of "developing a new game from scratch" than Bluepoint's "we're gonna rebuild the exact same game, but with newer Legos" style.

Everything would need to be redone at an elemental level. Towns, dungeons, combat system, storytelling, characters, music, boss fights. Nothing could just be transported over. You'd literally need to completely redesign the entire experience in every possible way. It would absolutely have to be a FFVIIR-caliber undertaking rather than Bluepoint's standard MO.

You're not going to see a PS1 RPG with like 60 hours of content getting remade as a AAA PS5 game without being completely and utterly reimagined in every possible way to the point at which it's functionally an entirely different game.

No, the hype was real right when the game was released in Japan it's why the US release was so anticipated, and I remember that perfectly for one very good reason : it's the only game in my entire life that I imported from Asia (the HK version had english text) because the word of mouth was ridiculously good.
Also original impressions from western press were awful. The only reason Demon's Souls scored so well in US and Europe is because of the 6 months hype from Japan and import.

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The part about the Western hype is correct. DeS' hype in the West really only picked up when a bunch of us in the press got our hands on the HK version and started covering it - before that point, the Western press made fun of the game constantly for looking janky and having (at the time) inferior graphics to other major PS3 exclusive games.

If it weren't for a bunch of weirdos (myself included) importing the game and starting to write about how weird and unique it was, the hype never would've really built in the West at all.

 

[Manmademan]

No, the hype was real right when the game was released in Japan it's why the US release was so anticipated, and I remember that perfectly for one very good reason : it's the only game in my entire life that I imported from Asia (the HK version had english text) because the word of mouth was ridiculously good.
Also original impressions from western press were awful. The only reason Demon's Souls scored so well in US and Europe is because of the 6 months hype from Japan and import.

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wrong.

"You can't possibly understand its approach in five minutes. Because of the action-RPG style people simply expected it to handle in the same way as Sengoku Musou When it didn't, they were left disoriented. This feeling was compounded by the fact that the controls aren't based on any familiar scheme. Only a handful of players finished the demo. Some even put the controller down at the character-creation screen, which was particularly disheartening."

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Miyazaki agrees: "At a certain point, we realised it was just too difficult to explain why we needed servers in our singleplayer game. We tried everything, even using pictures. But the core concepts are so unusual it's extremely difficult to explain. You need to experience the game to appreciate the approach. It has none of the great graphics that are shown today on high-spec games, no gigantic combos with awesome special effects. Demon's Souls' greatest asset is the experience, and that can only be experienced to be appreciated."

Perhaps for this reason, Demon's Souls failed to perform in the way the team had hoped at release. "Initially, sales were poor," says Kajii. "We sold between 20-30,000 copies in Japan the first week and, as the first feedback we had during development from TGS was not so good, we were really disappointed and worried that the project was going to fail. As a developer you immediately slip into a new mode of thinking, wondering if things would have been different if we'd focused on different features. It was a hard time."

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Interview: Demon's Souls - Page 2 of 2 | Features | Edge Online

It’s hard to imagine a game more at odds with gaming’s current fashions than Demon’s Souls. As developers fall over themselves to reward players for the emptiest of achievements, From Software’s stern demand that players learn, understand and master its game’s systems, or else face severe...

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These are direct quotes from Miyazaki and Kajii about JP reception to the game in 2010, to Edge Magazine. TGS Reception was straight up bad from players and press, and first week sales were considered a failure. It wasn't until sales broke 100k copies later in the year- by which time it was already on sale in the US- that their opinion on JP reception changed.

Any idea that Demon's was some kind of well received hit coming out of JP is dead wrong revisionist history.

 

[King Kingo]

Developing a new game from scratch is basically how Bluepoint already operates, and FF7R stretching over multiple games was a choice not a requirement. The point is that Bluepoint would have the freedom to expand, re-work, and remove segments as they see fit. This would let them flex their creative side more and start stepping into developing original titles.

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Exactly. If they can pull off a reimagining then that's their seal of approval to transition to an original IP.

You think the game was so hyped and popular that Sony decided it was too hype and said "Altus, you handle this hot new game!"

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Nowadays, Atlus USA barely gets credited for localising Demon's Souls. They're the reason why the west was able to experience the game in the first place.

 

[AuthenticM]

Everything would need to be redone at an elemental level. Towns, dungeons, combat system, storytelling, characters, music, boss fights. Nothing could just be transported over. You'd literally need to completely redesign the entire experience in every possible way.

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Only if they get rid of fixed camera angles. I don't see why they'd have to unless they want to redesign the systems and mechanics of the game, which is not something that fans of the game would want anyway. At least, not me lol. Anyone asking for more than that of a remake of TLoD is crazy.

 

[Manmademan]

You think the game was so hyped and popular that Sony decided it was too hype and said "Altus, you handle this hot new game!"

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Exactly. complete lunacy to try to float this argument. Sony passed it to Atlus because the game wasn't selling and initial reception was bad.

 

[SoneaB]

I can't see it happening. But.. if you told me that they would collaborate with Japan Studio on a JRPG and handle all of the tech/production while they handled the story/design. That would get my attention.

 

[Hecht]

There is no way. LoD needs far more than a graphical overhaul, it needs to be completely rebuilt and possibly actually made into a decent game. May as well make a new game instead.

 

[Kaah]

Any idea that Demon's was some kind of well received hit coming out of JP is dead wrong revisionist history.

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Again bullshit, you're using the sales (40k first week on PS3 for a new IP isn't bad btw) as an argument that the reception in Japan was poor when I'm talking about how the word of mouth IN JAPAN had a huge effect on the pre-release hype of the game in US. Again it's the only game I imported in my life, I remember spending my 80€ on some obscure japanese game and the reasons why I did that. Initial reception was bad because the press missed the point, but the hype from players was real immediatly after the japan release.
Also this is what Yoshida had to say about not publishing the game

But still, even after a few hours with the final product, Yoshida remarked that he just wasn't able to see the value in the game. "For my personal experience with Demon's Souls, when it was close to final I spent close to two hours playing it and after two hours I was still standing at the beginning at the game. I said, 'This is crap. This is an unbelievably bad game.' So I put it aside." In the end, Yoshida admitted Sony "dropped the ball from a publishing standpoint" and was not able to "see the value of the product."

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[Manmademan]

Again bullshit, you're using the sales (40k first week on PS3 for a new IP isn't bad btw) as an argument that the reception in Japan was poor when I'm talking about how the word of mouth IN JAPAN had a huge effect on the pre-release hype of the game in US. Again it's the only game I imported in my life, I remember spending my 80€ on some obscure japanese game and the reasons why I did that. Initial reception was bad because the press missed the point, but the hype from players was real.
Also this is what Yoshida had to say about not publishing the game

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I have a direct quote from the developers made to Edge Magazine in 2010 that sales were considered a failure and the team had a hard time with it. Additional comments within that article indicate that perception did not change until after the game crossed 100k copies, which took months to do.

Therefore, Any anecdotal evidence you have from importing it is meaningless because the developers directly contradict you.

we also have the sales from Dark Souls first week two years later which is NINE TIMES HIGHER than Demon's first week and exceeds the first year total of Demon's souls by almost 100%. Any assertion that 30k was "fine" for a first week when Dark did 280k is ridiculous.

 

[Bedameister]

I think if BP is to make more of these remakes for Sony that they would have to make games that appear to a wider audience. They're part of Sony's power houses now, playing with the big boys.
However I feel like there aren't any Sony IPs left they can use they're model of reworking the graphics while letting gameplay untuched might still work.
So I have no idea what they'll be working on next.

 

[Juraash]

I liked this game a lot when it came out. On a replay a couple of years ago...I realized that it isn't so hot. I'm sure Bluepoint could really do some work with it, but I'm just as sure that it might not be worth it. It's probably best just left as a cult classic for PS1.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

There is no way. LoD needs far more than a graphical overhaul, it needs to be completely rebuilt and possibly actually made into a decent game. May as well make a new game instead.

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Pretty much. The amount of effort a developer would need to put in to make LoD into a good game would be better served on an entirely new project.

 

[Alek]

I think it would be a waste of there time. They would be making a remake for like 1,000 people who remember the original game.

Even among PS1 titles there are better games they could revive. I'd take an Alundra remake over Legend of Dragoon.

 

[Doc Kelso]

Pretty much. The amount of effort a developer would need to put in to make LoD into a good game would be better served on an entirely new project.

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Agreed. LoD was novel for a PS1 RPG--and one of my favorites--but that doesn't mean it's a good game. Put the energy into a new RPG IP and you'd likely have something far more interesting.

 

[Necron]

Good question. I'd like it personally but... I'm one of the few.

No idea what Sony IP they could do next either though. Might as well remaster Bloodborne in between things ;)

 

[Wrexis]

There is 0 chance in hell.

Legend of Dragoon is an unknown title now that will fade into history.
I mean even back in the day it was known as Sony's FF7 wannabe title.

 

[Voke]

The only Ps1 JRPG bluepoint should ever consider is XENOGEARS

 

[black070]

How about, rather than a remake, they reboot it entirely like what Playground is doing with Fable ?

 

[Spedfrom]

They can always remake The Legend of Dragoon but build it up as a reboot. They get to make whatever changes to story and gameplay they need or want, thus turning it into a good game (never played the original one, mind you) and Sony gets to market it as a whole new game. Market it properly and it might achieve large numbers of sales.

It could be sort of a transition project for Bluepoint. A string of remakes faithful to the originals, a reboot of an old and largely forgotten IP that turns it into something almost new and finally they would then go on to make a fully new IP.

 

[cecilpaladin32]

This game has always been so divisive since the beginning...I got asked for a birthday way back to pick a game I wanted...I almost picked Legend of Dragoon, but due to the mixed reviews, wound up getting Vagrant Story instead. Never wound up playing LoD but have always been a bit curious to see what the game is all about for myself. Iirc, Bluepoint stated that they were working on two projects, one of which obviously was revealed to be Demon Souls. Wonder what the other one will be...

 

[Deleted member 46493]

Why are people obsessed with this absolutely mediocre PS1 rpg.

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I have no idea either. It's just all right.

It's one of those games that people bring up when they ask about "classic" JRPGs that aren't FF and through word of mouth it is somehow popular online currently.

 

[Shades]

Tomba! or bust

 

[noinspiration]

How much business do traditional JRPGs do on consoles these days? Based on the fact that so few of them get made, I'm guessing not much relative to the cost to make one of acceptable quality. Unless it's Final Fantasy, Persona, or lately Dragon Quest, and Legend of Dragoon is nowhere near those three. So if they keep the game relatively the same they're probably asking for trouble, and if they overhaul it enough to possibly make it more popular then they might as well make a new game. Which they've expressed a desire to do anyway. Also, if they did try to change anything they'd have to work in a style of game that to my knowledge they've never worked in before.

All of this is irrespective of the quality of the game, which, yeah, mediocre is a good word for it. I'm having trouble thinking of a less natural fit, to be honest.

 

[AuthenticM]

How about, rather than a remake, they reboot it entirely like what Playground is doing with Fable ?

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The Legend of Dragoon isn't popular enough to justify such an endeavour. It only got one game whose sequel was cancelled early in development, while Fable got multiple games that sold millions of copies each.

Wild Arms would be a better fit for such a project, honestly.

 

[Kaah]

I have a direct quote from the developers made to Edge Magazine in 2010 that sales were considered a failure and the team had a hard time with it. Additional comments within that article indicate that perception did not change until after the game crossed 100k copies, which took months to do.

Any anecdotal evidence you have from importing it is meaningless.

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You're quote is about nothing more than the first week sales.
Literally the first sentence after your quote

However, it wasn't long before word of mouth began to turn the game's fortunes around. "The contrast between how we felt around the time of release and when the game broke the 100,000 sales mark was gigantic,"

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It's what I'm talking about in my posts and you keep ignoring it. Word of mouth from Japan and import discussion for Demon's Souls was huge, the first week sales about a new ip on PS3 after receiving a bunch of mediocre previews is meaningless when we are talking about the hype and discussion around the game. The US pre-release hype for Demon's Souls was huge for a reason.

 

[Enduin]

I would love a Dragoon remake, but far more than the very faithful take that Bluepoint has done up till now.

Dragoon is a great game, but with many flaws and shortcomings. It needs a major shake up in a lot of areas, mostly the writing, character and story development. The setting, music, style and especially Additions combat system are fantastic, but it needs more than just a modern graphical rendition to really warrant a remake.

 

[Hydes]

No thanks! ICO please

 

[baberunisei]

Only after Wild ARMs

 

[MnM]

It would be interesting at the very least.

 

[noinspiration]

It's essentially the people who buy Dr. Thunder at Wal Mart and actually think it is better than Dr Pepper

Lavitz dying is a soft Aerith death

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It's Aerith crossed with the guy from Beerfest

 

[SkyOdin]

Considering that Sony has completely abandoned all of their classic RPG franchises from the PS1 and PS2 days, I don't see it happening. If Sony was interested in having more RPGs in their line-up, they could just hire Media Vision to make a new mid-budget Wild Arms game or such. But Sony has completely changed focus from those days, so I don't see a game like Legend of Dragoon coming back.

 

[noinspiration]

I don't think a straight remake of MGS1 (PS1 gameplay and PS5 graphics) would make sense at all. MGS1 plays terribly now. It's a relic. You don't just put makeup on a PS1 game and release it for $70 on the PS5.

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This is true, but taking the gameplay from Phantom Pain and remaking the maps for MGS1 to work with that gameplay is still a less extensive overhaul than Legend of Dragoon would need.

 

[King Kingo]

After posting this possibility, I'm surprised to see so many people against this idea. Though I have to admit, some of the reasons why are justified.

 

[Kain]

its a bad game that sold like shit in Japan

no chance

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I don't like you.

But yeah no chance in hell. If Sony still made portables maybe, but for a big console? Hah.

Now I still don't know what the fuck is the deal with Sony Europe and not releasing the game on the PSN. Like come the fuck on.

 

[daninthemix]

A handful of old nostalgics doesn't equal a viable market for triple-A game production.

 

[Vilam]

No. They remake popular, well known games.

 

[Deleted member 68874]

Let this dream die folks.

 

[TheRealTalker]

Developing a new game from scratch is basically how Bluepoint already operates, and FF7R stretching over multiple games was a choice not a requirement. The point is that Bluepoint would have the freedom to expand, re-work, and remove segments as they see fit. This would let them flex their creative side more and start stepping into developing original titles.

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Yup something like this polishes ones skill to do even better with a new I.P later on.

 

[Garrod Ran]

there's nowhere to go but up with legend of dragoon but i don't think there's a market for it today

 

[naitosan]

They probably won't remake anything that's not owned by Sony especially if rumors' true about Sony buying Bluepoint.

Someone mentioned God of War trilogy, that'd be pretty awesome, good way to re-introduce to new gamers. Or work on new IP.

 

[Niosai]

Whew, lots of hot takes in this thread.

If Sony wants a real JRPG on the market that already has a cult following, I think it'd be a great idea. Do I think it's realistic? Maybe not. Sony doesn't seem too interested in games like that anymore. LoD is one of my favorite childhood games, so I'd love for it to be a thing. Just not getting my hopes up.

 

[Alexander89]

Only Metal Gear Solid makes sense

or a new ip

 

[AIan]

Bluepoint only seems to touch games that were highly regarded at the time. Huge classics, and the like.

 

[Nakenorm]

It's gonna be either God of War or Metal Gear Solid. I feel it in my rusty old bones.

 

[black070]

I think a Bloodborne remaster is up next in the vein of the Uncharted Trilogy/Gravity Rush.

 

[MrWindUpBird]

The Legend of Dragoon is the definition of a cult hit. Fairly middling reception when it came out, but went on to be a continuous top seller when released on the PS3 PSN for literal years but yet we've got people asking for an Alundra and MGS remake of all things? Those games don't need them. They still play great to this day and one of them already got a remake. Some of the takes in here are about as tryhard as they come. We should strive for remakes to be of games that actually need it. Games that had rough edges that could be easily rectified with the remake.

 

[Akainu]

Man some of ya'll really hate this game. I remember playing the demo every time i went to sears for clothes shopping as a kid at the time. Then i got the game and I enjoyed the crap out of it. I think it was the only game at the time that keep you on your toes when attacking.

 

[Megawarrior]

I want this so badly but I have no hope.

 

[Lego]

I don't think it would sell very well, personally.