Why Women Do the Household Worrying

[Skel1ingt0n]

Sometimes I feel like the only man in the world that cooks, cleans, shops, and handles the bills. I like thinks to be clean and in order so I stay on top of it, and keep a notebook in the kitchen to note supplies as they are running low.

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Yeah man, agreed. Obviously a gross generalization, but it blows my mind how so many women and men are surprised when they see our split of workloads. Fact is, my wife is an excellent wife and an amazing mother. She's fantastic, works a full-time job, and contributes in countless ways. But holy fuck she can't clean anything worth shit.

On the flip side, I need things to be put away and CLEAN or my mental health goes to shit. So every single week I'm subbing toilets, mopping floors, bleaching tubs, dusting under furniture, etc. I do all the cooking. I do the grocery shopping. I clean the cars. I do the handy-work (lightbulbs, paint touch up, garden stuff, clean the garage, hang pictures etc.). And I have a full-time job working 50-60 hours a week, we have two kids, and I'm primary bread winner.

My wife does all the laundry, though - because I can't f-ing stand laundry, lol.

 

[rras1994]

If you live alone, you get to do 100% of the worrying 100% of the time.

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It's less work looking after just yourself then having to look after others. There was a study that looked at patient outcomes after heart surgery. Male patients that were married had better outcomes than their single counterparts. For women, you had much better health outcomes if you were single than if you were married, and the study came to the conclusion that the married women had worse health outcomes because they ended up having to take care of their partner/families and didn't have time to recuperate, while male married patients had best outcomes of all groups because their partner was caring for them.

 

[orochi91]

I can't relate to any of the stuff in the OP.

We have a calendar/app that we use frequently to track this kind of stuff.

Things eventually get done without all this mental (over)load.

Juggling all this stuff solo in your head is a strange, and probably outdated, way to go about it.

 

[Shodan14]

It's less work looking after just yourself then having to look after others. There was a study that looked at patient outcomes after heart surgery. Male patients that were married had better outcomes than their single counterparts. For women, you had much better health outcomes if you were single than if you were married, and the study came to the conclusion that the married women had worse health outcomes because they ended up having to take care of their partner/families and didn't have time to recuperate, while male married patients had best outcomes of all groups because their partner was caring for them.

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Sure, informal care is a huge problem and disproportionately affects women. Not sure this is about the same thing though.

 

[Pet]

Are there not studies exclusively about this? The study referenced seemed to only have tangential findings related to it and was actually examining something else.

In my personal experience, this phenomena hasn't been a hard and fast rule. It hasn't applied to my own relationship and it hasn't applied to a lot of my friends relationships. It has, however, applied to a lot of the older generation's relationships I've seen.

My intuitive inclination is that this is caused by one half having a full time job and the other half not. 'Why are women carrying mental load X' is answered by 'men are carrying mental load Y'. It feels like an easy correlation to make, working full time takes mental load, and is typically the man's job. But again, this doesn't necessarily jive with my actual life experiences. Which is why I'd be interested in seeing actual studies about the subject.

The comic that got posted is amusing because it also supposes an extra dimension of STRAIGHT UP LIVING WITH SLOBS. Which I can again attest to not being a gender specific role.

Something I've also seen is the 'illusory slob'. In which one party is so pre-disposed to having to pick up after other parties that even when there's nothing to pick up some kind of neurosis occurs that results in the clean up party still needing to find things to clean up. I've seen this create real toxic no-win situations in relationships. Ie: 'I did what you asked me to do, down to the letter, and now you're mad at me for doing the thing'



I've seen this happen in real life, and it's happening because the other party has been conditioned to do NOTHING OUTSIDE OF PARAMETERS because they'll catch shit for it if they do it wrong.

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This topic is written about quite extensively, there are a lot of studies, and the conclusions are always...always...the same.

Also, overwhelmingly, men benefit more from being married than women do, in lots of ways. rras1994 brought up one example. There's also another often-quoter study that looks at life expectancies for women and men in and out of marriage.

 

[nopressure]

This is definitely a pattern in my relationship and something I want to change. It's funny, as I lived alone up to the age of 31 and looked after myself and my flat completely fine. Now, I'm only in charge of finances, cat care (feeding, cleaning, litter boxes), emptying bins, hoovering, moving things around and coffee.

For us, I think a few things contribute. My wife has anxiety and definitely prefers a degree of control on her environment. I'm a stubborn person that likes doing things in specific ways (that my wife would call wrong) and I find it hard to change. I also like doing tasks once they are necessary to do rather than anticipating them which, I guess, is the whole point of the article.

When we first moved in together this was actually more handled on my end. But over time she had problems with a lot of the ways I would do things. I didn't for example make a dinner schedule, I just had a list of meals and I would get one out in the morning. I didn't have a dedicated day set aside to pay the bills, I just sat down and did it sometime in the first week of the month. I didn't make chore lists, I just did things on my days off and sometimes before/after work. Things got done, but she wanted more structure. I tried adding more, but it didn't end up coming naturally to me and slowly over time she just took it all over. Didn't even realize it was happening until she'd taken almost all of it.

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This is the exact issue we've had. I'm happy doing lots of tasks (and did them myself well into my adulthood), but they are rarely to my wife's standards in one way or another. It makes her feel she should do them herself and she's gradually taken over household chores. I've constantly suggested making a rota or formally taking over more tasks, but she's reluctant as she doesn't like the way I do some things and feels bad for telling me I do them wrong.

We have a baby on the way and I don't want us to pass the same stereotypical gender roles. I'm gonna try to take ownership over more tasks.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

This topic is written about quite extensively, there are a lot of studies, and the conclusions are always...always...the same.

Click to shrink...

I don't doubt it, I'm just asking WHY it's happening.

Someone else brought up married men recovering from surgery the best, because their partner is caring for them. This seems like a good example to scrutinize because it tests some of this in a situation with different variables. But even in that supposition we're still not getting the answer to WHY its happening, just that it IS happening.

Also, overwhelmingly, men benefit more from being married than women do, in lots of ways. @rras1994 brought up one example. There's also another often-quoter study that looks at life expectancies for women and men in and out of marriage.

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This.... seems like a separate subject.

 

[Mullet2000]

I think that this is a tough subject because there is mental load, then there is frivolous mental (over)load.

For example, chores are split pretty 50/50 in my house with my partner. I clean, vacuum, do laundry, do dishes, do garbage, etc. She'll cook more often than I do, plan grocery lists, and does bills, among a bunch of other things on both sides. In this sense I definitely do more physical things and she does more mental.

However my partner will sit there and dwell for hours about things that need to be done after we already know what needs to be done. Like if we have a big chore coming up on the weekend, let's say we need to go to IKEA or something, she will just think about it all week, look over the list of what we need to buy over and over again, and no changes will end up being made between the first time we made the list and us going.

She will also get hung up on if one of my chores isn't done when she happens to think about it. For example the full weekly clean gets done by me by the end of Sunday, every week. Some weeks I feel like doing it Saturday morning, some weeks it's Sunday evening. But it gets done.

Sometimes she will start stressing out about the fact that it's Saturday evening and I didn't do it yet, and I end up doing it before I want to do it, to stop her from stressing out. The mental load she is creating here isn't needed or adding anything, it's just overload.

So yes the mental load thing is incredibly real and I agree that men much more often don't contribute to the mental load than women, but there needs to be some level of introspection about whether the mental load someone is creating is necessary (eg, making a grocery list and meal plan every week) or overload where a part of someone's personality is overthinking. It would not be fair to say one partner isn't contributing enough to the mental load if one partner is actually totally overthinking and doing double the mental load that they need to be doing because that's just their personality.

 

[SolmisateSol]

Yeah man, agreed. Obviously a gross generalization, but it blows my mind how so many women and men are surprised when they see our split of workloads. Fact is, my wife is an excellent wife and an amazing mother. She's fantastic, works a full-time job, and contributes in countless ways. But holy fuck she can't clean anything worth shit.

On the flip side, I need things to be put away and CLEAN or my mental health goes to shit. So every single week I'm subbing toilets, mopping floors, bleaching tubs, dusting under furniture, etc. I do all the cooking. I do the grocery shopping. I clean the cars. I do the handy-work (lightbulbs, paint touch up, garden stuff, clean the garage, hang pictures etc.). And I have a full-time job working 50-60 hours a week, we have two kids, and I'm primary bread winner.

My wife does all the laundry, though - because I can't f-ing stand laundry, lol.

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Oh my fucking god this resonated with me so much. I think me and my live-in gf split workloads evenly but there are some big fucking gaps in what cognitive tasks we give attention to.

My gf has pays no attention to food prep and food hygiene: she almost never washes vegetables before cooking them, eyeballs every measurement in the recipe, and will fill the entire dishwasher but never run it, and in general doesn't worry about what we're going to eat as much as I do.

As a result I end up cooking most meals in our household, which I don't mind for the most part, but every once in awhile I do get resentful lol.
On the other hand, I'm pretty terrible at bathroom cleanliness, I rarely ever clean the bathroom sink or toilet so... there you go.

 

[Divorced Dad]

My parents and myself (45 year old single dad) have always split the load evenly. Hell, my ex wife was overwhelmed when she had to do it on her own. Such a weird mindset to not want to split the load

 

[BringBackSonics]

Here is an example for my situation. I do the laundry, But since I work from home and have a ton of t-shirts, I just tend to do our laundry about once every two weeks. I used to tell my wife, if you are running low on something, just let me know..I don't know what is in your closet. But she will come back with..its been xyz days since you last did your laundry, why can't you just think about that

 

[BringBackSonics]

Also, my kid gave me gruff because I told them to take their laundry basket and put away their clothes. I glared at him 'I washed your shit, folded your shit, and put it in the basket'. Now I know why my mom glared at me when she washed, folded and piled my clothes when I was a kid..and I never picked them up and put them away.

I get it now as the parent.

 

[Superpupperbabysassy]

There's a lot of truth to this, but there's also an aspect about it that's literally just in their own head. Some people just work themselves into a frenzy trying to micro manage their own lives. There are times when I can tell my wife is getting like this, and I will just look at her and say "Hey... chill the fuck out" (With love, she appreciates it, it helps. I know her well enough to talk like that =p)

Sometimes people also start thinking that if they don't do it, it wont' get done, which isn't necessarily true (though absolutely true in some instances I'm sure). I'm a last minute man, and I always will be. I wait until the last minute to do it, but I will absolutely get it done, and get it done well. She's a type A planner and it drives her crazy waiting till the last minute. That's on her. I've never not gotten it done when it needs to be done, but that knowledge isn't going to change someones' personality type. She worries too much, and tries to exert too much control over "life" pretty often.

My wife does most of the foot work in regards to taking care of our son when it comes to shit like washing his clothes, signing him up for health insurance, Dr appointments, etc. But if she wasn't doing them, all of those things would get done by me with zero issue or complaint, just much closer to the deadline than she does it. I'm certain there are times when she feels like if she doesn't wash our son's clothes, it wont' get done. But on the flip side, sure those clothes have been in his hamper for a week.. but he literally has 2 more weeks worth of clean clothes to wear.. so i'm not washing shit until necessary.

She was in Florida for a few weeks to give testimony at a trial earlier this month (Montalvo murder Trial), and our son stayed in PA with me. We had zero issues while she was away and every got done =p. Side note: Both of the bastards in the Montalvo case were found guilty today.

But I'm also an incredibly independent person, and she's pretty independent herself. I have my own personal clothes hamper, I wash and put away my own clothes. I wash my own dishes when I'm finished using them. Bill wise we split the mortgage/rent, and everything else is separate more or less. We pay our own car payments, she pays the cell phone bill, I pay utilities. She buys the groceries, I pay when we go out to eat. We have our own bank accounts and in the 15 years we've been together have never been financially co-dependent on one another.

I feel like I'm rambling/off topic now, but essentially I feel a lot of the time the "Mental load" isn't nearly as large or heavy as people make it out to be. There is absolutely an aspect of them building it up to something it's not in their own head. At least in regards to my wife. She tends to agree with me, but again it's a personality trait that doesn't just go away.

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I'm glad you posted this. My wife and I split our finances in an similar fashion.

 

[Pet]

I don't doubt it, I'm just asking WHY it's happening.

Someone else brought up married men recovering from surgery the best, because their partner is caring for them. This seems like a good example to scrutinize because it tests some of this in a situation with different variables. But even in that supposition we're still not getting the answer to WHY its happening, just that it IS happening.

This.... seems like a separate subject.

Click to shrink...

Studies on why this happens? They might exist. I've always just assumed it had everything to do with traditional roles not quite dropped yet, gender socialization, etc. I haven't sought out studies as to why, particularly, though, and none come to mind right now.

The study on recovering from surgery doesn't seem like a separate subject to me. Both draw the same conclusion. For the one I brought up about lifespan, the conclusion (IIRC) was that when a man got married to a woman, his health would be better because his wife would care for him, make sure he gets healthcare, take care of his needs. But, apparently, women who married men had shorter lifespans because they had so much more work (mental and physical) and would run themselves ragged. Marriage is apparently a losing strategy for women these days, especially since women can now support themselves financially :p.

 

[Messofanego]

This is definitely a pattern in my relationship and something I want to change. It's funny, as I lived alone up to the age of 31 and looked after myself and my flat completely fine. Now, I'm only in charge of finances, cat care (feeding, cleaning, litter boxes), emptying bins, hoovering, moving things around and coffee.

For us, I think a few things contribute. My wife has anxiety and definitely prefers a degree of control on her environment. I'm a stubborn person that likes doing things in specific ways (that my wife would call wrong) and I find it hard to change. I also like doing tasks once they are necessary to do rather than anticipating them which, I guess, is the whole point of the article.



This is the exact issue we've had. I'm happy doing lots of tasks (and did them myself well into my adulthood), but they are rarely to my wife's standards in one way or another. It makes her feel she should do them herself and she's gradually taken over household chores. I've constantly suggested making a rota or formally taking over more tasks, but she's reluctant as she doesn't like the way I do some things and feels bad for telling me I do them wrong.

We have a baby on the way and I don't want us to pass the same stereotypical gender roles. I'm gonna try to take ownership over more tasks.

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My wife was like this at the start, where she got annoyed by how I did things so I asked her to teach me or explain why her method was better. Such as cooking, simple things like the way she made roti while I'm a novice and wanted to learn. I didn't want her to take on the load just because I did things differently. There were compromises and understanding, so now she trusts me more. Same like you, I'm mindful of this dynamic now that we have a newborn coming.

 

[Gpsych]

Studies on why this happens? They might exist. I've always just assumed it had everything to do with traditional roles not quite dropped yet, gender socialization, etc. I haven't sought out studies as to why, particularly, though, and none come to mind right now.

The study on recovering from surgery doesn't seem like a separate subject to me. Both draw the same conclusion. For the one I brought up about lifespan, the conclusion (IIRC) was that when a man got married to a woman, his health would be better because his wife would care for him, make sure he gets healthcare, take care of his needs. But, apparently, women who married men had shorter lifespans because they had so much more work (mental and physical) and would run themselves ragged. Marriage is apparently a losing strategy for women these days, especially since women can now support themselves financially :p.

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I might not be thinking of the same study, but as I recall, the study that came to this conclusion did not control for the presence of children. Thus it is somewhat of a logical leap to blame the marriage aspect as it might be the result of having to care for children (balanced or not) as opposed to taking care of the husband. I'm not saying that marriage isn't the issue, but the study I read had some difficulties with correlation = causation. I can see if I can track it down, but it was a few years ago. That being said, I am fairly certain that there are a huge number of women that essentially have to care for their man-children husbands and society sees little to no problem with this which is a significant problem.

 

[Pet]

I might not be thinking of the same study, but as I recall, the study that came to this conclusion did not control for the presence of children. Thus it is somewhat of a logical leap to blame the marriage aspect as it might be the result of having to care for children (balanced or not) as opposed to taking care of the husband. I'm not saying that marriage isn't the issue, but the study I read had some difficulties with correlation = causation. I can see if I can track it down, but it was a few years ago. That being said, I am fairly certain that there are a huge number of women that essentially have to care for their man-children husbands and society sees little to no problem with this which is a significant problem.

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Yeah, I mean it's one study and it's probably not perfect.

That being said, when multiple studies that explore this topic all seem to end up leaning the same way, finding similar things, over and over...

 

[Dr. Monkey]

A lot of what's in the OP feels rough in a relationship. On the other side of what's described is the other partner often wishing they would just chill out. The solution should not be both partners preemptively stressing about every little thing. Even the example in the OP is ridiculous. If one partner is stressing over summer camp in January that seems pretty excessive.

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Yeah, it's not excessive. Because camps fill up. I don't know about summer camp for leisure/learning - never had the funds to send my kids to anything. But summer childcare programs often fill up very early. If you're waiting until summer, you get what you get or maybe nothing at all. You HAVE to start worrying about things like that early. Like... in January.

There's a lot of people in this thread who are just handwaving "excessive worrying" without a) understanding why people plan (hmm wonder why) and/or b) not thinking about what could possible cause the women in their lives to have more anxiety and concern.

It ain't genetic. It ain't built in. So golly, where could it come from?

 

[BasilZero]

My wife does all the household cooking and cleaning since she's home more often than I am (she works three days while I work five days)

On her off days she does the cooking and cleaning - and goes shopping with my mom.

My mother helps with the maintaining the home too since she's always at home (father is bedridden due to a medical issue)

I mainly take care of all planning and finances , the IT person for our security/internet/electronics/appliances, drive to work (we work close to each other) and take care of medical needs for everyone (taking everyone to the doctor especially the parents)

I am terrible at cooking in all aspects to the point neither my wife or mother wants me to go near the kitchen 😂

 

[Cantaim]

Not married but as someone with ADHD I've had a many an interesting conversation with my girlfriend about this.

 

[nekkid]

I've basically been a stay at home father, who happens to have a full time job working from home, for the last year while my wife does longer hours as a nurse. This includes home schooling (when schools were closed), school drop off and collection (when they've been open), clothes washing, washing up, cleaning, cooking dinner for the family etc. So from my perspective this isn't true (although I appreciate the problem at large).

It's been fun having childless people on Era insinuate I'm a lazy parent for being keen for schools to open over this past year.

 

[Casualcore]

Yeah, most UK people have their washing machine in the kitchen but Americans tend to have it in its own room.

Question then though is, why did someone go food shopping and then not put it away when they came back?

It's the first thing I do when I come back from the shops.

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A lot of Americans have the washer and dryer in the garage, and some grocery bags may have ended up on one as a temporary landing zone when unloading the car, and then got forgotten on the journey. After all, the bag of veg is very unlikely to have milk or frozen stuff in it, so it's not high on the, "must attend now" brain. You walk in and there's immediate demands for what in those bags is for lunch, or have to get the pack of chicken divided and in the freezer, this, that, this, that. It's easy to forget something that you know can wait an hour, but gets bumped out of the mind entirely over the course of that hour by everything else.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

Studies on why this happens? They might exist. I've always just assumed it had everything to do with traditional roles not quite dropped yet, gender socialization, etc. I haven't sought out studies as to why, particularly, though, and none come to mind right now.

The study on recovering from surgery doesn't seem like a separate subject to me. Both draw the same conclusion. For the one I brought up about lifespan, the conclusion (IIRC) was that when a man got married to a woman, his health would be better because his wife would care for him, make sure he gets healthcare, take care of his needs. But, apparently, women who married men had shorter lifespans because they had so much more work (mental and physical) and would run themselves ragged. Marriage is apparently a losing strategy for women these days, especially since women can now support themselves financially :p.

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Ya, I was referring to the 'general life expectancy' subject, which is a wholly different subject for a number of factors. Saying 'married women have a shorter life span' makes intuitive sense and it's not something I doubt, but drawing causal relationships between the 'mental load' subject and the caretaker/caretakee lifespan is not something we can do. Are we, for instance, sure that it is not in fact child bearing that is causing the lifespan difference? Or (unfortunately) spousal abuse that is causing it? Lifespan issues are also coupled with long established factors, like woman living longer than men *in general*. Is the lifespan change because general risk levels are evened out by having a partner?

This, again, all seems like a separate subject. Tangentially connected, but separate.

The reason I ask WHY the mental load issue is happening is because we can't just assume that its a societal issue. I'm going to make the assumption that this is a behavior that is showing up across cultures. When that's happening, it becomes less likely that its a societal level issue, and more likely that there's another factor. For example, it could be that the sexes are just hard wired to be in these roles. Or there could be some kind of 'slob gene' that naturally expresses itself in a certain percent of people. Or it could be that there's mental load here that isn't being factored in on the opposite side of the issue.

All seem like possible explanations. This thread itself is also clearly not in agreement on how some of these things play out, which is anecdotal, but should be telling.

 

[onyx]

When I was growing up I noticed something in relationships that I've also seen happen in mine. When the man does the work the woman isn't happy unless it's done the way she likes. Dishes have to be washed a certain way, laundry has to be done in a certain way, the rooms have to cleaned in a certain order, and the bills have to be handled in a certain way. It always got to the point where the woman just ended up taking over the tasks herself.

In my relationship we divided up the cleaning and one of my areas was the kitchen. My wife couldn't stop complaining about the order I cleaned the space. Didn't matter that I kept the kitchen cleaner than she kept her areas. I get the laundry done faster but she doesn't like how I fold the clothes. She took over the folding but it takes her much longer, like days to get it all put away. I got it all done in one day. I paid all the bills on time but she likes to over pay so there is a credit on the accounts. I'd rather save that extra money or use to pay down and debts we have.

I tell her over and over again to lay any burden she wants on me but let me do it my way just like I let her do it her way. She has with some things and some I refused to let her take over even though she still tries.

 

[Joe White]

We have found few useful tools/methods that us to reduce mental load overall in our household:
1. Google Calendar, for events, happenings, goings, etc.
2. Microsoft To Do, for tasks and schedules
3. YNAB for budgeting
4. Biweekly grocery deliveries, it's easy to add things to next delivery
5. Hired a housekeeper, to do housekeeping activities one day per week
6. I walk the dog, cook, clean, handle other household worries and pay most of the bills

 

[Hogger]

Wow. Lot of people in this thread making a mountain out of a mole hill when it comes to household responsibilities. If you have young kids, all my sympathies to you for juggling what you do. If not, it's easy peasy. Household chores, groceries, finances, pet responsibilities should all flow like the Nile. If not, you need to simplify your life or get it together.

 

[Deleted member 6263]

There's a great comic about this.

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That was great, thanks for posting.

 

[Deleted member 17092]

Wow. Lot of people in this thread making a mountain out of a mole hill when it comes to household responsibilities. If you have young kids, all my sympathies to you for juggling what you do. If not, it's easy peasy. Household chores, groceries, finances, pet responsibilities should all flow like the Nile. If not, you need to simplify your life or get it together.

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Yeah kids definitely complicate things. My wife and I as total DINKs I actually do most of the household stuff because I'm wfh and she's not.

I've never really considered basic household maintenance as a source of worry. That comic in this thread definitely applies to me lol, but I don't really consider it a source of "worry."

Just kind of part of life and without a wife I'd still have to take care of all that stuff.

Kids obviously are going to drastically multiply the amount of stuff/mess, laundry, dishes, etc though.

 

[Pet]

Ya, I was referring to the 'general life expectancy' subject, which is a wholly different subject for a number of factors. Saying 'married women have a shorter life span' makes intuitive sense and it's not something I doubt, but drawing causal relationships between the 'mental load' subject and the caretaker/caretakee lifespan is not something we can do. Are we, for instance, sure that it is not in fact child bearing that is causing the lifespan difference? Or (unfortunately) spousal abuse that is causing it? Lifespan issues are also coupled with long established factors, like woman living longer than men *in general*. Is the lifespan change because general risk levels are evened out by having a partner?

This, again, all seems like a separate subject. Tangentially connected, but separate.

The reason I ask WHY the mental load issue is happening is because we can't just assume that its a societal issue. I'm going to make the assumption that this is a behavior that is showing up across cultures. When that's happening, it becomes less likely that its a societal level issue, and more likely that there's another factor. For example, it could be that the sexes are just hard wired to be in these roles. Or there could be some kind of 'slob gene' that naturally expresses itself in a certain percent of people. Or it could be that there's mental load here that isn't being factored in on the opposite side of the issue.

All seem like possible explanations. This thread itself is also clearly not in agreement on how some of these things play out, which is anecdotal, but should be telling.

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I suppose we'll just have to agree that we have different takes/views on this topic!

 

[MrKlaw]

We have found few useful tools/methods that us to reduce mental load overall in our household:
1. Google Calendar, for events, happenings, goings, etc.
2. Microsoft To Do, for tasks and schedules
3. YNAB for budgeting
4. Biweekly grocery deliveries, it's easy to add things to next delivery
5. Hired a housekeeper, to do housekeeping activities one day per week
6. I walk the dog, cook, clean, handle other household worries and pay most of the bills

Click to shrink...

financially the best thing for reducing the load for us is just putting things in pots - how much you need for food and shit? roughly X ok cool put it aside. Bit more or less you have some buffer. Monthly bills are all automatically taken, no worries. Yearly stuff that sneaks up on you, tally up, divide by 12 and put that amount into a 'surprise its car insurance time!' pot.

Now we only do financials maybe yearly, and a quick check quarterly or whenever there is a change in circumstance

 

[Joe White]

financially the best thing for reducing the load for us is just putting things in pots - how much you need for food and shit? roughly X ok cool put it aside. Bit more or less you have some buffer. Monthly bills are all automatically taken, no worries. Yearly stuff that sneaks up on you, tally up, divide by 12 and put that amount into a 'surprise its car insurance time!' pot.

Now we only do financials maybe yearly, and a quick check quarterly or whenever there is a change in circumstance

Click to shrink...

Yep. It's good to have a purpose for your money, and upcoming costs estimated, categorized and budgeted from different pots. And we know that most of the financial experts are calling us fools for having few months pay worth of buffer (instead of investments), but that buffer just removes so much mental load from typical financial worries.

 

[Handicapped Duck]

I'm guilty of this, I'll look at the fridge and think it's fine, meanwhile our mom for example, will open it up and notice we are out of certain fruits, condiments, spoiled food, etc. and will get on us about trying to notice stuff more. While I already knew that women in general have to take on more of the cognitive labor, this at least makes me more aware of how frequent such an issue is, and will get me to be a lot more helpful around the house outside of just doing the chores.

 

[TSM]

Yeah, it's not excessive. Because camps fill up. I don't know about summer camp for leisure/learning - never had the funds to send my kids to anything. But summer childcare programs often fill up very early. If you're waiting until summer, you get what you get or maybe nothing at all. You HAVE to start worrying about things like that early. Like... in January.

There's a lot of people in this thread who are just handwaving "excessive worrying" without a) understanding why people plan (hmm wonder why) and/or b) not thinking about what could possible cause the women in their lives to have more anxiety and concern.

It ain't genetic. It ain't built in. So golly, where could it come from?

Click to shrink...

There are two people in a relationship, and the perspective that you are presenting is that the partner that stresses about every last little thing should be catered to rather than both partners looking to find a happy medium. Completely conceding to the partner that stresses the most in a relationship isn't healthy in my experience.

Like the summer camp example. Are the signups in February? If not they should find out when camp signups are and start putting some serious mental effort into it a few weeks out. Stressing about it in months before signups isn't productive and is adding stress to the relationship that isn't beneficial to either partner. A good compromise would be both partners looking at relevant information for half an hour to an hour every couple weeks leading into the two weeks before signups as prep work.

 

[John Rabbit]

I can't relate. We don't have kids but my wife and I communicate openly about things of this nature. We understand the load will never be split evenly all of the time, but that it's also not the point. If anything I probably worry about more than she does.

 

[DarthSpider]

There's a lot of people in this thread who are just handwaving "excessive worrying" without a) understanding why people plan (hmm wonder why) and/or b) not thinking about what could possible cause the women in their lives to have more anxiety and concern.

Click to shrink...

I have no doubt in my mind that everything in the OP is true and accurate in general. However, there are quite a few people in this thread handwaving excessive worrying who are the ones doing the mental heavy lifting in their relationships, myself included. There is a line. There is a point where it becomes excessive and damaging, and that blame should not be placed on the one who isn't freaking out.

 

[TSM]

I have no doubt in my mind that everything in the OP is true and accurate in general. However, there are quite a few people in this thread handwaving excessive worrying who are the ones doing the mental heavy lifting in their relationships, myself included. There is a line. There is a point where it becomes excessive and damaging, and that blame should not be placed on the one who isn't freaking out.

Click to shrink...

Going even further the story in the OP is acting like living stressed out in such a manner is totally acceptable, and everyone else should strive to also live that way so as to minimize the stress of the original party. The assumption seems to be that the "mental load" should be shared rather than asking if it's necessary for the mental load to exist in the first place.

And part of that is: I will be judged as a bad mother. I think notions of good fatherhood are changing. We expect men to help with changing diapers and to do a lot of the physical care work. And yet, we don't see them as ultimately responsible for the child's development and happiness in the same way.

Click to shrink...

This right here seems to be a primary source of the stress, and this is not a mental load anyone should live under. Never mind expecting their partner to also share this mental load.

 

[Deleted member 41520]

Something I've thought for a long time - and which Waller-Bridge wrote about in Fleabag season 2 - is that women naturally assume a "mental load" from a young age when their period first starts. That experience of pain and the realization that you need highly organized self-management on a monthly basis for the rest of your life (or face "embarassing" consequences) creates a huge psychological load - and a vast disparity between men and women as men never experience this. Nothing in life forces men to confront managing something very serious regularly (outside of personal circumstances). There's a lot less forcing a man to forward-think and forward-plan until they leave school or home and reach some kind of adulthood. (This isn't the sole reason/factor, obviously, but in my humble opinion this disparity has a significant impact across our whole lives.)

This totally extends to household work and daily life, in my experience - in that men simply are less likely to have thought patterns like "I must organize X one week in advance otherwise Y unpleasant thing will happen".

It's something which absolutely needs to be redressed and needs a lot of work to offset. Education and responsibility-bearing for men from a younger age is a requirement here.

 

[ShyMel]

While the arrival of my niece and them moving from an apartment to a house did result in my brother in law stepping up more in regards to certain tasks, the chore difference between him and my sister is still noticeable. And even though I am not planning on having kids, it has made me think about how I want to even things out chore wise if I move in with my long term boyfriend.

 

[Transistor]

I'd be lying if I said that my wife and I didn't fall into the stereotypes (with the exception of cooking, which I love). She did the laundry and the house work while I did the home improvement and yard work. However, since getting a work from home job, I've really tried to step up and do as much of all of it as I can. I'll take 5 minutes to move the laundry along, handle the dishes, run the vacuum, etc. She works a hard job and I work a job that I love, so if I can make her life easier, I'd happily do it.

 

[sandyph]

Sometimes I feel like the only man in the world that cooks, cleans, shops, and handles the bills. I like thinks to be clean and in order so I stay on top of it, and keep a notebook in the kitchen to note supplies as they are running low.

Click to shrink...

I don't cooks or cleans, but I do do all household shopping and handle the bills. Most of it because it's a single income household but also because I used to stay alone overseas for years. So those things just comes naturally :D

 

[Spinluck]

Wow. Lot of people in this thread making a mountain out of a mole hill when it comes to household responsibilities. If you have young kids, all my sympathies to you for juggling what you do. If not, it's easy peasy. Household chores, groceries, finances, pet responsibilities should all flow like the Nile. If not, you need to simplify your life or get it together.

Click to shrink...

I'd imagine kids are the big complication.

The whole reason i live alone is because most roommates are gross for some reason. I needed to know my own baseline. And i got tired of cleaning other people's shit.

 

[MatchaMouse]

This has been an issue in any relationship where I've lived with the person. It's gotten to the point where guys saying "I'd be happy to do x if you'd just ask!" really upsets me haha. You can also figure out what needs to be done and then do it...

Making internal lists of all the things that need to be taken care of at all times is exhausting. It's especially a thorn in my side when the same men excel at their careers and seemingly have no issues taking care of the mental load in that area. It demonstrates that they do have this ability, but when it comes to our domestic life, they just don't care.

 

[Lobster Roll]

If I ever let the household worrying fall solely on my SO, I'd be embarrassed of myself.

 

[Kill3r7]

If I ever let the household worrying fall solely on my SO, I'd be embarrassed of myself.

Click to shrink...

One would have to cognizant of the behavior before they can be embarrassed by it. Plenty of people never get to that point. A large portion of the population is completely unaware, culturally ambivalent towards household chores or simply just throw money at it to ease the burden.

 

[Lobster Roll]

One would have to cognizant of the behavior before they can be embarrassed by it. Plenty of people never get to that point. A large portion of the population is completely unaware, culturally ambivalent towards household chores or simply just throw money at it to ease the burden.

Click to shrink...

Well said, that's a good point. I guess I take for granted the responsibilities that I'm aware I should be meeting.

 

[Wackamole]

As someone who is guilty of this and is struggling to improve to make life easier for my wife and kids, I suspect it comes down to your upbringing. Growing up, my mom always took care of the house and my brother and I were responsible for our room. So in college and afterwards that mindset was rarely challenged or proved problematic but looking back on it was because I was surrounded by like minded people. At work I am always on but usually turn my mind off when I am home and function mostly on autopilot. That is part of the problem as my autopilot mode is not cognizant of these things.

Click to shrink...

Absolutely. Mothers and fathers need to make their sons and daughters partake in household chores. At some point they'll also have to be able to live independently.

I don't know if that's that uncommon honestly. I do all of that stuff, and all my guy friends in a relationship do that stuff as well. My fiance does more cooking since she loves to cook, but I still do it a couple nights a week. My fiance does a lot more with bills though, since she owns the house (I met her after she bought it, I have never owned a property so I don't know all about how it works).

I'm not sure if my friend group is a bubble or if this is a stereotype that was once true but no longer is quite as much. Since these days it's more common for both partners to work full time job I'm guessing that leads towards lessening the typical gender roles of the past.

Click to shrink...

Same here. Maybe it depends where you live. All my friends do the same. Both my sister and i were taught how to work with a washing machine, a vacuum cleaner, how to cook, how to clean, how to fix stuff with a drill, hammer and nails, and how to paint a house. We were raised to be free, helpful and independent.
Doesn't mean we live alone, just that we could make it alone when needed.

That comic that everybody quotes is also relatable to a lot of men. It's a shame people see it as a gender thing. doesn't have to be at all.

 

[RadzPrower]

There's a great comic about this.

Click to shrink...

That comic applies to me...as a man.

Nobody else ever does anything to pick up around the house. They step over clothes, towels, and toys in the floor. Everything lying around the house at a given moment belongs to everyone BUT me. I've got my one corner of my bedroom that's somewhat messy, but it's largely because my hobbies all involve large amounts of cables which are a nightmare to manage.

I have no choice but to do my own laundry as well as the socks because they'd never get done otherwise. My wife cannot even use her own sink because she cannot keep it clean and empty of her junk for more than a week at a time. Her clothes lay around our room at all times (if I'm lucky and they STAY in our room). We agreed that I would empty the dishwasher and she would fill it...that never happens so the dishes stay stacked in the sink.

The kids don't give 2 shits about anything in the house including the house itself. Our house is like a year and a half old now, but the walls look terrible where they've been scuffed, drawn on, and even painted in a couple of places. To be fair, it was cheap contractor paint and we've had previous experience at how bad it is, so we're slowly painting the whole house, but still.

Now, I might expect some responses from a certain subset of people going "Yeah, but what does she do that you're not telling us?" or "I'm sure she's doing more than you are.". To that I say...she's doing essentially nothing most days. She does not work as she voluntarily decided to stay at home with our three kids. She does cook on the regular, but I also help many nights if not cooking outright or going to pick something up because she just doesn't want to cook. She also drives the kids to and from school, but a lot of her day she spends on the couch on her phone on Snapchat. She does laundry for herself like once a month and might get on the kids to do their laundry every couple of weeks (the oldest is nine while the other two are 5 and under). Bathrooms are never cleaned, towels are rarely washed, bed sheets are never changed, carpet almost never vacuumed, the table and counters stay cluttered with junk, toys in the yard, a garage full of the junk she's constantly getting for the kids...

...and she does not even provide any to the financials for how little she actually does around the house. If she worked and didn't help around the house, it'd be one thing, but at this point, she's a freeloader.

 

[Dr. Monkey]

Now, I might expect some responses from a certain subset of people going "Yeah, but what does she do that you're not telling us?" or "I'm sure she's doing more than you are.". To that I say...she's doing essentially nothing most days. She does not work as she voluntarily decided to stay at home with our three kids. She does cook on the regular, but I also help many nights if not cooking outright or going to pick something up because she just doesn't want to cook. She also drives the kids to and from school, but a lot of her day she spends on the couch on her phone on Snapchat. She does laundry for herself like once a month and might get on the kids to do their laundry every couple of weeks (the oldest is nine while the other two are 5 and under). Bathrooms are never cleaned, towels are rarely washed, bed sheets are never changed, carpet almost never vacuumed, the table and counters stay cluttered with junk, toys in the yard, a garage full of the junk she's constantly getting for the kids...

Click to shrink...

This is an incomparable outlier and what's going on with y'all is not typical. I'm not trying to diagnose anyone but it sounds like y'all have different issues than what's being discussed in the thread.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I wonder if any research has been done correlating the type of work the offending partner does with this behavior.

I know a lot of people at work who are like this. They want to be told exactly what to do, and then go do it. Usually they'll do a perfectly fine job, but they will only ever do precisely what they're told. You can have a modestly successful career this way, and I bet they take that attitude back home with them.

 

[Skel1ingt0n]

That comic applies to me...as a man.

Nobody else ever does anything to pick up around the house. They step over clothes, towels, and toys in the floor. Everything lying around the house at a given moment belongs to everyone BUT me. I've got my one corner of my bedroom that's somewhat messy, but it's largely because my hobbies all involve large amounts of cables which are a nightmare to manage.

I have no choice but to do my own laundry as well as the socks because they'd never get done otherwise. My wife cannot even use her own sink because she cannot keep it clean and empty of her junk for more than a week at a time. Her clothes lay around our room at all times (if I'm lucky and they STAY in our room). We agreed that I would empty the dishwasher and she would fill it...that never happens so the dishes stay stacked in the sink.

The kids don't give 2 shits about anything in the house including the house itself. Our house is like a year and a half old now, but the walls look terrible where they've been scuffed, drawn on, and even painted in a couple of places. To be fair, it was cheap contractor paint and we've had previous experience at how bad it is, so we're slowly painting the whole house, but still.

Now, I might expect some responses from a certain subset of people going "Yeah, but what does she do that you're not telling us?" or "I'm sure she's doing more than you are.". To that I say...she's doing essentially nothing most days. She does not work as she voluntarily decided to stay at home with our three kids. She does cook on the regular, but I also help many nights if not cooking outright or going to pick something up because she just doesn't want to cook. She also drives the kids to and from school, but a lot of her day she spends on the couch on her phone on Snapchat. She does laundry for herself like once a month and might get on the kids to do their laundry every couple of weeks (the oldest is nine while the other two are 5 and under). Bathrooms are never cleaned, towels are rarely washed, bed sheets are never changed, carpet almost never vacuumed, the table and counters stay cluttered with junk, toys in the yard, a garage full of the junk she's constantly getting for the kids...

...and she does not even provide any to the financials for how little she actually does around the house. If she worked and didn't help around the house, it'd be one thing, but at this point, she's a freeloader.

Click to shrink...

With all due respect - sincerely - seems you have much bigger issues going on at your house. I'd encourage you to look into marriage counseling.