The unifi APs come with poe injectors, so you don't need a poe switch, unless you want one.
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Wi-Fi Mesh vs Traditional Router - Help
- Thread starter piratepwnsninja
- Start date
damn, now i feel a bit bad that i made my aunt and grandparents buy asus ac88s. they did work as intended but for the same money buying the 3 pack google wifi would had done a better job.
I believe that all the UniFi APs, except for the UAP-AC-SHD or the five-packs, are supplied with a PoE injector in the box.
It's a tiny box that takes Ethernet and power in, and sends PoE out the other end. Think of it like a power brick, but it saves you from having to run a power cable directly into the AP.
The nice thing is that if you have a PoE network switch (though most home users won't) you don't need an injector and can simply connect up an Ethernet cable between the switch and the AP.
Looks are always subjective. You can switch the LED off, and the UAP-AC-LITE essentially just looks like a modern smoke alarm at that point (though you're not required to mount it on the ceiling). They have some nice in-wall units too - though I think they're only meant for supplying WiFi to that room.
Either is far better than the insect-inspired gaming router aesthetic that has as many visible antennas as possible, in my opinion.
Any modern access point should support seamless handoff. Ubiquiti have semi-proprietary "fast roaming" technology that should work with any client, and full 802.11r/v/k support is coming later for clients which support it.
As I explained on the previous page, you don't want a bridge unless you have no other options.
You want a wired-in access point if you can. You should be able to use any of these with your own modem/router. The only thing is that I wouldn't expect hand-off to work seamlessly if you keep the router's own wireless connection enabled.
It's not a bad system, but my recommendation would still be wired-in APs if at all possible
Mesh networking is expensive and won't perform as well - no matter who does it. It's just how that technology works.
And if each of your "mesh" units is wired in, it's essentially not acting like a mesh networking setup. I suppose it's one way to guarantee seamless hand-off between APs though.
How modern? The access point I had was no more than 2 years old.
Well 'modern' as in: supporting the current wireless standards for it or having their own system for it. Just because something is new does not necessarily mean that it does.
As I said, buying a mesh setup may be one way of guaranteeing that if you aren't sure - but the Ubiquiti hardware should.
I'm not saying that people are wrong for having bought a mesh system if they're happy with it, but it's not what I would recommend to someone buying new gear if they have the ability to hard-wire in APs (with my recommendation specifically being Ubiquiti APs).
Yeah, my issue is it's a modem router combo issued by Frontier. Lats time I messed with it to disable the wireless and connect my Netgear Nighthawk...things didn't go so well.
Well it was very modern at the time and certainly not a random cheap access point. It just never did the handoff very well and devices would hold on to that signal. So that's why I was wondering how long ago was this readily available and common.
Why is logging in with your Gmail (i.e. Google Account) a problem for you? Just curious what your concern is. Are you worried about the security, or ...?
(Note: I don't use Google Wifi, so I don't know the specifics of its setup, which is why I'm asking).
Connecting two routers together is more complicated because there are other changes you need to make, like ensuring that you only have one DHCP server running on the network for example.
Some ISP-provided routers have an option to switch over to "modem mode" which disables everything except the modem functionality so that all you need to do is connect it to the WAN port of your other router.
Connecting an access point (or mesh system) to a router should be easy, as you don't need to deal with any of that.
Didn't realize Amplifi came with PoE injectors. Had I known I probably would have gone with them instead. I couldn't get a gauge when trying to research if they were included or extra cost
The one caveat with this is Fios and other MoCA set ups. They need the router in order to communicate back for guide data and DVR. You can trick them into releasing but it can be a bit of a headache. Easier to just turn your secondary devices into AP mode and not worry about possible double NAT headaches.
The one caveat with this is Fios and other MoCA set ups. They need the router in order to communicate back for guide data and DVR. You can trick them into releasing but it can be a bit of a headache. Easier to just turn your secondary devices into AP mode and not worry about possible double NAT headaches.
Ubiquiti buyers be warned, there are retail models of the Unifi AP-AC-PROs that do not come with PoE injectors. They're usually sold as AP-AC-PRO-E units, and cost around $40-$50 less than the standard PRO.
And a second warning, older versions of the LITE, LR, PRO and EDU did not support proper PoE, but instead used a specialized 24V passive PoE. Basically means that standard PoE injectors and switches wouldn't properly power those devices, you needed to use special Ubiquiti equipment. That has changed in current hardware versions, but just be careful if you pick up one used or secondhand.
And a second warning, older versions of the LITE, LR, PRO and EDU did not support proper PoE, but instead used a specialized 24V passive PoE. Basically means that standard PoE injectors and switches wouldn't properly power those devices, you needed to use special Ubiquiti equipment. That has changed in current hardware versions, but just be careful if you pick up one used or secondhand.
Huh... didn't know that. It's been a while since I've worked with them. I'll need to give them another look.
Mainly I like a dedicated un/pw so my wife and I can both log in(or other people if I trust them). I honestly don't know if I can add more users or not and I'm not ever giving my gmail creds to someone.
This is probably why I was getting all confused. It was really hard to decipher what was what and most forum stuff just had people pushing PoE switched over injectors.
+1 for Ubiquiti equipment, +1 million for real mesh. Don't forget that your router can have as much impact on your busy network as your wi-fi gear for internet related things.
Shameless link to my tech post, hopefully it has some useful info for ya
https://www.resetera.com/threads/the-underbelly-–-your-hardware-software-and-accessories-behind-the-scenes.36523/
Shameless link to my tech post, hopefully it has some useful info for ya
https://www.resetera.com/threads/the-underbelly-–-your-hardware-software-and-accessories-behind-the-scenes.36523/
There are multiple ways to setup.
Optimally, you have a hardwire into each WAP, and you gain the ability to roam between all the waps using the same SSID and not dropping connections.
You can also have WAPs that are only connected to other WAPs. This is suboptimal as each time you do this you are essentially cutting your available bandwidth in, lets say half (it varies).
In each instance, you only need 2 devices, and at least one needs to be hardwired.
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The bandwidth is a fraction of one over the number of devices including the last link in the chain and the hardwired point.
Dont some WAPs have ways to mitigate the hit a bit now? I can't really recall, only remember reading something vaguely and I never do setups like that so I havent had to look.
EDIT: your point is more how I should have explained it =)
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Ubiquiti on any thing other than the pro line had issues with zero handoff up until about 18 months ago in their firmwares. You also need to tune signal strength when setting them up. Most people just set it to auto, which is actually the max signal strength setting which makes it impossible for the AP's to determine the closet device. The concept is actually the same with mesh as well, it's just that most mesh devices just work out of the box as they're designed for consumers where as unifi is enterprise grade.
Yes. In the case of the Orbi they use a separate 4x4 80MHz backhaul between the routers. But that's a specific and proprietary two radio system, not any part of a standard.
OP
OP
So I'm trying to wrap my head around the Ubiquiti stuff, and I think I at least partially understand it. Essentially, you're purchasing all the parts of a "everything in one" router in multiple pieces, so that it ends up looking something like this, at least at the beginning of the chain.
Modem (probably put into bridge mode if its a modem/router combo) -> Ubiquiti Security Gateway -> Ubiquiti switch with PoE -> Ubiquiti Security Key
That's the basic setup, right? Then from there, you add WAPs or Mesh links at your own leisure?
Question on this, since I *think* I have it right, would it be possible to do a line from the switch to a gigabit powerline adapter (if the lines support that, of course), and hook the WAP up to the other adapter somewhere else in the house?
Modem (probably put into bridge mode if its a modem/router combo) -> Ubiquiti Security Gateway -> Ubiquiti switch with PoE -> Ubiquiti Security Key
That's the basic setup, right? Then from there, you add WAPs or Mesh links at your own leisure?
Question on this, since I *think* I have it right, would it be possible to do a line from the switch to a gigabit powerline adapter (if the lines support that, of course), and hook the WAP up to the other adapter somewhere else in the house?
You can go MODEM -> USG -> SWITCH -> (Edit: Cloudkey )+ [WAPs]
EDIT: Ooop, I take that back I dont think the USG does the wap management, you would want to add a cloudkey (i remember setting up a USG and being disappointed it did not have the management software builtin, iirc. I have been using EdgerouterXs and cloudkeys since, could be mistake at this point though)
All the latest waps come with poe injectors, but you can splurge for a PoE switch if you want (I usually dont bother for small installations)
You can in theory use a powerline adapter. TBH I have not looked into them much in like... 5 years, so maybe they are fast and flexible enough now.
I always run hardwire, even in my house. I use these for the runs, they look pretty good and hold a lot of cable.
Cable Management - Panduit ARC
- https://www.panduit.com/en/products...ts/cable-conduit-clamps-clips/arc68s6c14.html
- 1...10
- Easy to use, useful in homes and professional installations
- I am embarrassed how long it took me to find this product. But, I was looking for something that was screw mount, adjustable, and reusable, and these work great. I think the most I have some clamps holding is 5 ethernet cables and 2 12-gauge speaker wires
- they come in all kinds of colors, and are kinda pricey
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Worth pointing out - I've no idea how well it works, but Asus have their own in-house multi-router mesh style solution now, and the AC68U is on the compatibility list: https://www.asus.com/AiMesh/ No idea how well it performs - write-ups seem to be decent - but this'd be a way to use your existing router in a mesh-type setup, potentially.
I have a couple of Nighthawks running Advanced Tomato. Should I switch them to DDWRT?
Anyone happen to know if Advanced Tomato supports these sorts of features? I only installed it a couple of weeks ago and haven't really had time to sit down with all of the features and maximize my setup, but a mesh-like setup would be ideal for me.
Haven't used tomato in a while, but I assume you can still get linux packages? If you can no need.
Edit - Was wrong wanted to give easy link for what to do.
Tomato has grown it seems on the subject.
You don't need all of that. I would however make sure that if your linux is 3.18 it's running fq_codel as the qdisc and not pfifo. Cake is better but no clue on support.
GET SQM and tame that wan port bro.
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That's far more than a basic setup. You don't need any of this if you already have a router.
You can just add access points connected via Ethernet (or Powerline/MoCA adapters) - though you probably want to disable the router's own WiFi and replace it with an AP.
As far as I am aware - though I am not 100% certain because I do use one in my setup - the Cloud Key is only required if you want remote management, or want to expand your setup beyond just the access points.
My understanding is that you can now set up the APs directly via the mobile app, and they retain the settings.
The Security Gateway is if you want to replace your router's firewall and set up things like site-to-site VPNs.
For slower internet connections, the USG or the EdgeRouter hardware has very good QoS capabilities that can eliminate bufferbloat problems (bufferbloat is where you connection's latency goes up significantly when downloads are maxing out your connection) but the lower-end hardware is limited to something like 50Mb/s, the mid-range hardware ~250Mb/s, and you need the extremely expensive high-end gear for a gigabit connection.
EDIT:The USG and EdgeRouter hardware can work with gigabit connections when hardware offloading is enabled, but this disables some features like QoS.
I'm hoping they come out with a cheaper device that can handle gigabit speeds because the USG-XG-8 has many features that could be cut to reduce costs significantly (touchscreen display, and eight 10Gb ports).
The UniFi switches are if you want to use advanced features like VLANs or wish to power multiple access points without using the PoE injectors supplied in the box with the APs.
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To add to Pargon:
You can dramatically improve throughput on the mid-range EdgeRouters via proper configuration of hardware offloading. The ERLite-3 and ERPoE-5 jump from around 250Mb/s to the 800Mb/s range, ER-4 and ER-6P can hit 900Mb/s.
The Cloud Key is definitely not required, you really only need that if you require remote access/configuration to the setup. The PoE switches are also not really needed and VERY expensive, typical Amazon price for the 24-port UniFi Switch hovers around $400, whereas a good managed non-PoE gigabit switch will generally run around $150.
To give an idea of setup, I just redid my shop's internal network with Ubiquiti kit. Used to be cable modem to a cheapy Belkin router into an unmanaged switch. Now it's:
Cable Modem -> Edgerouter-4 -> TrendNet 24-port managed gigabit switch -> AP-AC-PRO
It's running four VLANs (internal, workbench, education, public) and 8 WLANs (2.4 and 5Ghz for each VLAN) like a champ.
You can dramatically improve throughput on the mid-range EdgeRouters via proper configuration of hardware offloading. The ERLite-3 and ERPoE-5 jump from around 250Mb/s to the 800Mb/s range, ER-4 and ER-6P can hit 900Mb/s.
The Cloud Key is definitely not required, you really only need that if you require remote access/configuration to the setup. The PoE switches are also not really needed and VERY expensive, typical Amazon price for the 24-port UniFi Switch hovers around $400, whereas a good managed non-PoE gigabit switch will generally run around $150.
To give an idea of setup, I just redid my shop's internal network with Ubiquiti kit. Used to be cable modem to a cheapy Belkin router into an unmanaged switch. Now it's:
Cable Modem -> Edgerouter-4 -> TrendNet 24-port managed gigabit switch -> AP-AC-PRO
It's running four VLANs (internal, workbench, education, public) and 8 WLANs (2.4 and 5Ghz for each VLAN) like a champ.
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So I'm moving soon as well, and my current router is old and I'm moving into a bigger space overall. What would you recommend for me to set up a mesh network starting from scratch. I've looked into Google WIFI and Orbi, but Google Wifi has the expected drop after reaching the extender, and Orbi is a little pricey.
Yes, they are not limited to ~50Mb or ~250Mb connections (depending on the model) if you enable hardware offloading, but features like QoS cannot use it - and that's probably the main reason a home user would want to replace their router with one, especially for gaming.
Thanks for the confirmation. I just didn't want to say it with any certainty, since I haven't tried setting up the APs without one.
1. Router that can take open source firmware mainly openwrt or dd-wrt. This is a pain but both sites list what is compatible and how. Make sure to check wifi support on anything you buy.
2. Make sure it's got ram both flash and for the os. 32MB on the flash at least 128MB for the OS.
3. Make sure the routers you use are of the same chipset or architecture from the vendor. I tend to use only atheros 9k and 10k chips or anything newer from marvell. These are the only debloted wifi chips for open source.
4. Get a strong CPU for SQM the less you have the less bandwidth you can shape. You won't pay as much as you would for a great I7 but this is where most of the hit you are seeing comes from and why.
My issue is nothing good is cheap and my power setup is more pricy than what you mentioned, didn't intend on it but I research bufferbloat and got a lot of unintended gear just for the sake of seeing how it could or would perform. You can buy a very strong main router and moderate router and do what I did. I list my main two routers and dead serious I haven't seen shit on the market with the firmware I mentioned that does better. What you pair it with is largely going to be a lotto as it is for me right now.
Some brands I like in the midrange. Always check the support tables at DD-WRTor OpenWRT
Tp-link
Dlink
Linksys
Asus
Netgear
Ubiquiti
Also thank you pargon for mentioning not to use offloading it's disasterous for gaming and doesn't work with SQM outside of Cake even then it's suggested to get rid of it when possible. Shame more people don't know how bad offloading is or other settings that happen to be enabled on nic or router.
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No problem you've helped me out so much in ARPGs its the least I can do.
You need your modem / router and unifi access points... That's it. The access points can be setup with controller software that runs on mac or pc. To power them you run the lan in to a power injector, then run the line out to the access point.
USG or PoE switches just clean up the install but they're not required. My setup consists of a router, a regular switch and a PoE switch which runs all my AP's and security cameras. USG or cloud key are handy if you're running complex routes or need to have your unifi controller running constantly (for say running a guest network that requires a login gateway).
You can run the controller software once to set up your network name and password, then never use it again if you want. Then the only difference between that and say a mesh network is instead of powering them through an outlet, you're doing it over ethernet with a power injector wherever your router may be.
I got sick of always unplugging my router because of overheating or whatever. Was happening every week at least, usually more often and this was with a well reviewed router (but was on the cheaper side at about $100).
Since WiFi is something I use on a constant basis (with Amazon echos and several smart plugs I probably have 15 or more thongs connected all the time) I decided to splurge and got the Orbi (with the main unit and one satellite). I bought it while in an apartment but I was moving to a house a few months later.
It's been fantastic for me. I don't need to worry about switching between 2.4 and 5ghz anymore since it does that automatically (amazing haven't had an issue with it at all), and the signal is strong throughout the house. The satellite's wifi speed is way better than the old wifi extender I use to use.
Since WiFi is something I use on a constant basis (with Amazon echos and several smart plugs I probably have 15 or more thongs connected all the time) I decided to splurge and got the Orbi (with the main unit and one satellite). I bought it while in an apartment but I was moving to a house a few months later.
It's been fantastic for me. I don't need to worry about switching between 2.4 and 5ghz anymore since it does that automatically (amazing haven't had an issue with it at all), and the signal is strong throughout the house. The satellite's wifi speed is way better than the old wifi extender I use to use.
I plan to move in a year or two to a purchased home. I am asking for the Orbi RBK50 for a temporary solution until I can buy a house and get it hard wired. I love my Ubiquiti Edge Router X. I also need to test out the pfSense router software. I figure that I need to use my CCNA skills and go insane with getting a 48 port managed switch for my purchased home. I am that insane person.
OP
OP
What would you recommend that can handle a gigabit connecting in place of the USG since I'll have a gigabit connection at my new home? I thought the USG-3 would be able to handle it OK based on this thread I found, but maybe not? https://community.ubnt.com/t5/UniFi...-USG-3-Gigabit-WAN-speed-results/td-p/1936042
you dont need a USG unless you want one. I ran my 24 port POE switch straight off my ATT modem for about 8 months before i bought my USG. I only bought my USG because i want to hook my lab into Azure site to site vpn.
Also you dont need the security key unless you want to access your stuff from outside your home. I just run the Unifi software on my server. And yes add APs, i started with one then got another for my back patio, added it in, provisioned it and it just works. I go inside, or outside or in the garage and i transfer APs without ever knowing it.
If you have hardware offloading enabled, I believe it will handle that connection just fine, but you cannot use some features when hardware offloading is enabled.
In theory you shouldn't need QoS support with a gigabit connection, but I've seen people say that it's unnecessary over 100Mb or so and that has not been my experience.
As long as we use routers with internal queues and memory buffers we will never resolve the issue.
Kleinrock predicted this and he designed a ton of networking we do today. My sincere belief is not using sqm/aqm on any link will lead to the issue at hand. Van Jacobson wanted aqm across the board and that was in 98. It took literally 20 years to get respectable usable aqm vs sfq, pie or red and the like.
Outside of firmware forums most showing me their bandwidth stats above 250Mbps can't pass bufferbloat tests.
Apologies if I should have just created my own thread, but this seemed to fit my topic pretty well
I currently have a Netgear R6700 in a 3 story townhouse, with the router on the second level. I've never really gotten satisfactory signal and speeds, and the 5ghz band has been taking a shit lately, and I'm always having to turn off wifi on my phone and switch to LTE because of poor streaming speeds, even though it's practically directly below my room.
Would it be worth it to get a SINGLE mesh router vs a more expensive traditional router? My place is about 1400 sq, but that's including my first floor which is mainly the garage and gym. I'm looking at the TP-Link Deco M5, which advertises 1400sqft range with just 1 device. A part of me wants the mesh so that I can build off of it when I buy a larger house, but realistically that is many years away and there would probably be better mesh tech by then.
Also keep in mind the TP-Link would cost me only about $60 for 1..I know great traditional routers would probably cost like 150+, at which point I could just get a full 3 pack of these TP-Links
I currently have a Netgear R6700 in a 3 story townhouse, with the router on the second level. I've never really gotten satisfactory signal and speeds, and the 5ghz band has been taking a shit lately, and I'm always having to turn off wifi on my phone and switch to LTE because of poor streaming speeds, even though it's practically directly below my room.
Would it be worth it to get a SINGLE mesh router vs a more expensive traditional router? My place is about 1400 sq, but that's including my first floor which is mainly the garage and gym. I'm looking at the TP-Link Deco M5, which advertises 1400sqft range with just 1 device. A part of me wants the mesh so that I can build off of it when I buy a larger house, but realistically that is many years away and there would probably be better mesh tech by then.
Also keep in mind the TP-Link would cost me only about $60 for 1..I know great traditional routers would probably cost like 150+, at which point I could just get a full 3 pack of these TP-Links
Where do you notice the speed with a mesh versus a high end single router?
Because we don't download a lot of heavy stuff and streaming and WiFi is fast throughout my house.
I am wondering what huge benefit I would see from the upgrade.
And what is the best mesh router under $500 these days?
Because we don't download a lot of heavy stuff and streaming and WiFi is fast throughout my house.
I am wondering what huge benefit I would see from the upgrade.
And what is the best mesh router under $500 these days?
If you have fast speeds consistently in every corner of your house I wouldn't worry about it. A mesh is for if you have deadspots in your home
I bought the Deco M5 for Christmas because I grew tired of shit wifi coverage throughout my house. The difference is stunning, but not perfect. I still say go for it.